Trans Am or GTO, which would you prefer?

[QuickSilverTiger]

I would like to take the post "Who hopes they don't bring back the GTO?"
By emg32 further.

If you had a choice, and both cars came out with awesome designs, who would rather have a Trans Am or GTO? I have always loved the GTO, so my choice would be a GTO.

[BanditWS6]

I have to admit I'd choose the Trans Am. I've loved that car since I can remember knowing what cars were. It's just in the blood.

[tsan]

I kinda like the idea of having the GTO as a upscale muscle car and the Trans am as a less expensive Mustang fighter. Pontiac is supposed to be the performance division of GM it's about time they started acting like it. Make em both. And if they're worried about taking sales competion with the new Camaro make them different enough and they wont have to worry about any of that.

:banghead:

[RobertHammen]

Camaro is the Mustang fighter. GTO is the economical BMW/Infiniti fighter, with performance.

Why invest $$$ to make a Camaro and a Firebird (GM would probably never pay to use the Trans Am name again), which both go after the same market, when they could use the $$$ to make ONE competitor better (like Ford does with the Mustang)?

[BanditWS6]

I agree there is no business case for the Firebird whatsoever, and that the Trans Am nameplate is never coming back for cost reasons.

Still, in a perfect world... :D

[BRN2ROLL]

I agree with TSAN ^^^. I have the Goat and love it and would love to have a newer TA to go with it to have the experience of and different setups of both cars.

[GMLIFER]

I would get the T/A, love the GTO, but with an interior upgrade and a solid rear axle the T/A would be the way to go for me.

[why2kmax]

depends on what they looked like and what they ended up being. I could give a rats butt what name is on it.

[06black6spd]

I agree w tsan, Pontiac is GM's performance division and should have both. Will the market support both? I am a complete pontiac freak!! and would love to see both in the pontiac line up. Rear wheel drive should be for all pontiacs vehicles and a ls2.

[Ironmancan]

Depends on which is nicer. My days of a live axle inexpensive car are over. I want it all comfort, power and quality inside and out. Make it cheap and I'll go elsewhere.

[QuickSilverTiger]

Depends on which is nicer. My days of a live axle inexpensive car are over. I want it all comfort, power and quality inside and out. Make it cheap and I'll go elsewhere.

You make an interesting point, the nicer car would I think depends on the individual. For example: some would prefer an interior that wraps around you, and some would prefer an interior that is a little less restrictive.

To me I think GM is in a position where they have to choose one or the other. I think what may happen is: GM reviews how well the Camaro is selling, introduces a "new" version of the G8/Grand Prix. While sales go on, they check the sales numbers on the Camaro and Grand Prix platform. If all goes well, they then re-introduce the GTO, see how well it sells. If the GTO stays with steady or increased sales they stick with it, if not then they bring back the TA.

I know it sounds like what just happened (04-06 GTO), but GM was in a bad situation financially. GM is now more comfortable and can explore its options. If they bring back the GTO they will be watching sales very closely. When we got the latest version of the GTO the press had a field day with it because Holden was ending the Monaro run, so in essence we got what was left which means the platform sold to us was nothing new. If GM does bring back the GTO, it needs to be on-line with what Holden is selling in Australia.
What the Commodore is to Australia, the Grand Prix/G8 would be to America. What the Monaro is to Australia, the GTO would be to America.

All models would be platform sharing. It is the way to go, no more do we have "American only". If you don't believe me, then the next time you have a chance go to a Ford dealership and check where the Mustang Transmission was manufactured... you'll see "IN FRANCE".

[win]

There is too much low life baggage associated with the Trans Am name - it would be crazy to revive that.

In fact, after seeing all of the vitriol of the old GTO club, I think I would just call the car what it is: a Pontiac Monaro.

Whatever they call it, I will want no part of it if it is retro styled.

[bonequark]

Trans Am is dead. Please try to deal with this fact of life.

