My broke down ass track day today in the GTO

[GTWhoa]

Had the GTO up to Summit Pt today for a track day, car was very impressive on the track, more so than I expected. Except for the fact that on my 3rd run the power steering pump failed and leaked fluid all over the engine compartment.

Other than that this heavy ass car felt like a much lighter car on the track - and it commanded much respect from many of the other cars out there.

A cpl 4 whl drifts, rear end drifts, 135mph straightaway runs - car felt good.

Gonna have to take it the dealer on Mon. Good thing I still have the saab to drive.

A lot of people were like, "is that......? Yeah, it is one of those GTO's - nice car"

[Rob]

Sweet. So is the pump over driven at speeds? I had this problem with my LT1 WS6. A underdrive pulley and a tranny cooler worked great as a power steering cooler. Maybe that could be a solution.

[GTWhoa]

Sweet. So is the pump over driven at speeds? I had this problem with my LT1 WS6. A underdrive pulley and a tranny cooler worked great as a power steering cooler. Maybe that could be a solution.

I dunno, I was gonna search over at ls1tech and see if it was a common problem. The pump doesn't spin any faster on the track (maybe more time at higher rpm though). Maybe the constaint higher rpm in addition to the higher loads of turning a lot contributed. Or maybe it was just defective.

Sounds like a big old D1 running under the hood or something.

[GMH GTO]

search on ls1.com.au in years past it was more common for power steering problems on holdens. I'm pretty sure our GTOs have a power steering cooler.

[Smo's04GTO]

How bad did you beat up on the tires and brakes,I have heard they take a real beating?

[OldER Goat]

yeah..how did those 13"baers work out for ya ? what pads you using ?

[GTWhoa]

How bad did you beat up on the tires and brakes,I have heard they take a real beating?

Not too bad actually they fared better than I expected and I was pushing the car really hard at some points, maybe a little harder than I should have. :gr_devil:

It had no problem running with the carreras, vettes, etc. The GT2, GT3, Z06, and turbo porsche were eating me alive as well as an awesome modded cl55 amg, and a really nice e46 M3(this car was fast as hell - many mods, the fastest M3 I've ever seen).

The tires have the tendency to overheat pretty quickly when I was pushing the car hard. The BAER brakes held up well. I got a little fade at one point but they cooled down quickly and held up very well.

I had an instructor in the car with me the first run since all of my track experience is with fwd 4cyl turbos, and he was very impressed with the car, in fact he couldn't believe it, then I told him I had upgraded the springs, sway bar and brakes and then he was like oh ok. But it feels that good, and this obvservation was coming from a guy who races in a 1st gen rx7, a very light car, good handling car in SCCA race trim.

[QuicksilverGTO]

Had the GTO up to Summit Pt today for a track day, car was very impressive on the track, more so than I expected. Except for the fact that on my 3rd run the power steering pump failed and leaked fluid all over the engine compartment.

Other than that this heavy ass car felt like a much lighter car on the track - and it commanded much respect from many of the other cars out there.

A cpl 4 whl drifts, rear end drifts, 135mph straightaway runs - car felt good.

Gonna have to take it the dealer on Mon. Good thing I still have the saab to drive.

A lot of people were like, "is that......? Yeah, it is one of those GTO's - nice car"

Thanks for the good update. I have read somewhere that a power steering cooler is needed for these cars when going to the track. A friend who has raced a C4 Corvette said he needed a PS cooler for sure.

Is your pump gone or do you think the fluid overheated and expanded out of the res?

[bellwilliam]

Had the GTO up to Summit Pt today for a track day, car was very impressive on the track, more so than I expected. Except for the fact that on my 3rd run the power steering pump failed and leaked fluid all over the engine compartment.
"

you might want to check your brake pads. make sure they are not "crystalized". happened to me and 1 other poster who took cars to the track.

[Pat]

I used a setup like this:

http://www.ws6.com/pscool.htm

... on my old LT1 Formula. I ran several track events per year, and had no power steering problems after installing this cooler.

[GTWhoa]

Thanks for the good update. I have read somewhere that a power steering cooler is needed for these cars when going to the track. A friend who has raced a C4 Corvette said he needed a PS cooler for sure.

