M6 issues are real

[VelodromeRacer]

Ok,
I wasn't sure how to get your attention...

After reading somewhere about a list member and his M6 tranny problems I went to my dealer today. My build date was 10/3 my tranny is sometimes...a real pain to get into reverse, and it has slipped from my 2nd gear shift.
The short of it is........
Tommorrow, my car goes in to get the tranny pulled and a few things replaced per GM. So if you are having any shifting issues, get to your dealer and have them check with Pontiac. The bolt torque and slave cylinder are known issues for some early production cars.

More later...and maybe pictures when it is out of the car!

[mistermike]

Can we get a copy of the TSB posted? Sure would give us some ammunition when waltzing into the dealer.

[DevilYellow]

Be carefull. Every Z06 I've ever driven has always had a notchy gear selection. There is something weird with the service manual for that gear box and I've seen quite a few times they were assembled too tight. I dont know what kind of problem the slave would have, they are upgraded from the old LS1 versions. I think there is a small pressure plate problem, but for the most part an upgraded clutch would be something alot of people would want/need.

[pontiac04GTO]

Mine was also built 10/3...

[VelodromeRacer]

Mine was also built 10/3...

More info...

I was told today that on the early production cars, your car's M6 tranny is fine if you have a yellow "OK" written behind the left cyl. head. Mine was in white and they determined mine was not "OK".

They dropped the tranny and the bolts needed to be at 37ft lbs, were actually at 11 to 19 ft lbs. They are replacing the clutch pressure plate and slave cylinder as well as the flywheel that shows some uneven wear.

I am going to look under the "tranny less" car this afternoon...I will get some pictures if anybody wants them, contact me.

I should get the car Friday.......sure!

[AmesGTO]

Is the "OK" pretty easy to find?

You should post pics when you get them. I'm sure there is a lot of interest.

[VelodromeRacer]

I haven't looked for it...from what the service rep told me it should be.

[pontiac04GTO]

Does it specifically say "OK"? I see plenty of markings of all different colors (blue, purple, orange, yellow, green, pink, white).

[derf]

I'm dropping mine off at the dealer on Monday. I have a hard time getting it into reverse sometimes and it catches a few teeth on the gears shifting into 3rd sometimes. I'm also experiencing excessive clutch travel with a "loose" feeling pedal.

I think my build date was 11/03.

They said that the computer does have something though not a TSB or recall. Just a "heads up" type message. Shouldn't be too much trouble to get it fixed.

[JCMGTO]

I'll try to, but if someone could grap the "right" and wrong part numbers would probably be a great help for others.

[AmesGTO]

I'm dropping mine off at the dealer on Monday. I have a hard time getting it into reverse sometimes and it catches a few teeth on the gears shifting into 3rd sometimes. I'm also experiencing excessive clutch travel with a "loose" feeling pedal.

I think my build date was 11/03.

They said that the computer does have something though not a TSB or recall. Just a "heads up" type message. Shouldn't be too much trouble to get it fixed.

Are the last 6 of your VIN over or under 200000?

[JCMGTO]

Mines below 186000

[GTOJer]

A few questions...
I can not find the second label that is supposed to be on the firewall. Can someone post a pic or give more detail instructions on the location?

Is there a TSB on this? If so, please post it. If not, how did you convince Pontiac to do these repairs?

My vin is 193907. Build date 11/03. There have been times where I could not get into reverse. I now have 2900 miles and the shifter is getting "notchier". That is, it is not shifting as smoothly as when I got it. I will check the back of the head this afternoon.

Thanks for all of this great info. Pontiac has recognized us as a force it has to deal with.

[VelodromeRacer]

I didn't see a TSB from my service rep...I have bought alot of cars from them and they pretty much know if I am describing a problem, I have a case. I just wanted him to check it out...and sure enough he found that it was a problem. When he took the tranny out, and checked the bolts...they were loose, so their is an issue.

I don't have my VIN handy, but my build date was 10/03. ( I hope this isn't a problem related only to barbados blue cars :)

[DANSLS1]

You know vdracer - you may be on to something. I doubt it would be confined to a specific color - but it does appear they are batching the colors together for builds. Therefore it could be from a shift or time period when only certain color cars were built.
Dan

[GTOJer]

great

[derf]

Are the last 6 of your VIN over or under 200000?

1906XX

Oh, and mine is silver.

[AmesGTO]

So far the highest VINs we have seen with problems are 193XXX. They told JCMGTO (less than 186000) that his car was near the fix. Maybe they fixed the problem somewhere before 200000. I hope.

[FLORIT]

(laughing)

It figures... the last 6 on my VIN are exactly 193xxx.

Well, not literally xxx, but you know what I mean. My ride is at the dealer's service department as we speak, and I asked them to make sure my M6 tranny was OK per the information in this thread. I hope they take me serious and really look at it.

I haven't had any tranny problems in the 800 miles I have driven the car except that MAYBE reverse was a little hard to find a couple of times. Man, if they have to keep the car over the weekend I will be bummed. We are having GORGEOUS weather.

[scheer]

what bolts have to be torqued on the tranny.does anyone know?

[VelodromeRacer]

The clutch pressure plate bolts. The tranny so to speak is ok...the clutch pressure plate, (not to be confused with the clutch disk) was not installed to specs on SOME cars. So far, the car has driven alot better!

I also installem my new intake and BMR alum. plate under the oil pan this weekend. (actually, the dealer installed the alum. plate when I took it with me as I went to shoot the pictures and asked if they would bolt it in lieu of the factory plate while the car was up on the lift).

[FLORIT]

The dealer claims my tranny is "fine" and I guess I can't complain. I have to admit I'm a little paranoid though. Everytime anything the least little bit odd happens with my shifter I'm thinking, "Was that my mistake or is my tranny going bad?"

