Another CCW Thread

[MacDogg]

BOOO!! I'm getting robbed!
I went to the gun shop in town to inquire about getting a CCW licence and check this dookie out:
Class: $150, 8a-11p (1st Wednesday of each month), included range and class time, some paperwork and fingerprints and photo
DPS: $140 to file the paperwork!!:shiner:

$290 for that shizz? Plus 50 rounds for the range, miss one day of work and then hope I pass and get the license.

When I got my CCW in Michigan it cost me $90 for class that I took on a SATURDAY for 8 hours (3 range hours and 5 class) and $15 for the finger prints somewhere in the Oakland County Court.

So how'd y'all get robbed?!!?

[VeritasGT]

Whats involved in getting a CCW.. sometimes when I'm shooting pictures in downtown rochester, I'd like to carry something... i've been followed twice when leaving... its an eerie feeling.

[Displacement]

Anyone know where I can get CCW info for California? It says I can only get one if I "demonstrate need"

[detroit613]

Anyone know where I can get CCW info for California? It says I can only get one if I "demonstrate need"

get shot:wall: lol

[Lorider680]

There are CCW laws in Texas. Isn't it still legal to drive with an open container.
Chuch

[Anthony K]

BOOO!! I'm getting robbed!
I went to the gun shop in town to inquire about getting a CCW licence and check this dookie out:
Class: $150, 8a-11p (1st Wednesday of each month), included range and class time, some paperwork and fingerprints and photo
DPS: $140 to file the paperwork!!:shiner:

$290 for that shizz? Plus 50 rounds for the range, miss one day of work and then hope I pass and get the license.

When I got my CCW in Michigan it cost me $90 for class that I took on a SATURDAY for 8 hours (3 range hours and 5 class) and $15 for the finger prints somewhere in the Oakland County Court.

So how'd y'all get robbed?!!?

after saying all that you did, i have to end it like this.........

$150 for the training
$140 for the paperwork
$20 for ammo

having your piece on you when your LIFE DEPENDED on it.....

PRICELESS

its around $100 still here in Mi for the classes and the "paperwork" fee is $115 in WaCo at least, every 5 years. i would have spent whatever it took to beable to legally carry. i am even in law enforcement and had to pay the same as everybody else.

[Sicky]

There are CCW laws in Texas. Isn't it still legal to drive with an open container.
Chuch

Uhh...no. And somewhat recently this applies for passengers as well. ;)

[Scurvy]

Man, I'm glad I live in Va.

CCW requires one training class.

Luckily applying for a NRA range non-membership counts. cost zero.

Fill out the form and send them the app fee.

I haven't applied yet, as I enjoy being able to open carry w/o a permit.

[Jim06GTO]

Anyone know where I can get CCW info for California? It says I can only get one if I "demonstrate need"

http://www.packing.org/state/california/

Good luck. Chances are, you wont get one.

[stillgreedy]

Pay the money. 75 for a class here, then about 120 for the paperwork and carry licence.

[Flashpoint]

It's difficult to get a non-restricted (ie. NOT "Hunting and target only") here in NY. Even more difficult in NYC area then here in WNY.

It's cheap to get one for hunting and target only though. $10 lifetime license (except if revoked, ie. using a gun in a crime). It takes about 6 months though to get the restricted and you can't legally buy a handgun without a license period.

[smokehouse]

Try living in Illinois, we don't have any option for one...

I'd GLADLY pay $300+ for one if I could.

[GT086]

It's difficult to get a non-restricted (ie. NOT "Hunting and target only") here in NY. Even more difficult in NYC area then here in WNY.

It's cheap to get one for hunting and target only though. $10 lifetime license (except if revoked, ie. using a gun in a crime). It takes about 6 months though to get the restricted and you can't legally buy a handgun without a license period.
Once I turn 21, I'll be all over that.

[malcum]

The law passed in Ohio only a couple of years ago. But it's fairly CCW friendly. The only problem is the stupid rules for car carry. It has to be in a holster on your body in plain view. Same on a motorcycle. Just what people want to see-a guy riding his harley with a glock strapped to his side. You can also lock it in the glove compartment. Not a bad compromise to be able to carry a loaded gun legally in your car. Outside the car you're free to stick it in your pocket or hidden holster as you like.

12 hrs training required but can be done in one day-about 60.00
45.00 for 4 yr license with up to 45 day waiting period. But law allows you to go to any adjoining county to prevent your own county sheriff from being a hardass and stringing you along. I went to the next county and got mine in 3 days.

[Flashpoint]

Once I turn 21, I'll be all over that.

You have an in though, unlike the rest of us.

I just don't want to be robbed by 4 guys (or worse) like a guy was last week at one of our locations... they had it on camera and everything the guys were hanging around for about half an hour before it happened waiting for the right victim. :(

We need our cops out of their cars and have a presence in the stations at least during rush hours if not all public hours like they were 20 years ago when we first opened. Cameras alone are not cutting it :(

[in_burrito]

What's your life worth?

With that said...

I don't know the rules in TX, but why don't you shop around for another place to take the class?

[GT086]

You have an in though, unlike the rest of us.

I just don't want to be robbed by 4 guys (or worse) like a guy was last week at one of our locations... they had it on camera and everything the guys were hanging around for about half an hour before it happened waiting for the right victim. :(

We need our cops out of their cars and have a presence in the stations at least during rush hours if not all public hours like they were 20 years ago when we first opened. Cameras alone are not cutting it :(
Which I will use to my full advantage. I do actually worry about seeing somebody that got arrested out on the street. Who knows what that idiot is liable to do, even though I'm just a dispatcher.