[The Black Phantom]

Trans Am is dead. Please try to deal with this fact of life.

+1 :thumbs: I owned two Firebirds and a Trans Am, and I agree that Pontiac does not need a clone of the Camaro. The TA is dead, long live the GTO! :driving:

[3timegoatowner]

I agree w tsan, Pontiac is GM's performance division and should have both. Will the market support both? I am a complete pontiac freak!! and would love to see both in the pontiac line up. Rear wheel drive should be for all pontiacs vehicles and a ls2.



Would the market support the GTO after the disappointment of this version? I would say T/A

[3timegoatowner]

+1 :thumbs: I owned two Firebirds and a Trans Am, and I agree that Pontiac does not need a clone of the Camaro. The TA is dead, long live the GTO! :driving:


The GTO, if it comes back, will be based on the Camaro platform. Therefore I say no GTO. I don't think they would do any better than this time. Too many people already have a bad perception about the GTO and everyone is awaiting the new Camaro

[3timegoatowner]

Trans Am is dead. Please try to deal with this fact of life.


I would put money down that the GTO is also dead.

[QuickSilverTiger]

I have to disagree. I think GM needs an intermediate car, Camaro suits the $22-28K tastes, Corvette suits the taste $48K+, and GTO suits the $30-38K tastes. Those three cars can not only compete, but in the case of Grand Rolex...DOMINATE!

I don't believe the TA will ever come back. GTO is more along the line of the Monaro, GM will continue that route.

[Goat Lover]

Ever since i was little my dad told me storries about how his favorite car was the GTO and how he came close to buying one on one occation and one on another... since then i have always had soemthing for the GTO and wanted one to compleate that dream my dad had of having one.
... then my dad came close to buying a 94-96 Impala SS... Those things are bitchin...

The Trans Am has enticed my eyes ever since i saw Smokey and the Bandit and then even more since i saw the hellish meanest most demonish car ever, the 98-02 WS6... Always loved that body style... then i saw the VFN fiberglass 4in' ram air hood on a t/a w/ Wings West front ground effects... that was when i completely fell in love with Trans ams

So now i have 3 cars that i am in love with. the 98-02 WS6, the 94-96 Impala SS, and the 04-06 GTO

Now i will say this, of the two cars in question, my decesion is a close one... The trans am has had it's day and i think it should take a break or atleast replace the solstice later on if it makes a comeback...
The GTO is my choice and the tourch should be its to hold and should not be passed back to the trans am

[RobertHammen]

The GTO, if it comes back, will be based on the Camaro.

Ummm... no. If built here, it MAY be based on the same chassis that will spawn the Camaro, the forthcoming big RWD Impala, and an even bigger Buick. Zeta is very stretch-able, so a GMNA-constructed GTO would be related to, but not the same as, the Camaro.

I still think it's more likely, if we're going to get a GTO, that it would be built in Oz again, alongside their new Monaro... but what do I know. We'll see if anything happens in the auto show season.

Be aware Caddy is getting a coupe version of the next CTS... might start to hit into the GTO's market space, at least on the top end...

[3timegoatowner]

Ummm... no. If built here, it MAY be based on the same chassis that will spawn the Camaro, the forthcoming big RWD Impala, and an even bigger Buick. Zeta is very stretch-able, so a GMNA-constructed GTO would be related to, but not the same as, the Camaro.

I still think it's more likely, if we're going to get a GTO, that it would be built in Oz again, alongside their new Monaro... but what do I know. We'll see if anything happens in the auto show season.

Be aware Caddy is getting a coupe version of the next CTS... might start to hit into the GTO's market space, at least on the top end...


Everything I've read says GTO would be built in Canada same as Camaro. BUT, at this point everything is speculation. If they were to build in Oz again GM gets the same results in sales and probably a little worse.

[3timegoatowner]

I have to disagree. I think GM needs an intermediate car, Camaro suits the $22-28K tastes, Corvette suits the taste $48K+, and GTO suits the $30-38K tastes. Those three cars can not only compete, but in the case of Grand Rolex...DOMINATE!

