Tried some handguns

[ruski]

I had some time to kill before flying home form Seattle***. We spotted a gun range in Bellevue and decided to stop by.

We tried a KAHR 9mm, Kimber Ultra Carry .45, Springfield XD40, and Sig-Sauer 9mm.

I liked the Kimber the best. I was expecting stronger kick from .45, but I was surprised at how smooth it was and I got all my shots right in the bulls eye.

I made enemies with the XD40. Upon inserting the clip, it chopped off the skin on my pinky and made me bleed :) I wasn't too impressed with the shooting, also the trigger action is so light that I made a couple of shots that I didn't mean to make, just when I was trying to shift my body weight.

KAHR was OK.

Sig-Sauer - same story with accidental shots.



*** in the middle of shooting, I realized "crap, I am heading to the airport in a few hours".

[Scurvy]

lol @ thinking XD has a lighter pull than a kimber

you could also buy two of the guns you've listed for the price of the kimber so it's kinda get what you pay for.

[ruski]

lol @ thinking XD has a lighter pull than a kimber

you could also buy two of the guns you've listed for the price of the kimber so it's kinda get what you pay for.

I am used to shooting my friend's Astra 9mm and a .40 Glock and I never discharged them by accident. With XD40 and Sig-Sauer, I made a shot, shifted my body a little and Bang! a second shot!

[Scurvy]

the xd has a 6-8lb pull, not to mention the long uptake. the Kimber should have a 4-6lb pull with zero uptake. easy as that. Why is your finger on the trigger if you are shifting weight?

I don't mean to sound critical I just can't figure out how you get accidental discharges and especially with the middle of the road trigger pulls pistols.

I've got over 1000 rounds through my xd-45 and its never gone off unless i told it to

[ruski]

the xd has a 6-8lb pull, not to mention the long uptake. the Kimber should have a 4-6lb pull with zero uptake. easy as that. Why is your finger on the trigger if you are shifting weight?

I don't mean to sound critical I just can't figure out how you get accidental discharges and especially with the middle of the road trigger pulls pistols.

I've got over 1000 rounds through my xd-45 and its never gone off unless i told it to

finger on the trigger because I was still aiming for the next shot, didn't feel comfortable and slightly shifted my weight.

[Scurvy]

did you already take up the uptake and just holding it on the brink of firing? Mainly i'm trying to figure out how you got discharged from them and not from the kimber. since the kimber doesn't have the long uptake maybe you weren't squeezing the trigger as much preshot like you were on the XD?

[SK360]

there is no way you discharged the XD on accicdent.. not only do you have to pull the trigger saftey back, but then the trigger pull, as mentioned above is 6-8lbs...

XD > *

[nesikachad]

I am used to shooting my friend's Astra 9mm and a .40 Glock and I never discharged them by accident. With XD40 and Sig-Sauer, I made a shot, shifted my body a little and Bang! a second shot!


Welcome to the world of real triggers.

Glocks are like shooting a squirt pistol.

Wilson Combat. A real gun (although a Kimber is a close 2nd)

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

and THAT'S the exact reason why you take your finger completely out of the trigger guard unless you're lined up on target and ready to fire. Imagine if you had been dumb and turned around to talk to someone and "accidently" bumped it?

And by far and away the 1911 (just about and model) has the nicest trigger of any handgun out there. havn't shot a Kahr, but XD and Glock triggers are shit. Not to be confused with The Shit, no no, these are plain ole caca, merde, shite.

And how did you manage to eat your finger with the XD while inserting the MAG (not a clip)?

[unsigned]

Glocks are like shooting a squirt pistol.




LMAO, so true!

[Enid06M6]

I carry a Sig 220 combat, DA/SA 10lb/4.5lb pull, I have never accidentally sent one down range. My wife shoots a Kahr 9mm if its a DA like hers, of course you're not going to accidentally pull on off with that, that is a long 6.5lb pull! Like someone else already said, welcome to the world of real guns/triggers. Keep up the work and you wont shoot anything else. I looked at the Kimber but it didn't fit my hand, and the finish was a bit rough believe it or not!?

[ruski]

and THAT'S the exact reason why you take your finger completely out of the trigger guard unless you're lined up on target and ready to fire. Imagine if you had been dumb and turned around to talk to someone and "accidently" bumped it?

And by far and away the 1911 (just about and model) has the nicest trigger of any handgun out there. havn't shot a Kahr, but XD and Glock triggers are shit. Not to be confused with The Shit, no no, these are plain ole caca, merde, shite.

