Top Ten Combat Rifles

[ruski]

http://military.discovery.com/convergence/topten/r ifles/slideshow/slideshow_10.html

[Fastmofo]

Nice historical find. Out of curiousity, can one purchase an AK(semi, duh) without any special ffl lic, and how much do they cost? Thanks.

[ruski]

Nice historical find. Out of curiousity, can one purchase an AK(semi, duh) without any special ffl lic, and how much do they cost? Thanks.


$400 and up, I see a ton of them at the Fort Lauderdale gun show. Also there are some places online that sell them.

[SICKS.OH]

Nice historical find. Out of curiousity, can one purchase an AK(semi, duh) without any special ffl lic, and how much do they cost? Thanks.



don't think you can in NY :shiner:

[gr8fully]

didn't see the BAR, kind of surprised, love the m14 though,

[Drachen]

Nice to see the Steyr Aug on that list =p.

[Scurvy]

My friend who's a gun nut was very upset with the list because of the emphasis on service history. He thinks the AUG should have been much higher and that the M14 and the M1 shoulda have been matched together like the AK47/74

[phutty2000]

I agree that the AK-47 deserved to have the top spot however, I disagree with the M-16 being higher than the M1 Garand.

7.62>5.56

[Scurvy]

Been reading up on the 6.5 Grendel round. best of both words FTW

[bnvus]

didn't see the BAR, kind of surprised, love the m14 though,


Yeah what gives? The BAR was (still is) a bad ass rifle.

[Morpheus]

M1 Garand should be #2 and IMO, the STG44 shouldn't even be on the list because it was so limited in numbers.

[Grave]

Nice historical find. Out of curiousity, can one purchase an AK(semi, duh) without any special ffl lic, and how much do they cost? Thanks.

I bought my SAR-1 (Romanian AK, semi auto) for $375 new... and that also included 2 30 round mags and 1,000 rounds of ammo.

Bought it in Louisiana.

When I bought mine, all I had to do is provide my SSN, which the dealer used to call the ATF. SSN checked out good, I filled out some paperwork and I was out the door with the gun/ammo in 20 minutes.

I agree that the AK-47 deserved to have the top spot however, I disagree with the M-16 being higher than the M1 Garand.

7.62>5.56

The AK-47 definately deserves the top spot. M-16's are POS. They shouldn't be on the top 10 IMHO. I hate them. They always jam and are so sensitive to dust/sand. The M1 is a bad ass gun and should of been ranked higher.

The M-14 could of been a little higher, too.

[in_burrito]

M-16's are POS. They shouldn't be on the top 10 IMHO. I hate them. They always jam and are so sensitive to dust/sand.


What is your experience with the M16? Military? Vietnam? Iraq 1? Iraq 2?

[Grave]

What is your experience with the M16? Military? Vietnam? Iraq 1? Iraq 2?

Well, I have to qualify with it once a year (military). And we use them for ECS training out in the field. Other than that... Air Force guys don't handle them that often, unless you're Security Forces or in the desert.

On occasion I got to shoot my friends M-16 for recreation when we'd go target shooting together.

I have to go off of my personal experiences with the gun. It always jammed. Maybe I just have bad luck with it, but it's not the gun for me. It's accurate though, I'll give it that. I've gotten some nice groupings with it in the past.

[in_burrito]

What is "best" really depends on what parameters you use. Also, what is best for the military applications may or may not be best for home use.

I don't really object to the M16 coming in underneath the AK, since the M16 takes more of a rifleman to use and the AK can (and is) used by every idiot nation that up until 20 minutes ago was still chucking rocks and wood at each other.

As for some of the other participants...

I think the FAL should have ranked higher than it did. Quite frankly I would have put it third. It is everything the AK is with a more effective round, but it's a bit more expensive to produce. The only reason the US went with the M14 vs. the FAL was politics. At least the FAL is ranked higher than the M14 on the list.

