Which Rifle?

[danrieke]

Helped out a friend last week who needed fast cash.

Bought a couple Beretta handguns off him. Now jumping thru hoops here in Cali to make it all legal.

Step one, bought a nice gun safe. Room for rifles, too.

Getting a Remington shotgun, that much I've got figured out.

Would like to add a rifle to the mix. Perhaps a 30-06.

All this is for occassional target work, but mostly for home defense, or in case we get a 9.0 down here and "the system" falls apart for a couple months.

Anyway, recommendations on a good basic rifle that both me and the wife could deal with?

[mizzou1307]

If home defense is what you're after, that Remington should handle all your needs.

[Knightmare]

I can cut you a sweet deal on an ak-47 ;)

http://media.kn1ghtmare.com/guns/ak47wasr10/ak47-1.JPG

[danrieke]

If home defense is what you're after, that Remington should handle all your needs.

Yah. The rifle's not so much for typical home defense as for when the sh!t really hits the fan.

Ya know... megaquake, jihadists, supervolcano, the collapse of welfare, etc.

And, I don't believe AK-47s are legal in Cali. If so, I might consider, but I wanna stay on the right side of legal... even if I don't like the rules I don't wanna break 'em.

[Scurvy]

beretta cx4 storm carbine. should be cali legal. can take beretta92 mags too

[GTO4Ever]

I can cut you a sweet deal on an ak-47 ;)

http://media.kn1ghtmare.com/guns/ak47wasr10/ak47-1.JPG


how sweet?

[Midnight Goat]

I would check out an ar-15 for home d. Not sure about the legality in cali but i would imagine the laws are similar to commy new york. (no flash hider, no adjustable stocks, hi-cap mags, or bayo lug). In new york you can own pre-ban hi-cap mags not sure about cali probably not.

[machinistone]

Don't plan on using a rifle for home defense - that is what the shotgun and handgun are for.

I have a Walther P99 in .40SW and a winchester defender for fun and defense, my long range target rifle is a Remington 700P ("Police"- Heavy barrel, HS stock, 10x SS scope, bipod, etc.)

[paco04]

Lever action 30-30. Light, flat, little recoil, effective. Dosen't scream assault weapon, just infers that you're a good 'ol boy who just wants to protect things between deer seasons. They're a dime a dozen at gun shows, too.

[Konnie the Goat]

Im not up on Cali's gun laws (im afraid they'd make me crazy), but a 30-06 might be a little more kick for your wife, and is not ideal for home def. A shotgun with a pump action loaded with a nice heavy buck shot will deter most people. Also a .38 special or .357 mag revolver, or .40s&w or .45acp pistol make good defense weps. Not too much kick as to be hard to use, enough power to stop a person, and low chance of over penetration (which could hit a family member). Use a JHP for maximum damage (Its cheaper to just kill the threat than wound it), and lessen the risk of over penetrating more.

Rifles are not usually ideal for close defense, short barelled carbines are the exception, but bbl length is one of the things they go after with gun laws. They can also over penetrate like crazy. How ever, since you have a societal colapse threat there, i would say any AR 15 or 10 type weapon would be my pick. Light weight, common round, easy to use, little recoil. The 15 is a .223 remington (5.56mm NATO), with good balistics and accuracy, and the velocity to pack a nice punch. Same with the AR-10, but its a .308 winchester round (7.62mm NATO), so a little more distance and punch. Both rounds have a tendancy to tumble and nicely shred the insides of an aggressor. There are versions of these weapons that lack the feared pistol grip, and should be cali legal. There are also many older (but heavier) wood stocked rifles that use these same rounds, and are just as good, but have more recoil. The rounds are reasonable cost wise, both for purchase, and home reloading.
I would avoid the AK. Its a good weapon for bad conditions, because its poorly made. Its all stamped steel and plywood. Not very accurate, and the rounds have gotten kinda cashy. They used to be dirt cheap (and me and my dad never bothered reloading them) but someone restricted imports of the cheap ammo from russia and china. Its a good cheap weapon (and the most popular worldwide) but not really a good weapon.