Is your pump gone or do you think the fluid overheated and expanded out of the res?

The leak was at the pulley bearing area. I took it to the dealer and they replaced it under warranty.

[GTWhoa]

you might want to check your brake pads. make sure they are not "crystalized". happened to me and 1 other poster who took cars to the track.

yep - the pad material is very brittle and and some pieces are cracked off. I replace the pads every time I go to the track. I'm gonna buy a set of race pads for track use only and switch out to regular street pads when off track - this works out really well I did this with my SAAB.

btw - after I replaced the springs in my car, there was loads of neg camber, the neg camber makes the track soooo much fun, handles so much better.

[Sk8fe]

How do changing the springs give you "loads of neg camber"? What causes pads to "crystalize"?

[GTWhoa]

How do changing the springs give you "loads of neg camber"?

The lower ride height, causes the top of the wheel to tip in, the bottom to tip out = negative camber


What causes pads to "crystalize"?

heat

[Doc GTO]

Nice. What you need is an extra set of wheels with DOT track rubber. That with your other suspension mods will step it up a few notches!!! You will never do a track event again with street rubber!!!

[Sk8fe]

What causes pads to "crystalize"?

heat
Thanks for the obvious! :D Just joking... :) I should have been more explicit. I had this happen to my rear pads (Ferodo DS2500) last year in a car that I took to Summit Point. I guess my questions are:


Do pads crystalize because they were not properly bedded in?
Do pads crystalize due to defects in pad material/compound (manufacturing defect)?
Did I really fry my rear pads that bad? Why wouldn't my fronts have crystalized then?
Or, just dumb luck?

[bellwilliam]

Thanks for the obvious! :D Just joking... :) I should have been more explicit. I had this happen to my rear pads (Ferodo DS2500) last year in a car that I took to Summit Point. I guess my questions are:


Do pads crystalize because they were not properly bedded in?
Do pads crystalize due to defects in pad material/compound (manufacturing defect)?
Did I really fry my rear pads that bad? Why wouldn't my fronts have crystalized then?
Or, just dumb luck?



I am glad I am not the only having problem with my brakes :mad: , I thought it was my driving !! my rear stock pads did not just crystalized, it fell aprt, I have zero pads left. this was after couple of track days. My front Hawk Plus pads crystalized that it scorched my rotors. I also lost all 4 calipers due to piston distortions. But my Motul 600 brake flud held up fine :)

weird thing is the rear pads got destroyed, I guess it must of due to less cooling at the rear. I plan to install a Nascar brake fans for the rear (picked up off Ebay).

[Sk8fe]

I plan to install a Nascar brake fans for the rear (picked up off Ebay).
Take tons of pics for a how-to install thread and post! :D

[QuicksilverGTO]

Evidently, it's almost impossible to "over cool" the brakes on a GTO when doing laps on a road course. I'm used to light, low powered German cars with great brakes.

If I take my GTO to the track, after 13 years of road racing, I'll change to Motul 600 fluid, run ducting to the fronts and possibly rears, install Hawk HT-10 endurance racing pads for a C5 Corvette, and will pull a front and rear wheel after each session. I'm used to full-on ABS in every significant braking zone and it sounds like good brake preparation is very important.

Many thanks to everyone who has contributed.

[mlc]

y
btw - after I replaced the springs in my car, there was loads of neg camber, the neg camber makes the track soooo much fun, handles so much better.

I'm planning on the springs (sway on order) but I was going to get the camber kit also. Hows the car handle on the street like this? Would you recommend getting/not getting the camber kit if most of the time is spent as a daily drive?

[bellwilliam]

Evidently, it's almost impossible to "over cool" the brakes on a GTO when doing laps on a road course. I'm used to light, low powered German cars with great brakes.

If I take my GTO to the track, after 13 years of road racing, I'll change to Motul 600 fluid, run ducting to the fronts and possibly rears, install Hawk HT-10 endurance racing pads for a C5 Corvette, and will pull a front and rear wheel after each session. I'm used to full-on ABS in every significant braking zone and it sounds like good brake preparation is very important.