As for your situation, that sucks. Cameras are not really a deterrent to most criminals, they know they can just cover there face or whatever. If there was an actual cop, hell even a security guard they'll be a lot less likely to act.

[vtown1616]

What's your life worth?

With that said...

I don't know the rules in TX, but why don't you shop around for another place to take the class?

+1. Shop around. I know a couple people here have gotten it a little cheaper, but it may have been due to a military discount. Also, if I were to get one, I wouldn't have to take a full length class, and I can bypass the range day because of being in the military and being a police officer. It takes about 2 months to finally get your license once you apply for it

[Flashpoint]

Which I will use to my full advantage. I do actually worry about seeing somebody that got arrested out on the street. Who knows what that idiot is liable to do, even though I'm just a dispatcher.

As for your situation, that sucks. Cameras are not really a deterrent to most criminals, they know they can just cover there face or whatever. If there was an actual cop, hell even a security guard they'll be a lot less likely to act.

These guys didn't even try to hide, they were out in the open. I've seen the video of it. Now that they got away with it, they will be back.

The really messed up thing is that another employee was being robbed (years ago) and he beat the hell out of the guy for it, the company fires him! , then re-hired him later in a job without the public there. What kind of :bs: is that!!! Fired for protecting himself WTF.

[GT086]

These guys didn't even try to hide, they were out in the open. I've seen the video of it. Now that they got away with it, they will be back.

The really messed up thing is that another employee was being robbed (years ago) and he beat the hell out of the guy for it, the company fires him! , then re-hired him later in a job without the public there. What kind of :bs: is that!!! Fired for protecting himself WTF.
That's some bullshit, if I've ever heard any.

[Quantim0]

That's a lot. Our classes are $50 and the paperwork is a little more. I have my class coming up in a few weeks.

[Scurvy]

Saw a sign in a tow lot office the other day...


If you are planning on robbing us we urge you to look someplace else...

...we will not hesitate to shoot you.

[paco04]

Just take the Sheriff hunting or fishing a few times. Then hit him up for a permit, or better yet, a badge. The badge might help out with tickets also.

[Anthony K]

Just take the Sheriff hunting or fishing a few times. Then hit him up for a permit, or better yet, a badge. The badge might help out with tickets also.


if your not a LEO there is no reason to have a badge, if you have a badge on your person and your not a sworn LEO, ANY officer that stops you and you pull it out WITHOUT VALID ID.......OH BOY!!! impersonating, bribery, on top of whatever else he can come up with. now MOST Sheriffs can Deputise anyone for any reason, but thats different than just getting a badge

[in_burrito]

if your not a LEO there is no reason to have a badge, if you have a badge on your person and your not a sworn LEO, ANY officer that stops you and you pull it out WITHOUT VALID ID.......OH BOY!!! impersonating, bribery, on top of whatever else he can come up with. now MOST Sheriffs can Deputise anyone for any reason, but thats different than just getting a badge

I assume he meant to get the sherriff to deputize you, but if you look at his location you'll see that it's open season when it comes to "persuading" public officials.

[speeddemon]

this state you just need your pistol permit to carry....not sure how much it is though.......if it helps you all my cousins carry down in Texas and Louisiana :D

[SlowBlueGTO]

Ahhh, one more benefit of being in the Military.....Just go to the courthouse in VA, show em my Military ID, pay like 15 bucks for paperwork and it shows up in the mail. Also, military can carry in any state as long as they have a CCP in one of the 50.

[in_burrito]

Ahhh, one more benefit of being in the Military.....Just go to the courthouse in VA, show em my Military ID, pay like 15 bucks for paperwork and it shows up in the mail. Also, military can carry in any state as long as they have a CCP in one of the 50.

I don't know where you heard that, but you really need to check on it. I don't think you're going to be able to go to NYC and carry just because you have a permit from VA.

[Scurvy]

Ahhh, one more benefit of being in the Military.....Just go to the courthouse in VA, show em my Military ID, pay like 15 bucks for paperwork and it shows up in the mail. Also, military can carry in any state as long as they have a CCP in one of the 50.

Actually that's a benefit of living in our great state. I can do the same

[MacDogg]

Uhh...no. And somewhat recently this applies for passengers as well. ;)

Unless your buddy has a chauffeurs license! :drink: :drink:


PRICELESS

I hear ya. I want to go out to BFE with my telescope but want to be armed in case some four legged critter creeps on me...or a two legged critter, whichever.
I'm more pissed at the $140 processing fee from the DPS. Class time...fine, I paid $90 in Michigan, $150...stick it to. But $140 for the processing fee seems out of this world...but they can charge whatever cause we'll do it.

[vtown1616]

Ahhh, one more benefit of being in the Military.....Just go to the courthouse in VA, show em my Military ID, pay like 15 bucks for paperwork and it shows up in the mail. Also, military can carry in any state as long as they have a CCP in one of the 50.

Never heard that before. Each state is different on the permit requirements. Some more strict, some not. Here in Texas, I would still have to take the class and go through the background check and whatnot, even though I am military, and a police officer at that. And I don't think I can take my license from Texas, and head back home to a nice lefty state like California and just walk around with a concealed weapon. The cops would itching to shoot me out there, license or not

[Jizz]

after saying all that you did, i have to end it like this.........

$150 for the training
$140 for the paperwork
$20 for ammo

having your piece on you when your LIFE DEPENDED on it.....

PRICELESS

x1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Where is WolfDogs on this one!

[SlowBlueGTO]

I forget the AR number (it's not one of the ones I need for the E-6 board I'm studying for lol) but I believe it's the Army Regulation for Concealed Weapons Carry or something close to that. I didn't believe it either till my last Platoon Sergeant showed it to me in black and white.

