Who hopes they don't bring back the GTO?

[emg32]

In a way I would love to see a new GTO in 2009 or 2010 but in a way I like the '04, '05 and '06 being the only newer GTO's in the last 30 years. It makes them seem more special IMO if GM doesn't bring back the name.

I guess overall I would prefer to see the Trans AM come back and leave the GTO alone.

What do you guys think?

[Fenderplayer]

as long as i can still get parts, i don't care, i like my goat :)

[QSM6SPD]

If done right, sure, I'd like to see one in the future. But if it's a retro-design, they can keep it. I love the old GTO's, but there's a reason they are old, classic GTOs. If you want retro styling, go buy an old one.

[RobertHammen]

I sure hope they do, or else our cars will be "blamed" for killing off the GTO name.

OTOH, I know I won't be buying a second one. An SS-V here, OTOH...

--Robert

[abepro]

I hope they bring it back. I think anything that doesn't have retro cues is going to be frowned at. I would rather see a fully modern design. You have to make all the old guys with their rose colored glasses happy.. I wouldn't mind having a Trans Am either.

[jonlee]

as long as it isn't that disaster of a design that's retro, i'd consider it.

[nfernandes]

Hmm so in another 10 years the cars will be retro to look like the 70's cars?

The 60's are over let's move on. Just my opinion.

[Dan_E]

Saving my pennies for the next gen GTO, whatever it is!

[GTOZZ]

I think mine is a keeper and the GTO is history after LFP turns off the lights and closes up shop.

[Kenny]

If there is no new GTO, that will make the '04-06 models orphans. That would be a shame, since they don't deserve that sort of status. It would be nice if, in years to come, the '04-06 Goats are seen in the same way as the '64 model (start of a new breed), rather than in the same light as the last of the old Goats. That's my opinion as a distant observer and I wouldn't blame Goat owners for perhaps feeling different on the subject.

[TexasAggie]

If they don't bring it back that's fine. Rare is a nice thing.

[QuickSilverTiger]

I hope they bring in another GTO, but if GM takes too long, or never brings back the GTO I'll be in the next gen G8/Grand Prix. I previously owned a 2001 Grand Prix GTP (brand new) and loved it. I traded it in on the 2004 GTO (no regrets...only JOY) I have now (earlier this year). I need a car more for when I travel than when I cruise around town. If GM does come out with a new GTO that is tasty I would jump at it, I'm keeping my 2004 though.

[HORTENSE]

In a way I would love to see a new GTO in 2009 or 2010 but in a way I like the '04, '05 and '06 being the only newer GTO's in the last 30 years. It makes them seem more special IMO if GM doesn't bring back the name.

I guess overall I would prefer to see the Trans AM come back and leave the GTO alone.

What do you guys think?
i'm with you on this one. it's always been camaros vs. firebird trans am. the GTO has always been on it's own (i think). i really wouldn't want to see a v6 GTO mixed in with the v6 camaros.

just imagine there being a late model v6 corvette? now that's just plain silly! :bomb:

[QuickSilverTiger]

i'm with you on this one. it's always been camaros vs. firebird trans am. the GTO has always been on it's own (i think). i really wouldn't want to see a v6 GTO mixed in with the v6 camaros.

just imagine there being a late model v6 corvette? now that's just plain silly! :bomb:

I understand some people may want a Trans Am intially, but I believe that is what cut GM's sales of Pony Cars down. Ford only focused on the Mustang as their pony car and it outsold both Trans Am and Camaro. I say come out with the Camaro and let the chips fall where they may. As I have stated in other posts: Corvette is the Sports Car, GTO is the Muscle Car, and the Camaro is the Pony Car.

[dantheman]

as long as it isnt retro i want it to come back.

car companies need to come off this retro thing. i swear they are like a freakin fat girl. if they find something that catches someones attention they wont freakin quit until that person looks away.

[emg32]

If there is no new GTO, that will make the '04-06 models orphans. That would be a shame, since they don't deserve that sort of status. It would be nice if, in years to come, the '04-06 Goats are seen in the same way as the '64 model (start of a new breed), rather than in the same light as the last of the old Goats. That's my opinion as a distant observer and I wouldn't blame Goat owners for perhaps feeling different on the subject.

I see the 3 year GTO run more like the Impala run in the 90's and the Monte Carlo SS run GM did in the 80's. Those Impalas and Monte Carlo SS's are still greatly sought after.

I see our '04-'06 GTO's being like that in 5-10 years if GM doesn't bring the GTO name back.

