Update - Eagle F1 GS D3 Problems

[ShoddyHog]

This is an update to the original thread I posted (http://www.ls2gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169 006) about problems with my new tires.

While waiting about 3 weeks to get two new tires for the right side, the car had gotten pretty bad. It shook horribly in the morning or any time I let it sit long enough for the tires to cool down. Once they heated up, the vibration wasn't as bad, but still very noticable around and below 50. The noise was terrible, and was so bad around 40-50 that you had to adjust the stereo volume if listening to talk shows, and it would interfere with conversation.

On Friday, they put her on the rack, and the store manager changed the tire. He showed me that the right front inner edge tread patches were chewed up and raised on one edge...not smooth. So we decided on one tire, and he told me that he thought it was most likely a problem with the alignment. Well, that was for sure the problem, because it was just night and day...maybe a hint of noise and a slight vibration, but very slight.

I drove it all weekend, and put as many miles as I could. I threw her into some hard turns, and put about 600 miles or so on them. This morning when I got up and went to work...vibration and noise. I could feel it coming back as the weekend wore on. What I can't believe is that after having my alignment done at the dealer and running the old tires that long, that all of a sudden the alignment is chewing up tires.

As it just so happens, my differential seal came in, so I'm having the dealer check the alignment tomorrow. I'll let you know, but I just find this so unusual. I mean there was NONE of this...NOTHING with the stock tires all the way down to almost cord showing. They were smooth as silk. $1,100 Goodyears though? I guess I'm to believe that after 34k my suspension just happened to shit itself.

Any ideas what's going on? I'll make sure to get a printout from the alignment tomorrow.

Gerry

[J.E.T.]

I ran these tires for a while but when we rotated them we couldn't get the balance back for some reason. Not sold on any Goodyear tire personally. Dealer will get your alignment to spec but as far as tires are concerned I think I'd go to something else. I like the Michelin PS2's.........

JET

[ShoddyHog]

I ran these tires for a while but when we rotated them we couldn't get the balance back for some reason. Not sold on any Goodyear tire personally. Dealer will get your alignment to spec but as far as tires are concerned I think I'd go to something else. I like the Michelin PS2's.........

JET

These may very well be the last set of Goodyears I put on a car.

Just got her back, and the only spec that was out was the camber on the right front. Sheet is out in the car, but I believe I was 1.5 and the spec is 0.5 +- 0.3.

So now I'm going to have a decision to make...make them balance & rotate again and keep the tires hoping it is not a two-year, $1,100 annoyance, or swap them out for another brand right now.

Gerry

[J.E.T.]

These may very well be the last set of Goodyears I put on a car.

Just got her back, and the only spec that was out was the camber on the right front. Sheet is out in the car, but I believe I was 1.5 and the spec is 0.5 +- 0.3.

So now I'm going to have a decision to make...make them balance & rotate again and keep the tires hoping it is not a two-year, $1,100 annoyance, or swap them out for another brand right now.

Gerry

Know what you mean........personally tires are THE most important part of my car. I don't take chances with safety...........good luck.

JET

[1969+37=2006]

I don't think they are worth the money. For the price they should be perfect.

[ShoddyHog]

I don't think they are worth the money. For the price they should be perfect.

Luckily, the manager at the local Goodyear thinks so too. I took the printout to him today and discussed the options and such. He's assured me he'll make it right whatever it takes, even if I decided to swap the out on Michelins or something else. I've been a loyal customer, and they've been good to me.

The thing is that other than the balance/noise problem I had, I like the tire on the car. Seems like a better ride, yet more control in the corners, and the traction is much better than stock, esp. in a WOT turn exit. I lay on her now in spots that would have set me sideways before.

I'm going to have them rotate and balance them once, and if anything at all comes back in the next month/5k or so, I'm swapping them out.

Here's the alignment sheet. I'm sure some folks here know what everything means. I know the basics.