And how did you manage to eat your finger with the XD while inserting the MAG (not a clip)?

I knew, someone would have pointed out that it is a magazine, not a clip :)

I guess my pinky was still on the edge of the handle and got in the way when I pushed in the magazine. It also seems like the plastic there is a bit sharp, at the edge of the handle. A little skin got caught there. I guess my pinky got circumsized :)

[ruski]

did you already take up the uptake and just holding it on the brink of firing? Mainly i'm trying to figure out how you got discharged from them and not from the kimber. since the kimber doesn't have the long uptake maybe you weren't squeezing the trigger as much preshot like you were on the XD?


Please explain "uptake", I am not native English speaker :)

I was basically aiming and shooting, both arms extended toward the target, with the intention of shooting all the rounds in one session. 1, aim, 2, aim, 3, aim, 4, aim, 5, shift my weight a littBANG!!!-#6 went on its way.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

I knew, someone would have pointed out that it is a magazine, not a clip :)

I guess my pinky was still on the edge of the handle and got in the way when I pushed in the magazine. It also seems like the plastic there is a bit sharp, at the edge of the handle. A little skin got caught there. I guess my pinky got circumsized :)

ah... usually when people talk about getting bit by guns it's by the slide moving foward and biting them, not the mag/magwell.

you REALLY want some pain, try feeding your thumb to an M1 Garand

[markas70]

Sound like to me a little finger disapline needs to be addressed.Iv shot over 4000
rounds thru my xd-40 without one misshap,up to about 1000 thru my xd-45 and
around 3000 thru my xd-9,I shoot IDPA so its fast shooting and reloading and a
Blast to do. My M1-garand.that feels like your thumb comes off when it gets bit
by the bolt,Only happens once if your lucky.

[foster'sguy]

you REALLY want some pain, try feeding your thumb to an M1 Garand

lol! Been there, done that!

[Scurvy]

Please explain "uptake", I am not native English speaker :)

I was basically aiming and shooting, both arms extended toward the target, with the intention of shooting all the rounds in one session. 1, aim, 2, aim, 3, aim, 4, aim, 5, shift my weight a littBANG!!!-#6 went on its way.

the XD trigger has slack in it. the trigger pulls back a few mm without firing, that's the trigger bar disengaging the firing pin safety, takes almost nothing to pull the trigger back that far, once you get that far back you reach the break point. apply the necessary 6-8lbs of pressure and the xd trigger breaks like glass as the block drops sending the striker into the firing pin.

When shooting the XD I aim, take up the slack or the uptake and rest it right on the edge of breaking, check the sight picture one last time and bang.

I think you just need to get used to a real trigger as people have said before.

glock squirt gun trigger FTL hahaha

[Knightmare]

I've never had a problem with my Glock triggers. Ever. And I've never pulled the trigger on mine with a round chambered and not had it go bang. How many other gun owners can say that? My Springfield Armory 1911 used to have all kinds of problems with bad cycling or misfires. I've never had one jam or problem in the 5000+ rounds I've put through my glock and I've cleaned it once.

Buy a glock.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

glocks are good pistols in terms of reliability, but i personally just don't like how they shoot.

[Knightmare]

Yeah, I've heard that before but never understood what that means.. Like you don't think they're accurate enough or what? I shot 50 rounds in the 9-ring on my CHL target this weekend, perfect 250. That's with a little old Glock26 subcompact. The full size guns shoot even better.

So really out of curiosity more than anything else, can you go into more detail about what you don't like?

[ruski]

So anyway, I made it through airport security OK that night. I just washed my hands really well and wiped my shoes with moist paper towels and walked on grass a bit. But I was still very nervous that they may ask me to go through the puffing machine and detain me or something.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Yeah, I've heard that before but never understood what that means.. Like you don't think they're accurate enough or what? I shot 50 rounds in the 9-ring on my CHL target this weekend, perfect 250. That's with a little old Glock26 subcompact. The full size guns shoot even better.

So really out of curiosity more than anything else, can you go into more detail about what you don't like?

i absolutely hate the trigger. mushmushmushBANG. I like the 1911's really crisp trigger, and i think that makes all the difference in the world.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

So anyway, I made it through airport security OK that night. I just washed my hands really well and wiped my shoes with moist paper towels and walked on grass a bit. But I was still very nervous that they may ask me to go through the puffing machine and detain me or something.

what were they going to do? you did nothing illegal. they might search you a bit closer, but once they determined you had nothing on you there would be no problem

[Bandit]

I had some time to kill before flying home form Seattle***. We spotted a gun range in Bellevue and decided to stop by.