[Ninjured]

any versions of a retro GTO i have seen makes me :barf:

by the time GM gets their camaro/GTO/firebird ready, this whole 'retro' fad will be gone and critics will say how lame it is and the design is so 'turn of the century'

IMO, GM would be uber stoopid to put a v6 in anything called a GTO. it contradicts the definition of GTO=big motor in smallish touring coupe; like HORTENSE eluded to, might as well put a v6 in a vette :drink:


I see the 3 year GTO run more like the Impala run in the 90's and the Monte Carlo SS run GM did in the 80's. Those Impalas and Monte Carlo SS's are still greatly sought after.

I see our '04-'06 GTO's being like that in 5-10 years if GM doesn't bring the GTO name back.
:mswerd:

[Big_J_NorCal]

As I have stated in other posts: Corvette is the Sports Car, GTO is the Muscle Car, and the Camaro is the Pony Car.

I couldn't have said it better!




I see the 3 year GTO run more like the Impala run in the 90's and the Monte Carlo SS run GM did in the 80's. Those Impalas and Monte Carlo SS's are still greatly sought after.

I see our '04-'06 GTO's being like that in 5-10 years if GM doesn't bring the GTO name back.

I believe that will happen as well. You forgot about the Grand National though, it was a new and unique performance car based on the Regal chasis. But now try to find one, they will continue to be coveted like the 90's Impala SS's. Very similar story to the 04-06 GTO's if GM doesn't bring it back. I had heard rumors for awhile that Buick had concept's made of the Grand national, it must have been killed.


Link
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0510phr_ 2008_buick_gnx_concept/

[GTOGreg]

I hope they bring it back,I will be ready to buy in a few years.

[tigeragogo]

I understand some people may want a Trans Am intially, but I believe that is what cut GM's sales of Pony Cars down. Ford only focused on the Mustang as their pony car and it outsold both Trans Am and Camaro. I say come out with the Camaro and let the chips fall where they may. As I have stated in other posts: Corvette is the Sports Car, GTO is the Muscle Car, and the Camaro is the Pony Car.
...and the Trans Am is the phony car.

[malcum]

I was hoping that Holden would design a similar car to rebadge here as the GTO again. Holden got it right the first time and only us GTO owners know that. Let the GTO remain a limited Holden import with the LSx engines and we'll always have a unique, well built car. The Camaro and firebird can be a US designed retro car that will sell like those awful mustangs. They'll be everywhere. I think that after the next round of imported GTO's they'll be accepted as true GTO's as old guys like me start to realize it's just the evolution of the car. Maybe even put Holden somewhere on the car.

This is fanciful thinking I know since any move like this would have to show a profit. But if GM is going to start handing out 100,000 mile warranties, a first year stateside built camaro will bankrupt them for sure.

[simpleGTO]

If they don't bring it back that's fine. Rare is a nice thing.
It's a Win Win. If they don't bring it back I have mine and if they do I'll have two.
simple

[QuickSilverTiger]

I believe the GTO will come back. The issue is styling. Lutz will have the final say so on that. I think that Lutz has learned that pushing an "outdated" platform was the wrong move. I believe his reasoning for our version of the GTO was to get the name back into our conscience, thereby having us draw on memories of what we remembered a GTO to be. Initially the styling was kind of bland, but adding a "true" duel exhaust appreance and hood scoops helped. I think this time the GTO will be done right. I don't think it will be retro, it will be fresh. There is an opportunity here, make the GTO fresh and exciting! Pontiac will continue to be Lutz's playground, and as long as 3 out of 4, or 4 out of 5 Pontiac products sale well Lutz will have his way.

I don't believe the Torrent will be a Pontiac very much longer it will shift to GMC, and the G5 may only see a limited run, and the Minivan will go away. I see the Solstice (Convertable and Coupe), G6 (various versions), GTO (Coupe and Convertable), and the G8/Grand Prix being the models for Pontiac. The Solstice and GTO will be niche vehicles and the G6 & G8/Grand Prix will be more for variety. The G5 and Cobalt are too similar, Colbalts have been selling very well, and G5's...well, just cut into the Colbalt numbers. GM needs to focus its attention on the Colbalt, that is a true "Rice Fighter". Very tunable and successful.

[RobertHammen]

I still suspect (no insider info) that the next GTO and Monaro are related, and will be built at the same factory (most likely in Oz, but who knows?). I also believe that GM will put a retro "nose" on the next GTO, but won't make the car all retro (like the Challenger).