[Jizz]

I don't know where you heard that, but you really need to check on it. I don't think you're going to be able to go to NYC and carry just because you have a permit from VA.

Yep, this is true. Even LEO need to register to carry state to state.

[207]

Hmm.. I'm kinda confused on this one.. you say you have a CCW in Michigan moved to Texas and they won't recognize the fact that you've already went through the background check , FBI print cards, etc. or is this gun shop simply blowing smoke up your azz to collect some $$$?

According to the TX DPS, Michigan and Texas are reciprocal States as long as you're not a part time resident of Texas.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_ records/chl/reciprocity.htm

[207]

Yep, this is true. Even LEO need to register to carry state to state.
With the passing of HR 218 in 01/04 on the job and retired LEO's can carry State to State without restriction. Retirees in good standing MUST have a department ID AND carry certification that they have completed and met the department's yearly pistol qualification requirements.

The only State that I'm aware of that has an issue with anything is New Jersey and their "hollow point" bullet / hi cap mag restriction.
A quote from their books:
"It should also be noted that, as civilians, retired officers cannot legally carry hollow-point ammunition or utilize high-capacity magazines restricted to law-enforcement use".

[GTO DIVA!]

BOOO!! I'm getting robbed!
I went to the gun shop in town to inquire about getting a CCW licence and check this dookie out:
Class: $150, 8a-11p (1st Wednesday of each month), included range and class time, some paperwork and fingerprints and photo
DPS: $140 to file the paperwork!!:shiner:

$290 for that shizz? Plus 50 rounds for the range, miss one day of work and then hope I pass and get the license.

When I got my CCW in Michigan it cost me $90 for class that I took on a SATURDAY for 8 hours (3 range hours and 5 class) and $15 for the finger prints somewhere in the Oakland County Court.

So how'd y'all get robbed?!!?

$140 for the paperwork and $95 for an all day Saturday class..but after being shot at i was willing pay about anything for one. i'd say shop around for a better deal. NY and CA seem to be the exception to the reciprocity rule.

I'm using the wife's login for the record, but she's getting one also.

[MuhThugga]

I thought you were talking about the ever-popular wheels for the GTO :drink:

I've never felt threatened, so I haven't ever felt a need to obtain a CCW license.

[Goat Lover]

this has been on my want list for years... can legally buy rifles and shotguns now but still am waiting patiently to be able to buy a pistol and get a CCW license. ive been shot at once but got away running fast like a bat out of hell, almoast gotten shot on several other occations, this is a must on my things to do when im 21 list.

[slacker]

2 min and 10 bucks later, legal to carry a concealed pistol. i love south dakota.

oh and yeah, if its in the state, no problemo on buying any weapon that is legal lol.

[Loosecannon]

I carry all the time!! In California!!!,..hmmm,..maybe that little thing on my I.D. that says Peace Officer has something to do with it..? Oh and the CCW wheels are great too..mine show up Thurs..!!!!! WOOHOOO!!! Can't wait!!!

[Flashpoint]

$140 for the paperwork and $95 for an all day Saturday class..but after being shot at i was willing pay about anything for one. i'd say shop around for a better deal. NY and CA seem to be the exception to the reciprocity rule.

I'm using the wife's login for the record, but she's getting one also.

Also be aware for NY state, all places in the state are one set of rules except the NYC area which has an entirely different set of laws and costs for that matter... any county except new york city counties are $10 lifetime while the city areas are ~$150 and anywhere from 3-5 years depending on county....

[in_burrito]

I forget the AR number (it's not one of the ones I need for the E-6 board I'm studying for lol) but I believe it's the Army Regulation for Concealed Weapons Carry or something close to that. I didn't believe it either till my last Platoon Sergeant showed it to me in black and white.

I can't find anything here
http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/index.html

I'll make you a deal. You go to NYC or LA and carry concealed, march right up to a cop and announce that you're carrying concealed, but that you're in the military so it's "OK". I promise to fly right out and post your bail.

[GT086]

Also be aware for NY state, all places in the state are one set of rules except the NYC area which has an entirely different set of laws and costs for that matter... any county except new york city counties are $10 lifetime while the city areas are ~$150 and anywhere from 3-5 years depending on county....
Yup, NYC has totally different rules and is basically a separate state from the rest of NY.

[Flashpoint]

Yup, NYC has totally different rules and is basically a separate state from the rest of NY.

So maybe they should keep all their tax revenue and the rest of the state will keep ours, instead of us giving them 50% of ours...

I'm sick of paying for NYC... we are dieing out here...:rant:

[GT086]

So maybe they should keep all their tax revenue and the rest of the state will keep ours, instead of us giving them 50% of ours...

I'm sick of paying for NYC... we are dieing out here...:rant:
I've been saying that for years. They get a disproportionate amount of tax money.

[Flashpoint]

I've been saying that for years. They get a disproportionate amount of tax money.

Thank you... I envision John carpenters "escape from New York" becoming real in the future... no offense city goat and other NYC residents ;)

"escape from LA" can occur also... I wouldn't mind at all...

[GT086]

Thank you... I envision John carpenters "escape from New York" becoming real in the future... no offense city goat and other NYC residents ;)

"escape from LA" can occur also... I wouldn't mind at all...
I'd prefer the "Escape From L.A." scenario. I don't mind visiting the city every once in awhile.

[Flashpoint]

I'd prefer the "Escape From L.A." scenario. I don't mind visiting the city every once in awhile.

I've been there myself 2 weeks every year from the time I was 6 to 18... haven't been back since then though... I have done and seen just about everything that I would care to visit there during that time...at least on the island of Manhattan... Brooklyn and LI are ok though....