We tried a KAHR 9mm, Kimber Ultra Carry .45, Springfield XD40, and Sig-Sauer 9mm.

I liked the Kimber the best. I was expecting stronger kick from .45, but I was surprised at how smooth it was and I got all my shots right in the bulls eye.

I made enemies with the XD40. Upon inserting the clip, it chopped off the skin on my pinky and made me bleed :) I wasn't too impressed with the shooting, also the trigger action is so light that I made a couple of shots that I didn't mean to make, just when I was trying to shift my body weight.

KAHR was OK.

Sig-Sauer - same story with accidental shots.



*** in the middle of shooting, I realized "crap, I am heading to the airport in a few hours".

The Kimber is a well balanced and very well made gun (any of their models). Anyone who loves 1911 variants typically loves Kimber. They are out of the box one of the most reliable 1911's made.

I don't want to hover on the AD comments, but honestly man... if you aren't on-target and ready to fire then your finger should NEVER be inside the trigger guard. The AD didn;t happen because of the quality of the gun, but the inexperience of the person holding it. To AD an XD, and ESPECIALLY a Sig then you had to have made the mistake, pure and simple. But now you know and likely won't repeat the mistake.

None of the pistols you shot were really made for target shooting, but more for concealed carry due to their sizes. The Kimber while extremely accurate will be more accurate and more manageable in the larger variants.

And don't let anyone get you down on the Glock comments, Glocks are very well made and some of the flat-out toughest pistols ever made capable of handling severe abuse and neglect. I have had $2,000 custom 1911's that failed-to-feed after a 1,000 round break-in but never had a $500 Glock fail, jam, or anything else.

The Kahr came to noteriety simply for its slim profile and ease of use for concealed carry. IMO it is a heavy, clunky, ill-executed pistol that leaves a LOT to be desired in reliability, accuracy, and that horrible DA-only trigger pull is not my taste at all.

Sig also makes some damn fine pistols. Accurate and purely well made in every respect. I'm not a fan of the trigger, but that's a personal thing, not a reflection on their quality.

If you like compacts and subcompacts I suggest you fire an HK P2000 SK, I think you'll like that a whole lot. I personally suggest HK to anyone as they make IMO the best possible piece for any type of buyer whether it be for target shooting, concealed carry, or anything else. I carry a P7M8 which most consider to be the Bentley of pistols. They aren't cheap, but the best rarely are.

[JohnnyB4439]

Im a personal fan of Sig Sauer Products. We have a 40, and its my favorite gun Ive shot yet. Expensive but the build quality is great.

[Bandit]

i absolutely hate the trigger. mushmushmushBANG. I like the 1911's really crisp trigger, and i think that makes all the difference in the world.

Are you referring to the Glock trigger as being mushy?

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

yes

[ruski]

The Kimber is a well balanced and very well made gun (any of their models). Anyone who loves 1911 variants typically loves Kimber. They are out of the box one of the most reliable 1911's made.

I don't want to hover on the AD comments, but honestly man... if you aren't on-target and ready to fire then your finger should NEVER be inside the trigger guard. The AD didn;t happen because of the quality of the gun, but the inexperience of the person holding it. To AD an XD, and ESPECIALLY a Sig then you had to have made the mistake, pure and simple. But now you know and likely won't repeat the mistake.

None of the pistols you shot were really made for target shooting, but more for concealed carry due to their sizes. The Kimber while extremely accurate will be more accurate and more manageable in the larger variants.

And don't let anyone get you down on the Glock comments, Glocks are very well made and some of the flat-out toughest pistols ever made capable of handling severe abuse and neglect. I have had $2,000 custom 1911's that failed-to-feed after a 1,000 round break-in but never had a $500 Glock fail, jam, or anything else.

The Kahr came to noteriety simply for its slim profile and ease of use for concealed carry. IMO it is a heavy, clunky, ill-executed pistol that leaves a LOT to be desired in reliability, accuracy, and that horrible DA-only trigger pull is not my taste at all.

Sig also makes some damn fine pistols. Accurate and purely well made in every respect. I'm not a fan of the trigger, but that's a personal thing, not a reflection on their quality.

If you like compacts and subcompacts I suggest you fire an HK P2000 SK, I think you'll like that a whole lot. I personally suggest HK to anyone as they make IMO the best possible piece for any type of buyer whether it be for target shooting, concealed carry, or anything else. I carry a P7M8 which most consider to be the Bentley of pistols. They aren't cheap, but the best rarely are.

I was on the target though, just didn't mean to shoot as soon as it occurred.

