It's official: VE Commodore Coming to America

[Cyclone Chris]

Looks like Lutz approved it.

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.as px?ArticleID=20396&vf=12

[Red Alert]

Sweet, I like that car too. THe article said that the platform could be built here in the states on a stretched version to accommodate the aging GM fleet.

Humm, Caprice maybe? To compete with the 300/Chargers I wonder. Or a Cadillac DTS/Seville. The possibilities are endless.

[PMD GTO]

Sweeeeet.

[GTO=VERY_BIG_SEG!!!]

From http://www.smh.com.au/news/news/commodore-begins-global-tour/2006/09/29/1159337322009.html

A Pontiac-badged Commodore will be unveiled at the Chicago motor show in 2007, signalling the start of the Commodore’s global tour.

Speaking at this week's Paris motor show, General Motors product guru Bob Lutz did more than hint that the Commodore would wear a Pontiac nose and badges before long.

[LordGriNz]

Hopefully just in time for my lease on the Jeep to end....

[RobertHammen]

Sweet, I like that car too. THe article said that the platform could be built here in the states on a stretched version to accommodate the aging GM fleet.

Humm, Caprice maybe? To compete with the 300/Chargers I wonder. Or a Cadillac DTS/Seville. The possibilities are endless.

The current VE can't be built directly in the States (Zeta will be a GMNA-assembly friendly version of VE). The timeframe is way too early for any North American plant to be ready to produce them. My guess is, if Pontiac's getting a VE in 2007, it has to be an imported Holden. It won't be a "Grand Prix" as the Oshawa, Ontario, Canada plant has name exclusivity on "Grand Prix".

Chevy will get an Impala (or maybe another old Chevy name) sedan to compete against the 300C. Buick will get a longer version (think Holden Caprice/Statesman) to become a new Roadmaster (replacing the Lucerne?). Dunno if Caddy is still getting a RWD Zeta vehicle, or if the DTS replacement will be Sigma2-based (next CTS/STS/et. al.). There are lots of possibilities for Zeta, thankfully... it's a very flexible platform.

[6.0-GTO]

Looks like a Mazda 6

[Cyclone Chris]

I doubt they'll be out on the lots in 2007... more like June-Aug 2008

[audioimagez]

I'm guessing it will be the new Grand Prix/G8

[nixapatfan]

Sweet now I won't have to worry about the ugly retro GTO rendering in this months Road and Track. There will be a very nice modern looking car for me to drive a few years down the road. :gears: Thank You GM for listening.

[RobertHammen]

I doubt they'll be out on the lots in 2007... more like June-Aug 2008

Denny Mooney, Holden chairman, has made comments about being able to export 20k vehicles a year after production started... which was in July of this year. Remember, it was always planned that these vehicles would be built/sold in North America, just that got axed in early 2005 when the original "Zeta" plans were shelved. They already build LHD vehicles for GM Middle East... all they have to do is graft on the Pontiac nose clip/badges, and do some crash tests ($20 million)... and they can start importing them mid-to-late 2007. Pontiac dealers desperately need product (the Grand Prix will die after the 2008 model year... the GTO is gone, the Vibe dies after MY2007 unless there is a redesign coming)...

[Phantom05]

:ftw: :ftw:

[1fstmach]

:ftw:

I like it

and concepts are just that concepts


It will be changed a lot for production always happens

[Jake99SS]

New Bonneville? Or is it not big enough?

[littlemissGTO]

Looks like another Pontiac other than a GTO might be in my future.

[McCarron]

I am so there!

[OrangeCrushM6]

Looks like a Mazda 6. :stickpoke

[RobertHammen]

I'm guessing it will be the new Grand Prix/G8

Can't be Grand Prix unless it's built at Oshawa, Ontario, Canada... they have name exclusivity on that car. Oshawa won't start building RWD Zeta vehicles until late 2008, so, if this is gonna be here in 2007, it's gonna be imported...

It will be changed a lot for production always happens

Not if it's coming here that quickly... since it's based on an existing car (Commodore), little that can be done before import.

[OrangeCrushM6]

Hopefully just in time for my lease on the Jeep to end....

Wow, that bad huh? ;)

[bnvus]

Uh oh. Might have finally found a replacement for my SS. We'll see, I still love the car.

[LordGriNz]

Wow, that bad huh? ;)

Nope, I actually love this jeep....if the lease deal is just as good on a new one
come the end of 2008, well it will be a tough choice.

As far as Oshawa having exclusivity on the name Grand Prix? Just call it a G8
and tell Oshawa to go blow....

[GTPprix]

This has been in the cards for YEARS on/off as the G8...

[PMD GTO]

It will be changed a lot for production always happens

Well, that didn't happen with the GTO......

[TriShield]

This just shot up to the top of my list for my next new car.

Provided GM doesn't mess with the styling or interior features this time. Please for the love of Holden just rebadge it and add more than 400hp this time.

[nixapatfan]

Man I hate some of those stupid GTO haters. Go look at the comments on GMI. Some of those dirtbags are already bagging on the Commodore because it's going to be a rebadged Holden like the GTO. I hope the GP/G8 does better than the GTO did so GM doesn't get scared off by these dumbasses that never buy anything and bitch about everything.

[TriShield]

Man I hate some of those stupid GTO haters. Go look at the comments on GMI. Some of those dirtbags are already bagging on the Commodore because it's going to be a rebadged Holden like the GTO.

If GM doesn't saddle this car with a legendary name it wasn't meant to wear I don't think it will have any issues. And don't take the comments on GMI seriously. Every time I read a discussion there I can feel my IQ drop.

[highperf]

Yawn

[itsme4g63]

I want mine with a v6,twin turbos, gm better make it, or else.

[MuhThugga]

Awesome.
I shall own another Pontiac in the future to retire the GTO to secondary toy.
As I have said before, as long as GM keeps bringing over at least one Holden, I'll be a customer.

[lastc4]

We can only hope that Pontiac doesn't compromise the styling too badly.

If they do, I'll keep my fingers crossed that the Commodore front/rear will still fit. Then we can buy the parts from JHP or Hunter Holden and fix them ourselves....

[Mad_Dan_Eccles]

Looks like a Mazda 6. :stickpoke


Is that a problem? The only reason I don't have my Mazda6 any longer is that I traded it for the Goat. The 6 is still far and away one the best designed Japanese mass market cars out there

The bigger question is what to trade for the Commodore??? The GTO is staying.

[Spud]

Just don't put the poxy Pontiac front end on it. Leave it as is.

[Fastmofo]

Marketing is key, let's hope Pontiac learned from the 04 GTO debacle... But then I got mine for 27k, so should I complain?

[1fstmach]

We can only hope that Pontiac doesn't compromise the styling too badly.

If they do, I'll keep my fingers crossed that the Commodore front/rear will still fit. Then we can buy the parts from JHP or Hunter Holden and fix them ourselves....


good thinking

[LCLpuddle]

4-door GTO? Sign me up. <3

[dezinerGTO]

I'm saving my money.

[redscare]

Depending on when they start selling these, I might just have to reconsider a GTO

[RobertHammen]

And don't take the comments on GMI seriously. Every time I read a discussion there I can feel my IQ drop.

A huge +1.... that place is nothing but a bunch of adolescent fanboys... with an occasional industry insider (makes one wonder why they stick around there)...

[TriShield]

I wonder if they will import the SV6 model as well? What about the HSV as a GXP model? This could be interesting.

[RobertHammen]

20k a year imported, I think we're gonna get SS-V's and maybe a few HSV's if we're lucky...

The Detroit Free Press seems to think we're going to see these cars built in the U.S.... where? What plant? When? Not for a couple of years at least, I am guessing...

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20 060929/BUSINESS01/609290386/1014/BUSINESS01

[TriShield]

I wouldn't mind buying an SS-V with an LS2, HSV GTS wheels, brakes and body parts if they offered such a thing.

[Desertraptor]

They couldnt spend a billion bucks on a vehicle and not be for export to the US. I'm glad you guys will get to buy her.

[mike5215@bellsouth.n]

One huge step closer to a new Holden-built GTO. All a GTO needs to be is a high-contented, high powered coupe version of a more sedate Pontiac sedan. That's the GTO's heritage. Forget all the "retro" stuff. Take whatever the Pontiac version of the SS looks like, give it two doors, a big performance edge and more aggressive styling and bingo, there's your next Goat.

[sccaGTO]

They couldnt spend a billion bucks on a vehicle and not be for export to the US. I'm glad you guys will get to buy her.
So, when are you getting one? :bootyshak


And, CHRIS WHITE, stop holding out information. If there is a small, realistic chance that we might see an HSV for sale, I NEED to know about it.

[whiteboyslo]

nice! woulda bought it over the GTO if it came over sooner. i like 4-doors (crazy, i know).

time to whip that GM card out again

Mike

[BLACKJACK96]

I like it too..I would love to have that as a DD and the goat for fun.