[GT086]

I've been there myself 2 weeks every year from the time I was 6 to 18... haven't been back since then though... I have done and seen just about everything that I would care to visit there during that time...
I usually head down once every year. But I'm only 50 miles away so it's no big trip or anything.

Brooklyn's alright, they have the best cheesecake in the world and a damn fine steak joint. Junior's and Peter Luger's.

[Flashpoint]

I usually head down once every year. But I'm only 50 miles away so it's no big trip or anything.

yeah more like 400 for me...I always took a plane to Newark airport though...less then an hour and was cheap back then...Was ok to be flying alone at 6 years old back then also...


anyways back on topic... I should at least go for the restricted soon just for target...for now since it takes at least a year to even be considered to get CCW and more like 3 or so in my county it seems....at least Niagara is better about it then erie... (almost no chance ever there)...

[GT086]

yeah more like 400 for me...I always took a plane to Newark airport though...less then an hour and was cheap back then...Was ok flying to be flying alone at 6 years old back then also...
I'm surprised you weren't robbed in Newark at least once.

[Flashpoint]

I'm surprised you weren't robbed in Newark at least once.

My Father always waited for me at the gate (again something that would NEVER happen today) and I had nothing to steal except my clothes....

Newark > all other NYC area airports....

[GT086]

My Father always waited for me at the gate (again something that would NEVER happen today) and I had nothing to steal except my clothes....

Newark > all other NYC area airports....
I fly out of our local one if possible. Stewart in Newburgh but Newark is definitely the best out of the city airports.

[Flashpoint]

I fly out of our local one if possible. Stewart in Newburgh but Newark is definitely the best out of the city airports.

Niagara Falls airport (currently USAF and fed-ex, etc... only) Is going to start offering commercial flights to myrtle beach next year (2007) to start... all other flights have to go thru buffalo international airport... I hate that place...

[ellisk02]

I forget the AR number (it's not one of the ones I need for the E-6 board I'm studying for lol) but I believe it's the Army Regulation for Concealed Weapons Carry or something close to that. I didn't believe it either till my last Platoon Sergeant showed it to me in black and white.

Hate to burst your bubble, but AR don't mean jack sh#t outside the Army...that's why it's called Army Regulation, and not US Code or even DoDi for that matter. If you want to carry in 50 states, you might want to think about a career in law enforcement.

[in_burrito]

Hate to burst your bubble, but AR don't mean jack sh#t outside the Army...that's why it's called Army Regulation, and not US Code or even DoDi for that matter. If you want to carry in 50 states, you might want to think about a career in CIVILIAN law enforcement.

Just added the bold above for clarification.

[goatburger]

Gotta love Alabama...$20 and pick it up in 3 days...no classes or anything like that.

[AMUshooter]

Georgia is about the same. 40$, no class. I had to bring in a proof of address b/c I claim Iowa as my state of residence. (Army) Other than that. It was too easy.
E

[MacDogg]

Hmm.. I'm kinda confused on this one.. you say you have a CCW in Michigan moved to Texas and they won't recognize the fact that you've already went through the background check , FBI print cards, etc. or is this gun shop simply blowing smoke up your azz to collect some $$$?

According to the TX DPS, Michigan and Texas are reciprocal States as long as you're not a part time resident of Texas.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_ records/chl/reciprocity.htm

What sucks about that is my Michigan license expired in June 2005 and when I moved to Texas (March 2004) there was no reciprocity with Michigan. Too late now.

[stillgreedy]

lucky for us we live in the south where is it almost to easy to buy a gun and ccw permit

[st8gunner]

I live in dutchess county, NY, about 1 hour 15 min north of good ol NYC (groan).

Anyway, for a CCW permit in Dutchess County,

fill out a bunch of forms,
Like,
a BUNCH,
$20 for fingerprinting,
$99 processing fee,
no classes,
3-6 months later you have your license provided you're not a felon.

I submitted mine Aug 15, still no word. They're taking their sweet time. I've never had anything worse than a speeding ticket, already have all the fingerprint files they're 'creating' with my 'processing fee' ( I thought that's what taxpayer dollars were for, the dutchess county sheriff's office to do things like this, guess not) through the military.

Hurry Up.

[danrieke]

Isn't it ironic that the one Nation whose Constitution guarantees you the right to bear arms is the most difficult of all in which to purchase and carry a gun?

Even more ironic... all of that by politicians who took oaths to protect and defend that same Constitution!

It doesn't matter what Party they're with. Ain't none of 'em got your back.

[in_burrito]

Isn't it ironic that the one Nation whose Constitution guarantees you the right to bear arms is the most difficult of all in which to purchase and carry a gun?


I would be inclined to disagree. What other country in the world can you legally purchase and carry a firearm like you can in the US?

[ellisk02]

Just added the bold above for clarification.

True. Thanks. It can apply to military law enforcement if you go CID or OSI, but a lot of civilian law enforcement would still give you sh!t because no one wants to recognize CID and OSI for what they are. I would have included NCIS, but they're all civilian anyway.

[IndyBlue]

$35 and my fingerprints and it's good for 4 years. No classes required, no serial numbers or anything. For $100 I can now get a lifetime permit here in Indy `O=o-

My only weapon so far is a Browning 9mm BDM with 14rd mag. It's a nice gun, very thin and nicely balanced, pretty accurate, and so far very reliable. It was never a big seller but I like that it has the option to operate as a pistol or as a revolver with the turn of a knob.

[Thull]

Here in MN, $150 for the class, $100 for the permit

[Fast GTO]

I thought someone was complaining about wheels.