The car seems to be running fine. The clutch pedal release point is a little less than [sic] have, I mean HALF, the travel to the floor. I'm getting better with shifting, with now over 1000 miles on the car. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[derf]

I just dropped mine off at the dealer. It was getting progressively worse. It got harder to shift into most of the gears without the pedal all the way to the floor. There was a "dead zone" where the pedal travelled maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of the way down with very little effort. It started to pick up after that. Oh, and I started getting a vibration coming through the pedal as well.

We'll find out what the dealer has to say once they get it apart.

But they said they'd install an aftermarket clutch if I wanted one, it just wouldn't be under warranty. I'll have to work out the details but I might just get that upgraded clutch.

[VelodromeRacer]

If you look at my pictures...the first one clearly shows in the upper left hand cyl. head, above the clutch mount...the white letters "OK". Those are in yellow on corrected cars and so because mine were white, my car hadn't been fixed.

[DANSLS1]

Personally, I would call that the right side - but maybe I'm backwards...
Dan

[GTOJer]

Hey Guys, I need a quick answer on this one. I need a TSB or someone for the dealership to call. They don't want top even out it on the lift until there is something to tell them what to do. I will post the details of the visit later but right now, I need a TSB number or a contact for them to call.

Thanks

[tminer]

I would assume that in a left hand drive car the driver's side is the left side. But I could be wrong.

HTH,
Tom

[CMNTMXR57]

Guys,

Don’t take this the wrong way, but some notchiness is NORMAL. I have yet to drive a manual transmission that didn’t have some form of gate notchiness, T56 or other. Now if you’re having a problem where you need to put two feet on your dash, and yank the thing into or out of gears, then YES, there is a problem. But some “drag” as you cross a gate is normal feel. It’s meant to be that way to help you mentally realize it’s into that particular gear you want.

Some of the rougher notchiness can be attributable to the shifter base. Our shifters on T56’s from the factory are, well, sh*t! A nice aftermarket unit (which some of us are working on) will make a 110% improvement, but there will still be enough notchiness to remind you you’re passing through a gate.

Trust me on this one.

[derf]

Guys,

Don’t take this the wrong way, but some notchiness is NORMAL. I have yet to drive a manual transmission that didn’t have some form of gate notchiness, T56 or other. Now if you’re having a problem where you need to put two feet on your dash, and yank the thing into or out of gears, then YES, there is a problem. But some “drag” as you cross a gate is normal feel. It’s meant to be that way to help you mentally realize it’s into that particular gear you want.

Some of the rougher notchiness can be attributable to the shifter base. Our shifters on T56’s from the factory are, well, sh*t! A nice aftermarket unit (which some of us are working on) will make a 110% improvement, but there will still be enough notchiness to remind you you’re passing through a gate.

Trust me on this one.

I've driven enough stick shifts to know about how notchy they are. And I know that mine is a lot harder to shift than it was even three weeks ago. Drastic change in clutch pedal travel, noticable change in difficulty getting into and out of gear, vibration through the pedal (not motor vibration, a real shaking) that started 24 hours ago. That's a clutch problem.

As for the others, theirs may or may not be a problem.

[agentj004gto]

The clutch pressure plate bolts. The tranny so to speak is ok...the clutch pressure plate, (not to be confused with the clutch disk) was not installed to specs on SOME cars. So far, the car has driven alot better!

I also installem my new intake and BMR alum. plate under the oil pan this weekend. (actually, the dealer installed the alum. plate when I took it with me as I went to shoot the pictures and asked if they would bolt it in lieu of the factory plate while the car was up on the lift).


I spoke w/GM today re the thunking noise from the rear end when shifting with the rpm's up and cust serv said to take it to dealer... and at this time there is no tech bullitin ? What have you guys found out that have the noise?
Did yours also have the noise when shifting? If so, has the noise stopped?
Is the fly wheel iron or steel? It could be dangerous if the pressure plate bolts came out under throttle at higher rpm's. GM also told me that they would warranty only work done by a Pontiac dealer and not Chevy dealer etc.? Perhaps we all should be sure to take our GTO"S in re the rear end noise when shifting... By the way has any one heard from BOB LUTZ about the noise since there are several articles describing him as a person that likes to get it on when he drives????? Maybe it would be a good idea to write and email him to GM and request a response from him about asertive driving both the auto and the 6!!!!! Cool is forever!!!

[CMNTMXR57]

I've driven enough stick shifts to know about how notchy they are. And I know that mine is a lot harder to shift than it was even three weeks ago. Drastic change in clutch pedal travel, noticable change in difficulty getting into and out of gear, vibration through the pedal (not motor vibration, a real shaking) that started 24 hours ago. That's a clutch problem.

As for the others, theirs may or may not be a problem.

You missed the part of my comment that basically eluded to the fact that if it were extremely difficult to shift into gear, then there is a problem. :D

[Blitzu]

You missed the part of my comment that basically eluded to the fact that if it were extremely difficult to shift into gear, then there is a problem. :D

I took my car into the dealership thursday for similar problems, and I just got back from vacation, they said that their is some rubber bushing for the rear gear problem that can't handle the torque, which is throwing it out of alignment... or something like that (it came through the dealer and he wasn't so sure) He also added their is a new updated clutch that they will be installing. They are also fixing my shift knob which was screwed by another dealer. So far so good, hopfully get it back tomorrow or at worst the end of the week.

Just a FYI... if GM has a updated clutch as the dealer said, some M6 owners better stay aware.

[gmmechanic]

Hi Guys Yes You Are Hearing A Clunk When Jumping On It Real Hard.
It Is The Rear Control Arm Contacting The Body Underneath.
They Have An Insulator That Is Installed In About An Hour For Both Sides Cures The Clunk. Your Dealer Needs To Cotanct Technical Assistance And Talk To The Gto Boys At G.m. Right Now They Are The Only Ones With The Parts, They Are Making More But Handling The Problem Cars First(you Know The Guys Who Get On Them) Unless You Really Jump On It You May Never Get The Noise.