I don't believe the TA will ever come back. GTO is more along the line of the Monaro, GM will continue that route.


GTO will never be able to compete with the Vette or Camaro( in sales not power ). Everyone is awaiting the release of the Camaro but mostly current GTO owners only wish for a re-release of the GTO.

[bonequark]

I would put money down that the GTO is also dead.

Hey, don't argue with me. Bob Lutz was the questionable authority that said the GTO would return after 2009 and that the Trans Am's day was dead and gone. Throw your poker chips at Mr. Lutz if you must.

[HUMBLER]

I'm gonna have to say GTO because I'm bald and wouldn't be able to grow a mullett to suffice the return of the T/A...

[BanditWS6]

The ironic thing is that the Trans Am in the mid to late '70s was sorta joked about by the guys at PMD as being the "second chance at a GTO" for the young buyers who weren't old enough during the goat's heyday.

If the goat itself is back, and the Camaro too, there's really no need for a Firebird. It just sucks for us Firebird guys because we always liked the 'Bird better than the Camaro.

The current GTO also fits in more with Pontiac's attempt (whether misguided or not) to be the somewhat more upmarket performance division.

For the record I'm also quite pissed at the mullety goodness that's ruined the image of the T/A for everyone...

[Letchworth40]

i would choose a T/A over a GTO.

[BostonF4$]

There will definately be a camaro in the near future, there is plenty of press about it and GM is not shy at showing it around. I highly doubt there will be either a firebird/trans am or a GTO...

GTO sales blow. Why build a t/a or whatever when chevy will have the camaro and the corvette and the monte carlo and the cobalt (the performance variations that is) to soak up the sports car segment. What do you mean pontiac needs to live up to their "performance rep", come on maybe back in the day all they've every had was the firebird in recent years and those sales sucked too and they dropped it. The grand prix/grand am are fleet cars for christ's sakes! performance nameplate...pfftsshssh The GTP late 90's grand prix they made was OK as far as performance goes, but I mean it had a HARDLY unique 3.8 supercharged engine and FWD and no stick.

I dunno, I'm with you guys I like performance cars but I just don't see pontiac making the GTO again or the "trans am" in the near future.

[tsan]

According to Canada's the Globe and Mail GM is also expected to announce details of how it will revamp the Oshawa facility to produce up to 500,000 rear-wheel-drive Zeta platform vehicles per year, the newspaper's sources said. General Motors is widely expected to built a new Chevy Impala and Monte Carlo on the platform, as well as a new Buick sedan and Cadillac DTS. GM's Bob Lutz has also said there are plans for a new GTO on the Zeta platform, but that vehicle could be built in Australia alongside a possible rear-wheel-drive Pontiac Grand Prix.

In the September 25th episode of syndicated automotive radio program Cruise Control Radio, co-host Les Jackson claims to have seen a photo of the production version of the new Chevrolet Camaro. He claims to have spoken with GM engineer Dr. Terry Woychowski on Sunday at a press event, who showed him a photograph of the production car.

"It looks terrific," Jackson said. He claims the photo he saw looked "even better" than the concept vehicle show earlier this year. While this subjective assessment doesn't tell us much, it's safe to assume GM officials really meant it when they said the production car would be nearly identical to the concept.

Jackson also claims Dr. Woychowski told him GM was "in a real rush to get it out the door," and "don't be surprised if it's by this time next year." General Motors has officially stated the new Camaro will go on sale in the first quarter of 2009. Woychowski comments seem to suggest that date could in fact come at least 12 months earlier than expected.

-As reported in LLN.

So Im pretty optimistic about a new GOAT in the near future.

[txbatman]

Ummm... no. If built here, it MAY be based on the same chassis that will spawn the Camaro, the forthcoming big RWD Impala, and an even bigger Buick. Zeta is very stretch-able, so a GMNA-constructed GTO would be related to, but not the same as, the Camaro.