I think that the Aug is a tough one to call. While it has some nice engineering it's a total pain in the ass to actually use to fight with. You can't alternate shoulders, mag changes are ridiculously slow (albeit WAY faster than the AK) and the manual of arms is so different from anything else that it's difficult to cross train. Engineering marvel? hell yes. Great battle rifle? Hell no.

If the Sturmgewehr had been around at the beginning of the war, things might have turned out quite differently. At the bare minimum the war would have lasted much longer. It's amazing the number of subsequent rifle designs that are based on that one rifle from a country that lost the war.

[in_burrito]

Well, I have to qualify with it once a year (military). And we use them for ECS training out in the field. Other than that... Air Force guys don't handle them that often, unless you're Security Forces or in the desert.

On occasion I got to shoot my friends M-16 for recreation when we'd go target shooting together.

I have to go off of my personal experiences with the gun. It always jammed. Maybe I just have bad luck with it, but it's not the gun for me. It's accurate though, I'll give it that. I've gotten some nice groupings with it in the past.

I shoot with quite a few guys that have come back from Iraq 1 and Iraq 2, and they all own ARs. In fact, of all the AK guys I know, none of them are prior service. I can only assume that the M16 must have served them well enough that they chose to invest sometimes 3x as much for the same platform rather than go with the less expensive AK.

The AR/M16 does require maintenance and a knowledgeable rifleman, that is no doubt. With that said, once properly trained anyone can maintain the rifle correctly without issue.

[Pavia]

Yeah what gives? The BAR was (still is) a bad ass rifle.

The BAR is not a combat rifle. It's a squad automatic weapon.

[GTO Jerry]

M1 Garand should be #2 and IMO, the STG44 shouldn't even be on the list because it was so limited in numbers.

Absolutely, the M1 was a big factor in the big one.

[Pavia]

It was nice to see a British-produced program admit that their L-85 was a POS.

[bnvus]

The BAR is not a combat rifle. It's a squad automatic weapon.

Hmm it certainly is better qualified at being a rifle than some of the other listed choices. They are pretty much machine guns.

[Pavia]

I shoot with quite a few guys that have come back from Iraq 1 and Iraq 2, and they all own ARs. In fact, of all the AK guys I know, none of them are prior service. I can only assume that the M16 must have served them well enough that they chose to invest sometimes 3x as much for the same platform rather than go with the less expensive AK.

The AR/M16 does require maintenance and a knowledgeable rifleman, that is no doubt. With that said, once properly trained anyone can maintain the rifle correctly without issue.

For my money, I think the best combat rifle for today's conflicts is an FN FAL Paratroop model in 7.62mm. If I had my choice in Iraq or Afghanistan, I'd have one in desert camo w/ a few goodies. Compact enough to be useful at urban ranges, but hard-hitting at 300+ meters.

[Pavia]

Hmm it certainly is better qualified at being a rifle than some of the other listed choices. They are pretty much machine guns.

True, but then the only real assault rifle (a rifle that shoots a shortened battle-rifle caliber) in the list was the STG44.

[ZigZag]

I had a fully automatic M-14 with a tripod in Vietnam. Yes it was alittle bit heavy and I carried alot of ammo but I was 19 and it wasn't much of a problem. It never jammed either, which was a problem with the M-16's while I was there.

[Grave]

I shoot with quite a few guys that have come back from Iraq 1 and Iraq 2, and they all own ARs. In fact, of all the AK guys I know, none of them are prior service. I can only assume that the M16 must have served them well enough that they chose to invest sometimes 3x as much for the same platform rather than go with the less expensive AK.

The AR/M16 does require maintenance and a knowledgeable rifleman, that is no doubt. With that said, once properly trained anyone can maintain the rifle correctly without issue.


I guess it just all comes down to personal preference. My friend who I mentioned earlier (who owns the M-16) keeps his entire collection immaculate. He always takes very good care of his guns. Yet it still jammed, on average I'd say approx. every 50 rounds or so. The M-16's we use at work are beaters, so they're jamming all the time, clean or not.