[VelodromeRacer]

I took mine in, not really because of the notchiness but the difficulty in getting the thing in reverse sometimes. I expect to sometimes put my 1966 Austin Healey back in first then back over to reverse, but not in my GTO.

I don't like the shift feel, but I know that part of what we have. My service tech called a GM or Pontiac service number and they knew of the issues..They do not have a TSB out though. If you use a mirror and light, you can look for the yellow OK behind the left side (drivers side) cylinder at the firewall. I was told if you did not have the OK in yellow, you need tranny service.

Also, the factory intake is so restrictive looking...when I changed to my new setup I had a chance to check it out...now the engine really screams through the open K&N.

[GTOJer]

I talked the dealer into calling the TAC and what do you know....they are pulling the trans tomorrow. They were surprised that I knew that the TAC would know about this...hehehehehe..thanks to LS1GTO.com!!!

[JCMGTO]

Has anyone else's dealer mentioned the white and yellow "ok"?

Mine never mentioned it, just that they were to pull and check it.

[agentj004gto]

I just dropped mine off at the dealer. It was getting progressively worse. It got harder to shift into most of the gears without the pedal all the way to the floor. There was a "dead zone" where the pedal travelled maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of the way down with very little effort. It started to pick up after that. Oh, and I started getting a vibration coming through the pedal as well.

We'll find out what the dealer has to say once they get it apart.

But they said they'd install an aftermarket clutch if I wanted one, it just wouldn't be under warranty. I'll have to work out the details but I might just get that upgraded clutch.

Just wanted to share some clutch info with you... The Borg Warner diaphram clutch is a good set up with a kevlar disc, holds real good and has a stock easy operate feel,.... also Center Force has a good clutch,... the Gold Series is a good set up, holds/grabs good and has a soft stock easy operate feel also the Center Force II series is a nice set up, again has a good stock operate feel,... I have tried many clutch set ups over the years and have found that these are among the best set ups that do not strain your clutch linkage,... it has been my experience that some of the other brands are so stiff that they can be hard on linkage and do not release fast enough to prevent excessive linkage wear and can also contribute to missed shifts,.. Post up what brand you decide to go with!!!!!

[DevilYellow]

Im going with a Spec Stage 3 .... pedal just like stock but a little grabby. Definatly will handle anything I throw at it for awhile.

[CMNTMXR57]

The only thing rubber around or in the trans is the rear trans mount and the rubber couplers on our 2 piece driveshaft. So perhaps one of those are what they are referring to. For what it’s worth the stock rubber transmission mount SUCKS! I unbolted the crossmember from the car and a three year old could’ve batted at it like a balloon it was sooo flexible.

As to clutches, I know many of you simply want this replaced under warranty, but the factory clutches SUCK in the LS1 cars. Plain, simple, end of story. What their update is, is increased torquing of bolts on the flywheel and pressure plate and change to DOT 4 fluid (something you can do on your own BTW). Otherwise, the hydraulics and clutch itself hasn’t been changed since used in the ’01 F-Bodies.

What I’m getting at, is spend the money, replace the clutch with an aftermarket hi-po unit. It’ll cost you some dough, but that money spent will save you in down time having to take your car back to the dealer every 5,000 miles to have them replace another weak factory clutch time and time again.

The aftermarket clutches have better clutch discs generally made of carbon fiber/Kevlar compounds and a pressure plate with higher clamping force from the springs on it.

This is where the weak link in the factory clutch lays. The spring pressure on the pressure plate at high rpm’s can’t keep it clamped against the disc and flywheel. It therefore floats, allowing the disc to spin in between the flywheel and pressure plate (at high rpm it’ll annihilate it) therefore blueing both the flywheel and pressure plate from excessive heat and making the clutch useless until it cools down again.

I like DY have a SPEC Stage 3 in my GTO. I also have this same clutch in my Camaro and it’s held now for 8,000 miles of high powered heads and cammed LS1 and many hard launches at the strip. :D It is a slightly heavier pedal than stock but not all that bad. It’s the price you pay for having something that should handle stock levels of power. It is considerably grabbier and I have yet blow it out like I did at 93 miles on my GTO’s stocker from a simple romp up an onramp.

Trust me, spend the money! You’ll thank me later!

[Warren]

How about if after I fry my factory clutch, I ask the dealer to upgrade, and split the difference with the dealer to go your route with the SPEC 3? Think that they would put it in for me? I have a good relationship with my dealer, so I think this may be the route I will go. Oh, and BTW, I am pretty sure that I am going to fry my clutch sometime, this car is just way too fun not to. :D

[CMNTMXR57]

They may. Some do, some don't. Many dealers follow the letter of GM's law. Others like the one I worked at were willing to bend the rules some if it meant a happy customer and repeat business (what a novel concept, right). In some cases we would eat some of that initial cost to do it. But some are just worried about bottom line profit and want reimbursement from GM A.S.A.P. on warranty as the dealer foots the repair bill until that repayment. So they don’t want to be paying for additional costs of repair.

Best bet is to call the service manager, explain what you want to do with him and see what he says. Deal with him only when you bring it in to be done.

[Warren]

:D I still have to fry the clutch first, but I think they will do it. I grew up pretty much across the street from them, and between my Dad and myself, we have purchased 5 vehicles (new) from him in the last 15 years. Plus where I got my elCamino from when I was in high school. I also drink beer with the service manager quite often. There are benifits of living in a small town sometimes. :D

[derf]

The dealer closest to me is a letter-of-the-law GM service center. No dice on anything but factory replacement parts.