[in_burrito]

My only weapon so far is a Browning 9mm BDM with 14rd mag. It's a nice gun, very thin and nicely balanced, pretty accurate, and so far very reliable. It was never a big seller but I like that it has the option to operate as a pistol or as a revolver with the turn of a knob.

OK, you're going to have to do me a favor and point out the cylinder on this gun, because for the life of me I can't find it.

http://www.gundirectory.com/guns/20143-1.jpg

[stealthregal]

BOOO!! I'm getting robbed!
I went to the gun shop in town to inquire about getting a CCW licence and check this dookie out:
Class: $150, 8a-11p (1st Wednesday of each month), included range and class time, some paperwork and fingerprints and photo
DPS: $140 to file the paperwork!!:shiner:

$290 for that shizz? Plus 50 rounds for the range, miss one day of work and then hope I pass and get the license.

When I got my CCW in Michigan it cost me $90 for class that I took on a SATURDAY for 8 hours (3 range hours and 5 class) and $15 for the finger prints somewhere in the Oakland County Court.

So how'd y'all get robbed?!!?

MacDogg,

Look at getting a non resident Flordia permit. Most states will honor it and it should be cheaper then the Texas one.

[-db-]

My only weapon so far is a Browning 9mm BDM with 14rd mag. It's a nice gun, very thin and nicely balanced, pretty accurate, and so far very reliable. It was never a big seller but I like that it has the option to operate as a pistol or as a revolver with the turn of a knob.

I'm with in_burrito; please explain what on earth you're talking about?

[Thull]

^ yea what? I want a semiauto revolver too

[in_burrito]

^ yea what? I want a semiauto revolver too

http://julia.hanovercomputer.com/firearms/oct03/ca talog/images%5C49258.jpg

[IndyBlue]

OK, you're going to have to do me a favor and point out the cylinder on this gun, because for the life of me I can't find it.

http://www.gundirectory.com/guns/20143-1.jpg

It's what the manual call it, revolver mode.

It's just makes the gun act as either a semi-auto pistol where the hammer stays ****ed after each shot or like a revolver the hammer comes to rest after each shot. It's not real usefull, I believe it was marketed as a safety feature for LE that never caught on. The BDM is double-action.

[stillgreedy]

Thats very weird

[MoFinWiley]

Must just be poor wording for selectable DA/SA

[in_burrito]

Must just be poor wording for selectable DA/SA

Yep, that's what it is. But the manual calling it "revolver mode" and saying that it "functions like a revolver" are still two completely different things.

[IndyBlue]

Must just be poor wording for selectable DA/SA

There is no SA mode, it is always DA (unless my knowledge of DA is wrong - trigger c()cks the hammer??) Doesn't SA mean the hammer must be pre-c()cked by means other than the trigger?

On the BDM revolver mode is how the hammer acts after a shot.

Pistol-mode or Revolver-mode:

http://ls2gto.com/forums/attachment.php?attachment id=47490&stc=1&d=1165164070

[chucky]

Anyone know where I can get CCW info for California? It says I can only get one if I "demonstrate need"

VERY VERY unlikely if you live in LA county. If you know of anyone who lives in KERN county you might be able to use their address but you would have to have your name added to a utility bill for 3 months.

[in_burrito]

There is no SA mode, it is always DA (unless my knowledge of DA is wrong - trigger c()cks the hammer??) Doesn't SA mean the hammer must be pre-c()cked by means other than the trigger?

On the BDM revolver mode is how the hammer acts after a shot.

Pistol-mode or Revolver-mode:

http://ls2gto.com/forums/attachment.php?attachment id=47490&stc=1&d=1165164070

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in "revolver mode" the hammer follows the slide forward and is DA all the time, and in "pistol mode" the hammer starts out down but is SA after subsequent shots.

[nsofokles]

6 months of my life in the academy...in NYC its pretty much impossible to carry ccw unless your a cop...biggest safest city in the US...and thats one reason why

[Scurvy]

What about D.C. which doesn't allow any guns period?

No offense but I believe the two reasons NYC is considered a "safe" city is two fold

A. Gentrification
B. Reporting of crime stats

Don't blame me blame my crazy criminology teacher haha. He had some personal vendetta against Guiliani and thinks his reporting of crime stats was absurdly wrong.

[-db-]

...in NYC its pretty much impossible to carry ccw unless your a cop...biggest safest city in the world...and thats one reason why

Heh, easy there, stud. I know you guys are rightly proud of your work there but you can hardly say with any kind of credibility that NYC is anywhere near one of the safest cities in America, let alone THE safest lol...

[Whynot]

I thought you were talking about the ever-popular wheels for the GTO :drink:

I've never felt threatened, so I haven't ever felt a need to obtain a CCW license.

My house has never caught fire, but I still like to have an extinguisher around. Many people have never been in accidents, but I still recomend wearing a seat belt.

[nsofokles]

Heh, easy there, stud. I know you guys are rightly proud of your work there but you can hardly say with any kind of credibility that NYC is anywhere near one of the safest cities in America, let alone THE safest lol...


Do some research and then talk to me
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14910822/
Also, go to www.ci.nyc.ny.us/nypd
we publish ALL crime stats for all to see...so the comments that we misrepresent the crime rates is bullshit. Those crime stats come right off of our 61's (complain reports) there is no way to fake em
For a city of 8 million to ony have 523 murders, i think thats pretty good.

[-db-]

Do some research and then talk to me
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14910822/
Also, go to www.ci.nyc.ny.us/nypd
we publish ALL crime stats for all to see...so the comments that we misrepresent the crime rates is bullshit. Those crime stats come right off of our 61's (complain reports) there is no way to fake em
For a city of 8 million to ony have 523 murders, i think thats pretty good.