[luke0927]

For home defense get a shotgun.....i use my handgun for my primary but my shotgun is close by.....get a pump they will know the sound when they hear it.

[Riddlefox]

Lever action 30-30. Light, flat, little recoil, effective. Dosen't scream assault weapon, just infers that you're a good 'ol boy who just wants to protect things between deer seasons. They're a dime a dozen at gun shows, too.

This is a pretty darned good suggestion.

Not sure if I'd go for a .30-06 for a SHTF weapon - a bit too heavy duty unless you're planning to go against some heavily armored zombies or something.

[NovaTodd]

For home defense get a shotgun.....i use my handgun for my primary but my shotgun is close by.....get a pump they will know the sound when they hear it.

Nothing like the sound of a pump action 12 ga to deter someone.....:wall:


AR-15s, -10s, AK-47 in most forms are banned if you don't already own one. You can now get models with fixed magazines that are legal, however, the ones I have seen are extremely pricy for what you actually get.

If you want a rifle, get a 10-22 for plinking and rabbits. The 30-30 is a good choice for all around. Plus both are realatively cheap to get

Now if I could get a FNFAL or G93 :yumyum:

[Rolencode GTO]

Danrike is talking more of a situation as if there was ever a riot/natural disaster/ people all going ape shet at the same time.

Dan, I purchased a Ruger Mini 30 just for that kind of thing last week, mini 30/mini 14 makes a good plinking rifle too. Nice thing is, it has detachable mags (which is one of the last rifles with detachable mags in cali). I also purchased a Savage 10FP with 20" heavy barrel (my sniper rifle).

You can buy an ar-15 but they are pretty much useless in cali if your going to use them in a emergency like your saying, because the cali model has to be loaded by opening the rifle with the takedown pin.

You can build an OLL lower(off list lower receiver) for an ar-15, but it's a touchy area of the law here in cali.

I say either Ruger mini 14/mini 30 or an M1a/socom if you can swing the cash.

I went with the Mini 30 because it was less expensive, has detachable mags and since I am an LEO I can get hi caps for it really cheap.

My list of "must have" guns that should be in the house are, a 12 gauge shotgun, a .45 cal pistol and at least one semi-auto rifle in either .223/7.62 or .308 just in case the shite really does hit the fan.

[Scurvy]

is the cx4 storm legal in cali?

[Rolencode GTO]

is the cx4 storm legal in cali?

Edited: No, not legal in CA.

[DeepBlueZ]

I would check out an ar-15 for home d. Not sure about the legality in cali but i would imagine the laws are similar to commy new york. (no flash hider, no adjustable stocks, hi-cap mags, or bayo lug). In new york you can own pre-ban hi-cap mags not sure about cali probably not.


Nah, some AR manufacturers make a special "California" rifle that includes a 10-round mag PERMANANTLY WELDED INTO THE RECEIVER.

You have to pop the rear take-down pin out and hinge the whole rifle open to load the magazine one round at a time....

besides, as mentioned, a .223 is an awful hot round for home security. Gonna be a lot of penetration there.

[Rolencode GTO]

besides, as mentioned, a .223 is an awful hot round for home security. Gonna be a lot of penetration there.

Yes, but Dan is speaking as if there was a national disaster or something of that nature. For example:

There had just been a 9.2 quake and people were looting/going nuts etc... Dan had to go out to his car and grab something, or possibly had to move his family on foot to a different location.

Dan happens to run into a guy or two that were armed or just out to rob/hurt people or whatever. They might even be wearing a ballistic vest so they would avoid being shot by cops while doing thier thing etc... A .223/7.62/.308 would make much more sense.

I know I may be getting to crazy there, but just making an example.

[DeepBlueZ]

Yes, but Dan is speaking as if there was a national disaster or something of that nature. For example:

There had just been a 9.2 quake and people were looting/going nuts etc... Dan had to go out to his car and grab something, or possibly had to move his family on foot to a different location.