We could be getting 20k+ G8's (it won't be a Grand Prix, Oshawa plant has exclusivity on that name) as early as next fall. Imagine 2-3 years of Commodore SS-V production imported as the G8 before a replacement gets up to speed at Oshawa on Zeta in 2009/2010. Holden then switches to sending us 10k-15k Monaro-based GTO's at that point, maybe some of the Sport Wagons and/or Utes as well.

It seems like the pieces of Pontiac's recovery program are coming together. Remember the rumors, from a couple of months back, of Pontiac going all RWD? I think that's a bit of a stretch, but I see the pieces coming together. The minivan is gone already, the Torrent becomes a GMC in 2008 or 2009, the Cobalt-based G5 is a stopgap until 2009/2010 and something new comes available.

2008 MY = G8, maybe no more torrent, plus a redesigned Vibe (Toyota). Around 2009/2010 it gets interesting. 2010 could yield a RWD Zeta from Oshawa (G8 replacement, or a true Grand Prix?). Presently the G6 is supposed to be redesigned on the Epsilon2 platform, but that may go to Buick (since Pontiac and Buick are now joined at the hip along with GMC). 2011 should yield a redesign of Kappa (Solstice/Sky/Opel GT) platforms, with the platform becoming more flexible and allowing RWD coupes, sedans, and wagons to come available. Look for Pontiac to get a few of these, turbo or supercharged 4-cylinder models, and for Holden to get these as a smaller RWD car line (Torana?) that they've been wishing for for a long time... but those will probably be built here, and sent back to Oz (giving those boats something to take back there after dropping off the GTO's/Utes/SportWagons here :-)

[ROKS ROKET]

Ok, lets see if any of what I'm going to say makes any sense.

When I got my first car (66 LeMans, Auto, 326 4bbl, headers, etc, etc) I wasn't up on Pontiacs. That was 1971, I was 16. And then I saw this completely done over Fire Engine Red sporty looking car with the shinny wheels and knew this was the car I wanted. The car cost $1000.00 and was the best birthday present I have ever got, up to that point in my measly life, lol. (see pic in link)

From that day forward I was hooked. A friend of mine had just got a 71 Goat, brand new, right off of the showroom floor, (so to speak) and that car was "Bad Ass". My car ended up getting stolen while at the race track a year and a half later. I then bought a 68 GTO, then a 69 GTO I bought with my brother. We rebuilt the engine, then my brother knew a guy that did carb and Blower work. To make a long story short, we blew the engine and our wad of $$$.....

Then in 96 I bought a New Trans Am w/T-tops, a 5.7L 8 Cylinder 285 hp engine and a bunch of other goodies. I traded that in for a 98 Grand Prix GTP, that eventually got me to the GTO.

Unfortunately the 04-06 run of GTO's are going to be known as Flops in the business and most of the public world. We as owners are in the minority and will always remember our 04-06 GTO's. Do I want to see a Reto GTO?Hmmmmmm......sure why not? Hey GM might surprise us, but then again............

ROK

[wrp]

I never believed that the demise of the 04-06 GTO had anything to do with styling, performance, or anything else. I always believed the restatement of earnings from key vendors like Dana and Sarbanes Oxley compliance issues put the boards of directors in a bind and abandoning the 04-06 run was a slick way out of it. The alternative is to believe they only planned a 3 year run from the outset, sort of a bait and switch deal.

I love my 04 GTO and I loved my 66 GTO. With the current condition of GM I hope there is no future GTO, or Pontiac, or Lutz for that matter. My concern is another GTO will compete with the Camaro which is already going to be at least one, maybe two years or more behind Ford and MOPAR, BMW, Mercedes, etal. in the technology arena as well as the public eye.

My concern is the formula has a potential for disaster and the end result will be no GM rear wheel drive V8 cars except the Corvette which only the very rich can afford. We will all be whizzing around in the Eco Tech junk which is 10-15 years behind currently competitive foreign cars and will probably be laughed at by Subaru and Mitsibushi consuming publics in the same manner Japanese cars were laughed at in the 50's. Where is the hot rod market for 50's era Datsuns? Even volkswagens from that era have a limited hot rod following.

I seriously believe a new GTO could be the end game for enthusiasts although we will be able to coast on out on the junkyards full of 5.7 hemis out of wrecked pickups for at least another 10-15 years after true GM performance for the average guy gets turned off. Just My Opinion and I really hope I am wrong.

[RobertHammen]

I always believed the restatement of earnings from key vendors like Dana and Sarbanes Oxley compliance issues put the boards of directors in a bind and abandoning the 04-06 run was a slick way out of it.