Do these come in 4WD?

[TriShield]

Maybe we should start writing Pontiac with feedback on this car already, like wish lists.

I'd like them to replace those two 1980s looking displays above the vents with a traditional gauge pod like the HSV GTS has.

[Desertraptor]

AS soon as I have the Monaro paid off I'll get me an SSV

[BanditWS6]

Totally awesome, now if I can just convince my wife that she doesn't really need the SUV she's been talking about, this could be her next car. (For those who brought up the Mazda6, she has a 6 now, and the Commodore looks even better IMHO...)

[sccaGTO]

Totally awesome, now if I can just convince my wife that she doesn't really need the SUV she's been talking about, this could be her next car. (For those who brought up the Mazda6, she has a 6 now, and the Commodore looks even better IMHO...)
That should be an easy arguement. Remind her that for the same (but hopefully less) money, she would have a car with the big thirsty V8, get a few MPG better economy, & be easier to park. If she asks for one good reason why to get a "Commodore", you just got 3.

[DFWGTOr]

Hopefully it gets here in October '07 (please, please, please!!) as that's when my SmartBuy on my GTO is up. I love this car, but I'm hoping that about that time next year maybe we'll need 4 doors. :turbonaug

I've tried looking it up, but I guess the rear seats don't fold down? Anyone know the dimensions of the trunk?.... I saw the fuel tank is supposed to have been moved for us Yanks :-patriot: ... but I want to make sure I can fit more than 2 sets of golf clubs. :barf:

[dredz172]

cuz its a holden it should share a pretty decent interior

[TriShield]

Some in person, non-studio photos of the car.

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5428 457.jpg

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5429 455.jpg

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5106 336.jpg

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5401 721.jpg

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5401 717.jpg

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5401 723.jpg

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5401 719.jpg

I love it. The reaction internet-wide to it is very positive as well. Even on very anti-GM places like AutoBlog. :cool:

[Cyclone Chris]

Love the look. Not feeling that huge E-Brake. LOL

[nutiger]

That car looks sharp! All they need to do is add a vertical bar to the grille and leave the rest alone!

[sccaGTO]

Forget how many doors it has. It will be mine. Oh yes, it will be mine.

[TriShield]

They might as well import this too.

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds .com//media/il/news/2006/0823/hsv.eseries.gts.2.50 0.jpg

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds .com//media/il/news/2006/0823/hsv.eseries.gts.1.50 0.jpg

Call it the G8 GXP, give it more power, price a bit under the next CTS-V and directly at the Chrysler SRT-8 triplets.

[TA455]

Please Lord, let them offer a white one with red interior. :hail: Then color my Goat gone. :boink:

[GTO=VERY_BIG_SEG!!!]

One huge step closer to a new Holden-built GTO. All a GTO needs to be is a high-contented, high powered coupe version of a more sedate Pontiac sedan. That's the GTO's heritage. Forget all the "retro" stuff. Take whatever the Pontiac version of the SS looks like, give it two doors, a big performance edge and more aggressive styling and bingo, there's your next Goat.


Your logic is impeccable! Very well stated, sir.

[MuhThugga]

I can't wait for this to come over here.
Hopefully they will model the GTO after this. It will be fantastic if they did, because then Pontiac will keep the American BMW look they are going for.
Forget what the fanboys say. GM should listen to those who have bought the GTO already. We actually show that we put our money where our mouth is.

[redscare]

The only thing that worries me is that they won't offer it with the 6-speed

[traumadog]

The only thing that worries me is that they won't offer it with the 6-speed
Why wouldn't they? The Commodore already uses a manual w/ their models - and as the GTO's engine/tranny has already been EPA certified, I'd hate to think that with this similar combo, updating that would be too bad.

Otherwise, if it is automatic-only, I'd hope they'd at least put the 6L80E in there.

[Juniorss]

That White one looks amazing :thumbs:

[itsme4g63]

They might as well import this too.

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds .com//media/il/news/2006/0823/hsv.eseries.gts.2.50 0.jpg

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds .com//media/il/news/2006/0823/hsv.eseries.gts.1.50 0.jpg

Call it the G8 GXP, give it more power, price a bit under the next CTS-V and directly at the Chrysler SRT-8 triplets.


we're probably going to get the barebones package l**** before, low grade model with hsv motor. I seriously doubt they wont give us a ls2 motored one.

[jonlee]

i can't wait! "i just want one". puhaha

[tmoneyr007]

Some in person, non-studio photos of the car.

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5428 457.jpg

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5429 455.jpg

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5106 336.jpg

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5401 721.jpg

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5401 717.jpg

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5401 723.jpg

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5401 719.jpg

I love it. The reaction internet-wide to it is very positive as well. Even on very anti-GM places like AutoBlog. :cool:


Where do I send my deposit?

No, I'm serious if they drop a LS2 with M6 in it I'll order mine now.

[redscare]

Why wouldn't they? The Commodore already uses a manual w/ their models - and as the GTO's engine/tranny has already been EPA certified, I'd hate to think that with this similar combo, updating that would be too bad.

Otherwise, if it is automatic-only, I'd hope they'd at least put the 6L80E in there.

Because GM has been known to make silly decisions in the past. I admit that I'll be surprised if they don't sell a manual version but I'm still somewhat worried about it.

[sccaGTO]

Because GM has been known to make silly decisions in the past. I admit that I'll be surprised if they don't sell a manual version but I'm still somewhat worried about it.
We shouldn't be totally worried. GM will probably make an auto tranny as standard equipment. That will allow the six-speed to be a "no cost option" (WTF?). I think GM should do like they do (or did) on other cars. If you get the AT as standard, normally there is a "delete credit" for getting the manual. I could have used a little less money in GMAC's pocket.

[TriShield]

we're probably going to get the barebones package l**** before, low grade model with hsv motor. I seriously doubt they wont give us a ls2 motored one.

For GM's sake I hope they're smarter than that. You can't sell a $30k+ sedan that only has leather and electric everything. If they take all the features out of the Commodore that will be the kiss of death for the car.

[PeteyPete]

I'll take one in white.

[TriShield]

With the CTS-V being completely redesigned and rumored to be over 500hp I think there's room in GM's US lineup for a 412hp Pontiac super-muscle-sport-sedan.

http://i12.tinypic.com/43m3fgo.jpg

http://i12.tinypic.com/2ql7u53.jpg

G8 GXP, make it so GM!

[mmciau]

With the CTS-V being completely redesigned and rumored to be over 500hp I think there's room in GM's US lineup for a 412hp Pontiac super-muscle-sport-sedan.

G8 GXP, make it so GM!

TriShield,

Have a gander at what one of South Australia's wizzes has done to VE!!

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=62836

Mike

[A04GTO]

I'm prbably in the minority here but think the regular SSv looks better than the HSV GTS. Ofcourse I'm probably also the only person here who likes the way their GTO looks from the facotry too.

[TriShield]

I'm prbably in the minority here but think the regular SSv looks better than the HSV GTS. Ofcourse I'm probably also the only person here who likes the way their GTO looks from the facotry too.

Actually I don't disagree. GM importing the HSV GTS is just a pipe-dream anyways.

I'll be pretty mad if they import the standard SS (it doesn't look nearly as good as the SS-V) and take all the features out of it.

Ideally they would import the SS-V and HSV GTS for Pontiac as is, and give them both a power boost. 400hp and 450-475hp respectively.

[sccaGTO]

I hate you TriShield. Stop showing great photos of cars that are not yet available. In about 10 months, flood the board. :turbonaug

[foster'sguy]

Just don't put the poxy Pontiac front end on it. Leave it as is.

+1!!!

[QuickSilverTiger]

With the CTS-V being completely redesigned and rumored to be over 500hp I think there's room in GM's US lineup for a 412hp Pontiac super-muscle-sport-sedan.

http://i12.tinypic.com/43m3fgo.jpg

http://i12.tinypic.com/2ql7u53.jpg

G8 GXP, make it so GM!

The look reminds me of a Nissan Skyline, I like the Skyline...but love my GTO!:)

See for yourself, go to msn.com...enter Nissan Skylie in the Search Engine and click on images.

[JohneHoodlum]

That side profile of the GTS looks amazing.

[eds65gto]

Hey:
I want one of those cars BBBBBBAAAAAADDDDDDDD ! !
The one with the Australian plates.
When can I get one?

EVERYONE CALL OR WRITE GM TO BRING THESE CARS HERE ! !

Ed

[nixapatfan]

Hey:
I want one of those cars BBBBBBAAAAAADDDDDDDD ! !
The one with the Australian plates.
When can I get one?

EVERYONE CALL OR WRITE GM TO BRING THESE CARS HERE ! !

Ed

:confused: LOL! By any chance did you read the title of this thread?