Many thanks to everyone who has contributed.


when I ran my last track day (the day my brake got all messed up), I was running front brake duct, a homemade solution by removing fog lights. and with Hawk Plus pads, even then, they crystalized. I was only running a 2" hose, next time I will run a 3" hose (although the fog light opening is barely more than 2" opening).

I bought 13" Baer Kits front and rear (waited over 2 weeks now, got it on sale from Tbyrne for $1,500), received my Hawk DTC70 front racing pads ($250 from Stoptech, Howard) and Hawk HT10 rear racing pads ($160 also Stoptech). I got Nascar brake fans (Ebay) for the rear brakes (may be front depends on the fit). hope all this will fix my damn brake problem !!

[QuicksilverGTO]

when I ran my last track day (the day my brake got all messed up), I was running front brake duct, a homemade solution by removing fog lights. and with Hawk Plus pads, even then, they crystalized. I was only running a 2" hose, next time I will run a 3" hose (although the fog light opening is barely more than 2" opening).

I bought 13" Baer Kits front and rear (waited over 2 weeks now, got it on sale from Tbyrne for $1,500), received my Hawk DTC70 front racing pads ($250 from Stoptech, Howard) and Hawk HT10 rear racing pads ($160 also Stoptech). I got Nascar brake fans (Ebay) for the rear brakes (may be front depends on the fit). hope all this will fix my damn brake problem !!

WOW! Let us know how it works.

And let's all remember that anything over about 1 degree of negative camber will wear tires significantly on the inner edges during street driving. I run 2.5 degrees neg on my BMW 3 Series race car and the tire wear on the track is very good and even.

I recently saw another BMW (same year as my racecar) that is used for autocross and daily driving. He has lowered the car with performance springs which gave it more neg camber in the rear. The tires have about 2/3 of the tread left but the inside edges were worn considerably.

[Pat]

WOW! Let us know how it works.

And let's all remember that anything over about 1 degree of negative camber will wear tires significantly on the inner edges during street driving.

I don't know if "1 degree" is necessarily the hard-and-fast borderline- I ran -1.6 on my old Firebird Formula and didn't experience visible inner tire wear over the life of the tires (20K miles or so). Now that was an SLA suspension rather than struts, so maybe that makes a difference.

William, those super-$$$ Hawks ought to do the trick. It also might be worth it to try the HT10 front/Blue rear combo next time too- it might work fine and would save you a few shekels.

Which Baer system did you get? Track? GT? Tell me you got regular rotors rather than drilled ones...

[bellwilliam]

William, those super-$$$ Hawks ought to do the trick. It also might be worth it to try the HT10 front/Blue rear combo next time too- it might work fine and would save you a few shekels.

Which Baer system did you get? Track? GT? Tell me you got regular rotors rather than drilled ones...

that's what Stoptech told me originally, that Hark HT10 should do the trick. But I had already destroyed my stock calipers/rotors, I don't want to buy another sets of new calipers/rotors, then find out it again destroyed everything again (did you know Pontiac dealer quoted me $2,900 to fix it :gr_devil: ). Baer were on sale for $1,500, so I just went ahead.

btw, Stoptech did tell me Hawk blue is very abrasive, so he steered me towards the most expensive/just released DC70 for the front and HT for the rear.

Of course I bought plain regular rotors !! Cross drilled / slotted are for wimps !! :angel:

I saw this on TV: Ferrari 360 comes with cross drilled / slotted. but the Ferrari 360 Cup Race car comes with plain rotors !!

[Pat]

You're going to swap the pads at the track, right? I don't think any of those pads are streetable.

[bellwilliam]

I recently saw another BMW (same year as my racecar) that is used for autocross and daily driving. He has lowered the car with performance springs which gave it more neg camber in the rear. The tires have about 2/3 of the tread left but the inside edges were worn considerably.

I've owned BMWs, have a Z4 right now, just sold my Z3 few months ago. EVERY Z3 wears on the inside edge of tires !!! that's a BMW conspiracy with Tire company. :mad:

and to answer Pat's question. yes, I have to switch out pads at every track event. I don't mind though, because the damn performance Hawk Plus pads I had sqealed like pig, and dust like no tomorrow when driven on the street. This way, I will use stock pads (for C5/C4) for street, work better in cold anyway.