Not sure what you're trying to say, but the '04-'06 run was always planned to be three years. By 2007 we were supposed to get "Zeta" vehicles (as the Aussies have already with their VE Commodore). However, platform engineering and assembly issues between GMH and GMNA had caused delays until 2008/2009, and led to eventual cancellation of the original Zeta project. GM's GlobalRWD (informally called Zeta2) will take its place, but no one outside of GM knows if a GTO is part of that or not...

[bonequark]

The alternative is to believe they only planned a 3 year run from the outset, sort of a bait and switch deal.

Lutz, Pontiac and GM all said before the first 04 shipped that this was never going to be anything but a 3 year run due to financial/technical issues. Go look it up.

[City Goat]

There's pro's and con's to the GTO coming back, ultimately no matter what happens the Aussie Goats are going to become the bastard step childern of modern muscle cars.

Lutz, Pontiac and GM all said before the first 04 shipped that this was never going to be anything but a 3 year run due to financial/technical issues. Go look it up.
Yea seriously, don't make me go scan in a 3 year old car and driver! :judge:

[DallasSleeper]

I for one am hoping that it doesn't come back. I already plan on buying a new camaro when they come out. Preferably a SS with a LS7 (if they offer it). I dont like the idea of the GTO and the Camaro sharing the same platform. Call me a traditionalist but the Camaro and the T/A should share the same platform (remember the F body). I don't know the numbers but how many Cudas were ever built? I know they were rare (kinda like the current GTO) and look at what they are worth now.

[RobertHammen]

I already plan on buying a new camaro when they come out. Preferably a SS with a LS7 (if they offer it).

Nope, go read the "Saleen lets cat out of bag: Camaro to get 450hp LS3" thread I posted. No LS7, but maybe a s/c LS3 w>550 hp...

Also, there's the whole "Any Chevy can be an SS, only a Camaro can be a Z/28" argument...

[DallasSleeper]

Nope, go read the "Saleen lets cat out of bag: Camaro to get 450hp LS3" thread I posted. No LS7, but maybe a s/c LS3 w>550 hp...

Also, there's the whole "Any Chevy can be an SS, only a Camaro can be a Z/28" argument...


Where did you get your info, as of 2 weeks ago GM has made no announcment. Just because YOU posted something somewhere doesnt make it true. And you are right Chevy can badge anything as a SS, but there will only be one Camaro SS. And on the Camaro SS means something. Sorry about hijacking.

[QuickSilverTiger]

I know initially money was an issue, and don't kid yourself...GM is still coming out of the woods on this one. I think that when GM is in a better position financially, they will give us both the Camaro and GTO. Yes both will share a similar platform, but I don't think it will be the same dimensions.The GTO's wheelbase will be longer and wider than the Camaro, the Camaro will be close to the size of the Mustang. I believe the GTO will be a similar size to the Challenger, this will spark a rivalry.

[RobertHammen]

Where did you get your info, as of 2 weeks ago GM has made no announcment. Just because YOU posted something somewhere doesnt make it true.

I'm just reporting what people are saying elsewhere, don't shoot the messenger. Not only are all of the LS3 rumors coming out of GM from employees and suppliers (there's a thread on CorvetteForums.com confirming that the 2008 C6 will get the LS3), then you get Steve Saleen answering a Q&A like this:

http://ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112405

Don't believe me since it wasn't on a GM press release? Fine. Revisit this site in early 2009 and call me on it then, but all signs point that it's coming.

If you want to join in on innumerable Camaro Z/28 versus SS threads, go here:

http://web.camaross.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f= 60

[DallasSleeper]

Not shooting the messenger, I was just wondering where it came from. I suppose only time will tell. I am still keeping my fingers crossed. I personally hope that Chevy keeps it in house, maybe lets Callaway or SLP work with them, but not Saleen.

[wrp]

Not sure what you're trying to say, but the '04-'06 run was always planned to be three years. By 2007 we were supposed to get "Zeta" vehicles (as the Aussies have already with their VE Commodore). However, platform engineering and assembly issues between GMH and GMNA had caused delays until 2008/2009, and led to eventual cancellation of the original Zeta project. GM's GlobalRWD (informally called Zeta2) will take its place, but no one outside of GM knows if a GTO is part of that or not...What I am saying is that creation of a brand competition between the various GM divisions will cut into the sales of all of them at a time when the Challenger and the improving Mustangs all will have a jumpstart, I recommended to my granddaughter not to try to open a lemonade stand on the street when there were already two other successful ones operating, she seemed to understand the logic. She also figured that if she tried to sell two kinds of lemonade while competing against others with a single proven model then each would cut into the potential sales of the other and neither would do much to capture the already mature and respected brands that people had been buying for a year or more.