[s/c'd cav]

seats dont look as god as our seats now , rest is SEXY as your best w** d*&%*, you know

[ShawnG1313]

This is definitly my next car, I'll wait till the second year though just in case they decide to bump the displacement like last time around. Oh and that GTS is goregous, hopefully they don't change a thing, it's my new wallpaper.

[JoeyElbows]

I"m sold just let me know when. plus it'll be cool to have a sibling for the goat.

[Desertraptor]

This may just be rumour but I recently heard that Holden are going to put the LS1 in the next series VE. Don't know how tru this is. Maybe some else can confirm this.

[olly]

This may just be rumour but I recently heard that Holden are going to put the LS1 in the next series VE. Don't know how tru this is. Maybe some else can confirm this.

I doubt it.......after all, the ls1 was dropped end of 05 due to emmission regs.

[PMD GTO]

What are the chances that we will see one in Detriot at the NAIAS in January??

[Coop43]

What are the chances that we will see one in Detriot at the NAIAS in January??

Should be at ...... Chicago.

[RobertHammen]

Should be at ...... Chicago.

+1, in February. We'll see what concept Pontiac has at NAIAS in January. It's unlikely to be the VE Commodore. The question is whether or not it's a GTO concept or something else... rumors on other boards that Pontiac's getting a new small RWD chassis (code-name: alpha), for small 4, turbo 4 and maybe 6 cylinder cars (think 1- and 3-series competitors, on the low end, in coupe, sedan, and hatch/wagon varieties)... not out until 2010 or so, unfortunately.

[Harpo]

Those cars look awesome. Just hope GMNA doesn't do something stupid like slapping fake wood on the doors and calling it a Grand Safari.

[Jontall]

The GTS is awesome.

[johnh]

Still would love to see them keep the Grand Prix name....

[RobertHammen]

Still would love to see them keep the Grand Prix name....

Only if the Canadian Auto Workers union drops their name exclusivity on the Grand Prix name for the Oshawa plant.

The G8 might be short-lived (3 year cycle like our GTO's, 30k cars a year or so), replaced by an Oshawa-built Zeta-based Grand Prix in 2010 or so...

[omologato]

I would like to see this hit the US shores. No crazy badging, no gaudy styling ques, no f/r facia changes. Right hand to left hand, right hand to left hand RH/LH, RH/LH. Ya hurd meh!

[PMD GTO]

I don't think the Grand Prix name would work out. A lot of people would probably think it was just an update of the current model and would still think it was a FWD V6. IMHO it would be better to just drop the name and move onto something else.

[FutureGoatHearder]

I don't think the Grand Prix name would work out. A lot of people would probably think it was just an update of the current model and would still think it was a FWD V6. IMHO it would be better to just drop the name and move onto something else.

x2 :D

[TriShield]

I don't think the Grand Prix name would work out. A lot of people would probably think it was just an update of the current model and would still think it was a FWD V6. IMHO it would be better to just drop the name and move onto something else.

x3

G8 is a good name in line with Pontiac's current scheme. Pontiac's twin grille could be made to look very good on that car if it was made wide and the height kept short. After reading more reaction online I think a slightly bolder face would help sales, as well as appropriate marketing.

[keibere]

Some in person, non-studio photos of the car.

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5428 457.jpg

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5429 455.jpg

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5106 336.jpg

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5401 721.jpg

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5401 717.jpg

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5401 723.jpg

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5401 719.jpg

I love it. The reaction internet-wide to it is very positive as well. Even on very anti-GM places like AutoBlog. :cool:

Will my CCWs fit????

[RobertHammen]

Will my CCWs fit????

Rumor has it the VE's don't use the same bolt pattern, so most likely no, not without modification...

[mmciau]

I understand the pitch diameter is 120mm but they have also increased the diameter of the actual wheel stud. I'm not 100% sure of the diameter of the hub centre.

Mike

[keibere]

Thats a bummer.. Hey does anyone know if we will be getting the one with the Magnetic Suspension in America.... It sounds like that would be a nice option.....

[keibere]

I want this one. http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modeloverview?modelid=4006

or if they have a HSV version.. Other than that i don't know....

[keibere]

Now this is the puppy!!! The GTS... They need to bring Holden to America!! Forget rebadging as Pontiac, Chevy, Buick, or whatever. If they brought these as they are, i think they would make a killing. I'll buy one for sure....

http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/eseries/brochure/eserie s.pdf

[lanceygto]

pontiac needs to reinvent itself. Drop the name of Grand Prix so on and so forth and bring this car something like the G8.

[keibere]

Do they READ these boards. It's a great resource from them if they do. Probably better than focus groups. Car companies should hire someone to just browse forums on their product and give weekly reports to upper big wigs about what the poeple want. How many posts about this car on this board alone????? Probably a good amount...

[Kilboy82]

Do they READ these boards. It's a great resource from them if they do. Probably better than focus groups. Car companies should hire someone to just browse forums on their product and give weekly reports to upper big wigs about what the poeple want. How many posts about this car on this board alone????? Probably a good amount...

Thats a really good idea... Unfortunately GM isn't known for its brighht ideas...lol

[Mopar Man]

It's a shame they don't. I know that SRT engineers frequently browse SRT forums and listen to what the people there say. Of course the beancounters often have a big say on what eventually happens with a vehicle's final outcome. The SRT engineers even have Q&A sessions on the various SRT forums where they discuss current production vehicles (of course they aren't permitted to discuss future products).

I must say, I really like the looks of the VE Commodore. I think it's a sharp looking car, and would do very well here in the U.S rebadged as a Pontiac. But like people have mentioned before, don't give it a beloved name such as they did with the current GTO or Grand Prix as people already have a mindset as to what those vehicles should be (I realize it isn't the GTO's replacement). Dodge made the same mistake with the Charger. Mopar faithful were in an uproar seeing the Charger name on a 4dr sedan, even though it's a great vehicle.

Does anybody have any solid info on if the Commodore will in fact see the light of day here in the US in 2007 or is it still speculation? If so, I'd be very tempted to hold off potentially purchasing a current GTO and picking up one of them instead.

['91 Formula]

I believe, when they designed this chassis, they allowed for a front drive axle for AWD applications.;)

[GTPprix]

Uh yes GM reads this board LOL

[DevilYellow]

Do they READ these boards. It's a great resource from them if they do. Probably better than focus groups. Car companies should hire someone to just browse forums on their product and give weekly reports to upper big wigs about what the poeple want. How many posts about this car on this board alone????? Probably a good amount...

There was someone at Holden who went on this board once or twice a week back when the GTO's were first shipping. I doubt that person's job includes coming here after GTO production stopped. There are people in different facets of Pontiac and Holden that come here.

[RobertHammen]

Does anybody have any solid info on if the Commodore will in fact see the light of day here in the US in 2007 or is it still speculation? If so, I'd be very tempted to hold off potentially purchasing a current GTO and picking up one of them instead.

I would say that all of your questions will be answered at the Chicago Auto Show in mid-February...

[simpleGTO]

The first ones will be marked up like the GTOs were by the greedy dealers. Now you can get great deals on new GTOs.

[PMD GTO]

I would love to have this car.

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5713 395.jpg

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5713 396.jpg

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5713 406.jpg

http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5713 398.jpg

[Mopar Man]

That car is hot. I like it more everytime I see it. I wonder what kind of pricetag it will command over here though? Mid 30's?

[swegeon]

the HSV cars are awesome.. xxy but nice. i doubt if they will be exported to the USA. but anything is possible these days FTA & all that BS

[PMD GTO]

That car is hot. I like it more everytime I see it. I wonder what kind of pricetag it will command over here though? Mid 30's?

probably mid to upper 50's

[georgejetson]

probably mid to upper 50's

I doubt it. I can't see it costing more than a CTS-V, which is $53k.

The closest comparable in the US market is a Charger SRT-8, which starts around $38k. I think it'll need to be in that neighborhood.

[carsuperfreak]

I forget where exactly, but someone did the camparo of the SS-V price, and it came to about 35k. Unless you're referring to the HSV model, then that could likely be up near 50's category - but I would imagine they'd need to keep it around SRT8 prices.


Any news on the engine that they're going to send here in it? In AU they're using a version of the 6.0L L76 engine used in our trucks, but without the DoD (or AFM as it's known now - active fuel management) hardware, thus having the engine code L98. Might they put the LS2 in it? Oh pretty please?

[RobertHammen]

The original plan for the G8 VE was to built it here and put the LS2 in it. That got poop-canned when the original Zeta was cancelled. Building 30-35k G8's in Oz and shipping them to the U.S. is a fairly recent development, likely but not officially confirmed (we should know for sure around the time of the Chicago Auto Show). We'll know more about powertrains and pricing then, but it might be the same powertrain, and pricing in the $32-$35k range.

The pics of the silver car above are of the HSV variant. I doubt we'll see that here...