The reason I like the AK more than the M-16 is because the AK is more reliable. I've put 800 rounds of Wolf ammo (and that's some dirty ammo!) through my AK, and never once cleaned the thing before it finally jammed a round. The reason I didn't clean it was because I wanted to see how many rounds I had to go through before it jammed. To see if the myths were true. The AK isn't nearly as accurate as the M-16, but who needs accuracy when you're spraying? :D

[KWBSales]

You'll notice that this list mostly contains rifles in 30 caliber. There is a reason for that...they are the most effective caliber in battlefield conditions. For me, if I had to select just one rifle from this list to go into battle with, it would be the M14. :boink:

[in_burrito]

I guess it just all comes down to personal preference. My friend who I mentioned earlier (who owns the M-16) keeps his entire collection immaculate. He always takes very good care of his guns. Yet it still jammed, on average I'd say approx. every 50 rounds or so. The M-16's we use at work are beaters, so they're jamming all the time, clean or not.


I'm assuming that what your friend actually owns is an AR15, not an M16. Transferrable m16s sell for $15k and up right now, where are AR15s can be had for under $1k. Any idea what brand he has? There is alot of garbage out there. Much like the AR15/M16 takes a rifleman to maintain, they also cannot be mass produced cheaply. I bet I could get your friend's working flawlessly in an hour of tinkering.

I have three Colt AR15s with another on the way and have never had a malfunction in any of them, despite the fact that I shoot alot and dislike cleaning them. A little dab of oil in the right places and I'm good to go.

The AK is definately less finicky, but it's not a shooter's gun.

[Grave]

I'm assuming that what your friend actually owns is an AR15, not an M16.

No... it's an Colt M-16. He has a Class III license and can get goodies your normal Joe can't. ;)

But he also has an AR-15, too.

[Desertraptor]

Glad to see the FN FAL = Aussie SLR at 5th spot and the Steyr at No.6

I miss my SLR and would use that over the Steyr any day. I liked the Steyr but you can not beat the 7.62 for hitting power. Man that hurt your shoulder though :)

Steyr in full auto though was fun :)

I noticed on the Steyr photo that the caption is Austrian soldiers on the firing line. Huh.. They have BFAs on their rifles so they arent firing.
Posed photo shoot

[Fastmofo]

don't think you can in NY :shiner:


hehe, well that's why I'm asking cuz I bought a SKS, (new) a bunch of years ago, pretty damn accurate 7.62X39 for $150- and 2 sardine cans of FMJ's($120-), fun at the range, but I always like the AK, (although I heard the SKS was more accurate?). After seeing Lord of War, I kinda thought it'd be cool to have, but not really something I need, hahaha, especially in NY.:shiner:

[gage]

The FAL ftw.

[danrieke]

I understand the Army has been shipping M-14s to Iraq 'cuz it stands up to sand and dust better than the M-16s.

I'd like to see some active-duty Marines or GIs weigh in on this...

[speeddemon]

hehe, well that's why I'm asking cuz I bought a SKS, (new) a bunch of years ago, pretty damn accurate 7.62X39 for $150- and 2 sardine cans of FMJ's($120-), fun at the range, but I always like the AK, (although I heard the SKS was more accurate?). After seeing Lord of War, I kinda thought it'd be cool to have, but not really something I need, hahaha, especially in NY.:shiner:

you still have the sks? they are a ton of fun........you cant own a semi auto "AK47" here in CT (7.62x39mm) but you can own a "AK74" clone here in 5.45x39mm without a single problem....I love this state :shiner:

[speeddemon]

btw,the ak deserves the top spot no doubt,if I was in combat I would want to have an AK-74

[Fastmofo]

you still have the sks? they are a ton of fun........you cant own a semi auto "AK47" here in CT (7.62x39mm) but you can own a "AK74" clone here in 5.45x39mm without a single problem....I love this state :shiner:

Yeah C, I still have the SKS, thinking about building it up a little, but it's the China version, always wanted one of the Yugo versions or some other slavic version as I heard they a better made? Like I said it shoots very accurately though..