I have done the research and I've been to NYC. Tell you what, if you really believe NYC is the safest city in America I dare you to take one of your loved ones, say your wife or child, and drop them off down in Jamaica or Brooklyn, Bed Sty, Queens or Harlem. Take your wife and drop her off on any random street near the Queensbridge projects at 2 AM and have her find her own way home. What? Why not? I thought it was the safest city in America? Only 523 murders per 8 million. Those are great odds, right? :rolleyes:

I don't care what kind of statistics you use or what your police reports say. Claiming any major city in America is the safest city in America and then backing the claim up with only simple murders per capita is absurd.

[Flashpoint]

Do some research and then talk to me
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14910822/
Also, go to www.ci.nyc.ny.us/nypd
we publish ALL crime stats for all to see...so the comments that we misrepresent the crime rates is bullshit. Those crime stats come right off of our 61's (complain reports) there is no way to fake em
For a city of 8 million to only have 523 murders, i think thats pretty good.

Ok how many of those are shootings, now how many are with handguns , and finally how many are legal registered guns bought from a licensed store and are registered BUT not stolen.

There might be a few but it is likely to be in the single digits.

[nsofokles]

I have done the research and I've been to NYC. Tell you what, if you really believe NYC is the safest city in America I dare you to take one of your loved ones, say your wife or child, and drop them off down in Jamaica or Brooklyn, Bed Sty, Queens or Harlem. Take your wife and drop her off on any random street near the Queensbridge projects at 2 AM and have her find her own way home. What? Why not? I thought it was the safest city in America? Only 523 murders per 8 million. Those are great odds, right? :rolleyes:

I don't care what kind of statistics you use or what your police reports say. Claiming any major city in America is the safest city in America and then backing the claim up with only simple murders per capita is absurd.

You visit here and think you know it all...just like every other tourist. Did i ever say the safest city in the US...no. We need to learn reading comprehension, i said the safest BIG city in the US. Is NYC the safest big city, yes it is. Is it the safest overall city, no I give that award to Taylor, MI.

[nsofokles]

Ok how many of those are shootings, now how many are with handguns , and finally how many are legal registered guns bought from a licensed store and are registered BUT not stolen.

There might be a few but it is likely to be in the single digits.

I would dignify that with a response but what difference does it make?

[-db-]

You visit here and think you know it all...just like every other tourist. Did i ever say the safest city in the US...no. We need to learn reading comprehension, i said the safest BIG city in the US. Is NYC the safest big city, yes it is. Is it the safest overall city, no I give that award to Taylor, MI.

Reading comprehension, eh? Look, son- you clearly said biggest safest city in the world, not safest big city in America. It's saved up where I quoted you. Now, you see, there's a difference (read it a couple times if you have to).

So, anyway, statistically NYC may be the safest BIG city in America. That's among places like Los Angeles, Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, etc. That hardly means any of those cities are "safe" on the face of things but think whatever you want. Whatever helps you sleep at night lol...

As for the tourist comment, if I had only been so lucky. It was work-related, unfortunately.

[Scurvy]

Do some research and then talk to me
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14910822/
Also, go to www.ci.nyc.ny.us/nypd
we publish ALL crime stats for all to see...so the comments that we misrepresent the crime rates is bullshit. Those crime stats come right off of our 61's (complain reports) there is no way to fake em
For a city of 8 million to ony have 523 murders, i think thats pretty good.

How do you guys define a murder though? Arrest made? No evidence of suicide? Convictions?

At what point in the criminal investigation does an officer say it's a murder?

[nsofokles]

How do you guys define a murder though? Arrest made? No evidence of suicide? Convictions?

At what point in the criminal investigation does an officer say it's a murder?

When there is a body and it died by something other then natural causes...ie: gunshot wound, stabbing, beat to death that is a murder. That number has no bearing on arrests or convictions. And suicicde is not counted under that murder index

[nsofokles]

Reading comprehension, eh? Look, son- you clearly said biggest safest city in the world, not safest big city in America. It's saved up where I quoted you. Now, you see, there's a difference (read it a couple times if you have to).

So, anyway, statistically NYC may be the safest BIG city in America. That's among places like Los Angeles, Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, etc. That hardly means any of those cities are "safe" on the face of things but think whatever you want. Whatever helps you sleep at night lol...

As for the tourist comment, if I had only been so lucky. It was work-related, unfortunately.

Yes, i caught my typo and corrected it from world to US..and that is what i meant. I never said you could come here and walk freely through the pink houses in East New York and feel safe, I meant that you can come to NYC and feel safer then walking through and other large city in this country. Ever these other cities they compare to New York as big don't nearly compare, NYC is a population of 8 million in the 5 boros.

[Scurvy]

When there is a body and it died by something other then natural causes...ie: gunshot wound, stabbing, beat to death that is a murder. That number has no bearing on arrests or convictions. And suicicde is not counted under that murder index

What about unk cause? Person drowned, fell off a building, strangled, hit by something?

I'm not trying to be a d*ck or anything, I'm just curious.

[Flashpoint]

I would dignify that with a response but what difference does it make?

It makes alot of difference implying the city is safe because only the police are allowed to carry handguns legally.

Just because someone wants to or does have a CCW permit and carries doesn't mean they are looking to or going to shoot anyone.

Criminals don't bother trying to get a permit to carry or buy guns they just buy illegally off the black market.

"Gun control" law do not effect them one bit.

[nsofokles]

What about unk cause? Person drowned, fell off a building, strangled, hit by something?

I'm not trying to be a d*ck or anything, I'm just curious.