Gerry

Edit: Hey, wait a minute. Isn't the DRIVERS side out of camber?

http://www.ls2gto.com/forums/attachment.php?attach mentid=62746&stc=1&d=1185323207

[J.E.T.]

Personally I'd switch 'em out now.........


JET

[1stSgtUSMC]

Personally I'd switch 'em out now.........


JET

I agree.

For what it is worth, I bought these for my Chrysler 300M (3.5L 4 door) around 4 years ago and had nothing but headaches with them from day one. Prior to buying them I read all the reviews on TireRack.com, etc, and everything pointed to them being the best thing since sliced bread. Nothing could have been further from the truth. Never could get them balanced correctly, let them sit overnight and they grew flat spots that you could still feel after driving for 20 minutes and on top of all that they lasted 5,000 miles before they were bald, again, on a 300M not exactly a sports car. I would never buy them again. Good luck.

[HORTENSE]

:confused: these tires are noisy? What kind of conditions are you running them in?

I have the same setup as you (stock 18's, 245), and havent run into the problems you're describing. I just have stock power / stock suspension, and i'm usually on the highway, this is with at least 3,000 miles on them. the only thing I get is (i think) my tires are rubbing the struts when i take corners really hard

the wheels are not the problem? could you balance them with another set of tires?

[2004blkgtostpmn]

Wow!!! That's something new to me... My goodyear F1 GS D3 are 9k old and no problems. I love these tires.

[ShoddyHog]

Prior to buying them I read all the reviews on TireRack.com, etc, and everything pointed to them being the best thing since sliced bread.

Same here. I believe I only read one or two bad comments about the tire, and the rest make it sound like you describe.

...and they grew flat spots that you could still feel after driving for 20 minutes...

I believe that for 100% sure. If I park the thing long enough for the tires to cool, I have to drive it a while before they smooth out.

And on a personal note, thank you for your service to our country.

Gerry

[ShoddyHog]

:confused: these tires are noisy? What kind of conditions are you running them in?

I have the same setup as you (stock 18's, 245), and havent run into the problems you're describing. I just have stock power / stock suspension, and i'm usually on the highway, this is with at least 3,000 miles on them. the only thing I get is (i think) my tires are rubbing the struts when i take corners really hard

the wheels are not the problem? could you balance them with another set of tires?

Not trying to be an ass here...but I think I've pretty much answered your questions if you read the original post I linked in at the top.

the wheels are not the problem? could you balance them with another set of tires?

Stock tires with 34k on them were running SMOOTH as GLASS on this car and the problems have surfaced without changing my driving habits at all.

I also have no strut rub. I've checked both sides every time a tire is removed.

Gerry

[ShoddyHog]

Wow!!! That's something new to me... My goodyear F1 GS D3 are 9k old and no problems. I love these tires.

The service manager at the Pontiac shop that did the alignment yesterday said, "Good luck. We've had a lot of problems with people trying to run that tire on that car." That may not be word-for-word what he said, but pretty darn close.

Gerry

[TriflowM5+M3]

Hog,

im really sorry to hear that you are still dealing with the same issues...if you havent already, I would post your issue in the Suspension and brakes forum as to me it really sounds like you have a serious issue with some bits in the suspension causing the nasty alignment specs.

maybe those guys that frequent there...(read: Pedders guys) can shed some more light than those of us who more frequently visit the tire forum.

[GTO1_OHIO]

I currently have 26K on mine (cars got 42K) and have had no problems with them. They also have half the tread left and the wear is even. I had a full Pedders install + both cradles and 4 wheel alignment about 5K miles ago and even after that didn't have to rebalanced the tires. Fact is they have the original balance. ...so it can be done. :oldfogey:

...I'd get you my alignment specs but they wouldn't help since I'm no longer stock. Did notice that you have 18's ...maybe thats got something to do with it.