But considering my recent SNAFU with my "custom exterior detailing", the $1K deductable and the splitting of the difference getting an aftermarket hood, I don't really have a lot of cash to upgrade right now. I'll take the factory clutch, use it until it gives out and then upgrade at another dealer when I take it in for warranty repacement.

Oh, and I talked to the dealer. They got the tranny out. The tech took off the flex plate by just turning the bolts with his finger. No tools required. They were that loose.

[yourguyry]

What after market hood do you have that is out already??

[derf]

Well, the verdict is in.

New Flywheel. New flexplate. New clutch disk. New slave cylinder. Parts should be in today. I should get the car back tomorrow.

[cjlannoy]

congrats, hope all goes well, I know my car is better than it ever was.

[AmesGTO]

I went to my dealer today and got my GTO up on the rack. I've got a yellow OK so I'm all good.

[DANSLS1]

Alright - so I managed to see a yellow OK on my car today w/ a 190xxx vin. Not sure why mine's an earlier build that some w/ problems - but ok.
Also managed to finally see the casting number and verify it's the LS6 block casting.
I do have a question about the DOT 3 vs 4 for the clutch thing. I see a cap next to the master brake cylinder - and it says to use DOT 4 'brake fluid' only. Is this for the clutch?
Thanks,
Dan

[Holeshot]

Alright - so I managed to see a yellow OK on my car today w/ a 190xxx vin. Not sure why mine's an earlier build that some w/ problems - but ok.
Also managed to finally see the casting number and verify it's the LS6 block casting.
I do have a question about the DOT 3 vs 4 for the clutch thing. I see a cap next to the master brake cylinder - and it says to use DOT 4 'brake fluid' only. Is this for the clutch?
Thanks,
Dan
You bet your bottom dollar it is.

[DANSLS1]

Well, I guess that means if I blow the clutch it's all of my own doing and not because of anything from Holden / Pontiac. Good to know.
Dan

[JCMGTO]

Once again, where did the "yellow" ok statment come from? My dealer has not mentioned it. And I only saw one say it. And I think Dan you aree an earlier build then someone who just had a clutch replaced.

[Blitzu]

I just got my car back and the reciept I got lists the following...

Transmission work
Hard to get into rev gear, difficult to shift into forward gears
Check rear bushings
Check per tech line check flywheel pressure, and plate
Torq and clutch, and flywheel case #7245108 //Doc#1374757/
Replaced clutch slave cyl as needed


Maybe this could help others... it seems GM's tech line suggested many things to be checked, but from the looks of it only the slave was replaced, anyone really know what the clutch slave cylinder is??

[DANSLS1]

Once again, where did the "yellow" ok statment come from? My dealer has not mentioned it. And I only saw one say it. And I think Dan you aree an earlier build then someone who just had a clutch replaced.

Well, it came from the dealer checking out VDracer's car. Knowing a bit about how assembly plants work, I'm not so sure build date can be the only issue. It is possible that one guy knew to increase the torque for the extra HP in the 'American' cars (yellow 'OK' marker) and a different guy didn't (white 'OK' marker). Or it could be they caught and reworked some cars in the plant before shipping and didn't catch others (maybe my car originally had a bad fascia - we know they had that problem - and stayed in the plant so they were able to fix it, while some of the cars built later didn't, for example). I'm not really sure - I do know I haven't had a lick of problem getting my car into gear - except when I first was driving and was trying to go down for reverse instead of up (hey - I've driven a 5 speed for like 15 years).
And if I start having problems - it'll go straight to the dealership still. Hopefully I won't.
Dan

[mistermike]

I've got VIN 188xxx. Occasionally, I have a tough time getting into reverse, but no grinding, popping out of gear, or excessive clutch travel yet. I'm at about 1200 mi, mostly pretty mild driving. Do you think I'm going to be eligable for the clutch fix based on the VIN? I should be able to get the rear-end fix because of the TSB, but I'm wondering how f**ked up the clutch has to be before they'll fix it. It would be nice to get that taken care of before I swap shifters.

[FLORIT]

I've had only minor shifting problems and I believe it is my fault, not the transmission's. I was trying to downshift to 2nd this morning and heard that god awful griiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiind that told me I didn't have the clutch fully disengaged. Not the first time that's happened, either. How EMBARRASSING.

[MattSaint]

Well, you guys got me thinking. I haven't had any issues with the clutch, other than the typical noice that you get at idle with the clutch disengaged (had the same with my 97 WS6). Anyway, my VIN ends in 188xxx and was built in OCT 03. I crawled under the car and found the yellow OK. Seems fine for the moment. If the weather is nice this weekend I will take it out and do a couple of hard launches and see whats what...

[matts04GTO]

I have been haiving problems with getting the car in reverse and first gear. My car was built on 10/03. I have searched and found that there is an issue with the pressure plate bolts. My question is, is there anything else that I should ask them to look at while it is at the shop do to the build date and low VIN #?

[2004Goat]

I'm also experiencing excessive clutch travel with a "loose" feeling pedal.
I had the same problem too and the dealership took care of it. Good luck.

[A_GTO]

I went to the dealer for the reverse problem and GM sent them an Email and they gave it to me and it says....

"Before leaving a manual transmission vehicle, fully press the clutch pedal in, move the shift lever into REVERSE (R), and finally apply the parking brake. Once the shift lever has been placed in REVERSE (R) with the clutch pedalin, you can turn the ignition key to LOCK, removethe key, and release the clutch."

They said do this and the problem will go away. This is total BS and has nothing to do with the problem. I told them fine I'll do this, but I'll be back in a week to get the fixed as this WILL NOT AND HAS NOTHING to do with my problem....