Dan happens to run into a guy or two that were armed or just out to rob/hurt people or whatever. They might even be wearing a ballistic vest so they would avoid being shot by cops while doing thier thing etc... A .223/7.62/.308 would make much more sense.

I know I may be getting to crazy there, but just making an example.

just say zombie killers....makes perfect sense...:D

I'm well equipped for killing the undead...errr..again...:D :D

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/LS2Powered/ MyGuns.jpg?t=1172810718

[Scurvy]

Dan is genuinely concerned, like many people, with a zombie invasion

Edit:damn, deepblue beat me to it

[Knightmare]

yeah, that's what my AK-47 and K98 and Remington 870 P are for ;) The upcoming zombie invasion. The way I see it, it's pretty much a sure thing at this point...

[gametech]

Springfield is now making a chopped m14 with scout style scope mounts that would be great for SHTF.

[Knightmare]

it's called picking off zombies at 500+ yards...

http://media.kn1ghtmare.com/guns/kar98/k98scoped1. JPG

[Quantim0]

If you are planning an end of the world scenario in Cali I would go with a large caliber, accurate rifle. My dream would be this baby, Springfield National Match M1a. 20 rds of .308, super accurate, effective to 800+yds. Between that and my Ar-15 and 9mm Sig I'd be set for a while.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/hautlipz/MA 9222Large.jpg

[Rolencode GTO]

it's called picking off zombies at 500+ yards...

http://media.kn1ghtmare.com/guns/kar98/k98scoped1. JPG


Is that a 4x16x50 Muller Tac 4 scope?

[DeepBlueZ]

If you are planning an end of the world scenario in Cali I would go with a large caliber, accurate rifle. My dream would be this baby, Springfield National Match M1a. 20 rds of .308, super accurate, effective to 800+yds. Between that and my Ar-15 and 9mm Sig I'd be set for a while.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/hautlipz/MA 9222Large.jpg

big dollar rifle!!!

I REALLY want one of those two though eventually. :D

[Rolencode GTO]

just say zombie killers....makes perfect sense...:D

I'm well equipped for killing the undead...errr..again...:D :D

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/LS2Powered/ MyGuns.jpg?t=1172810718

Nice collection. Is that an AR-10 sitting down there?

[Knightmare]

nope, Barska 6-24x50 with illuminated range find optics

[Rolencode GTO]

nope, Barska 6-24x50 with illuminated range find optics


Nice. I just purchased a Burris Fullfield II 3x9x40 for my Savage 10FP .308, I am eventually going to buy a Leupold Mark 4, but for now I would rather spend the money on a Socom rifle instead:)

[Knightmare]

yeah, right now I'd rather spend money on nice rifles and cheap optics than the other way around... once I find a rifle I really like shooting i'll get a nice optic.

[DeepBlueZ]

Nice collection. Is that an AR-10 sitting down there?

Nah...never seen an AR-10 I could afford..:p

It's just an AR-15 A2 with a target barrel. That ones getting a scope, cheekpiece and grips soon. ;)

[machinistone]

Barska :nono:

[Knightmare]

BTW, I just put my AK47 up for sale in the Non-automotive For Sale forum. PM me if you're interested.

[Rolencode GTO]

BTW, I just put my AK47 up for sale in the Non-automotive For Sale forum. PM me if you're interested.


Wish I could buy it, but not CA legal:cry:

[mike100]

The shotgun is the most useful long gun for $200+ dollars, so that money won't be wasted. You can get a sporting length bbl and shoot clays or hunt birdies when the eotwawki is not emminent.

I have a springfield M1A in the .308 caliber. All the military calibers are seriously suffering from the inflation of the dollar plus supply and demand. .223 m16 ammo is even costly and all production is going to the military this year-no surplus.

all the cheap south african .308 surplus got bought up by the pallet load last year by collectors and survivalist types..ok I'll admit I'm stiing on 1500 rounds myself.

until 308 is back for 20 cents a round in surplus, I'm not shooting any. (I reload pistol calibers, but don't want to invest into rifle dies at this time).