[ShoddyHog]

Hog,

im really sorry to hear that you are still dealing with the same issues...if you havent already, I would post your issue in the Suspension and brakes forum as to me it really sounds like you have a serious issue with some bits in the suspension causing the nasty alignment specs.

maybe those guys that frequent there...(read: Pedders guys) can shed some more light than those of us who more frequently visit the tire forum.

I already did. From what I've gathered, my illusion that someone could look at an alignment printout and at least be able to tell the average Joe if it looks like the shop did it right was just that. An illusion.

Apparently, there is no such thing as correct alignment specs, and everything is up to the interpretation of the person doing the alignment based off of your driving habits and conditions.

Now, since I'm 44 and have had a hell of a lot of alignments, that means that every SOB that's done my cars has ripped me off, because none of them, including the one this week, asked me about my driving habits.

What I'd really hoped was for someone to just tell me if the alignment could be causing premature tire wear, but alas...out of all the experts we have here, that question is unanswerable. At that point, I made a comment about wanting to commit suicide and have decided to just drive the hell out of the car and shave the tires at every intersection to keep them round.

And its not just that I paid $85 and still haven't a clue if it was well spent or not, I also found that the shop dented my car. It's not a big dent, and nobody will notice...but I did, so I will always see it and know it is there. I'd go back and bitch about it, but I fear I'd regret my actions.

Oh well.
Gerry

[J.E.T.]

FYI, every tire made is different, even the same brand, model, etc. Some get good ones, some get not so good ones, that's why I have all my tires shaved and balanced on-car, including my $460 Michelins. You just got some bad tires, that's all. Have your dealer switch them out, problem solved.

JET

[Gears for Brains]

I won't claim to be an expert, but that alignment sheet looks OK. Everything is within tolerance, and most are near the center of the range. Left front camber could be a few tenths more negative, Justice Pete suggests -0.4 degrees. Left rear camber is near the low limit, but not adjustable without eccentric bushings. Unless you ask for something specific, I think most shops will just try to get things within the spec and call it good.

Were the tires road-force balanced? (sorry, I didn't go back thru your earlier thread). The Goodyear store supposedly did this with mine.

Its frustrating when you have to go back and do things over, but I'd give it one more shot with the GS-D3's.

dms posted a "suspension inspection" thread some time back. Search for that and check everything over really good. Your miles are up in the range where there could be issues developing. The new tires may be more sensitive to suspension compliance than your old, not-quite-so-high-performance tires.

[ShoddyHog]

FYI, every tire made is different, even the same brand, model, etc. Some get good ones, some get not so good ones, that's why I have all my tires shaved and balanced on-car, including my $460 Michelins. You just got some bad tires, that's all. Have your dealer switch them out, problem solved.

JET

They put on a new tire - problem not solved...the problem is coming back.

You paid $460/tire? At least that makes me feel better :D

Gerry

[ShoddyHog]

I won't claim to be an expert, but that alignment sheet looks OK. Everything is within tolerance, and most are near the center of the range. Left front camber could be a few tenths more negative, Justice Pete suggests -0.4 degrees. Left rear camber is near the low limit, but not adjustable without eccentric bushings. Unless you ask for something specific, I think most shops will just try to get things within the spec and call it good.

Were the tires road-force balanced? (sorry, I didn't go back thru your earlier thread). The Goodyear store supposedly did this with mine.

Its frustrating when you have to go back and do things over, but I'd give it one more shot with the GS-D3's.

dms posted a "suspension inspection" thread some time back. Search for that and check everything over really good. Your miles are up in the range where there could be issues developing. The new tires may be more sensitive to suspension compliance than your old, not-quite-so-high-performance tires.

Thank you for the advice. No they were not road force balanced. I paid $1,150 for the tires and $80 for the alignment, so another charge to take it elsewhere for that will be a last resort for me. Maybe that's the key though...this is the first time since I've owned the car where someone other than a dealer balanced them.

And thank you for the comment about the alignment. I just hope that whatever they adjusted makes a difference. I have an appointment to have them rotated and balanced after work.