[gtoinlv]

HOLA, I was the original poster that this threads poster refers to. And same problem. Reverse is a pain most of the time. You can't feel it snap into reverse the way you can the other gears. So many times when you push forward to reverse and start to let the clutch out I get a spinning/grinding sound... at this point if I shove it more forard and makes a bad grinding sound and then grabs into place. What I have figured out is that when I want to go to reverseif I oush it forward into reverse and let the clutch out just slightly while continuing to apply a little more forward pressure it snaps in without all the clamor. Needless to say it isn't right. This has all occured after I was shifting from 4th to 5th and the car allowed it self to go into the reverse slot luckily as I was letting the cluthc I just sensed something was wrong so all I got was a grinding sound but didn't actually let it engage. I thought you COULDN'T get into reverse. Anyways I've noticed this shifting problem as a gradual decline. Now I even get iffy 2nd to 3rd shifts sometimes, where I push forward and the shifter gets stuck somewhere in front of 3rd and 5th if that makes sense. Oh by the way, several times when screwing around w/ revere my shifter has gotten stuck or locked up somewhere in the neutral/revers position. The only remedy is to rock it around with quite some force and it eventually comes out.
I've drvien 1 other '04 and 2 '05s all manuals and all had a completely different smooth crisp and precise shifting response. I think I'm going to print this entire thread and take her in to rectify this problem. 1 of several I'm having.

[gtOHnoes]

try putting it in first then into reverse. it makes it a hell of a lot easier. i think it lines up the synchros better. i used to have problems with reverse till started doing it this way. also, when i push the clutch in, i get a lot of vibration and while cruising my shifter just vibrates in its spot. is that normal since its a stout v8? i've got fairly early build date, 01/04 but i'm not sure on my VIN. i'll have to check it later.

[gtoinlv]

You're right,, this does work however 3rd to reverse is even better but the point is YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO. Like I said I've driven another '04 (late build) and 2 '05s that went into revers just as easy as every other gear each gear was a precise "snap-in" to place without jerky lateral movement. You didn't have to and SHOULDN'T have to use "TRICKS" to work the M6. That's just a fact. Now supposedly nothing has changed but I venture to say that those of us who are having problems got a "bad batch" or something and it should be rectified. I will be taking mine in Monday morning for this and other problems.

[MplsGTO]

My vin is 195xxx and I can't find the OK (but there is not a lot of room) Rev and 1st are too tuff to get in and I have had it pop out of first. Most the other gears aren't easy either but better. My 5spd and my three speed were no where near this bad. Correctly me if I'm wrong, 1st and rev are not sync'd are they? That was the case with my 5spd so I know that they aren't as smooth are the rest and require a little movment to get in gear sometimes. Please let me know I don't want to put any extra wear on my trany.

Thanks
:driving:

[A_GTO]

Yes I have known about the 3rd to reverse trick, BUT WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO MAKE IT WORK!! It should work from the factory!! My GTO goes in Tuesday for round 2 and then the week after for round 3 as I already know they WILL NOT FIX IT TUESDAY!! After the 3rd time I'm going for the lemon law and hopefully can either get them to give me an 05 or better yet I'll keep this one, but would want the B&M shifter installed and warranted through GM (not parts, but labor) and also a free 100g extended warranty as well....we will see!

[bobby]

I've had trouble getting mine into reverse since new and it's getting progressivly worse. It also is difficult to downshift into third. I guess I'll have to let the dealer yank the tranny and hope they can fix it.

[BigMan95Impala]

two things
one, check your manual they recommend shifting into a forward gear before shifting into reverse
and also
this tranmission from what ive been reading is a very tough tranny, and the gears are probably going to be harder to shift then lets say a t5 or something lighter duty
i mean some may definetly have a problem without a doubt but some people are just freaking out about a little stifness, this isnt a honda 5 speed
its a m12 that was designed for a 405 hp vette so maybe its so beefy that this is why it does what it does
thats just my take on the whole trans thing

[grapegoat]

mine is sitting still and is not moving.. the slave cyl is shot to sh##. and when vehicle is running the fluid just runs out the bottom of the tranny, no matter how much you put in it... wanting it to be fixed right so what are some of the things that i should say to them tomorrow when i take it in.. and also does anyone know if cutting the mufflers on these cars will void the warranty..

[JuniorCruzer]

My buddy just had his car in for problems with reverse and first. Dealer pulled the tranny and found a bad reverse syncro. I believe that he said that GM was coming out with a TSB. But they replaced the servo and a couple other things, and thing runs like a champ again.

Jon

[matts04GTO]

My 04 is in the shop now. They found that one bolt on the pressure plate was lose and 1st and 2nd gear syncs are damaged.

[gtoinlv]

Mine's in the shop too...just talked to the service manager..he said they found a bulletin on the tranny and that parts are ordered...I didn't go into details...I did print and fax him this thread and he was very appreciative. I'll post more when I know more.

[JotulFlame]

I don't think I've ever driven a manual in my life that I didn't occasionally have a problem shifting into a gear (usually when cold, though not always). The fix is exactly as stated here. Try another gear first, then try the one that won't let you in. Occasionally you may need to let the clutch out in neutral before shifting into the desired gear as well.

I always shift my GTO into one of the forward gears before putting it into reverse to back out of the garage. Mine almost always does not want to go into reverse right away. I've never thought twice about it. Personally, I think you're looking for a non-existant fix.



You're right,, this does work however 3rd to reverse is even better but the point is YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO. Like I said I've driven another '04 (late build) and 2 '05s that went into revers just as easy as every other gear each gear was a precise "snap-in" to place without jerky lateral movement. You didn't have to and SHOULDN'T have to use "TRICKS" to work the M6. That's just a fact. Now supposedly nothing has changed but I venture to say that those of us who are having problems got a "bad batch" or something and it should be rectified. I will be taking mine in Monday morning for this and other problems.