I still think it's more likely, if we're going to get a GTO, that it would be built in Oz again, alongside their new Monaro... but what do I know. We'll see if anything happens in the auto show season.

Be aware Caddy is getting a coupe version of the next CTS... might start to hit into the GTO's market space, at least on the top end...

+1 You guys need to quit living in the 70's. T/A's were something of a joke to everyone else, and like Groucho said in another thread, I dont want to see a 500# Burt Reynolds in bell bottom pants selling a new one, or the Gold chain crowd getting excited over a Screaming Chicken on the hood. And like others have commented. GM is not going to pay for every Trans Am they sell for the name.

This platform is extremely adaptable, so dont count on it being build on the camaro. Doesnt fit with GM strategy. Pontiac needs the RWD coupe, but as a BMW fighter, not the Italian stallion mobile. If Holden gets its way and the VE becomes the Grand Prix, then there will probably be a 2 door coupe version as the GTO. If its not in NY in January 2007, then it probably is dead.

[cjk]

Pontiac has a performance reputation? No offense, but that depends how old you are. I'm early 30s just for reference. Recently IMHO, other than the imported GTO and the Solstice GXP, uhhh, not what I'd call performance anywhere. When I think if Pontiac, I think "boring fwd stuff" with the sole exception of Firebirds which were viciously cool in a straight line.

I sincerely don't get how people consider Pontiac anywhere near a BMW fighter. I have to question if any of those folks have driven a fwd Pontiac and a BMW in the same day. Honestly, who really shops a 330i vs a GrandAm? The GTO is the ONLY thing that comes close (and it comes quite close IMHO).

You wouldn't know Pontiac had a performance reputation by looking on their lots. The ONLY thing that got me on the lot was the GTO. I LOVE my GTO. I think it's fantastic. It could have been branded a Chevy and named Chevette SS and I still would have bought it. Furthermore, I would have actually preferred it be branded a Chevy. There are lots more Chevy dealers out there.

[MotorheadMike]

I've owned multiple versions of both. My first car was a '78 Trans Am, and my second car was a '68 GTO. For some reason, I've always liked the GTO's better.

BTW, were cinder blocks a factory option on Trans Am's? :gr_jest:

[BanditWS6]

Did I say Pontiac currently has a performance reputation? I certainly hope not, because they don't, not anymore. They do, however, like to walk around all day proclaiming that they're the performance division, and if they want to wear that hat and continue to exist then it's my opinion that they better start acting like it, otherwise GM doesn't need them to exist any more than any of us needs a third foot.

The domestic introduction of the VE Commodore and the return of the GTO would be steps in the right direction. The G5, by contrast, is at least one step backwards, but that's another story entirely.

[QuickSilverTiger]

GTO will never be able to compete with the Vette or Camaro( in sales not power ). Everyone is awaiting the release of the Camaro but mostly current GTO owners only wish for a re-release of the GTO.

I think you misunderstood the message. I was mearly pointing out that...for the money, GM will be able to offer top-notch products that can appeal to a variety of groups. Each car (Corvette, GTO, and Camaro) has a loyal following. Just imagine, if GM offers the Corvette, GTO, and Camaro at competitive prices, there will be plenty of GM products on the road.

Caddy's will continue to inprove quality and go up in price. People will start to look at Caddy's and say..."Wow, that's a little too rich for my blood". Caddy's will be priced higher than BMW's. So what's a person to do? BUY A PONTIAC!

If GM is able to put a top-notch product on the street to compete with BMW, Audi, etc...and do it so the average working person can afford it, that will be good...especially when everyone has confidence in the product on the street.

[mooninitesunite]

I kinda like the idea of having the GTO as a upscale muscle car and the Trans am as a less expensive Mustang fighter. Pontiac is supposed to be the performance division of GM it's about time they started acting like it. Make em both. And if they're worried about taking sales competion with the new Camaro make them different enough and they wont have to worry about any of that.