[Longtaddy]

The problem for GM in bringing in the HSV variant is it will cannibalize the CTS-V sales. If they bring it in it will either need to be priced near the Charger or well above the CTS-V. :judge:

[drmustang]

The pictures in this thread are showing a car that will likely have some serious interest here in the US. That car is really nice on the eyes. The LS2 would make this an affordable dream car. This would be some heavy competition for the CTS-V. My CTS-V lease is up in a year and I will buy this car if it pans out. The LS2 is arguably the best V8 ever marketed.

[GTPprix]

The CTS-V wont even be a blip on the radar for the G8, the CTS-V gets a ~500 HP supercharged LSA the same year as the G8 ends up stateside. No issue ;)

[PMD GTO]

Whoops read that question wrong. I meant mid 30's. The pictures of the car I posted I would guess would cost 50,000 in us currency.

[GTOZZ]

I would not expect to see a $50k HSV in the USA after GM lost money selling $33k 2004-2006 GTOs below $28k. Lutz would never get it past the beancounters. A Monaro cv8 in Australia with nav, side airbags, sunroof, back-up alarm, etc sold for $US 47k. The Grand Prix GXP is a decent performance sedan for the $$ but it's being discontinued along with the GTO.

['91 Formula]

The original plan for the G8 VE was to built it here and put the LS2 in it. That got poop-canned when the original Zeta was cancelled. Building 30-35k G8's in Oz and shipping them to the U.S. is a fairly recent development, likely but not officially confirmed (we should know for sure around the time of the Chicago Auto Show). We'll know more about powertrains and pricing then, but it might be the same powertrain, and pricing in the $32-$35k range.

The pics of the silver car above are of the HSV variant. I doubt we'll see that here...

I don't think it would be a strech that the US version gets the LS2. Especially since they already have them over there in the HSVs, like the one pictured above. I believe the standard Monaros never got the LS2, they stayed with the 5.7L.

[RobertHammen]

I would not expect to see a $50k HSV in the USA after GM lost money selling $33k 2004-2006 GTOs below $28k.

I agree that it's unlikely we'll see an HSV car here, but I disagree with your statement that GM lost money bringing the GTO here. It cost them essentially very little to develop ($150 million IIRC) and it not only extended the life of the Monaro and other export vehicles, it also kept Holden's factory running at full capacity. Holden probably made more than Pontiac, but GM did not lose $$$ on the GTO, I would bet...

I don't think it would be a strech that the US version gets the LS2. Especially since they already have them over there in the HSVs, like the one pictured above. I believe the standard Monaros never got the LS2, they stayed with the 5.7L.

Yep, the Monaro stayed with the LS1 until they couldn't sell LS1's anymore (stopped building them in late December of last year because the new Euro III emissions specifications precluded them from manufacturing LS1-based cars). GMNA is already sending LS2's to Holden for HSV... the motor fits... the question is if they want to increase the variation in assembly at Elizabeth, and ship a considerable number more LS2's to Oz (Holden sells what - 10-12k vehicles a year? If the SS-V is coming here to the tune of 30-35k vehicles a year, they would have to ship that many more LS2's to Oz, versus just sending the L76/L92's that they need. IIRC Holden makes their own 3.6L High Feature V6 but imports all V8's from GMNA...

--Robert

[carsuperfreak]

Yep, the Monaro stayed with the LS1 until they couldn't sell LS1's anymore (stopped building them in late December of last year because the new Euro III emissions specifications precluded them from manufacturing LS1-based cars). GMNA is already sending LS2's to Holden for HSV... the motor fits... the question is if they want to increase the variation in assembly at Elizabeth, and ship a considerable number more LS2's to Oz (Holden sells what - 10-12k vehicles a year? If the SS-V is coming here to the tune of 30-35k vehicles a year, they would have to ship that many more LS2's to Oz, versus just sending the L76/L92's that they need. IIRC Holden makes their own 3.6L High Feature V6 but imports all V8's from GMNA...

--Robert

L76/L98 right? L92 is the 6.2L truck engine.


Isn't the L76/L98 a variable valve timing, cam-in-block design? How would that affect modding a Commodore/G8 with a new cam?

[Purdone]

The LS2 is arguably the best V8 ever marketed.

WHAT? Are you kidding me? I bet 60% of 05/06 Vette and 40% of 05/06 GTO owners have no clue what LS2 means. Now, go ask just about any moron on the street what a Hemi is and they will say, "It's a big, powerful engine."

[carsuperfreak]

WHAT? Are you kidding me? I bet 60% of 05/06 Vette and 40% of 05/06 GTO owners have no clue what LS2 means. Now, go ask just about any moron on the street what a Hemi is and they will say, "It's a big, powerful engine."

He said the best V8 ever marketed, not the best marketed V8 ever. I think the LS2 is a much more robust and capable powertrain than the hemi.

[georgejetson]

He said the best V8 ever marketed, not the best marketed V8 ever. I think the LS2 is a much more robust and capable powertrain than the hemi.

I don't know about more robust, but it's definitely more efficient. The neo-Hemis are very good motors but they drink heavily.

[sloloco]

Interesting reads, thanks Chris! I love finding out about stuff lke this before my dealers, they really appreciate it. This also confirms Pontiacs movement to be all rear-wheel drive which has been the talk in the industry for over a year.

[jbls1gto]

Totally O/T, but is it true that the original Hemi's had no factory warranty? Weren't they garbage from a quality standpoint?

Why are the new Hemi's called Hemi's when there isnt really anything hemispherical about them?

[jbls1gto]

L76/L98 right? L92 is the 6.2L truck engine.


Isn't the L76/L98 a variable valve timing, cam-in-block design? How would that affect modding a Commodore/G8 with a new cam?

L98 is correct. Somewhat similar to the LQ9 but with an aluminum block.

[High Octane]

Totally O/T, but is it true that the original Hemi's had no factory warranty? Weren't they garbage from a quality standpoint?

Why are the new Hemi's called Hemi's when there isnt really anything hemispherical about them?

Not correct, the Hemi is called a Hemi because the piston and cylinder head is hemispherical or domed. The intake valve on one side, the exhaust on the other, with sparkplug in the center. This created a smooth even burn from the center spark plug. The 440 Magnum actually created more Horse power and torque than the 426 Hemi stock, but the Hemi took less effort to produce a stupid amount of aftermarket power.

[Enginerd]

Not correct, the Hemi is called a Hemi because the piston and cylinder head is hemispherical or domed. The intake valve on one side, the exhaust on the other, with sparkplug in the center. This created a smooth even burn from the center spark plug. The 440 Magnum actually created more Horse power and torque than the 426 Hemi stock, but the Hemi took less effort to produce a stupid amount of aftermarket power.

The pistons in the 'modern' hemi are not domed, I've had several of these engines apart (whhooops ;)). Heads are crossflow design as you stated, and there are 2 plugs per cylinder. One is for the intake stroke, one for exhaust...helps with emissions, not there for power.

DCX has used the HEMI designation rather loosely IMO...

[stss95]

Why do they have to keep killing the looks of these cars by adding a pontiac nose? They would probaly sell more if they brought them over as is.

[rlsedition]

Was that comment serious? If the sedan comes over as a Pontiac, it will get a Pontiac front fascia, and hopefully one that looks good. To suggest that the car come over as a Holden just doesn't make sense, unless you want to buy it from your local Holden dealer, of course.

[stss95]

Pontiac styling is terrible, why do they insist on changeing these holdens into pontiacs, why not chevys or buicks?? I am sure im not the only one who thinks this, the monaro is a much better looking car when compared to the GTO.

[MIAGTO]

I agree whole-heartidly with him. Pontiac (GM) styling has zero style. It's the redesign of the front nose and side-skirts of the Monaro/GTO that muted the looks of our car.

Pontiac said that Australians dont know what the US performance car buyer is looking for. LoL. Pontiac has NO CLUE that they-themselves have no clue what the US buyer is looking for.

Holden design would sell 1000x better than Pontiacs.

Just look at the interior of our cars. Best GM interior I've EVER seen, including Corvette and Caddy. Why? Because GM didnt touch it, aside from making it LHD.

[RobertHammen]

Ummm... Holden made it LHD, too, for export to GMME. GMNA was only involved from the perspective of making sure the plastics, et. al., were certified for temps the cars would likely see in the U.S. (the original Monaro interior wasn't).

I kinda agree that the Pontiac twin-nostril grille is getting... "tired". Look at how the Solstice kinda revitalizes the look... though I don't see a way to graft that onto the VE Commodore.

One thing I would love to see when/if the VE Commodore comes here as the G8, is spoiler delete from the factory (inverse of the GTO, where the Monaro didn't come with a spoiler, but we got one)...

[rlsedition]

There is nothjing inherently wrong with a twin-port grille design. It all depends on how that design is executed. Do you dislike all BMWs, too, due to their twin-port grilles?