[Lil Cosmos GTO]

Interesting activity today, at about 75 mph, give or take a few, I was in the oncoming lane, passing a line of sloooow trucks. Downshifted, to 5th, downshifted to 4th, and after the clutch was depressed for the downshift to 4th, i had no access to any of the gears. The shifter would just not move into any of the upper gears, 4th, 5th, or 6th. The clutch pedal was very soft for about 1 1/2 -2", and then felt as though it was starting to put pressure onto the pressure plate.
After coasting for maybe 1/8 to 1/4 of a mile, I was able to find 5th gear and procede on my way. Looked in the rear view mirror and sawa cloud of smoke behind me.
Not a real comfortable feeling. Am glad I have lots of room to coast while I was searching for a gear. I do not know if the transmission was stuck in 4th, although the clutch was supposedly disengaged, or if the clutch was not fully disengaging.
Anyway, into the shop my car goes, for disassembly and diagnosis. I have been assured that I will not be charged for any repairs, by the service writer, as I am within warranty period (16,000 miles).
Hope this doesnt happen to any one else, it could easily be the end of life and/or loss of limbs, under other circumstances.
Does anyone have any insight as to what may have happened?

[cquist]

I put my car in the shop 2 days ago. Hard to get in reverse and twice it has popped out of 1st gear while stopped at a light. First day dealer could not duplicate the problem, so they kept it overnight and found the issues today. The tech said that it is most likely a bad syncronizer, but GM said first we must take the teansmission out and re torque the bolts and look for wear. They insist that they must put it back together tonight and re check for the problem tommorrow. If it still doesnt work then they can take the advise of the service tech. WHAT THE HELL! What did they hire the guy for if they arent going to listen to him. Oh yeah only 1900 miles on it.

[gangster1]

I was under the impression that reverse did not have synchro's thus being hard to get in reverse sometimes.

[Scott5000]

Read the specs off Tremec's own site, it does have a synchro for reverse.

Here is Tremec's web site:

http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/home/home.asp

and a link to the T-56 sevice manual, check out the T/S guide (pretty cool):

http://www.ttcautomotive.com/Englis...vice_Manual. pdf

[Dano]

Well my goat had tranny problems at 194 miles. The forks bent on the pressure plate and it would not come out of gear. They replaced the Clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, thowout bearing, and slave cylinder. Once I got the car back the shifter was notchy when shifting. However after about 1900 miles the car started to shift real smooth. I now have over 4500 miles on it and it shifts just fine, no problems at all with shifting. The only problem I have now is a very annoying shifter rattle that I need to have looked at.

[erick selva]

Well my goat had tranny problems at 194 miles. The forks bent on the pressure plate and it would not come out of gear. They replaced the Clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, thowout bearing, and slave cylinder. Once I got the car back the shifter was notchy when shifting. However after about 1900 miles the car started to shift real smooth. I now have over 4500 miles on it and it shifts just fine, no problems at all with shifting. The only problem I have now is a very annoying shifter rattle that I need to have looked at.

I had the same problem with the shifter problem. The dealership replaced the stick shift and it solve the problem. There is a plastic piece by the knob that seems to fail. At first the dealer replace the sincro (lower portion of the shifter) but it was still making the noise. After they replace the shifter (upper portion) and it solve the problem.. beware with some dealerships that say some rattle is normal. Is not. I had to go to two different dealerships and one took action. No more rattles and it shifts great.

Let me know if you need some more info.

Erick

[A_GTO]

Just went and picked up the car for the reverse problem and was told that it is normal for the shifter to get "hung up" while putting it into reverse. Even the dealer was getting it hung up while putting it into reverse, but it would go in with a little wiggle. I was told that its normal, howere if it gets worse they will take another look at it. I do have to admit that I just passed 2000 miles so maybe it need some breaking in? I bought it in October so maybe I have not driven it enough...

[cquist]

I was told today that the torqe bolts were fine and there are no signs of wear. Iwas also told that to get the problem fixed was political. They are going to keep it untill Monday so that an area engineer can make a decicion on what to do. I just want it fixed. I also use reverse from time to time so I will have to wait. By the time I get the car back I think gas will be 4.00 a gallon.

[cquist]

Still not fixed. The transmission is shifting fine outside of the car, but once they put it back in we still had a problem. It has been a week and no answer in sight. this SUCKS. It has been in the mid 70s the last few days and Im driving a beater Contour. Someone please let me drive their GTO will gas is still under 3 bucks a gallon.

[A_GTO]

Good luck the three times I took it in they said they could not duplicate the problem, but they did confess that it does stick quite often when putting it reverse. I give up as it seem they will not fix it and GM says they will not fix it as they do not believe it is a problem....

[HATRK]

Ok,
I wasn't sure how to get your attention...

After reading somewhere about a list member and his M6 tranny problems I went to my dealer today. My build date was 10/3 my tranny is sometimes...a real pain to get into reverse, and it has slipped from my 2nd gear shift.
The short of it is........
Tommorrow, my car goes in to get the tranny pulled and a few things replaced per GM. So if you are having any shifting issues, get to your dealer and have them check with Pontiac. The bolt torque and slave cylinder are known issues for some early production cars.

More later...and maybe pictures when it is out of the car!

Do you know if the M6 problems have been corrected on the 2005 cars?

[cquist]

I got my car back today. They said it was the reverse lockout staying engaged all the time, not just after the 3 miles. When I drive away I notice that theclutch has a lot of play in it now. It also rests much closer to the floor. Shifting is easy and fast, but am still worried about the play. Will check fluid levels later.

[monster5601]

Can we get a copy of the TSB posted? Sure would give us some ammunition when waltzing into the dealer.