[QuicksilverGTO]

I don't know if "1 degree" is necessarily the hard-and-fast borderline- I ran -1.6 on my old Firebird Formula and didn't experience visible inner tire wear over the life of the tires (20K miles or so). Now that was an SLA suspension rather than struts, so maybe that makes a difference.

William, those super-$$$ Hawks ought to do the trick. It also might be worth it to try the HT10 front/Blue rear combo next time too- it might work fine and would save you a few shekels.

Which Baer system did you get? Track? GT? Tell me you got regular rotors rather than drilled ones...

Sure. Every car is different, regarding camber that works on the street. That's why I wrote "anything over about one degree..." and not something like "anything over one degree will ruin your tires."

I was just offering some kind of basic perspective.

Also, I just rotated my tires in my driveway and noticed that the front tires have rubbed on the struts. Nothing major but certainly noticeable. And I haven't changed anything from stock and don't drive real aggressively on the street.

Has anyone else noticed this?

[ItsaMonaro]

the front tires have rubbed on the struts. Nothing major but certainly noticeable. Has anyone else noticed this?

Seems to be a common thread (pun intended).....

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2186 5&highlight=struts+rub

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2060 3&highlight=struts+rub

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3111&highlight=struts+rub

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1881 3&highlight=struts+rub

[silver04gto]

Had the GTO up to Summit Pt today for a track day, car was very impressive on the track, more so than I expected. Except for the fact that on my 3rd run the power steering pump failed and leaked fluid all over the engine compartment.

Other than that this heavy ass car felt like a much lighter car on the track - and it commanded much respect from many of the other cars out there.

A cpl 4 whl drifts, rear end drifts, 135mph straightaway runs - car felt good.

Gonna have to take it the dealer on Mon. Good thing I still have the saab to drive.

A lot of people were like, "is that......? Yeah, it is one of those GTO's - nice car"


summit point is a pretty nice track never drove on it but seen a few go kart races up there, do u know if there still doing that there....and when and howdo u get on the track to take some laps ???

[Sk8fe]

Looks like Summit Point updated their website. Other than seeing that the front page has changed to what I was used to, I have not looked into the site further. They used to have a nice 3D map of the course layout.

http://www.summitpoint-raceway.com/

To sign up for FATT Days (Friday At The Track) or "Seat Time" days (you have to have an SCCA license or be signed off to attend Seat Time days), check out BSR's schedule below and call them.

http://www.bsr-inc.com/SCHEDREC.HTM

Tom

[beertestr]

Had the GTO up to Summit Pt today for a track day, car was very impressive on the track, more so than I expected. Except for the fact that on my 3rd run the power steering pump failed and leaked fluid all over the engine compartment.

Other than that this heavy ass car felt like a much lighter car on the track - and it commanded much respect from many of the other cars out there.

A cpl 4 whl drifts, rear end drifts, 135mph straightaway runs - car felt good.

Gonna have to take it the dealer on Mon. Good thing I still have the saab to drive.

A lot of people were like, "is that......? Yeah, it is one of those GTO's - nice car"

Wild, I have 3 track days on mine, the fluid is brown now, but no failure. I am going back out in July, I think I might reconsider a cooler. The two tracks I have been to in MI were:

1- Grattan raceway, 2 or 2.5 miles, 12 turns, lots of R's a couple 2nd gear corners, but you hit 130 on the main straight, and spend most of the time in 3rd. This was track days 1 a 2 .

2 - Waterford Hills, 1.3 miles 12 turns. Lots of steering, lots of load on the pump. Track day #3, fluid was pretty brown, a little overflow out of the reservoir.

I'll have to keep an eye on it.

BTW, run your motor 1 quart over on oil, and run synthetic. I had one hard high RPM corner when I got an oil pressure light. I put in another 3/4 quart, no problems. I monitored oil temps, and saw 278F peak oil temp. IF you run synthetic, you are good to about 320F before you should get worried/back off.

I am heading back in July, and will be running a set of Grand Am Cup- spec Hoosier slicks. Can't wait to see what they feel like compared to the stock all seasons.. those were greaseballs about 3-4 laps.

Glad to see others are tracking theirs.