It remains to be seen how the post-Solstice Pontiac will design their cars. The G5 and Torrent didn't tell us anything, being clones of Chevys. To me, that's the crux of the matter for Pontiac - can they set themselves apart from Chevy enough to warrant their continued existence?
When I was there, I was told to share every feature with Chevy, even those that Pontiac created (like HUD). We tried to have a little HP advantage versus Chevy to support our "performance division" positioning, but Chevy brass would have none of that. The only difference, then, would be the exterior/interior styling to separate the brands. Is that enough? In my opinion, no. If that's all there is, dump Pontiac as a brand.

[RobertHammen]

The only difference, then, would be the exterior/interior styling to separate the brands. Is that enough? In my opinion, no. If that's all there is, dump Pontiac as a brand.

I agree with you, that if Pontiac's sole purpose is to sell rebadged Chevy's, it's time to swing the axe.

Fortunately it seems Pontiac is going to get a family of small RWD cars (no more FWD G5 and G6, in 3-4 years). This will hopefully bring in new customers, particularly the young, who often don't consider GM cars... until Pontiac is successful at doing this, and then Chevy will want a small RWD vehicle family as well, and the problem reoccurs...

[wanna05gto]

Why do they have to keep killing the looks of these cars by adding a pontiac nose? They would probaly sell more if they brought them over as is.

Agreed. If they want to put a pontiac badge on it fine, but leave the front facia as is. The styling actually fits Buick more than Pontiac IMO. I say call it a Regal, and leave the rest of it alone.

[Ford Falcon driver]

Wheels magazine here in Aus has just published photos of a car purported to be the new G8. It's a Commodore with altered front fender (the crease line goes all the way to the headlights), rear lights (they extend further down to the bumper) and rear clip, revised trunk lid (its has a crease line at the bottom) and slightly restyled center stack. Photos were taken recently in northern Qld.

[MuhThugga]

^^Have pictures to scan/post up?

[Ford Falcon driver]

^^Have pictures to scan/post up?

Seems you can only upload images from a host site.

[1fstmach]

Seems you can only upload images from a host site.


you have that site?

I can try to get them to host here :wall:

[RobertHammen]

Seems you can only upload images from a host site.

Nope, if they're under 100K, you can upload them, then reference them in your post.

Otherwise, if you are looking for someone to host the files, drop me a PM and I'm sure it can be arranged...

[Ford Falcon driver]

Had to ease back on resolution to get under 100k:

/http:///www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachment.php?atta chmentid=48895&stc=1&d=1167339108

[burble]

Man! those checkerboards have a resolution of their own!

Presumably, the overall styling in the above picture is similar to the Commodore Omega.

The difference in tail light size is dramatically different than the Holden.

[dmenace]

I've got the same magazine.

At least they haven't changed the grill to much...

[muohio]

The frontend reminds me a lot of my Mazdaspeed Protege. Maybe that's why I'm really excited about this car.

http://home.cinci.rr.com/vibegt/images/msp2.jpg
http://images.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/5428 457.jpg

[PMD GTO]

Had to ease back on resolution to get under 100k:

/http:///www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachment.php?atta chmentid=48895&stc=1&d=1167339108

Looks bland and boring, just like every other american made GM 4-door car. To bad it looks like they screwed up a good thing. GM should just import the VE AS-IS.

Found a larger photo.

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2006 1227/AUTO03/612270322/1149
http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Sit e=C3&Date=20061227&Category=AUTO03&ArtNo=612270322&Ref=H3&Profile=1149&MaxW=1500&Q=100&title=1

[RobertHammen]

Looks bland and boring, just like every other american made GM 4-door car. To bad it looks like they screwed up a good thing. GM should just import the VE AS-IS.

Gee, I'm amazed how much you can tell about a car's looks from a checkerboarded prototype car that's missing its grille.

Bland & boring? Sounds like the Camry and Accord. Oh wait, they don't have the arched wheel wells, most don't have dual exhaust, and they certainly don't have V8 rumble.

Oh, and for humor, read the Detroit News article you can see linked from the picture you posted. 2010 G8/Grand Prix made in Canada? Try 2008 G8 made in Oz... as we will all find out within the next 5 weeks or so...

[Flash99]

WOW that white one looks sharp!

[GTOGRRRR]

Holden builds some awesome RWD vehicles....drove em when i was in Australia....when i heard they were doing the GTO for th U.S. i i put my order in...by the way....the Commodore in this form has been around for 4 years....if anything, the Mazda 6 copied the Holden....the new Grand Prix will be my daily driver...GM is back!!....using their global resources....

[ringram]

Holden's cat out of bag - SS off to America

Joshua Dowling Motoring Editor in Detroit

January 9, 2007

AUSTRALIA'S biggest-selling car, the Holden Commodore, will be exported to the US, it has been unofficially confirmed at the Detroit motor show.

The announcement was not due to be made until the Chicago motor show next month, but the worldwide head of product development at General Motors, Bob Lutz, gave away more than he was supposed to during a news conference.

Just minutes after Holden officials refused to answer questions about the Commodore's export program, Mr Lutz revealed details about the deal.

The Commodore SS, a V8- powered sports sedan, will be sold as a Pontiac from late this year or early next year.

Holden expects to export 30,000 Commodores annually, about half what it sells locally.

"We are seriously planning to import a lot of Commodore SS sedans as Pontiac G8s," Mr Lutz said, adding that Holden could export up to 50,000 Commodores a year if the model was priced correctly.

Mr Lutz said the export of the Holden Monaro as a Pontiac GTO from 2003 to last year (during which 40,000 of the V8 coupes were sold) brought Holden's expertise to the attention of its parent company, General Motors in North America.

"We are yet to officially announce it," Mr Lutz said of the Commodore export deal, once he realised that he had made a faux pas.

He eventually admitted that selling the V8 version of the Commodore in the US was such a logical thing to do as it filled a void in Pontiac's line-up.

"While [the Monaro's] export program may not have fulfilled all of our hopes and dreams in terms of profitability and volume, it did break the ice on global programs."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/holdens-cat-out-of-bag--ss-off-to-america/2007/01/08/1168104921065.html

[burble]

Ahh, some confirmation of the VE is “A Magic Vehicle” and Pontiac Deal Under Way statement.

[nequiem]

Some are questioning how this is going to be a GP replacement at only 30K-50K annual export when the GP sold at 100K. In 2005, 40% of Pontiac sales were fleet and much of that was probably GP. I assume there won't be many takers to fleet out a 6 liter vehicle so those numbers can be counted out when comparing past sales. It remains to be seen how the public will react to this car. Less are going to want the V8 so that ticks off a few more sales. That still leaves a gap but not much. Actually, all they have to do is market, or rather NOT market the G8 like they did with the GTO. Hopefully dealers won't throw out a huge markup on this vehicle and I don't see that they would considering it won't have the same hype attached to it the goat had in 2004. I guess we'll find out when it hits the shores. I think it's a great car and I'm looking forward to seeing it in NA.

[JusticePete]

The G8 will be produced in AU while the Impala, Camaro and El Camino are built in Canada. We can't wait for the vehicle to be released -- :secret: as early as a September 2007 introduction.:secret: Building the Pontiacs in AU will provide true points of difference between the Impala / G8 and the Camaro / GTO. Welcome to the new Global GM.

As far as suspension I can tell you the geometry and performance are quite good. We have been selling / installing VE Commodore Sports Ryder lowering coils since the introduction. We are testing a four coilover setup right now with complete suspension kits to be on our USA Dealer's shelves the day the car hits the streets in the USA. We already have the lowering coils and strut mounts in the USA warehouse.

We think this is a great move for GM, Pontiac and enthusiasts.

[McCarron]

nequiem, I'm thinking the G8 for it's first year or two will run along side the Grand Prix. After it's more successful they will phase out the GP and only have the G8 which by then may later be manufactured here in the US and able to handle the larger quantities.

[BowdawG]

Holden builds some awesome RWD vehicles....
Very true!
by the way....the Commodore in this form has been around for 4 years....if anything, the Mazda 6 copied the Holden....
Not quite... That blue Commodore and the camo-ed one are the brand new from the ground-up VE platform

[JusticePete]

That blue Commodore and the camo-ed one are the brand new from the ground-up VE platform

All new and vastly improved. We think this is the best suspension we have seen on any main stream sedan. GM has game changing technology with ZETA. It is even better Pedderised.:gr_devil:


http://www.peddersusa.com/ZETA/ve%20irs%202.jpg

We have more suspension detail at the ZETA Camaro (http://www.peddersusa.com/Camaro_2009.htm)soon to be changed to the ZETA G8 & Camaro (http://www.peddersusa.com/Camaro_2009.htm)page on our website

[s/c'd cav]

about time they did a better irs

although something closer to the vette irs woulda been better

[drmustang]

The G8 will be produced in AU while the Impala, Camaro and El Camino are built in Canada. We can't wait for the vehicle to be released -- :secret: as early as a September 2007 introduction.:secret: Building the Pontiacs in AU will provide true points of difference between the Impala / G8 and the Camaro / GTO. Welcome to the new Global GM.