Unknown causes would not be marked as murder unless they suspected foul play. But lets say there is a drowning that after investigation a year later is found out to have been murder...they add that to the murder count for the current year. So no matter when it is discovered it is always marked as murder if it was a murder.

[nsofokles]

It makes alot of difference implying the city is safe because only the police are allowed to carry handguns legally.

Just because someone wants to or does have a CCW permit and carries doesn't mean they are looking to or going to shoot anyone.

Criminals don't bother trying to get a permit to carry or buy guns they just buy illegally off the black market.

"Gun control" law do not effect them one bit.

You can't even carry a shotgun inside city limits according to admin code section 200 something. The reason for the kind of gun control laws NYC has is not really to detur crime it is because the average gun nut (such as the people on here) do not have the training and experience to decide when there is a shoot or don't shoot situation. There are so many people in NYC that id you decide to shoot you MUST have a very good legal reason, and civilians would wind up getting jammed up or killing as innocent bystander more then a perp. Civilians with guns can be a good thing and they have the right to posses them, there are just places, such as NYC, where it is better to leave it to the pros

[Flashpoint]

You can't even carry a shotgun inside city limits according to admin code section 200 something. The reason for the kind of gun control laws NYC has is not really to detur crime it is because the average gun nut (such as the people on here) do not have the training and experience to decide when there is a shoot or don't shoot situation. There are so many people in NYC that id you decide to shoot you MUST have a very good legal reason, and civilians would wind up getting jammed up or killing as innocent bystander more then a perp. Civilians with guns can be a good thing and they have the right to posses them, there are just places, such as NYC, where it is better to leave it to the pros


That's not even where I was going... but yes you must have a very good legal reason to shoot someone...

Again Not everyone is a "gun nut" and would be quick to use it. Most peolpe that carry don't ever have to use it. It's that one time that may save yours or someone else's life.

The "professionals" can't be everywhere all the time.

[nsofokles]

i agree with you there...and i also agree law abiding people should be allowed to carry weapons..but in a city of 37,000 police officers there is bound to be one around..let them handel it...there are two many people in this city for everyone to have a ccw

[in_burrito]

You guys are missing the point, who gives a damn if it's the safest big city? The point as pertains to THIS thread is that he thinks it's because of their gun control laws. If that's the case, you're going to have to explain DC, LA, San Fran, etc. and their ridiculously HIGH violent crime rate IN SPITE OF their strict gun control laws.

This is the same dipshit that thinks lowly non-LEO civilians shouldn't be able to own semi-automatic rifles either, and when I challenged him on it he tucked his tail between his legs and didn't post in the thread again.

This is the problem with most yankees, especially big city yankees. They grow up with the .gov thinking for them and they never develop the ability to think for themselves. Please oh please mr. big government, protect me from the big bad world. While you're at it, could you please protect me from myself?

[in_burrito]

By the way, nsofokles, you're a civilian too.

[nsofokles]

first of all i'm not a civilinan, i'm an officer with the NYPD. I also never said that the low crime rate it due to the strict gun control policies...all i said was because of the extremley large population of this city i think the gun control laws here are good. People should not be prancing around times square with a loaded handgun, it use spells trouble. Think before we talk, yankee

[White97z28]

Gun control laws don't prevent crimes......CCW do, you know why, because criminals don't care about the laws anyways. If your a criminal and EVERYBODY has a equal chance of being armed, you are probably gonna think twice about hurting/robbing/whatever to someone....

IMHO every state/city/town should be allowed to carry.....

[White97z28]

first of all i'm not a civilinan, i'm an officer with the NYPD


uhhh, your still a civilian.......

[nsofokles]

uhhh, your still a civilian.......

being a sworn member of a law enforcement agency makes you NOT a civilian...argue that all you want but it's the truth. Ask trooper if you need more proof then me.

US Department of Defense says all law enforcement is civilian, but the department says were not...take it as you will...either way it makes no difference to me...just another name

[Scurvy]

dictionary.com FTW

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/civilian

[stealthregal]

first of all i'm not a civilinan, i'm an officer with the NYPD.

Ahh, the elitist attitude. I have a badge and a gun so I am a professional. I have many friends that are police/feds and I would hardly say that they are all proficent with guns. Most are only at the range for their yearly qualification. Calling out "civilians" that have guns as gun nuts is telling enough into your views. I think racecar drivers should be the only ones that can have high horsepower autos. You should surrender your GTO since you are not a professional, you know for everyone's safety.


You can't even carry a shotgun inside city limits according to admin code section 200 something. The reason for the kind of gun control laws NYC has is not really to detur crime it is because the average gun nut (such as the people on here) do not have the training and experience to decide when there is a shoot or don't shoot situation.


Say, didn't your NYPD pals (aka gun professionals) unleash a hail of 50 rounds on three unarmed people last week? Professional, yea right.

[Scurvy]

Dude it's ok to bash NYC for being a cesspool or particular aspects of situation but usually the direct bashing of PD on this board isn't cool. Just cause we're having a disagreement over something doesn't give you the right to just barge into this thread and start bashing nsofokles just for being a NYPD ofc.

[stealthregal]

Dude it's ok to bash NYC for being a cesspool or particular aspects of situation but usually the direct bashing of PD on this board isn't cool. Just cause we're having a disagreement over something doesn't give you the right to just barge into this thread and start bashing nsofokles just for being a NYPD ofc.

Please re-read my post, I am not "bashing" the NYPD. I am pointing out that the very reason nsofokles states that blanket private gun ownership should be controlled/banned in NYC also affects police or "non-civilians". Did the police in this incident use good judgement and enough force to do the job? No, at best spraying 50 shots at 3 guys is considered trigger happy. Once again, please see nsofokles' post above in which civilians should not have guns for this very situation.