I'll tell you what though, clunky $89 mosins and arsenal rebuilt $99 yugoslavian mausers at big five are a hoot and a cheap way to get into bolt action shooting. I have a couple of these that are tackdrivers at 100 yard ranges..better than my $1500 semi auto m1a.

the mosin caliber is still made as machinegun ammo and for certain dragonov sniper rifles so it isn't an obsolete caliber. you can buy 800- 900 round crates for $80 or something. I enjoy the bolt action rifles- you just don't burn thru major $ in ammo. 30-40 shots seems like a lot.

lastly..30-06 is expensive and the last military surplus -06 was korean war surplus (which you can still buy).

[foster'sguy]

just say zombie killers....makes perfect sense...:D

I'm well equipped for killing the undead...errr..again...:D :D

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/LS2Powered/ MyGuns.jpg?t=1172810718

Nice little M1 Carbine in your collection!

[speeddemon]

Im not up on Cali's gun laws (im afraid they'd make me crazy), but a 30-06 might be a little more kick for your wife, and is not ideal for home def. A shotgun with a pump action loaded with a nice heavy buck shot will deter most people. Also a .38 special or .357 mag revolver, or .40s&w or .45acp pistol make good defense weps. Not too much kick as to be hard to use, enough power to stop a person, and low chance of over penetration (which could hit a family member). Use a JHP for maximum damage (Its cheaper to just kill the threat than wound it), and lessen the risk of over penetrating more.

Rifles are not usually ideal for close defense, short barelled carbines are the exception, but bbl length is one of the things they go after with gun laws. They can also over penetrate like crazy. How ever, since you have a societal colapse threat there, i would say any AR 15 or 10 type weapon would be my pick. Light weight, common round, easy to use, little recoil. The 15 is a .223 remington (5.56mm NATO), with good balistics and accuracy, and the velocity to pack a nice punch. Same with the AR-10, but its a .308 winchester round (7.62mm NATO), so a little more distance and punch. Both rounds have a tendancy to tumble and nicely shred the insides of an aggressor. There are versions of these weapons that lack the feared pistol grip, and should be cali legal. There are also many older (but heavier) wood stocked rifles that use these same rounds, and are just as good, but have more recoil. The rounds are reasonable cost wise, both for purchase, and home reloading.
I would avoid the AK. Its a good weapon for bad conditions, because its poorly made. Its all stamped steel and plywood. Not very accurate, and the rounds have gotten kinda cashy. They used to be dirt cheap (and me and my dad never bothered reloading them) but someone restricted imports of the cheap ammo from russia and china. Its a good cheap weapon (and the most popular worldwide) but not really a good weapon.


The Russian who designed the most popular assault rifle ever made says the use of his gun in Iraq proves it is still superior to other weapons.

Mikhail Kalashnikov says, "Even after lying in a swamp you can pick up this rifle, aim it and shoot. That's the best job description there is for a gun. Real soldiers know that and understand it."

The 86-year-old gun maker says at a news conference in Moscow, Russia, "In Vietnam, American soldiers threw away their M-16 rifles and used (Kalashnikov) AK-47s from dead Vietnamese soldiers, with bullets they captured. That was because the climate is different to America, where M-16s may work properly."

He claims that U.S. soldiers are using the Kalashnikov rifle in Iraq, "Look what's happening now: every day on television we see that the Americans in Iraq have my machine guns and assault rifles in their armored vehicles. Even there American rifles don't work properly."

:banghead:

[speeddemon]

I like AR15s and AK's but after having a full auto M4 jam on me 3 times and then firing an ak for at least 3 mags straight without a single problem......my decision is not that hard....and FYI I was absolutely raking the car target with both.....the m4 was fun and damn accurate but I never doubt an ak thats for sure....my key with the ak-3-4 round short bursts.....and this is back when I was MUCH younger than now :stormtrooper:

[DriveTOOfast]

Lever action 30-30. Light, flat, little recoil, effective. Dosen't scream assault weapon, just infers that you're a good 'ol boy who just wants to protect things between deer seasons. They're a dime a dozen at gun shows, too.