Gerry

[GTOmikeJ]

the only problem ive had with the tires is they seem to wear down the tread pretty quick. but i do have quite a few track passes with these tires. they hook pretty well for street tires at too. i really like them all and all.

[ShoddyHog]

Thanks for all the help folks. I had her balanced and rotated this afternoon, and it felt great when I left. I put somewhere around 80 miles on her tonight, and I don't know if it is just paranoia on my part, but it felt like it was coming back. I'll detail her and go cruising this weekend, so I should hopefully know something soon.

I was cleaning my daughter's camera out to give it back to her, and guess what I found?

A video file of my brand new Eagle F1 GS D3s with about 2000 miles on them (http://www.carbondaleporkdistrict.com/forum/GTOSh akin.wmv)

If you turn it up, you can hear three things. The tires, my radio tuned to 1120 AM, and in the background, my Kooks headers.

Gerry

[Jim346]

All I know is my steering wheel doesn't shake like that at 50mph.

Personally, I'll never buy another goodyear tire. I had eagle HP ultras on an LS1 TA years ago, the sidewalls cracked and split apart after 6 months...it looked like the tires were 20 years old. The goodyear store basically told me to get ****ed.

[t65tampa]

Thanks for all the help folks. I had her balanced and rotated this afternoon, and it felt great when I left. I put somewhere around 80 miles on her tonight, and I don't know if it is just paranoia on my part, but it felt like it was coming back. I'll detail her and go cruising this weekend, so I should hopefully know something soon.

I was cleaning my daughter's camera out to give it back to her, and guess what I found?

A video file of my brand new Eagle F1 GS D3s with about 2000 miles on them (http://www.carbondaleporkdistrict.com/forum/GTOSh akin.wmv)

If you turn it up, you can hear three things. The tires, my radio tuned to 1120 AM, and in the background, my Kooks headers.

Gerry

You get way better gas mileage than me.
I am trying to figure out what tire to get when I replace my OEM set. The Eagle F1 was on my list, until I saw your post.

[ShoddyHog]

You get way better gas mileage than me.
I am trying to figure out what tire to get when I replace my OEM set. The Eagle F1 was on my list, until I saw your post.

I need coffee. I read your post first, and I was like HUH? How the hell does he know anything about my ga.....oh, duh. lol That's actually pretty low for me. If you notice, the average speed was 40 something, so I'd been off the highway. If I'd been off a highway run, it would be in the 20's.

Don't know what to tell you on the tire. I didn't find but one bad comment on these tires until I got them and started having problems. Now, I've hear quite a few. It is a shame too. I love the ride and handling of the tire...for the first few miles anyway.

In all fairness to the tire, Charlotte seems to be a very particular bitch. Some people ran the old Kooks LT just fine, but she didn't. Some people run Amsoil in the differential, and she'll have none of that. Might be that she just doesn't like Goodyear. I still love her though...getting ready to go out, change the oil, wash her up, and go cruising.

Gerry

[GvilleGTO]

Sorry to Read your problems with your GS-D3's. I've had good luck with mine. The list of Tires that will fit out Goat's and be safe at the speeds they can see is small. I've modified my suspension so alignment is very tricky and some alignment shops will not align to my specs - they claim they can't align outside of the ranges they have regarding the GTO.

Once you find an alignment shop that will work with you and the tricky stock/modified specs we have , you still have the mounting procedure that they may or may not do (hand torque star pattern to 50 then to 95 lbs at each corner) and as mentioned the roundness of any Tire . Air wrenching any Tires on our hubs and you are only lucky if vibration problems are not present. My experience is that you get a choice : tire wear vs. handling/cornering. Factor in potential strut rub ; road crowning ; your high speed requirements , and the outcome is that the GTO requires a Custom Alignment with most likely several return visits to get it dialed in...

My stock Tires lasted 20k, my first set of GS-D3's last 31k , and now I have 13k on the second set of GS-D3's and for me they are great. The stock GR's would loose traction too much for me at WOT. The quality of all Tires has changed alot in the last 5 years: Once you find a Tire Store that treats you right you are half way home - then comes the fun of getting Tires to interact correctly with our touchy suspensions - regardless of which Tires and the Cash spent on them...

We all have problems in one area or another on our Goats , but with enough time , energy and money most can be fixed : the cost of ownership when it comes to limited edition high performance vehicles...:):burnout:

[ShoddyHog]

Sorry to Read your problems with your GS-D3's. I've had good luck with mine. The list of Tires that will fit out Goat's and be safe at the speeds they can see is small. I've modified my suspension so alignment is very tricky and some alignment shops will not align to my specs - they claim they can't align outside of the ranges they have regarding the GTO.

Once you find an alignment shop that will work with you and the tricky stock/modified specs we have , you still have the mounting procedure that they may or may not do (hand torque star pattern to 50 then to 95 lbs at each corner) and as mentioned the roundness of any Tire . Air wrenching any Tires on our hubs and you are only lucky if vibration problems are not present. My experience is that you get a choice : tire wear vs. handling/cornering. Factor in potential strut rub ; road crowning ; your high speed requirements , and the outcome is that the GTO requires a Custom Alignment with most likely several return visits to get it dialed in...

My stock Tires lasted 20k, my first set of GS-D3's last 31k , and now I have 13k on the second set of GS-D3's and for me they are great. The stock GR's would loose traction too much for me at WOT. The quality of all Tires has changed alot in the last 5 years: Once you find a Tire Store that treats you right you are half way home - then comes the fun of getting Tires to interact correctly with our touchy suspensions - regardless of which Tires and the Cash spent on them...

We all have problems in one area or another on our Goats , but with enough time , energy and money most can be fixed : the cost of ownership when it comes to limited edition high performance vehicles...:):burnout:

The Goodyear shop manager is taking care of me. I've done a lot of business with them in the past as well. Unfortunately, these are going to come off. Balanced & rotated on Thurs., and the car sat until this morning. When I hit the highway, it was shaking so bad it was shaking my vision. Worse than what that video showed. They did smooth out after 15 minutes, but still are going south quickly.

Don't know what to say or think...just hope it doesn't happen with the next set I put on. Suspension upgrade is out of the question for now.

Gerry

[J.E.T.]

Don't know what size you're running but the only tire I would consider other than Michelins is the Toyo's..........JMO.

JET

[mr.jason]

I have these on my 99TA and they have preformed flawlessly, best tire I have ever driven a car on. Must have got a fluke bad set it happens.

[Goataroni]

Hi all, sorry to resurrect a pretty old thread.

I just had a set of these put on this past weekend myself on my '06 goat. I used the stock spec, 235/40/18 and at first thought everything was gravy minus a little bit of a droning noise I attributed to the tire being new. Even had the car aligned after the tire mounting.

Well, to pull into my driveway, one has to turn the wheel *all* the way to the right, and when doing so, I heard a pretty scary popping noise. So I experimented a little, and found that whenever I turn all the way to the right or left, the tire will hit the strut (specifically, the flat-like piece that hangs out over the tire, I'm not sure of its name).

This really surprises me, as this is the stock 235 width tire. I'm not sure if it's an alignment issue or not, I don't think adjusting the camber will really make a difference in this case or not. Maybe a combination of wheel spacers and an alignment job? But this is BS on factory spec tires. Best bet just to go back and bitch to the tire shop? :banghead:

[ShoddyHog]

I have these on my 99TA and they have preformed flawlessly, best tire I have ever driven a car on. Must have got a fluke bad set it happens.

I've been meaning to write a "final" post on these tires to close this issue, but haven't gotten a chance yet.

About 2,000 miles or so, the Goodyear shop put on a brand new set of the same tires and I've had no problems with them. I was going to take it in and have them re-balance them because I thought I could feel a slight vibration, but it is so very slight it isn't really worth my time.

As far as contacting the strut goes, each and every time I've had the tires off, I've inspected for contact, and could not find any evidence even with the 245's. I do, however, see evidence of contact on the plastic fender liner when the wheel is turned full left or right. I consider that to be insignificant.

Gerry

[macer]

I've been meaning to write a "final" post on these tires to close this issue, but haven't gotten a chance yet.

About 2,000 miles or so, the Goodyear shop put on a brand new set of the same tires and I've had no problems with them. I was going to take it in and have them re-balance them because I thought I could feel a slight vibration, but it is so very slight it isn't really worth my time.

As far as contacting the strut goes, each and every time I've had the tires off, I've inspected for contact, and could not find any evidence even with the 245's. I do, however, see evidence of contact on the plastic fender liner when the wheel is turned full left or right. I consider that to be insignificant.

Gerry


So your final review is positive? you just got a bad set of tires? (read the whole story...along with your initial search)

Also, how quiet are the tires compared to the OEM 18's? I am replacing mine soon, and want a quieter tire...texas highways are pretty loud and crappy..

[ShoddyHog]

So your final review is positive? you just got a bad set of tires? (read the whole story...along with your initial search)

Also, how quiet are the tires compared to the OEM 18's? I am replacing mine soon, and want a quieter tire...texas highways are pretty loud and crappy..

I think I had at least one bad tire, and a couple other problems that made things worse. And yes, my overall review is positive. They are louder than the stock Potenza's, but not horrible.

Gerry

[asaberan]

So when they replaced a tire, they only did one or do you think maybe they were pulling a fast one on ya? That's pretty unbelievable that you got >1 bad tire and then when they replace all of them, they are perfectly fine. Maybe they had a bad batch or something?

Do you have any experience in adverse weather with these tires? In the horrible event that my GTO becomes my daily driver (see sig for mileage on my current one) I was planning on replacing the tires with Eagle F1's. Also, if I am reading correctly, you have 245's on stock 18" wheels with a completely stock suspension, right?

[macer]

I think I had at least one bad tire, and a couple other problems that made things worse. And yes, my overall review is positive. They are louder than the stock Potenza's, but not horrible.

Gerry


Hrm, thats unfortunate about the noise level. I really want something quieter...Odd that the tirerack ratings on the F1 has it down as being a very quiet tire.

I'll start a thread checking to see if there are any "quiet" high performance tires out there.

[ShoddyHog]

So when they replaced a tire, they only did one or do you think maybe they were pulling a fast one on ya? That's pretty unbelievable that you got >1 bad tire and then when they replace all of them, they are perfectly fine. Maybe they had a bad batch or something?

Do you have any experience in adverse weather with these tires? In the horrible event that my GTO becomes my daily driver (see sig for mileage on my current one) I was planning on replacing the tires with Eagle F1's. Also, if I am reading correctly, you have 245's on stock 18" wheels with a completely stock suspension, right?

I'm sure the Goodyear shop has not tried to pull any fast ones on me. Every decision - including to stick with the Eagles - has been my decision alone with the blessing of the manager Shannon. I *think* it was a bad tire, but could have been a bad batch completely. They replaced the entire set because I found out that at some point (perhaps even from the beginning), they overinflated the tires. I discovered it on a visual inspection, and saw that the center tread of the tires had severe wear.

My first and only adverse weather driving was yesterday when I got caught out in the rain. Unfortunately, I didn't think to do a lot of testing because mine is not my daily driver either.

Gerry

[zech912]

Hrm, thats unfortunate about the noise level. I really want something quieter...Odd that the tirerack ratings on the F1 has it down as being a very quiet tire.

I'll start a thread checking to see if there are any "quiet" high performance tires out there.

I have the F1s, 275x35x18 and 255x40x18. They made a great improvement in ride over stock tires. I had to take them off for a week until I got stiffer (Pedders) rear springs, could not wait to get them back on. I would not have called them noisier but I am not disputing someone else's experience.