In conclusion, please re-read my post. I have good friends that are in the law enforcement field, they are good guys. My post was not about bashing police. It was about the attitude of I have something and the general public should not because I am a professional. Furthermore, I did not "barge into this thread", I have made responses to the topic at hand until it was hijacked with the aforementioned attitude.

[nsofokles]

Please re-read my post, I am not "bashing" the NYPD. I am pointing out that the very reason nsofokles states that blanket private gun ownership should be controlled/banned in NYC also affects police or "non-civilians". Did the police in this incident use good judgement and enough force to do the job? No, at best spraying 50 shots at 3 guys is considered trigger happy. Once again, please see nsofokles' post above in which civilians should not have guns for this very situation.

In conclusion, please re-read my post. I have good friends that are in the law enforcement field, they are good guys. My post was not about bashing police. It was about the attitude of I have something and the general public should not because I am a professional. Furthermore, I did not "barge into this thread", I have made responses to the topic at hand until it was hijacked with the aforementioned attitude.


Where did i ever say civilians shouldn't have guns? I didn't. I said in NYC cause of the large population its a good idea that we have more stringent gun laws. If you read above i actaully said citizens that carry is a good thing, just not in this city, again IMO. Also, i do not have an elitest attitude at all, i have spent nearly 160 hours at the range in order to qualify...i shot moving targets, stationary targets, i went through virtualy reality with the FATS system, i did tactical firearms in a apartment building with simunitions..i think i can say that i am proficient with firearms. If you think i have an elitest attitude think of this, my neighboors in my apartment don't even know i am a cop, no one except my friends and people on here do..i prefer to keep it a secret. And another thing, you have no idea what it's like to be a cop..if you keep up with the news they actually have come to find there was a 4th person in the car that ran away...and guess what he had a handgun and was shooting at the cops...now is 50 rounds excessive...no...asshole

[nsofokles]

dictionary.com FTW

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/civilian

thanks for that, it showed i was correct in my statement

[Scurvy]

now is 50 rounds excessive

I heard 30 something of those rounds came from one officer, showing there was a reload somewhere. If that's true then I think 50 rounds isn't excessive but 30 and change from one officer is.

[nsofokles]

I heard 30 something of those rounds came from one officer, showing there was a reload somewhere. If that's true then I think 50 rounds isn't excessive but 30 and change from one officer is.

he actually shot 31 rounds...and yes that did require a reload. I was not there so i can't judge the officer but it will be intersting to see what comes of it. I am sure he had some reason to keep shooting...it does sound excessive i'll admit but there could be a reason..especially if they find out this guy was shooting at the cops

[in_burrito]

being a sworn member of a law enforcement agency makes you NOT a civilian...argue that all you want but it's the truth. Ask trooper if you need more proof then me.

US Department of Defense says all law enforcement is civilian, but the department says were not...take it as you will...either way it makes no difference to me...just another name

Actually, it's not just another name. It indicates a state of mind and attitude, and the state of mind and attitude of those that don't understand that they are civilians is not good.

[dratnol]

Macdog,

How did things turn out with the CCW? Were you able to find a place that offered a class for a better price?

[dratnol]

Where did i ever say civilians shouldn't have guns? I didn't. I said in NYC cause of the large population its a good idea that we have more stringent gun laws. If you read above i actaully said citizens that carry is a good thing, just not in this city, again IMO. Also, i do not have an elitest attitude at all, i have spent nearly 160 hours at the range in order to qualify...i shot moving targets, stationary targets, i went through virtualy reality with the FATS system, i did tactical firearms in a apartment building with simunitions..i think i can say that i am proficient with firearms. If you think i have an elitest attitude think of this, my neighboors in my apartment don't even know i am a cop, no one except my friends and people on here do..i prefer to keep it a secret. And another thing, you have no idea what it's like to be a cop..if you keep up with the news they actually have come to find there was a 4th person in the car that ran away...and guess what he had a handgun and was shooting at the cops...now is 50 rounds excessive...no...asshole

Ok, I am in law enforcement and I think the event that was brought up is valid. The cops showed no situational awareness much less restraint with the use of force. If one person in a car (allegedly) brandished a firearm, you do not open fire randomly shooting at everything that moves. A least one cop had to stop and reload during the shooting. Earlier you said that "gun nuts" don't have training to know when to shoot/not shoot. I do not see any such training in the actions of these officers. Furthermore it is easier to become an officer in most states then to obtain a CCW. Heck, I know many CCW holders that have way more training then most cops. To say that NYC is safer since civilians cannot carry weapons is absurd. Criminals do not pay a lick of attention to the law, hence they are criminals. Police and criminals are the only ones that are armed in NYC. Why shouldn't a law abiding citizen be left out? The police cannot be everywhere all of the time. I feel that a person should be able to defend himself/herself to the extent necessary in relation to the threat.

Finally, what is up with your last line? You call the guy an asshole and say that 50 rounds are not excessive? Would you have said the same if the shooters had been civilians and not cops? I think he was trying to prove a point and name calling was uncalled for.

[chief_spinning_tires]

I have the upmost respect for police but anyone who considers me a nut because I own guns can lick my balls. It goes like this If you put the life of my family or myself in danger -- I shoot. You mind your business or get away when I draw, I dont shoot.

[stealthregal]

I have the upmost respect for police but anyone who considers me a nut because I own guns can lick my balls. It goes like this If you put the life of my family or myself in danger -- I shoot. You mind your business or get away when I draw, I dont shoot.

+1 Well said.

[stillgreedy]

Shoot the bastard. in the face