:banghead:

exactly. :mswerd:

[cjk]

Caddy's will continue to inprove quality and go up in price. People will start to look at Caddy's and say..."Wow, that's a little too rich for my blood". Caddy's will be priced higher than BMW's. So what's a person to do? BUY A PONTIAC!


Say what? You're saying that if a Cadillac is priced higher than a BMW then people will buy Pontiacs? I totally don't get your reasoning. That certainly wouldn't make ME buy a Pontiac.


If GM is able to put a top-notch product on the street to compete with BMW, Audi, etc...and do it so the average working person can afford it, that will be good...especially when everyone has confidence in the product on the street.

That's a super big "IF"

A new Camaro or Firebird certainly will not be it. The new whatever-it-gets-called-over-here Commodore might if it is inexpensive enough. It will have to be cheaper than a 328 and out accellerate a 335. Too bad you can't get a BMW with an LSx engine. :(

[GTOGreg]

I would buy the GTO!

[Goat Lover]

i would choose a T/A over a GTO.
Sorry, mullet heads' votes dont count :drink:

[tigeragogo]

Why not cross a Camaro with a Monaro and call it a Mamaro?

[QuickSilverTiger]

Say what? You're saying that if a Cadillac is priced higher than a BMW then people will buy Pontiacs? I totally don't get your reasoning. That certainly wouldn't make ME buy a Pontiac.

My reasoning is: Caddy will be higher priced than BMW, but the Pontiac line will be very close to the quality BMW's 3's and 5 series cars are. Toss in a competitive price and people will look at Pontiac. Caddy is going after the "Benchmark" status it had back in the day. It only makes sense that Pontiac handle the lower end luxery models. The other thing to keep in mind is: Chrysler has sold 300's very successfully, Pontiac when handled right will take it's place...not just the Sedan segment, but overall.


That's a super big "IF"

A new Camaro or Firebird certainly will not be it. The new whatever-it-gets-called-over-here Commodore might if it is inexpensive enough. It will have to be cheaper than a 328 and out accellerate a 335. Too bad you can't get a BMW with an LSx engine. :(

BMW's are nice, but I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the new products. Just give GM a chance.

[rlsedition]

Who knows what GM will actually do with these cars, but it sure seems to make business/market sense to do a Camaro at the low end, a GTO in the middle and a Corvette as the top performance machine. Camaros with V6s, V8s and a short wheelbase resulting in a marginal rear seat area, the GTO (and Monaros) with V8s only, more wheelbase than Camaro and a real 2+2 seating arrangement and the Corvette with V8s and a 2-seater.

This probably makes too much sense to happen.

[RobertHammen]

Some of the "insiders" over at CamaroZ28.com's message boards seem to think, with a forthcoming Caddy coupe (CTS?), that there is no room in the market for a RWD V-8 coupe for Pontiac. Wondering what you thought about that, Roger - I think a Caddy coupe is gonna be $40+k, with the V8-Camaro starting in the $26-$30k range, leaving a nice void from $30-$35k for a GTO (and a Monaro in Oz)...

[bonequark]

The new whatever-it-gets-called-over-here Commodore might if it is inexpensive enough. It will have to be cheaper than a 328 and out accellerate a 335. Too bad you can't get a BMW with an LSx engine.


Have you ever owned one of those overpriced pieces of teutonic crap? The two BMWs I owned were the some of the least reliable, moderately powered tin cans in thw world. Thank God the Aussies didn't look to BMW for ANY of their design and engineering work. The GTO is much faster and FAR more comfortable to drive long distances than anything short of a 7-series.

[LSX Performance]

No question I'd rather have a GTO over Trans Am.