[Bandit]

yes

The only way it could feel like that is if you're not using the trigger as Glock designed it. Are you allowing the trigger to return to full forward position after each shot?

[Bandit]

I was on the target though, just didn't mean to shoot as soon as it occurred.

Well the Sig uses a traditional DA/SA trigger that is no more sensitive than anyone else's so again I say... not the gun's fault at all...

[Scurvy]

I've never had a problem with my Glock triggers. Ever. And I've never pulled the trigger on mine with a round chambered and not had it go bang. How many other gun owners can say that? My Springfield Armory 1911 used to have all kinds of problems with bad cycling or misfires. I've never had one jam or problem in the 5000+ rounds I've put through my glock and I've cleaned it once.

Buy a glock.

A) who puts 5k rounds through a gun and only cleans it once?

B) the only time my xd45 had issues with cycling I was trying to shoot semi-wadcutters. Bet your glock would have the same issue.

Yeah, I've heard that before but never understood what that means.. Like you don't think they're accurate enough or what? I shot 50 rounds in the 9-ring on my CHL target this weekend, perfect 250. That's with a little old Glock26 subcompact. The full size guns shoot even better.

So really out of curiosity more than anything else, can you go into more detail about what you don't like?


A) how far out were you?

B) glock triggers are made of plastic

C) the glock grip is at a different angle than a 1911/XD

D) glock trigger pull is more similar to a double action than a true single action like a 1911/XD. The mush mush mush that people refer to is that when you pull the glock trigger it pulls the striker back and then lets it go, that's why makes it "mushy"
--------------------------

FYI- I have nothing against Glocks. they are dead reliable, accurate if you are used to the grip angle, and strictly utilitarian (you gotta admit they are kind ugly).

they just aren't for everyone.

[nesikachad]

FBI Academy performed a test several years back. Glocks went for 50K rounds without failing.

Impressive, can't dispute that at all.

You can drive a truck over it and it won't go off. You can throw it against a wall as hard as you want and it won't fire either.

The only way a Glock shoots is if you pull the trigger. Period.

I still like a 1911 style 45 more.

You can take a Timex watch to the top of the world and it'll still tell time like its supposed to. I have a $500 Seiko diver and friend has a $4500 Rolex Sub Mariner.

Neither are as accurate in the summer desert heat here in Iraq as a 20 dollar timex.

Which would you still rather own?

[Scurvy]

I know glocks can got forever without issues but I still think not cleaning a gun is just negligent.

[nesikachad]

So anyway, I made it through airport security OK that night. I just washed my hands really well and wiped my shoes with moist paper towels and walked on grass a bit. But I was still very nervous that they may ask me to go through the puffing machine and detain me or something.

Powder residue from small arms doesn't flag on atomizers. We use these things at every entrance to the US Embassy here in Baghdad.

Not looking for bullets, looking for boom boom.

No worries.

[Knightmare]

A) who puts 5k rounds through a gun and only cleans it once?

Me. Because I don't like cleaning guns that don't need to be cleaned. I cleaned my stupid SA 1911 every time I fired it, which is probably why I sold it.

the only time my xd45 had issues with cycling I was trying to shoot semi-wadcutters. Bet your glock would have the same issue.

Why fire wadcutter ammo? And even so, it's questionable. I'd have to try it to see it.


how far out were you?

Standard CHL shooting test. 3 yards, 7 yards, 15 yards.


[glock triggers are made of plastic

C) the glock grip is at a different angle than a 1911/XD

D) glock trigger pull is more similar to a double action than a true single action like a 1911/XD. The mush mush mush that people refer to is that when you pull the glock trigger it pulls the striker back and then lets it go, that's why makes it "mushy"


Not really even sure how to respond to these, but I agree with the first two. I'm not sure what you mean about the last one though. I do have a 3.5# connector on my trigger which makes the trigger nice and light on mine, but I can't even begin to understand what you mean by "mushy"

I do think that, if you're going to buy a gun, it should be one that suits you. Grip, size, weight, felt recoil and trigger pull are all things that different people will like in different ways. Get what you like. Just don't rule out a Glock because of something someone who doesn't shoot Glocks says.

[Knightmare]

http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_co ntent&task=view&id=90&Item

Glock power.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

i've shot lots of handguns, including most of the major names out there. That said, i own two 1911s and a Beretta 92. I got rid of a Glock 26 because it just wouldn't grow on me. I hated the trigger from day one, and try as i might I could not get used to it. I like the 1911 trigger-- smooth take up to a firm point, and past that firm point is where it fires. The glock trigger just felt like i pulled on something squishy until it went bang, release and repeat. Even the double action pull on my Beretta was crisper than that. No thanks. I got rid of the glock and got a 1911 Ultra Compact. It's a bit bigger, a bit heavier, and holds fewer rounds, but I enjoy shooting it much more, and am much more confident in my ability to hit something with it.

[Bandit]

A) who puts 5k rounds through a gun and only cleans it once?

B) the only time my xd45 had issues with cycling I was trying to shoot semi-wadcutters. Bet your glock would have the same issue.




A) how far out were you?

B) glock triggers are made of plastic

C) the glock grip is at a different angle than a 1911/XD

D) glock trigger pull is more similar to a double action than a true single action like a 1911/XD. The mush mush mush that people refer to is that when you pull the glock trigger it pulls the striker back and then lets it go, that's why makes it "mushy"
--------------------------

FYI- I have nothing against Glocks. they are dead reliable, accurate if you are used to the grip angle, and strictly utilitarian (you gotta admit they are kind ugly).

they just aren't for everyone.

Very well put together post. :thumbs:

I agreee that while Glocks are great, they aren't for everyone. Some do not like the grip angle, like you stated. I have no issue with it personally, but I can see how some might.

Back to the trigger issue, this is something that Glock lovers can tell you... but those who aren't totally into Glocks don't usually know about.

Gaston Glock designed the safe action trigger to function as simply as the trigger on a revolver, and keep a consistent trigger pull from shot to shot. But there's a cool trick to it...

Don't let the trigger go to the full forward position after each shot. Instead, if you learn where the trigger resets, you'll have one of the fastest cycling, and easiest triggers around for a stock pistol.

Once the gun is fired you only ease up on the trigger a little, allowing it to only extend forward about 1/5th of its full travel. By doing this the trigger resets and is ready to fire again with ver ylittle creep at all. This provides a shockingly crisp trigger action.

Once you've done it, it becomes second nature and is in no way any more complex than firing any other type of trigger. With no extra play in the trigger you'll notice how crisp the action really is.

[Scurvy]

I do have a 3.5# connector on my trigger which makes the trigger nice and light on mine, but I can't even begin to understand what you mean by "mushy"


mushy as in it doesn't have a clean break when it fires. it is ideally supposed to feel snappy like glass breaking and you can't get that out of the glock safe action. single action revolvers break amazingly as do almost all 1911s. the XD has a very clean break as long as you take up the slack first. you get a clean feel for the end of the trigger pull and you know that the next mm you pull it it will fire. you can't get that on the glock, hence why people say they are mushy.

It happens on traditional double action, you pull and pull and pull on the trigger and then bang it goes off with out you getting that same feeling. The Sig DAK trigger has a nice break, it has a real light pull to c0ck the hammer then it stops and you can feel where the break it and snap, the gun fires.

[2K6 GTO]

Trigger pull is very subjective. To be fair, more rounds need to be put down range with each different type of handgun without a time restraint to make a truly informed judgment as to which you prefer.
Each one you shot are fine guns and any one of them would serve you well for defensive purposes with advantages and disadvantages for each design. You must decide the + and -'s for yourself. I suggest you just shoot more. Renting a handgun is a good start. Sometimes you can shoot a friends gun too. The more different ones you shoot, the better you can decide. Try to shoot at least a couple of hundred rounds out of each if you can. Ultimately, it's your choice, for your reasons...

[Knightmare]

Scurvy, please find someone with a Glock and try this.

Confirm that the gun is unloaded, release the magazine, make sure it's empty, visually inspect the chamber for a round, check with your finger, etc. Make sure it's empty.

Rack the slide, slowly squeeze the trigger until you feel tension.

Pull the trigger until it fires, then, while holding the trigger down all the way, rack the slide.

Slowly release the trigger just until it clicks, and pull it again. You will feel that crisp, exact break.

I think the only people who thing Glock triggers are "Mushy" is people who don't know how to fire them.

[Scurvy]

i've put a bunch of rounds through my friend's glock. I know all about the short reset. I would probably need to spend a good amount of time with it to appreciate it. I'm sure after a few thousand rounds it becomes second nature but I would prefer a consistent snappy trigger pull everytime without having to train myself to get it.

First few times I shot a handgun was with his glock and I thought I sucked at pistol shooting, then I rented a 1911 my accuracy went up significantly and I knew the glocks grip angle wasn't for me.

I don't hate glocks, they just aren't for me and I've used them enough to know that. It was an informed decision.