+1 on that.
Easy to handle.
Compact.
Usable.
Heck, I bet you can use one without even having to ask or read a bunch of directions. Every kid who has ever seen a western knows how to handle a lever action.
One thing most people forget is to get a good supply of ammunition.
200 rounds minimum for a 30 day supply.
1000 rounds would be a lot better.
For your stash ammo don't have reloads. Buy some new ammo still in the factory box.

[Riddlefox]

Heh, the only time that I've ever laid hands on a NFA AK47, it jammed repeteadly. I even took a picture to prove it:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/RiddleFox/M isc/jammedak.jpg

AR-15's are probably less reliable than an AK47, but an AK47 isn't perfect either.

[Bruce98PaceCar]

My recommendation is to stick to nato ammo, cheap and easy to find. I would try:
AR 15
Ruger mini 14
Springfield M1A (check this out http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=18)

I can find nato rounds on sale all the time, good for the range and good for accuracy.

I can reach out and touch 1000 yards with 308

[Knightmare]

That's so strange, I've shot thousands of rounds through my AK and never had a mechanical jam, only misfires due to bad ammo.

[goatburger]

That's so strange, I've shot thousands of rounds through my AK and never had a mechanical jam, only misfires due to bad ammo.

Me to... I have an AK-74 that fires 5.45x39...gettin kinda hard to find that ammo now. I was planning on going to the gun show today or tomorrow to find some ammo an some more east german bakelite clips.
I was thinkin about getting an AR-15 M4 if I can find a good deal

[Knightmare]

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/browse/browseam mo.aspx?c=96&s=964

that's where I get a lot of my ammo from.

http://www.ammoman.com/index.htm

he has good deals sometimes too

[danrieke]

Everyone has been really helpful, and I appreciate it very much!

On several recommendations, went out today and purchased a new Remington 870 Express Mag synthetic... and the classes to go with it.

We'll prolly upgrade those handguns (Beretta Cougar .45 and Tomcat .32) at some point but that's not urgent.

Someone posted about the 30-06 being too much for the wife. Having fired those a few times in my youth in Wyoming, I agree.

Prolly a 30-30 or a .270 or so. Just wanna be able to reach and touch someone at 1/4 mile if Cali goes zombie-mode and we need to endure a couple months of riots, looting, starvation and epidemic before we transit out of here.

I know that's extreme, but I believe in being as prepared as one can reasonably be.

Later on we'll consider an assualt rifle.

Thanks again to everyone who supports the Bill of Rights!

[ruski]

Heh, the only time that I've ever laid hands on a NFA AK47, it jammed repeteadly. I even took a picture to prove it:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/RiddleFox/M isc/jammedak.jpg

AR-15's are probably less reliable than an AK47, but an AK47 isn't perfect either.

Was that a Chinese or a Romanian one?

[ruski]

Look up these.

www.robarm.com/RA_vepr2_762x39mm.htm

AK47 with the beefier machine gun receiver

[jday240]

I have a Walther P99 in .40 caliber for carry and a Glock 22 .40 caliber that stays at home with the wife. I have a JLD Enterprises PTR-91 .308 (new version of the HK91) for a good general purpose rifle. I have a Ruger 10/22 for target/plinking and an SKS because it shoots well and was cheap. I feel like a 12 gauge pump and a 1911 will round out my collection.

I recommend the PTR-91 for a good all around rifle.

[ericguy320]

home defense, get a shotgun. ak is sweet looking and cheap but only if you want to hit the broad side of a barn AR-15, mini 30 and M1 garand are some great rifle's the M1 can really fcuk some shti up.

[goatburger]

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/browse/browseam mo.aspx?c=96&s=964

that's where I get a lot of my ammo from.

http://www.ammoman.com/index.htm

he has good deals sometimes too


Thanks Knightmare...almost forgot about sportsmansguide. The finally have some in stock.