Trans Am = Pony Car

GTO = Muscle Car :turbonaug

[QuickSilverTiger]

Robert your right, if GM leaves a $30-38K void they will regret it. Caddy's are nice, and I had a chance to get a 2005 STS (V6 version) at Carmax, but when I saw the 2004 GTO in Quick Silver Metallic (I have a 1:18 scale diecast of the same car I bought a couple of years earlier), I couldn't help myself...and I got a great deal to boot. I have now been driving my GTO for a few months now, and have not regreted it one bit. If I have a choice of financing a $28K Z28 (2009) or financing a $40+K Caddy, I will go for the Camaro. I love what Caddy has done, but my heart belongs to Muscle!:gears:

[rlsedition]

Robert,

I, like you, see a "hole" in the marketplace where a new GTO could fit nicely in size/price/performance. A CTS coupe will be too expensive (heck, the sedan is already). It all depends on what GM does to fill Oshawa #2 (the Camaro alone is not enough volume).

[Dan00Hawk]

Doesn't matter what name is on the badge, GTO, TransAm, or even Pontiac or Chevy. Although I have two Pontiacs, I'm not brand loyal enough to not consider other vehicles.

[noob]

I chose both.

[tsan]

In an interview with Australia's Age newspaper, GM designer Michael Simcoe said there will be another Holden Monaro "eventually, but it won't be here in the next six months or year or so." The last Monaro was recently discontinued alongside the Pontiac GTO. The GTO, was, of course, a rebadged version of the Holden coupe.

Mr. Simcoe said the next Monaro will be rebadged in a similar manner. "We'd want to find a sister vehicle to give us some volumes so that you could do the job properly."

While Simcoe didn't say if that car would be the GTO, it seems like the most likely scenario. He said the new Monaro is not currently under development, which means it's very unlikely it will be a clone of the production Camaro, which is already believed to be deep into development.

While the idea of the Monaro and GTO being twins again may irk GM enthusiasts, the act of badge-engineering was not what most analysts feel led to the downfall of the GTO. Rather, common wisdom is that the car's styling was insufficient in the first place.

Recent rumors have suggested the next GTO will have similar levels of aggressiveness to the 1999 GTO Concept. If true, this would likely mean an American design will be imported to Australia — the reverse of what happened with the Monaro and GTO.

In March, GM Vice Chariman confirmed the GTO program was a go. He told AutoWeek the new GTO project was only on hold for two months, but had since been revived. While no timeframe was given, most enthusiasts expect the new model in 2009 or 2010. - LLN

So while I know that nothing is ever set in stone and things can always change at the last moment all reports that I have come across have Mr. Bob Lutz confirming the Camaro, Caddy CTS coupe and DTS, G8, Monte Carlo, Impala, and a unknown Buick...

KILL THE BIRD AND FEED IT TO THE GOAT!

[HotRodGuy]

Name means absolutely nothing to me, hell they could call it a 'rainbow' and as long as it met my needs, i'd buy it

[dezinerGTO]

GTO all the way.

[CaliGTO]

trans am FTW!!

I honestly dont want to see another GTO produced for another 30 years. Makes ours even more rare.

[FraggerCrue]

It would be fine with me if they didn't bring back either name. I'm not tied to a name, I'm interested in performance, build quality, features maybe, but not a name. I've always thought they would have been better off bringing the car over as a Monaro. They didn't have to change anything; I could have even gone for right-hand drive.

When they came out with the CTS-V and the SSR, no one complained that they didn't look like the original.

[Pont3]

Keep in mind that when the current GTO was announced, it was slated for a three model year run. Still, people forgot that fact and blamed its discontinuance on slow sales. At the time of that same announcement, it was stated that an all-new ground up U.S. designed model would be forthcoming. So the next gen GTO IS coming. I, too, prefer the GTO over a Camaro or Firebird. But I'm happy to see any or all of them.

[Adam4356]

I prefer the GTO. I like a little more size, little more content. Let chevy have the camaro and do it right.

[06gtobuyer]

If Pontiac builds this car, I WILL buy one, maybe selling the GTO for it. This car is beautiful.

Sorry, I don't know how to display the pic in a message.