As far as suspension I can tell you the geometry and performance are quite good. We have been selling / installing VE Commodore Sports Ryder lowering coils since the introduction. We are testing a four coilover setup right now with complete suspension kits to be on our USA Dealer's shelves the day the car hits the streets in the USA. We already have the lowering coils and strut mounts in the USA warehouse.

We think this is a great move for GM, Pontiac and enthusiasts.

This would appear to be a real winner and a great move for sure. The pictures on this thread are killer. Pontiac and GM need this kind of stuff. A strong V8 with RWD in that car would be a knock out. Hopefully there is confirmation of this and more specifics in the coming days or weeks. This is great for GM.

[dmenace]

about time they did a better irs

although something closer to the vette irs woulda been better

Well not sure about that. How much can the vetter tow?

[PMD GTO]

Well not sure about that. How much can the vetter tow?

Who cares about towing, in the U.S. we have big ol' honkin gas guzzling trucks to do the towing, not 2 door coupes or 4 door sedans.

[RobertHammen]

nequiem, I'm thinking the G8 for it's first year or two will run along side the Grand Prix. After it's more successful they will phase out the GP and only have the G8 which by then may later be manufactured here in the US and able to handle the larger quantities.

Ummm, the Grand Prix is gone, dead, after 2007, so that the plant can be rebuilt to build the Camaro (and Impala). Good riddance, as the current model is a "fleet special" and over 70% of the 100k Grand Prix's sold in 2006 fit that category.

What's the remaining number? 30k. Gee, how many Holdens does Pontiac want to import?

Some are questioning how this is going to be a GP replacement at only 30K-50K annual export when the GP sold at 100K. In 2005, 40% of Pontiac sales were fleet and much of that was probably GP.

See above.

Hopefully there is confirmation of this and more specifics in the coming days or weeks. This is great for GM.

The official announcement will be at the Chicago Auto Show http://www.chicagoautoshow.com/ which begins on February 9th. I'll be there, hopefully taking tons of in-person pictures...

[swegeon]

about time they did a better irs

although something closer to the vette irs woulda been better

the corvette and the viper are really the only saleable americian cars that the rest ot the world really wants,dont get to upset but american fwd 4's & 6's dont hit the spot. i'm sure over the next year or 2 the commodore will get a fair dinkum pasteing by you guys[what it should be ect.ect.]just like you did 4 years ago with the gto.the gto is the only car pontiac have got thats 1/2 good.spoiled by that twin kidney grill, & spoiler on the arse,the ve is a better car than the 10 year old monaro,a $billion it should be, just dont change it.the hsv gts is one of the most stunning cars on australian roads[yes we do have roads here]we just dont have americian fwd cars, everything else yes .dont knock it till you drive it.dont buy it, stay with your fwd stuff:rant: :rant:

[speeddemon]

I wonder what colors we will get ;)

[itsme4g63]

more icing to the cake
http://www.leftlanenews.com/2007/01/08/gm-confirms-rwd-pontiac-g8/

[A04GTO]

I wish they(GM) would put out some official pics of the G8.

[dmenace]

i think it will come out at the Chicago Motor Show...

[swegeon]

They might as well import this too.

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds .com//media/il/news/2006/0823/hsv.eseries.gts.2.50 0.jpg

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds .com//media/il/news/2006/0823/hsv.eseries.gts.1.50 0.jpg

Call it the G8 GXP, give it more power, price a bit under the next CTS-V and directly at the Chrysler SRT-8 triplets.

just in case you forgot what a ve commodore was

[drmustang]

Ummm, the Grand Prix is gone, dead, after 2007, so that the plant can be rebuilt to build the Camaro (and Impala). Good riddance, as the current model is a "fleet special" and over 70% of the 100k Grand Prix's sold in 2006 fit that category.

What's the remaining number? 30k. Gee, how many Holdens does Pontiac want to import?



See above.



The official announcement will be at the Chicago Auto Show http://www.chicagoautoshow.com/ which begins on February 9th. I'll be there, hopefully taking tons of in-person pictures...

Hope ya get those pics and lots of good info. I've got a CTS-V that comes off lease in early 08. This car looks as if it would be a great replacement. Can't wait to get more details on this exciting new product-thanks.

[MuhThugga]

just in case you forgot what a ve commodore was

That's an HSV GTS, and I am absolutely in love with those wheels.

My next purchase will solely be based on whether or not the next GTO is the Aussie Monaro counterpart to the Commodore again, or a retro piece of crap.

If the former, I shall be owning two GTOs. If the latter, I shall be owning a GTO and a G8.
Either way, I will have those wheels. They are fantastic.

[Warren Oates]

For years GM's been looking to get into bed with an import brand. Why not just ax Pontiac, call it Holden and bring 'em ALL in?

Warren Oates

[White Rider]

Not quite... That blue Commodore and the camo-ed one are the brand new from the ground-up VE platform

The VY commodore in 2001 gave the first glance at the direction Holden was taking for the front of the VE so maybe this is what he ment. And actually It looks even more similar to that Mazda.

http://www.pt.qld.gov.au/auctions/vehicles/images/ 041202/VY-Acclaim.jpg

http://home.cinci.rr.com/vibegt/images/msp2.jpg

[RobertHammen]

For years GM's been looking to get into bed with an import brand. Why not just ax Pontiac, call it Holden and bring 'em ALL in?

Because the average consumer has heard of Pontiac, and hasn't heard of Holden. Oh wait, maybe that'd be a good thing.

No, seriously, the reasons would include, how much $$$ would you have to spend in marketing to build the Holden brand? What about all of the Pontiac dealers/agreements? It cost GM $1 billion to pay off the disgruntled Olds dealerships.

Best to take a non-NA car and give it a NA name under an existing marque. After all, Honda (Legend->Acura Legend) and Toyota (Altezza->IS300) have done this kinda thing for years, and nobody's complained...

[TriShield]

Because the average consumer has heard of Pontiac, and hasn't heard of Holden. Oh wait, maybe that'd be a good thing.

No, seriously, the reasons would include, how much $$$ would you have to spend in marketing to build the Holden brand? What about all of the Pontiac dealers/agreements? It cost GM $1 billion to pay off the disgruntled Olds dealerships.

Most people don't think about that at all. If GM discontinued another brand they would have a Hell of a time getting new franchisees for their existing brands. Holden sells a line of small Opels in Australia, that's like saying they should just establish Opel instead of badging them as Holdens. It makes no sense whatsoever.

[isszy]

:burnout: :secret: :pir_flag: :secret: :secret: Most people don't think about that at all. If GM discontinued another brand they would have a Hell of a time getting new franchisees for their existing brands. Holden sells a line of small Opels in Australia, that's like saying they should just establish Opel instead of badging them as Holdens. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Hey Trishield,

I agree - Holden has sold Vauxhalls, Opels, Chevrolets, Isuzus and even Toyotas and Nissans badged as Holdens, and the brand is as strong as ever. No reason Pontiac can't make use of some of the best vehicles in the world to improve brand recognition.

I saw your comments on www.gminsidenews.com on the same topic. I couldn't agree more - there are a whole lot of people who can't get over the fact that these cars are not built in the US.

The ill-informed comments about the name, price, boring look amazed me. Anybody who has seen a VE in the flesh would not ever call the styling boring - even the poverty pack Omega has a classy presence on the road.

[speeddemon]

:burnout: :secret: :pir_flag: :secret: :secret:

Hey Trishield,

I agree - Holden has sold Vauxhalls, Opels, Chevrolets, Isuzus and even Toyotas and Nissans badged as Holdens, and the brand is as strong as ever. No reason Pontiac can't make use of some of the best vehicles in the world to improve brand recognition.

I saw your comments on www.gminsidenews.com on the same topic. I couldn't agree more - there are a whole lot of people who can't get over the fact that these cars are not built in the US.

The ill-informed comments about the name, price, boring look amazed me. Anybody who has seen a VE in the flesh would not ever call the styling boring - even the poverty pack Omega has a classy presence on the road.
isszy,you gotta learn to deal with the asshats over here who like to criticize the car because its not made in detroit :o and overall it will have a build quality like the GTO's.........nothing made in the US besides the vette and supercars has this amazing build!

[swegeon]

deva vu .the same thing happened 4 years ago with the gto.i remember all the s### .australian built? build quality? oz mussel cars?holden who? has to be built in the usa!do they make cars in australia! where is australia?monaro what!lutz this lutz that!retro-retro-- it goes on and on. the same thing will happen all over ,history repeats.......fortunately the ve is a better car than the monaro/gto/ 10 years & a $billion better

[dmenace]

deva vu .the same thing happened 4 years ago with the gto.i remember all the s### .australian built? build quality? oz mussel cars?holden who? has to be built in the usa!do they make cars in australia! where is australia?monaro what!lutz this lutz that!retro-retro-- it goes on and on. the same thing will happen all over ,history repeats.......fortunately the ve is a better car than the monaro/gto/ 10 years & a $billion better

I totally agree if you guys think the GTO has great build quality wait till you see the VE...