As to the current GTOs whatever the plans were, were not very apparent to the buying public in early 04 and the "flop" itself may have been no more than a way to distance the Corporation from a lot of exteraneous complications for instance the Dana fiasco. That may very well be the reason we saw nothing in 07 and don't really expect anything until what 10? Regardless the platform some of us had expected something in 07 that would represent a continued improvement of the design/end product. Since everyone has put their pencils down for a while we'll have to look elsewhere for 07/08 and maybe 09 for a new rwd car. Though we could just put our performance dollars in Eco Tech, or better yet superior offerings from Subaru/Mitsibishu.

I've got nearly 45,000 on my three year old GTO. If I want a rwd V8 I have the option to trade it on a 1 year old out of production 06 (which is a great car), a Mustang GT which will now keep up with many of the modded GTOs, or a MOPAR SRT8. I'd guess the question is will the new Camaro be a limited run car too?

Like I said, I hope I am wrong, but wouldn't be disappointed if the GTO got to RIP. Especially if the Camaro is intended to last, will be supported and marketed, and doesn't come out with a bunch of funky foreign standards that cripple the aftermarket. In the end, I am cheering for a GM rwd v8 powered automobile supported by a robust performance aftermarket.

[bonequark]

a Mustang GT which will now keep up with many of the modded GTOs, or a MOPAR SRT8......Like I said, I hope I am wrong,

A Stang GT keeping up with modded Goats? Yep, you are wrong!

[wrp]

A Stang GT keeping up with modded Goats? Yep, you are wrong!Go ahead and believe it if you want to, they thought the same thing about 04 GTOs in the early years before the serious modding began. The drag packs are putting those guys into the 12s, the 4.10s wake em up.

[bonequark]

The drag packs are putting those guys into the 12s, the 4.10s wake em up.

Hardly stock WRP and that's the way I read your first quote. I've never encountered a stock GT that could stay within 4-5 lengths of me. Once you start pumping in the bucks for mods, this argument becomes irrelevent.

[Longtaddy]

I think GTO is conceptually more in line with what Pontiac is trying to become than the 'bird. GM blew the marketing on the GTO this time around. It could have been brought over straight from Australia with all the cool equipment, the 19" wheels, the blue tooth hands free, the dash top gauges etc, etc. The car could have been sold as a poor man's M3. Instead they tried to position it to compete with the Mustang GT. As we know it is fundamemtally superior to the GT!!:burnout: :)

[GTO_Kroh]

actually its always been gto vs chevelle vs regal

[GoatChips]

I'm kind of on the fence with this one. It would be nice to have a niche car for the long haul, but at the rate guys are totalling their goats, it would suck to go weeks or months without seeing another brother on the road. As it is, I only see maybe one a week. Also, I hope the car itself is going to be running well into its twillight years. That's one reason I spent the extra money and went N/A and not F/I, hope to get a lot of years out of my AFR heads, etc.

[Fenderplayer]

A Stang GT keeping up with modded Goats? Yep, you are wrong!

thast not true....a stang can keep up w/ a modded goat if we spin our tires through 3rd :fawkdance

[wrp]

Hardly stock WRP and that's the way I read your first quote. I've never encountered a stock GT that could stay within 4-5 lengths of me. Once you start pumping in the bucks for mods, this argument becomes irrelevent.Your points are well taken. I was under the impression the drag packs were factory or dealer options. Yep they aren't stock but they are coming, more and more every day.

Normally, Lord knows I almost hate to see one pull up beside me nowdays cause they aren't even fun to race after a point. On the other hand I had the distinct impression that these recent modifications were an organizational effort on behalf of Ford to make them more competitive. You are right about the argument being irrelevant except the onset of FOMOCO supported enhancements is continuing this year and apparently will for a time when the GTO doesn't even exist. That's a lot of learning for them to get a freebee towards. Heck I got shouted down when I pointed out the SVT application of SCs was really a mod on the Cobras. I'm not competent enough to really make a case out of it, just that with a heavily modded GTO I've had at least one out of several hundred impress me.

[LS7-GTO Judge]

This says it all Bye Bye Mustangs. Rip :) http://videos.streetfire.net/video/f...97016876f5. htm
Even if they never bring back the GTO you know they are going to have more RWD cars for this baby to go into :). I kinda hope they don't just give us some more aftermarket items to play with. The new LSX block is an amazing start.

[GTOGRRRR]

no...dont bring it back.....i like not seeing them on every corner....we are in an "exclusive" club...haha