[RobertHammen]

At the time of that same announcement, it was stated that an all-new ground up U.S. designed model would be forthcoming. So the next gen GTO IS coming.

Well, that was GMX282, the next-gen "Zeta" GTO, which was cancelled back in March of 2005. If the program has been revised (Lutz and co. have made lots of noise about a next-gen GTO), it's been very quiet. It's my opinion that, if there is a next-gen, and we don't see it at one of the auto shows next year, it's not coming for a long time, if ever.

If Pontiac builds this car, I WILL buy one, maybe selling the GTO for it. This car is beautiful.

That is NOT a GM concept, just a Camaro that someone Photoshopped into being a TA. I highly, highly doubt there will be a nose-and-tail rebadge of a Camaro into a Firebird (and I also doubt GM is going to pay to use the Trans Am name ever again)...

[06gtobuyer]

Photoshop, artists drawing or whatever, I LOVE IT.

The new Camaro is one of the UGLIEST cars I have seen. I would not be caught dead driving one. I'd grab a new Challenger or a WRX STI before the new Camaro.

[11 Bravo]

Some of the "insiders" over at CamaroZ28.com's message boards seem to think, with a forthcoming Caddy coupe (CTS?), that there is no room in the market for a RWD V-8 coupe for Pontiac.

Scott whoever (fbodfather) at GM posted over there. He said there will be no firebird, since GM has a smaller share of the market than they used to. So they can't have two models that will overlap. There will be a GTO on the camaro platform, but it will be larger than the f-bod and seat 4 adults to target different buyers. He said there is a place for a rwd V8 at Pontiac, just not a firebird.

[IDNTWN2]

Pontiac has a performance reputation? No offense, but that depends how old you are. I'm early 30s just for reference. Recently IMHO, other than the imported GTO and the Solstice GXP, uhhh, not what I'd call performance anywhere. When I think if Pontiac, I think "boring fwd stuff" with the sole exception of Firebirds which were viciously cool in a straight line.

I sincerely don't get how people consider Pontiac anywhere near a BMW fighter. I have to question if any of those folks have driven a fwd Pontiac and a BMW in the same day. Honestly, who really shops a 330i vs a GrandAm? The GTO is the ONLY thing that comes close (and it comes quite close IMHO).

You wouldn't know Pontiac had a performance reputation by looking on their lots. The ONLY thing that got me on the lot was the GTO. I LOVE my GTO. I think it's fantastic. It could have been branded a Chevy and named Chevette SS and I still would have bought it. Furthermore, I would have actually preferred it be branded a Chevy. There are lots more Chevy dealers out there.

+1. The saddest part is that GM COULD make Pontiac the BMW of GM. They damn near did it with the GTO. The public told them no this time around, but if they keep it up and build a line of product that meets the quality level of BMW (both perceived and real), things could get real interesting.

Chevrolet - Leave it alone
Buick - Hmmm. No clue about what to do with this brand today. Might explore a Honda approach
Pontiac - see above
GMC - Oldsmobile it.
Cadillac - Return to the "standard of the world" Limited production World class luxury cars with performance to match. Think Duesenberg/Cord/Auburn (What the hell is the Escalade??????)
Hummer - Well that's just wierd
Saab - Harvest it.

[QuickSilverTiger]

+1. The saddest part is that GM COULD make Pontiac the BMW of GM. They damn near did it with the GTO. The public told them no this time around, but if they keep it up and build a line of product that meets the quality level of BMW (both perceived and real), things could get real interesting.

Chevrolet - Leave it alone
Buick - Hmmm. No clue about what to do with this brand today. Might explore a Honda approach
Pontiac - see above
GMC - Oldsmobile it.
Cadillac - Return to the "standard of the world" Limited production World class luxury cars with performance to match. Think Duesenberg/Cord/Auburn (What the hell is the Escalade??????)
Hummer - Well that's just wierd
Saab - Harvest it.