[bonequark]

Hey Guys, is the VE available over there with AWD?

[s/c'd cav]

:burnout: :secret: :pir_flag: :secret: :secret:

Hey Trishield,

I agree - Holden has sold Vauxhalls, Opels, Chevrolets, Isuzus and even Toyotas and Nissans badged as Holdens, and the brand is as strong as ever. No reason Pontiac can't make use of some of the best vehicles in the world to improve brand recognition.

I saw your comments on www.gminsidenews.com on the same topic. I couldn't agree more - there are a whole lot of people who can't get over the fact that these cars are not built in the US.

The ill-informed comments about the name, price, boring look amazed me. Anybody who has seen a VE in the flesh would not ever call the styling boring - even the poverty pack Omega has a classy presence on the road.

i think australia , and a couple other countries have our passion for cars , the gto being made there was never a issue for me or any one that i know(other than getting replacement parts)

hell ive had better service from HOLDEN than i have with ponticrap , ill agree NIX ponticrap and use holden or opel , since GM did sell opel cars here in the US along time ago

[swegeon]

Hey Guys, is the VE available over there with AWD?

not yet

[PMD GTO]

Since no one else has commented on this that I have seen, I have a feeling that with 30,000 expected G8's to be imported per year that a LARGE portion of those vehicles will be V6 models. Both v6 and v8 models are shipped to the middle east, so why would it be any different for the U.S. They may even be broken down into trim levels. Take a look that the Chevrolet Lumina from the Middle East. Could we then ASSUME, that the Holden Commodore VE SS would then end up being the Pontiac G8 GXP???

http://www.chevroletarabia.com/content_data/LAAM/M E/en/GBPME/001/G1/1L/1L_home.html?cntryCd=AE

Gallery:
http://www.chevroletarabia.com/content_data/LAAM/M E/en/GBPME/001/G1/1L/1L_imagegallery.html?cntryCd= AE
Dual Climate Controls anyone??

[Coop43]

2009 for Oshawa built G8?

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20 070112/BUSINESS01/701120360/1014

Edit: Forgot link when I first posted. :banghead:

[94TransAmGT]

Pontiac will get pep with sport sedan
January 12, 2007

BY MARK PHELAN

FREE PRESS AUTO CRITIC

Pontiac will add a rear-wheel-drive sport sedan to its lineup as soon as the end of this year or in early 2008, General Motors Corp. sources confirmed Thursday. GM will probably officially announce the car at the Chicago auto show in February.

The news was reported this week in the Sydney (Australia) Morning Herald, which quoted GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz.

The person did not want to be named, because Lutz was not yet authorized to announce the decision.

The car, to be called the G8, will be based on the Holden Commodore VE SS, which went on sale in Australia last August. It will eventually replace the Pontiac Grand Prix.

The top Commodore model features a 362-horsepower 6.0-liter V8 engine and a choice of six-speed automatic or manual transmission. The five-passenger sedan is about 5 inches shorter than a Pontiac Grand Prix.

From Detroit Free Press 1/12/07

It will be built in Aussy land. Canada for later version - eh? Not sure 25,000 units makes sense to mfr. in N.A.

94TransAmGT

[JusticePete]

Pontiac will get pep with sport sedan
January 12, 2007

BY MARK PHELAN

FREE PRESS AUTO CRITIC

Pontiac will add a rear-wheel-drive sport sedan to its lineup as soon as the end of this year or in early 2008, General Motors Corp. sources confirmed Thursday. GM will probably officially announce the car at the Chicago auto show in February.

The news was reported this week in the Sydney (Australia) Morning Herald, which quoted GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz.

The person did not want to be named, because Lutz was not yet authorized to announce the decision.

The car, to be called the G8, will be based on the Holden Commodore VE SS, which went on sale in Australia last August. It will eventually replace the Pontiac Grand Prix.

The top Commodore model features a 362-horsepower 6.0-liter V8 engine and a choice of six-speed automatic or manual transmission. The five-passenger sedan is about 5 inches shorter than a Pontiac Grand Prix.

From Detroit Free Press 1/12/07

It will be built in Aussy land. Canada for later version - eh? Not sure 25,000 units makes sense to mfr. in N.A.

94TransAmGT

The numbers in the AU newspaper were 30,000 to 50,000.

[BowdawG]

2010 model will be Canadian, so 2 yrs as Aussie export model.

Wouldn't it be nice for them to start 08 G8 production this spring...

Wouldn't it be nice to have a HSV developed GXP...

just wishfull dreaming, hoping Pontiac will listen!!

EDIT:
You forgot to post the link:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20 070112/BUSINESS01/701120360/1014

and here's the rest of the writeup....

"...The powerful model should help bolster Pontiac's standing as GM's performance brand.

Pontiac expects to sell 25,000 to 30,000 G8s annually, a person close to the program said. The car will initially be imported from Australia and share its sheet metal with the Commodore VE, although the grille and bumpers "will be unmistakably Pontiac," the person said.

Production of a second-generation model with unique Pontiac styling should begin at GM's plant in Oshawa, Ontario, in 2009.

The G8 comes from the same global Zeta development program as the Chevrolet Camaro sports coupe and convertible, which Oshawa will begin building in late 2008 or early 2009.

The program was developed in Australia, GM's center of expertise for affordable rear-wheel-drive cars. It is also expected to produce the Chevrolet Caprice large rear-wheel-sedan and one or more models for Buick."

25,000 pontiac
+ ____ Chev (impala/replacement)
+ ____ Camaro/GTO coupes
+ ____ Buick 4drs.

= crapload of cars, definitely makes sense to make them in Oshawa!

[drmustang]

They need to get an 08 model to the states by September. The retarded delivery schedule that plagued the GTO does not work well. American car buyers expect new models in the late summer/early fall and are not receptive to excuses about delivery delays or when cars are built in Australia.

[Pat]

This will probably offend some, but I am not interested in the Oshawa car. I've owned plenty of GM cars built in North America, and very few of them come close to the quality level of my Australian-built GTO.

I'll take a true Holden version, probably a 2009 or whatever the final year of the "real" Holdens is.

[drmustang]

This will probably offend some, but I am not interested in the Oshawa car. I've owned plenty of GM cars built in North America, and very few of them come close to the quality level of my Australian-built GTO.

I'll take a true Holden version, probably a 2009 or whatever the final year of the "real" Holdens is.

I've owned more North American designed and built cars than I can remeber. Covettes, Cadillacs, GMCs and others. Never had a problem with any of them. No peeling paint, no busted struts, messed up gas pedals, useless seat motors, inexcusable delivery delays, or any of the all to common, well documented "Holden" problems and screw-ups.

[tiga]

I intend on buy the G8 about a year after it comes out. Currenlty have 05 GTO. The only request I would have is electronic climate control and please please lets do away with this god awful stereo. My experience when it comes to stereos is that if there is a name brand involved it stinks like in my last M3 and Rx8 and now the GTO. And please have a stereo with XM satellite capabiltiy. Other then that have seen many videos of the car in action and it looks to have a great build quality wise.

[TriShield]

2009 for Oshawa built G8?

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20 070112/BUSINESS01/701120360/1014

Edit: Forgot link when I first posted. :banghead:

That doesn't make any sense. I'm sure Oshawa will manufacture US-designed variants of the Commodore but not the Commodore itself. Holden needs to successfully export this car to keep their manufacturing base viable.

[TriShield]

GM also produces a quite a range of cars in the US that are as nicely trimmed, and made as the GTO. Not to take anything away from Holden or the Commodore. It will be another nice GM product with some added uniqueness to it.

[TriShield]

I saw your comments on www.gminsidenews.com on the same topic. I couldn't agree more - there are a whole lot of people who can't get over the fact that these cars are not built in the US.


Thanks, prior to Holdens coming to the US I really didn't know Pontiac had any "true" fans left. GMI proved me and it's scary. Pontiac to people my age (and their legacy of the past thirty years) has been as the purveyor of really awful plastic cladded cars. I never thought I would ever go to a dealer and actually buy one NEW. GM should thank Holden for that.

[tiga]

Check out this video of the Commadore SS V http://media.drive.com.au/?rid=21095

[TriShield]

It's official (kinda).

http://drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?A rticleID=22576&vf=2

GM is interested in importing the Commodore SV6 and HSV Clubsport/GTS for Pontiac too.

SV6 = G8 V6

HSV = G8 GXP

Like I said a long time ago, no brainer. The SV6 would have the widest appeal and probably make up the bulk of the sales volume.

I don't see why Pontiac couldn't move a a few hundred HSVs either. If the HSV GTS really comes here they'd better do nothing more than change the badges, it's perfection as it is and I WILL buy one.