For anyone who is looking for a 12ga shotgun and an assault rifle...the Saiga-12 is the one to get. An absolute blast to shoot and based on the ak47 style receiver. I like mine, as fast as you can pull the trigger the shells fly

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b198/machburger/ Housecontents4-wheelers016.jpg

[mike100]

...

Later on we'll consider an assualt rifle.

...

not in CA you won't.

(there is kind of a loophole called off-list-lowers, but it is very restricted and you better know what you are doing).

[seewiz]

If you're getting a Remington 870, go get the 20" cylinder bore barrel for it, and the magizine extention. Then you can quickly convert it to riot work. Even if no mag conversion, pull the mag plug and get the 20" barrel. Or just buy the Mossberg roit gun. Use 1 OZ dove loads, only penetrates 1 wall and delivers 2x .44 mag energy on target at room ranges. NOBODY argues with a 12 ga.
9MM and smaller are good only for popping poodles EXCEPT the .22 rifles and wheel guns. Buy a couple of those and a dozen bricks of mini-mags.
If you're dead set on a rifle, you can't go wrong with a Remington 700 in .308

[Riddlefox]

Was that a Chinese or a Romanian one?

That was a real deal Russian full-auto registered Class III AK-47. The owner had a truck full of really interesting toys. He offered to let us shoot some of the guns if we helped him clean up the range (it was a great plinking spot out in the middle of nowhere that was popular with shooters, but too many people would just drag their trash out there and leave it). Of course, we gladly accepted. He even provided the ammo. The AK47 worked fine at first but once it heated up, the guy holding it (with the one glove, it got HOT) could only get one or two rounds off at a time.

[goatburger]

Anyone know what's a good price for a M1A?

[Swampgoat]

..Or just buy the Mossberg riot gun. Use 1 OZ dove loads, only penetrates 1 wall and delivers 2x .44 mag energy on target at room ranges. NOBODY argues with a 12 ga...


Yup. 12ga, short barrel, pistol grip, cheap, bullet-proof. Bird loads in mine too. Better to make hamburger in a hurry at close range without taking out the kids or knocking a hole in the dog with buckshot bouncing off the tile.
In the dark, I'd rather have 100s of little pellets than 15 trying to hit a guy.
Birdshot at close range is a trauma surgeons worst nightmare. No lawsuit.

[DeepBlueZ]

Yup. 12ga, short barrel, pistol grip, cheap, bullet-proof. Bird loads in mine too. Better to make hamburger in a hurry at close range without taking out the kids or knocking a hole in the dog with buckshot bouncing off the tile.
In the dark, I'd rather have 100s of little pellets than 15 trying to hit a guy.
Birdshot at close range is a trauma surgeons worst nightmare. No lawsuit.


i'm going to second this. I use an ounce of #2 shot in mine...

[shrike]

Anyone know what's a good price for a M1A?

remember that there are various grades.....

Standard
Loaded
National match
super match.

and the knock offs - ie, Polytech

the asian knock offs can be like $700 or so - a Springfield supermatch with the McMillian synthetic marine cammo stock might run around $2,800.

But a vintage Devine (San Antonio mfg) could be several times that.$$$$$$$$


www.gunbroker.com

www.creedmoorsports.com

[talionstallion21]

I bought a new basic version of the Springfield M1A in .308 about 5-6 years ago. I think it was around $1200 back then. I like the gun alot, but it's long, about 44 inches. I am considering a new M1 carbine that Auto Ordnance makes in 30 caliber. I like the Beretta handguns, I have four, the most recent I bought last week was the 9000S in 40s&w. Bought it used and really like how it shoots and feels. Very little recoil and is a good carry piece. My house gun is a Para Ordnance full size .45acp, holds 14 rounds. I like guns and you can never have enough of them.