I agree GM needs Pontiac to be that option for the enthuiest. Pontiac doesn't need to be Posh or Frue-Frue like the BMW (more electronics than you know what to do with), but pure driving enjoyment. For most, all the enthusiest wants is to: "get in, sit down, turn the key, rev the engine, hammer the gas pedal and hang on", not take all day configuring their car. Take that feeling and expand on it with the Pontiac line, put pride back into performance and you will be successful. Quality, fit, and finish are a must. If however, people want a ton of gizmoes they should be able to order them. I think many people think along the same line as I do, I wanted XM Satillite Radio, so I went out to Walmart and picked up a receiver for $52.00 and pay $12.00 a month. I am pleased. If a person wants GPS they can get one at a Best Buy or where ever. I do believe "Onstar" is a solid investment, I had it in my 2001 Grand Prix GTP and would enjoy it again in the next Pontiac model I'll have (G8 possibly if the GTO doesn't come back). GM said they will have Onstar as an option for all their models starting with the 2007 line up.

[CI_LS1]

Just make the GTO the 6.2l coupe version of the G8 sedan. Problem solved. GTO was just an option package on the Tempest, anyway. Yeah, I know I'm not the first to point that out, we need a dead horse :judge: smiley.

And watch what you ask for, people who think the current GTO is too bland. This is the Aztec :barf: division, too. They couldn't have fired all the designers.

[bonequark]

It's my opinion that, if there is a next-gen, and we don't see it at one of the auto shows next year, it's not coming for a long time, if ever.


Robert, consider the very real fact that Lutz and GM will not do anything that tales away any thunder from the Camaro unveiling. You will likely not see any other performance vehicle this winter from GM until the Camaro splash is complete. That doesn't mean the GTO is not right there in the background waiting to be unleashed. That will be saved for next year's shows so GM can dominate the hot stove league for two years in a row. And yes, they will unveil something else the year after to keep the pressure and perception and chattering classes busy for some time to come.

[tsan]

Damn good point bonequark!

[omologato]

GTO hands down. BTW GTO is winning this discussion.

Wonder how the TA vs GTO match up is going over at the F car forums.

[omologato]

Just make the GTO the 6.2l coupe version of the G8 sedan. Problem solved. GTO was just an option package on the Tempest, anyway. Yeah, I know I'm not the first to point that out, we need a dead horse :judge: smiley.

And watch what you ask for, people who think the current GTO is too bland. This is the Aztec :barf: division, too. They couldn't have fired all the designers.

...but two of the engineering managers that championed the aztec did move out/on.:turbonaug

[RobertHammen]

...but two of the engineering managers that championed the aztec did move out/on.:turbonaug

Along with "Resume'" Ron Zarella, who claimed he had an MBA that he didn't have... he was the P&G guy who championed the whole "Brand (mis)Management" philosophy at GM, and screwed up product development for years...

http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~opportun/issues/2002-2003/issue05/03_bausch.htm

[LS2GTO]

If Pontiac builds this car, I WILL buy one, maybe selling the GTO for it. This car is beautiful.

Sorry, I don't know how to display the pic in a message.

That design is beautiful but I say loose the flaming chicken and maybe go with a stripe like the 69's or 70 Trans Am and you've got a winner in my book. I'd keep the GTO because of its creature comforts. The T/A would only be my weekend 'boy racer' car to do battle with its arch rival the Mustang. There's too much heritage in the name to just drop it. Plus it can be built along side the Camaro with little alteration. Just my 2 cents!

[omologato]

Along with "Resume'" Ron Zarella, who claimed he had an MBA that he didn't have... he was the P&G guy who championed the whole "Brand (mis)Management" philosophy at GM, and screwed up product development for years...

http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~opportun/issues/2002-2003/issue05/03_bausch.htm


Ed zackary. It was a straw grasping effort by Ronnie at best to change the corporate perception of how to project the image and marketing style that works for appliance companies.

Care to by a kenmore Aveo