[scratch1275]

I've owned more North American designed and built cars than I can remeber. Covettes, Cadillacs, GMCs and others. Never had a problem with any of them. No peeling paint, no busted struts, messed up gas pedals, useless seat motors, inexcusable delivery delays, or any of the all to common, well documented "Holden" problems and screw-ups.



I agree with Pat, and I'll probably get bashed too. My last vehicle was an '04 Colorado which, after 9 trips to the service center in 8 months, was sold back to GM under lemon law. An '87 Iroc-Z was the last GM product before that. It had so much body flex that the windshield cracked as I was driving into the driveway one day. Between these two was a Toyota MR2, a Mazda RX7 and an Acura RSX, all of which had not only superior build quality but were far better engineered cars. I have had no problems with my '04 GTO in 48k miles with the exception of excessive piston slap - where are the LS1s built? I will say that what impresses me most about my GTO isn't the build quality, but the thoughful engineering that went into it. It is very solid and doesn't sqeak or rattle at all. In this respect it reminds me most of my Toyota. I would prefer to have a VE built in Australia, but if the '10 model is at least engineered in Australia and built in GMs highest quality plant (Oshawa), I'm sure it will have both excellent build quality and engineering.

[CycloneGoat2005]

Imo Opinion Let Canada Have The Right To The Name Grand Prix And Lets Just Call It The "GREAT-8"

[tmoneyr007]

I don't see why Pontiac couldn't move a a few hundred HSVs either. If the HSV GTS really comes here they'd better do nothing more than change the badges, it's perfection as it is and I WILL buy one.


:mswerd:

[tiga]

Check out this video on the development, testing, debut, etc of the Commadore. It is a six part series. Great stuff ...should make it a sticky. Here is the site...NOTE...VERY IMPORTANT...U MUST SCROLL DOWN THE PAGE TO NEAR THE BOTTEM TO GET TO THE VIDEO AND IT IS A LONG PAGE....www.streetfire.net/archive/2006_09_01_arch ive.aspx

[burnout]

How does the interior of the commodore compare to the Monaro/GTO ??

[Pat]

How does the interior of the commodore compare to the Monaro/GTO ??
http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modeloverview?modelid=4006

[]<ing]

So - any ideas about the powerplant? I know it says V8, but which V8?

Per Autoweek:
"General Motors will draw on its Australian Holden division for a new rear-wheel-drive sedan to replace the Pontiac Grand Prix. The Holden Commodore SS will be rebadged as the 2008 Pontiac G8 when it arrives in the U.S. late this year or early next year, according to published reports.

GM vice chairman Bob Lutz spilled the beans on plans for the car at the Detroit auto show and promised that more details will be forthcoming at the Chicago show in February.

“It’s such a logical thing to do,” Lutz said. “The volume range is 30,000 to 50,000. It depends on how we price it.” Reports indicate pricing will be around $25,000.

The latest Pontiac will draw on the Holden Commodore that went on sale in Australia in August 2006. The right-hand-drive model must be re-engineered for left-hand drive for the U.S. Spy shots reveal that work is well under way, along with new sheetmetal, to distinguish it from its Aussie cousin.

G8 will come with a choice of V6 or V8 engines, including a 6.0-liter 362-hp, 390-lb-ft V8 coupled to a six-speed manual or automatic transmission.

GM previously sold a rebadged Holden Monaro as the Pontiac GTO in the United States, and despite the car’s strong appeal to enthusiasts, sales of the 2004 to 2006 models did not meet expectations.

6.0 = LS2? Only 362 HP?

[MuhThugga]

$25,000 would be for the V6. That is the 6.0L Vortec truck engine. The Pontiacs will most likely get LS2s with 400 BHP. I love those HSV wheels.

[Whisky]

Anyone want to make an attempt to explain why they have this car in Aus, and the middle east, but we always have to wait and get stuck with the crap? You know, the more you look around the rest of the world, the more you can make an argument that GM NA is out to lunch.

That car along with the Lumina SS version of it on the ChevroletArabia site would SELL here! It blows my mind that they fail to recognize this.

[tmoneyr007]

Anyone want to make an attempt to explain why they have this car in Aus, and the middle east, but we always have to wait and get stuck with the crap? You know, the more you look around the rest of the world, the more you can make an argument that GM NA is out to lunch.

That car along with the Lumina SS version of it on the ChevroletArabia site would SELL here! It blows my mind that they fail to recognize this.

WORD!

[JusticePete]

There is a reason GM is investing 850 million dollars in a plant in North America and it is is more than the Camaro. The G8 and Camaro are just the beginning.

[tiga]

Administrator....any chance of getting that near hour long video of the planning and building of the commadore from Holden as a sticky..We can all give our opinions on this thing but if you want fact check out the video from Holden.

[monaroCountry]

HSV GTS having fun....................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRS6A1wjwXw

[DevilYellow]

Administrator....any chance of getting that near hour long video of the planning and building of the commadore from Holden as a sticky..We can all give our opinions on this thing but if you want fact check out the video from Holden.

I have a copy of it on DVD but I dont know of where there is a central location to host that video. When it first came out we all torrent'd it.

[Pat]

<ing;2143166']So - any ideas about the powerplant? I know it says V8, but which V8?

Per Autoweek:


6.0 = LS2? Only 362 HP?
It's not an LS2, it's the new fourth-generation L98.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine#L98

[dmenace]

Administrator....any chance of getting that near hour long video of the planning and building of the commadore from Holden as a sticky..We can all give our opinions on this thing but if you want fact check out the video from Holden.

I totally agree

[swegeon]

Anyone want to make an attempt to explain why they have this car in Aus, and the middle east, but we always have to wait and get stuck with the crap? You know, the more you look around the rest of the world, the more you can make an argument that GM NA is out to lunch.

That car along with the Lumina SS version of it on the ChevroletArabia site would SELL here! It blows my mind that they fail to recognize this.

you hear it all the time ...HOLDENS are too BLAND for america...no fried chickens on the hood,no beaver teeth grill...no fwd...no style... americans like aggresive looking cars ...pontiac G-spot will wet your lips:gears:

[monaroCountry]

This is a picture of a boring and bland 600rwhp daily driver Holden VE SS..............

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/GTBMad/Dcei ve/_Y0B8598.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/GTBMad/Dcei ve/_Y0B8580.jpg

[isszy]

Wow...

That's all I have to say about that.

Wow...

[isszy]

Administrator....any chance of getting that near hour long video of the planning and building of the commadore from Holden as a sticky..We can all give our opinions on this thing but if you want fact check out the video from Holden.

Some of these might help...

http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/gallery?navid=7

[briandors]

It's not an LS2, it's the new fourth-generation L98.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine#L98

I gotta agree. They're using the L98 now. It's used in the Aus market, and current export markets. Why would they ship LS2s down there just for the Pontiac product?

There would have to be much more engineering validation work done if they decided to switch engines. I just don't see it. I could see them tweaking the L98 a bit, and then MAYBE a low volume GXP level G8 would have a LSx engine in it. But the volume G8 V8 product will probably be L98 powered.

[tmoneyr007]

but aren't the LS2's supposed to not be in production longer than through the 08 models?

[]<ing]

It's not an LS2, it's the new fourth-generation L98.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine#L98

So is that good or bad news for potential owners?

I know virtually nothing about the L98 (thanks for the Wiki link). Does it have the same aftermarket potential of the LS2?

[]<ing]

This is a picture of a boring and bland 600rwhp daily driver Holden VE SS..............

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/GTBMad/Dcei ve/_Y0B8598.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/GTBMad/Dcei ve/_Y0B8580.jpg

Stunning.

[RobertHammen]

Why would they ship LS2s down there just for the Pontiac product? There would have to be much more engineering validation work done if they decided to switch engines.

Well, they already do ship LS2's down there for the HSV models (and used to for the '05/'06 GTO). Not much difference between 15-20k V8's and 30k... though a bunch of the G8's will in fact be 3.6L HF V6's (which Holden makes at their engine plant). Heck, do they import all of the L98's as well?

but aren't the LS2's supposed to not be in production longer than through the 08 models?

That's true as well.

And that black SS-V is simply awesome. I dare any of the GM fanboy dolts on GMI to post that the VE in general (and that SS-V in particular) is "bland".

[PMD GTO]

The VE is BLAND. :stickpoke:


Just like my GTO. :gr_jest:

[RobertHammen]

And someone did the (minimal) Photoshop work to those images to make the car into a G8:

http://www.hammen.net/images/perfectg8a.jpg
http://www.hammen.net/images/perfectg8b.jpg

[jbk]

And someone did the (minimal) Photoshop work to those images to make the car into a G8:

http://www.hammen.net/images/perfectg8a.jpg
http://www.hammen.net/images/perfectg8b.jpg

I like it.

Hood doesn't open though ;)