Document ID# 1535316
2004 Pontiac GTO

Loss of Pedal Height/Low Clutch Pedal, Clutch Does not Release Fully Untill Full Pedal Travel, Difficulty Changing Gears (Tighten Clutch Pressure Plate Bolts) #04-07-31-003 - (Jun 30, 2004)
Loss of Pedal Height/Low Clutch Pedal, Clutch Doesn't Release Fully Until Full Pedal Travel, Difficulty Changing Gears (Tighten Clutch Pressure Plate Bolts)
2004 Pontiac GTO Built Prior to VIN Breakpoint 4L234149 with Manual Transmission

Condition
Some customers may comment on progressive loss of pedal height (which, if not addressed, could result in the clutch not fully releasing until full pedal travel), difficulty in changing gears or a low clutch pedal.

Cause
Root cause analysis has identified that the clutch pressure plate bolt torque on vehicles produced before the above VIN breakpoint may loosen in service. This condition was corrected in production by increasing the torque of the clutch pressure plate bolts. This change became effective in vehicle production beginning with VIN 4L234149, built on 2/11/04.

[HATRK]

Document ID# 1535316
2004 Pontiac GTO

Loss of Pedal Height/Low Clutch Pedal, Clutch Does not Release Fully Untill Full Pedal Travel, Difficulty Changing Gears (Tighten Clutch Pressure Plate Bolts) #04-07-31-003 - (Jun 30, 2004)
Loss of Pedal Height/Low Clutch Pedal, Clutch Doesn't Release Fully Until Full Pedal Travel, Difficulty Changing Gears (Tighten Clutch Pressure Plate Bolts)
2004 Pontiac GTO Built Prior to VIN Breakpoint 4L234149 with Manual Transmission

Condition
Some customers may comment on progressive loss of pedal height (which, if not addressed, could result in the clutch not fully releasing until full pedal travel), difficulty in changing gears or a low clutch pedal.

Cause
Root cause analysis has identified that the clutch pressure plate bolt torque on vehicles produced before the above VIN breakpoint may loosen in service. This condition was corrected in production by increasing the torque of the clutch pressure plate bolts. This change became effective in vehicle production beginning with VIN 4L234149, built on 2/11/04.

So this problem should not exist on the 2005 cars, right?

[A_GTO]

2005 have the same problems from what I have heard....

[monster5601]

2005 have the same problems from what I have heard....

I'm not seeing this issue (or any other) on my 05 Goat.

[ROKS ROKET]

My build date is 12/03, but I do have a yellow stamped ok on the left (looking at the motor) cylinder. But this stamp is in the front, not on the rear of the cylinder. My dealer and I put a notice in my folder about this and if there is a problem later on, it will be fixed under warrantee. They have no problem doing the re-tourqe/check at anytime I want. I'll probably wait to see if it gets worse, but I will have it done before my warrantee runs out.

ROK

[04M6_CA]

I have the same exact problem that GTOINLV described earlier in this thread
"Oh by the way, several times when screwing around w/ revere my shifter has gotten stuck or locked up somewhere in the neutral/revers position. The only remedy is to rock it around with quite some force and it eventually comes out. " It actually goes in to reverse fine, just doesn't want to come out. All other shifts are fine too. What could it be??:confused:

[blubyu]

JUst dropped my 04 m6 off at the stealership this morning. All of the issues mentioned in the previous posts I have had recently. Not being to get throught the grears this morning with repeated tries pressing the clutch to the floor, and when I did get into gear it seemed as if the clutch ingaged very close th the floor.

[blubyu]

My build date is 12/03 as well

[Steel Chicken]

I went to the dealer for the reverse problem and GM sent them an Email and they gave it to me and it says....

"Before leaving a manual transmission vehicle, fully press the clutch pedal in, move the shift lever into REVERSE (R), and finally apply the parking brake. Once the shift lever has been placed in REVERSE (R) with the clutch pedalin, you can turn the ignition key to LOCK, removethe key, and release the clutch."

They said do this and the problem will go away. This is total BS and has nothing to do with the problem. I told them fine I'll do this, but I'll be back in a week to get the fixed as this WILL NOT AND HAS NOTHING to do with my problem....

thats the procedure for not killing your battery because the genuises who designed the headlight control logic couldn't make it simpler

[blubyu]

Service advisor called later and explained that he needed approval for the labor to pull the trans., just incase the clutch need to be replaced due to abuse. I'm 46, been around the block few times. The clutch was not slipping at all, wouldn't that be one of the first signs of problems with a wore out clutch? That is not the problem I'm experencing, I'll jam the clutch to the floor and it seems as if it's not disengageing or aleast not enough or just barely enough and then I can get it into gear. I asked the service advisor If he was aware of the TSB's on the pressure plate bolts and of course he said yes. The clutch would engage about an 1 i/2 in. from the floor, not all the way up at the top of the peddel arc. The car just turned 20K and 10K of those mile I put on myself 70% of that was interstate, I'm a notary and do loan doc's in three countys. What abuse could they be concerned with? No funny car burnouts here just lotts of bugs on the front clip.

[Wicked Vision]

My car with VIN#230XXX , had the pressure plate bolts tightened at the dealer by the previous owner.

[gtore62]

i've been through the clutch pressure plate bolts soap opera. the first dealer where i bought the car said they spoke to the gm engeneers, and nothing was wrong. the 2nd dealer whom i bought the head/cam package from was more helpful and retorqued the bolts and my clutch slipping problems went away. no clutch problems since then. and just recently the reverse selfdestroyed but it was very gradual progress. shifting was just a bit difficult at first and it just got progressively worse. they changed the rev. sync. along with the fork and other small part and rev. shifting was smooth at the first try without having to cycle to any other gear first and the rest of the gears also shifted smooth. i checked the fluid level and it was at 3.8qts. reserviced it to the supposedly 5.4 qts. per the service and owners manuals and guess what, reverse and the other gears became more difficult to shift. so i drained it and filled it with 3.8qts. using the fill port as the level indicator. guess what shifting got real smooth again. i then contacted tremec and spoke to the tech support rep. and he was surprised gm was calling for 5.4qts. , he said with the exception of the corvette which has a tranny cooler, the others always used 3.8 qts. and you will always have about 4oz. of risidual. he contacted their tremec/gm egineer who said that gm and their r/d group concluded that our trannys need extra fluid for cooling. the trmec rep. advised me to continue using 3.8qts. if my shifting performance improved over the 5.4qts. well i always shift directly into reverse in very cold or warm weather without a hitch. i hope this helps some of you guys. just for the record i used atf3 and the car was leveled. one other note: the tech said our trannys. are slightly tilted when in place.