This is nice too, as per Ruski..

http://www.ak47.com/

[GTO1_OHIO]

My father carried the M1 when he was with the Marines in Korea. Bought one several years ago and passed it down to me. Very nice weapon.


got it here: http://www.miltecharms.com/

[Raven1124]

If the Sturmgewehr had been around at the beginning of the war, things might have turned out quite differently. At the bare minimum the war would have lasted much longer. It's amazing the number of subsequent rifle designs that are based on that one rifle from a country that lost the war.

That's so true. Thank God it never saw widespread use in WWII.

[Fastmofo]

My father carried the M1 when he was with the Marines in Korea. Bought one several years ago and passed it down to me. Very nice weapon.


got it here: http://www.miltecharms.com/

I have some buddies that swear by that Garand, they say it is one of the most accurate rifles..

[Pavia]

Glad to see the FN FAL = Aussie SLR at 5th spot and the Steyr at No.6

I miss my SLR and would use that over the Steyr any day. I liked the Steyr but you can not beat the 7.62 for hitting power. Man that hurt your shoulder though :)

Steyr in full auto though was fun :)

I noticed on the Steyr photo that the caption is Austrian soldiers on the firing line. Huh.. They have BFAs on their rifles so they arent firing.
Posed photo shoot

I have an Aussie L1A1 SLR and now an Aussie GTO. Love em both...

[ruski]

If the Sturmgewehr had been around at the beginning of the war, things might have turned out quite differently. At the bare minimum the war would have lasted much longer. It's amazing the number of subsequent rifle designs that are based on that one rifle from a country that lost the war.

Hmmmm... the Russians had a pretty good PPSh back then, so Germany would have lost anyway.
http://www.images.alliancze.org/CoD/ppsh_popis_min .gif

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h222/linedoggie/ ppsh.jpg

Even Germans liked to play with them:
http://scalecombat.narod.ru/realwar/Germ-soldier-with-PPSh.jpg

[GerminaTOr]

That is so awesome that the M-14 is at the very top! I love that riffle. I shoot expert with it every time I have to qualify. It is heavy but DEADLY accurate.

I'd like to own one some day.

[ruski]

hehe, well that's why I'm asking cuz I bought a SKS, (new) a bunch of years ago, pretty damn accurate 7.62X39 for $150- and 2 sardine cans of FMJ's($120-), fun at the range, but I always like the AK, (although I heard the SKS was more accurate?). After seeing Lord of War, I kinda thought it'd be cool to have, but not really something I need, hahaha, especially in NY.:shiner:


If you want an accurate AK-47, get the VEPR (Russian for whild boar). It has a receiver from the RPK machine gun.

http://www.ak47.com/

[DeepBlueZ]

Nice historical find. Out of curiousity, can one purchase an AK(semi, duh) without any special ffl lic, and how much do they cost? Thanks.

Yes you can Jordan. Naturally you cannot buy one that's selective fire and you can't buy one over the internet and have it shipped to you, but yes, you can walk into any LI gun shop and walk out with a S.A. AK in a few minutes.

They're no different (as far as classification) than the AR-15s I own which require no permit and no waiting period.

[vtown1616]

I understand the Army has been shipping M-14s to Iraq 'cuz it stands up to sand and dust better than the M-16s.

I'd like to see some active-duty Marines or GIs weigh in on this...

Ya, a lot of the infantry, cav scouts, and marines have M14s. A lot are in sniper roles, but there were some 3rd ID personnel in Iraq during my last deployment who had some nicer composite M14s. I would personally prefer to have the SOCOM version of the M14 because of the bigger round, but the M4s we use aren't too bad, if kept clean. That is the problem they have with them now, as they did in Vietnam. People don't keep their shit clean, and they gunk up and jam. We went to a range about 2 weeks ago, and I fired 10 full mags (300 rounds) through my M4 without a single stoppage or malfunction. It's just a matter of keeping the M16/M4 rifles clean. The size of the round sucks for combat though.

[1000devils]

Nice historical find. Out of curiousity, can one purchase an AK(semi, duh) without any special ffl lic, and how much do they cost? Thanks.yes/ in pa $400. and up . at gun shop or just out of the paper classified. i saw one the other week for $550. with 1000 rounds

[-db-]

For some reason that scene from Full Metal Jacket where the big Marine in Joker's platoon comes up on a squad hunkered down outside of Hue or wharever it was and some kid in another unit is talking about combat and the big Marine asks him with a smirk on his face, "So, you've seen a lot of combat?" started playing in my head while reading this thread.

Sure are a lot of opinions about combat/assault rifles from folks who've probably never seen any combat or even ever trained for it. No offense, of course, to anyone who has. ;)

[speeddemon]

Hmmmm... the Russians had a pretty good PPSh back then, so Germany would have lost anyway.
http://www.images.alliancze.org/CoD/ppsh_popis_min .gif

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h222/linedoggie/ ppsh.jpg

Even Germans liked to play with them:
http://scalecombat.narod.ru/realwar/Germ-soldier-with-PPSh.jpg

if the Germans had had the STG44/MP44 in 1939 then the war would have lasted longer if not been won by them.......it is a weapon far ahead of its time when it was first issued in 1944 and we are very lucky not many made it to the front lines-and yes the PPSH is an amazing SUBmachine gun but it still doesnt have the range of a kurz round

[Pavia]

if the Germans had had the STG44/MP44 in 1939 then the war would have lasted longer if not been won by them.......it is a weapon far ahead of its time when it was first issued in 1944 and we are very lucky not many made it to the front lines-and yes the PPSH is an amazing SUBmachine gun but it still doesnt have the range of a kurz round

The Germans could have had phased-plasma rifles and they still would have lost.

For every one Ivan shot by a STG44, there were a couple thousand Fritz's paroled to Jesus by over-whelming Russian artillery.

[speeddemon]

The Germans could have had phased-plasma rifles and they still would have lost.

For every one Ivan shot by a STG44, there were a couple thousand Fritz's paroled to Jesus by over-whelming Russian artillery.

quite simply,if hitler was not in command the war would have been probally won by the germans from the standpoint he gave such stupid commands that always ended up being the wrong decisions-if such commanders as rommel were let to do their jobs it have had quite a different ending......but thank god hitler was in command and made all the wrong decisions!

[Fastmofo]

Yes you can Jordan. Naturally you cannot buy one that's selective fire and you can't buy one over the internet and have it shipped to you, but yes, you can walk into any LI gun shop and walk out with a S.A. AK in a few minutes.

They're no different (as far as classification) than the AR-15s I own which require no permit and no waiting period.


Thanks Mike...!
We gotta do Hooters again sooner..:D

[Desertraptor]

Hitler has syphillis. It makes you do strange things :o

[speeddemon]

Hitler has syphillis. It makes you do strange things :o

allegidly hitler is in the core of the earth with 100 high ranking SS officers planning a return :shiner:

[AMUshooter]

I understand the Army has been shipping M-14s to Iraq 'cuz it stands up to sand and dust better than the M-16s.

I'd like to see some active-duty Marines or GIs weigh in on this...

We did an extensive test between right off the rack M-16s and Brand new in the box M1As and a some M-14s. The M-14s did not fair as well as we thought they would. The 16s did better and were far easier to clean afterwards. It was a very expensive test and we were rooting for the 308s but it just didn't happen.

[Fastmofo]

As some of you know, I don't really do much with real guns, ('cept my SKS, which I goto the 200yd range with every so often, and clean it often). I do have some years of experience with paintball markers. The majority of the problems users on the PB forums have with their markers are from lack of cleaning and lubrication. They often blame problems on reliability, as opposed to eliminating the problem via good maint.