[DeepBlueZ]

I bought a new basic version of the Springfield M1A in .308 about 5-6 years ago. I think it was around $1200 back then. I like the gun alot, but it's long, about 44 inches. I am considering a new M1 carbine that Auto Ordnance makes in 30 caliber. I like the Beretta handguns, I have four, the most recent I bought last week was the 9000S in 40s&w. Bought it used and really like how it shoots and feels. Very little recoil and is a good carry piece. My house gun is a Para Ordnance full size .45acp, holds 14 rounds. I like guns and you can never have enough of them.

By all means go for the M1 carbine.....

I absolutely love mine. More than anything, it's just plain fun to shoot. VERY light recoil, not even all that noisy, and pretty accurate out to about a buck 50 or so.

[speeddemon]

By all means go for the M1 carbine.....

I absolutely love mine. More than anything, it's just plain fun to shoot. VERY light recoil, not even all that noisy, and pretty accurate out to about a buck 50 or so.
winchester?

[speeddemon]

That was a real deal Russian full-auto registered Class III AK-47. The owner had a truck full of really interesting toys. He offered to let us shoot some of the guns if we helped him clean up the range (it was a great plinking spot out in the middle of nowhere that was popular with shooters, but too many people would just drag their trash out there and leave it). Of course, we gladly accepted. He even provided the ammo. The AK47 worked fine at first but once it heated up, the guy holding it (with the one glove, it got HOT) could only get one or two rounds off at a time.
the one I shot also was getting VERY hot and I couldnt even hold the front handguard it was so hot....one of the idiots there who was loading ammo kept shooting the AK before I got the chance to.... :cursin: I now Know why the romanians made the hand grip for it ;)

[Knightmare]

I love the Remington 700 Varmint Synthetic Fluted rifle. Great rifle, specially with a nice optic mounted on it.

[speeddemon]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/srt4owner22 2/47449546.gif
:D :D :D

[Scurvy]

awesome animation

[dozlert]

A cheap pump shotgun is perfect for home defense.

[DeepBlueZ]

winchester?

Nah, mine's an Iver-Johnson.

[stillgreedy]

I need one of those

[danrieke]

not in CA you won't.

(there is kind of a loophole called off-list-lowers, but it is very restricted and you better know what you are doing).

If I melted it down, encased it in a block of concrete, and stuffed in a safe I could!

That way the criminals are sure to get me before I can shoot back.

That way more cops are needed.

So we can have more taxes.

So how it all works out so nicely?

I'm tellin' ya, California's got it together, ma-n!

Ain't no gun crime here, sheeeeeet!

Well, maybe a little... but all those are from strictly registered guns and strictly legal owners... that way the cops can prevent the crimes before they happen!

OK?

[speeddemon]

Nah, mine's an Iver-Johnson.

teh rare for sure damn :eek:

[seewiz]

i'm going to second this. I use an ounce of #2 shot in mine...

Dump the pistol grip. All that does is put all the recoil into your wrist. With a full stock you can have a 3 point grip on the weapon; slide, wrist and stock to sholder or clamped under arm, and you cannot properly buttstroke somebody with a pistol grip.

[seewiz]

Dump the pistol grip. All that does is put all the recoil into your wrist. With a full stock you can have a 3 point grip on the weapon; slide, wrist and stock to sholder or clamped under arm, and you cannot properly buttstroke somebody with a pistol grip.

[speeddemon]

double posts :bomb:

[SK360]

http://sniperkil.home.comcast.net/IMG_0069.jpg

theres my home defense/zombie attack rifle :)

Bushmaster M4A3 (patrolmans model)
Vltor CASV-EL free floating hand guards
Tangodown vertical forward grip
ARMS 40L flip up rear sight

[DeepBlueZ]

Dump the pistol grip. All that does is put all the recoil into your wrist. With a full stock you can have a 3 point grip on the weapon; slide, wrist and stock to sholder or clamped under arm, and you cannot properly buttstroke somebody with a pistol grip.

I was referring mostly to the part about using large bird loads over 00 buck.

My Mossberg 590 has a full stock. I've fired the same gun with a pistol grip and I don't like it all that much. ;)

[stillgreedy]

use a punt gun lol.