[traumadog]

FWIW - I've started to get some hard shifting into ANY gear when at a standstill and the clutch had been let out (like sitting at a stop light). This is much worse when it's cold, but only a little better when warm.

There's no problem whatsoever when shifting gears while moving, and if the car rolls slightly, the shifter will just "pop" in.

Makes me wonder if this is an issue in the tranny, such as being overfilled(?) (I did the RP Synchromax swap and put in 4.6 quarts).

Makes me wonder with my B&M and the fluids if this would kill any warranty claim...


Oh, and I've got a 10/03, VIN 174xxx vehicle.

[HawaiianGoat]

My M6 stopped shifting / hard failure last week Wednesday on the way home. This was not graudual. It worked fine up until Wednesday morning, then I noticed the shifter seemed stiff going from gear to gear getting on the freeway. When I got to work, it would not go into reverse at all, until I shut off the engine. Then, when starting it with the clutch fully depressed, it was still catching - the engine died out while braking to keep from surging into the wall. On the way home that night, depressing the clutch fully did nothing - clutch wouldn't disengage at all. Had to start the car IN GEAR / 1st from the signal light then "pop" it into 4th. Luckily, I got all the way home in 4th gear with no red lights! It won't shift between any gear or from neutral to/from any gear while the engine is running with clutch fully depressed. It's like the clutch will not disengage.

The only indication that something was not right is that the clutch pedal had a very minor pulsation when depressing and releasing it, for the last few weeks, more so when cold. Other than that, everything was fine. I have never had trouble changing gears or going into reverse. Absolutely no clutch slippage either. No funny noises. I don't do burnouts or "abuse" the clutch / tranny. I checked the clutch fluid reservoir at work on failure day and it was full. Checked it again at home Thursday, still full. Went under car - no fluid leaks from slave cylinder, no fluid on the driveway.

The car was towed into my nearest dealer this morning, covered by GM. But, they will not give me a Loaner until they can confirm that the problem is warranty? GIVE ME A BREAK! I just got a call from the dealer saying they still cannot give me a loaner, the tech is removing the transmission to determine cause but the tech suspects "wear"? Wear of what? The car has only 16k miles. My last V8 manual trans went 106k on it's clutch plate ('89 Ford Mustang 5.0 GT) .

My GTO is VIN 281xxx / build date 6/04. I think it's beyond the Loose Flywheel Bolts TSB's breakpoint but sounds like the same problem below, only much worse. Is this the loose flywheel bolts or something else?

PS, while I was under the car, I noticed I've got front strut rub marks on both sides. Then, while looking for TSB's yesterday here, I found the thread about the plastic "GTO" Engine Covers wearing a crack in the fuel line - some guy's GTO went totally up in flames! I didn't have time to check my GTO for that problem before the tow truck got here this morning. Jeeeez!

FWIW - I've started to get some hard shifting into ANY gear when at a standstill and the clutch had been let out (like sitting at a stop light). This is much worse when it's cold, but only a little better when warm.

There's no problem whatsoever when shifting gears while moving, and if the car rolls slightly, the shifter will just "pop" in.

Makes me wonder if this is an issue in the tranny, such as being overfilled(?) (I did the RP Synchromax swap and put in 4.6 quarts).

Makes me wonder with my B&M and the fluids if this would kill any warranty claim...


Oh, and I've got a 10/03, VIN 174xxx vehicle.

[Tony D]

HOLA, I was the original poster that this threads poster refers to. And same problem. Reverse is a pain most of the time. You can't feel it snap into reverse the way you can the other gears. So many times when you push forward to reverse and start to let the clutch out I get a spinning/grinding sound... at this point if I shove it more forard and makes a bad grinding sound and then grabs into place. What I have figured out is that when I want to go to reverseif I oush it forward into reverse and let the clutch out just slightly while continuing to apply a little more forward pressure it snaps in without all the clamor. Needless to say it isn't right. This has all occured after I was shifting from 4th to 5th and the car allowed it self to go into the reverse slot luckily as I was letting the cluthc I just sensed something was wrong so all I got was a grinding sound but didn't actually let it engage. I thought you COULDN'T get into reverse. Anyways I've noticed this shifting problem as a gradual decline. Now I even get iffy 2nd to 3rd shifts sometimes, where I push forward and the shifter gets stuck somewhere in front of 3rd and 5th if that makes sense. Oh by the way, several times when screwing around w/ revere my shifter has gotten stuck or locked up somewhere in the neutral/revers position. The only remedy is to rock it around with quite some force and it eventually comes out.
I've drvien 1 other '04 and 2 '05s all manuals and all had a completely different smooth crisp and precise shifting response. I think I'm going to print this entire thread and take her in to rectify this problem. 1 of several I'm having.


The same EXACT thing happend to me, went from 4th to reverse at 80mph, got some nice grinding sounds. Now my reverse is all &^%* up. Also I've had it pop out of 2nd and 3rd several times. Haven't done anything about it yet, need to get it in to the dealer to see what they say

[simpleGTO]

Your security system will help him see it your way. I use a Glock .357 sig to help my point of view. Good luck.

[Tony D]

LOL NICE! :boink: