Just got back from the range...

[Scurvy]

...and I wanted to share this with you guys.

I got a SIGp220 for xmas (best present ever) and this was my 3rd time shooting it. Went out to the range today and as we were finishing up I was going to put my last 5 rounds through it and I figured what the hell.

Set the target out to the standard 21ft and proceeded to put the 5 shots down range Double Action Only. Decocked the hammer before every shot. Now this SIG has maybe 200rds through it total so the trigger hasn't even begun to smooth out.

I never really shoot double action period but the 2 previous time at the range I used a friends SIGp250 which is a light double action only trigger (not DAK).

Well I guess it helped...

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa27/Scurvy092/ 01-18-08_1350.jpg

[st8gunner]

I have a Sig P220S Sport. All match grade, vented compensator, hooked up trigger, all that jazz.

Hands down, the most accurate gun I've ever shot.

Not me in the vid:


http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m276/Foxwulf/th _P4190029.jpg (http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m276/Foxwulf/? action=view&current=P4190029.flv)

[Octomonkey]

I wanna go shoot my .223 :(

[Midnight Goat]

Nice! man i wish i could afford a handgun right now. Its not the gun thats expensive its the ass rape nys gives you to get the permit.

[Scurvy]

I have a Sig P220S Sport. All match grade, vented compensator, hooked up trigger, all that jazz.

Hands down, the most accurate gun I've ever shot.

Not me in the vid:




do you have the SIG short reset trigger on it or just a trigger job?

[BubbaDuss]

I <3 my Sig :-)

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

very well done. my 1911 will do that as well, though it's single action only. that double action pull can be a bitch. i'll admit that i doubt i could pull that off with my beretta in double action.

[Scurvy]

i'll admit that i doubt i could pull that off with my beretta in double action.

That's why I'm proud of it and wanted to share

[GTOhaas07]

Nicely done, all I've gotten to fire in my life was a pos M9 in boot.

[StormSigma]

Damn, I need to snap a pic of my action with my new S&M M&P .45 from MY trip to the range last weekend. I got one exact bullseye at 25 feet, got excited then started firing to the right. Most accurate pistol I've ever shot, however, when I'm making the effort.

[Jizz]

Nice shooting.

I have a Sig...


but it is the Mosquito :D

http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/sig/sig_mosq uito.jpg

[TenEchs]

I've had my P220 since 1988. One of my favorite handguns. It has always been a pleasure to shoot.

[slacker]

i just got a really nice new scope for my ar-15, and need to get to the range and sight that bish in, now ill be able to reach out and touch someone lol.

[wolfdogs]

nice shootin broh!!!!

you'd be impressed at my Ultra Raptor with only that 3" barrel. It's as accurate if not more so than the xd .45 4" at 21 feet.

[Bandit]

I'm not a big Sig fan myself, but they do make a damn fine pistol. Congrats.

Went to the range last weekend with a few of my Dodge forum buddies, and pulled this off with my HK P30 (also brought out the HK45 and a few other toys).

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/649/dsc9661kl0. jpg


http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/1912/dsc9125cop yzj2.jpg



http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3928/dsc9082copys b8.jpg



http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/220/dsc9165cr7. jpg

[Scurvy]

nice shootin broh!!!!

you'd be impressed at my Ultra Raptor with only that 3" barrel. It's as accurate if not more so than the xd .45 4" at 21 feet.

yeah well smooth single action is easy to be accurate with. I'd love to try it though.

The xd is definitely accurate for a combat gun. I'm about as accurate with mine as I am with the p220

Once I get the short reset system put on the sig I expect accuracy to shoot through the roof.

[Scurvy]

I'm not a big Sig fan myself, but they do make a damn fine pistol. Congrats.

Went to the range last weekend with a few of my Dodge forum buddies, and pulled this off with my HK P30 (also brought out the HK45 and a few other toys).

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/649/dsc9661kl0. jpg




How far out were you?

I have a USP compact in .45 and I can't hit shit with it. I've only shot it a few times but I'm usually pretty good straight from the get go. I'll hang onto it for another 6 months or so and if I don't get any better with it I'll sell it at the show in July.

As you can see:

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa27/Scurvy092/ 01-09-08_2311.jpg

[Bandit]

That target was 50 feet, although I normally only practice for "real situations" at 21 feet. We were kind of in the mood of showing each other up so that's how it ended up there.

Trade your USP 45 in for the new HK45.. totally different animal and I love mine so much I sold all my 1911's, and will likely never buy one again.

[Scurvy]

good stuff. How long have you been shooting and why type of ammo do you use?

How much are the HK45s?

I think if I do trade the USP in it'll be for a CX4 carbine in .45

[Bandit]

I've been shooting about 20 years now I guess. I shot IPSC back about 10 years ago as well as being an instructor. So my buddies like to shoot with me because I give them little pointers here and there, and they always improve a bit.

I bought both my P30 and HK45 the same week that they released (a month or so ago) so the prices were a tad higher... about a grand for each of them. I have seen a few places now selling them for $800-$900 though, so deals can be had.

The interchangeable backstraps on the HK45 really allow for a nice custom fit, and the trigger is terrific. The P30 gives you more adjustability however with 3 different backstraps and 3 sets of side panels. Once you put a P30 in your hands... you'll melt.

Here are some more pics I took of mine...

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/1497/dsc9195up9 .jpg



http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3643/dsc9193hk8 .jpg



http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/9751/dsc9180cop yzd1.jpg



http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1149/dsc9145cop yph8.jpg



http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6563/dsc9080ag1 .jpg



http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3057/dsc9106qr2 .jpg



http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3599/dsc9121ur8 .jpg



I never was much of a rifle guy, but am getting interested now. I am currently thinking of getting the new Microtech AUG.

[Scurvy]

I've only been shooting for just over a year now and I use crappy range ammo. red box, cci or WWB.

I'd shy away from the microtech AUG. Heard bad things. You can't backwards engineer a Steyr AUG. They only reason Australia was able to do it was because they got the licensing and tooling from Steyr.

microtech also uses proprietary mags which is lame.

[Bandit]

I've only been shooting for just over a year now and I use crappy range ammo. red box, cci or WWB.

I'd shy away from the microtech AUG. Heard bad things. You can't backwards engineer a Steyr AUG. They only reason Australia was able to do it was because they got the licensing and tooling from Steyr.

microtech also uses proprietary mags which is lame.

Really? I had only read good things. But then again, I just began researching it... I'll dig some more, thanks for the heads-up.

Actually, it will accept Steyr AUG mags. One of the shop guys whipped one out and showed me.

[Bandit]

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa27/Scurvy092/ 01-09-08_2311.jpg

I've only been shooting for just over a year now and I use crappy range ammo. red box, cci or WWB.

If you'd like, here is some quick advice... you can take it or leave it....

It looks like you have too little of your finger on the trigger. When this happens shots tend to pull left a bit as when you are pulling the trigger your finger is pushing the gun to the left a little. If you have too much finger on the trigger, you'll see your shots pull to the right... so try it a few ways, review your target, and adjust accordingly. (This of course will be the reverse if you are a lefty).

I see you had one flyer down low... flyers happen to everyone, but in this case it could be that you're anticipating. When you anticipate (either anticipating recoil or the 'bang') you tend to push down on the pistol to sort of brace yourself. Another cause could be jerking the trigger trying to fire in a hurry.

All of the above are completely normal, and something that most everyone has to work past as they progress. An exercise I used to teach that works well for trigger control is this....

In a safe area, unload and triple check your pistol.

Place an EMPTY shell casing on the muzzle end of your slide (primer area down on slide, open case up to the sky)

Work your trigger

Repeat until the casing does NOT fall off the slide.

Best of luck, and enjoy the hobby.

[MrYenko]

The godamned city forced my range out of business, and I refuse to use the municipal range, because the county range-masters treat the shooters like criminals. No double taps, No rapid fire, No holstered weapons, etc etc. Thats not even counting the rules they make up to screw with you and make themselves feel impressive.

And its only a 100yd range. Fine for a pistol, but nearly useless for anything other than plinking with anything but a .22.

I WANT MY RANGE BACK, BROWARD COUNTY :banghead::mad:

[wolfdogs]

yeah well smooth single action is easy to be accurate with. I'd love to try it though.

The xd is definitely accurate for a combat gun. I'm about as accurate with mine as I am with the p220

Once I get the short reset system put on the sig I expect accuracy to shoot through the roof. we'll get together one day this year for sure. I'd love to let you shoot this little hammer... the range in stafford or wherever...

http://www.gunshopfinder.com/Kimber/Ultra_Raptor_R ight.jpg

[TRAMS_AM]

I've been looking to get a pistol for the range and home defense. So far, I'm interested in the Sig P229, or a USP Compact in .40. I don't plan on getting a CCW, so I'm not sure if getting a compact is the best way to go, and if the extra inch or two of barrel you get with a full size would make a meaningful impact on accuracy.

The Sig is available in DAK, and as a novice shooter I was wondering if a more consistent feeling trigger would be better, and if double-strike would help.

A friend told me to go down to the range and see if they have rentals so I could try out a variety of pistols. Has anyone else found this helpful?

The XD was also recommended to me in another thread, how do the XD owners feel about theirs?

Any advice is appreciated!

[Bandit]

The godamned city forced my range out of business, and I refuse to use the municipal range, because the county range-masters treat the shooters like criminals. No double taps, No rapid fire, No holstered weapons, etc etc. Thats not even counting the rules they make up to screw with you and make themselves feel impressive.

And its only a 100yd range. Fine for a pistol, but nearly useless for anything other than plinking with anything but a .22.

I WANT MY RANGE BACK, BROWARD COUNTY :banghead::mad:

Which range got shut down? I used to shoot at Shooters Emporium in Pompano (Sample Road I believe) and Revere Gun Range just down the road from there.

Shooters was always the largest in the area. There's also Gator Guns in WPB.

I've been looking to get a pistol for the range and home defense. So far, I'm interested in the Sig P229, or a USP Compact in .40. I don't plan on getting a CCW, so I'm not sure if getting a compact is the best way to go, and if the extra inch or two of barrel you get with a full size would make a meaningful impact on accuracy.

The Sig is available in DAK, and as a novice shooter I was wondering if a more consistent feeling trigger would be better, and if double-strike would help.

A friend told me to go down to the range and see if they have rentals so I could try out a variety of pistols. Has anyone else found this helpful?

The XD was also recommended to me in another thread, how do the XD owners feel about theirs?

Any advice is appreciated!

The most important thing about a pistol is how it fits your hand. Case in point.. I typically only buy single action pistols (like the 1911, HKP7M8 or Browning Hi Power), or a Glock (Safe Action trigger, same consistent pull from shot to shot without the ridiculous long/hard DA trigger pull), but Once I put that P30 in my hand it was all over. The grip felt like the gun melted into the contours of my hand.

I'm not an XD fan, but I won't go into all that and spark a Glock vs XD thread... those get bad. I will say that they are well made and reliable however.

Going and renting a gun at a range is the best advice. See what fits your mitt, and what you like the feel of shooting.

Don't get all caught up in the caliber hype. .40 is a great round, but can be a bit rough for those who don't shoot often. It has a sharper recoil than a 9mm and more muzzle flip. A 9mm is a perfectly fine round, and is comfortable to shoot, and very accurate. .45ACP is terrific, but would be overkill for a new shooter.

I would stress that you talk with some professionals on your choice however... if this will purely be for home defense, you should look seriously into a shotgun instead. I won't get into this too deep, but for home defense a shotgun is more practical, and safer for those around you.

Even if you won't be carrying, I suggest taking a good CCW course as it gives you some great safety basics, some law education (application of deadly force), and a good all-around basic training. It would also benefit you to take a level one tactical course to further educate you on how to defend your life, and more importantly how to be more aware so that you could possibly avoid any life or death situations entirely.

[Scurvy]

If you'd like, here is some quick advice... you can take it or leave it....

It looks like you have too little of your finger on the trigger. When this happens shots tend to pull left a bit as when you are pulling the trigger your finger is pushing the gun to the left a little. If you have too much finger on the trigger, you'll see your shots pull to the right... so try it a few ways, review your target, and adjust accordingly. (This of course will be the reverse if you are a lefty).

I see you had one flyer down low... flyers happen to everyone, but in this case it could be that you're anticipating. When you anticipate (either anticipating recoil or the 'bang') you tend to push down on the pistol to sort of brace yourself. Another cause could be jerking the trigger trying to fire in a hurry.

All of the above are completely normal, and something that most everyone has to work past as they progress. An exercise I used to teach that works well for trigger control is this....

In a safe area, unload and triple check your pistol.

Place an EMPTY shell casing on the muzzle end of your slide (primer area down on slide, open case up to the sky)

Work your trigger

Repeat until the casing does NOT fall off the slide.

Best of luck, and enjoy the hobby.

Thanks for the advice, I'll try to put a little less finger on the trigger. I usually use the meatiest part at the end of my finger halfway between the joint and the tip.

I have pretty good trigger control IMHO, as evidenced by the first picture, just not with the HK. I don't know if there's something about the trigger on the Hk that's different than my sig or my XD. I'll load up snap caps and give it a go though.

I'm pretty sure I have stopped anticipating my shots.

This is the same day I shot the USP just with my XD.

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa27/Scurvy092/ 01-09-08_2313.jpg

[TenEchs]

I do like my P220, but I have a lot more fun shooting this 45.


http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachment.php?attach mentid=74230&stc=1&d=1200709760

[TRAMS_AM]

The most important thing about a pistol is how it fits your hand. Case in point.. I typically only buy single action pistols (like the 1911, HKP7M8 or Browning Hi Power), or a Glock (Safe Action trigger, same consistent pull from shot to shot without the ridiculous long/hard DA trigger pull), but Once I put that P30 in my hand it was all over. The grip felt like the gun melted into the contours of my hand.

Would you suggest starting with DAO over a DA/SA?

Going and renting a gun at a range is the best advice. See what fits your mitt, and what you like the feel of shooting.

If I'm not going to carry, though, is getting a compact unwise?

Don't get all caught up in the caliber hype. .40 is a great round, but can be a bit rough for those who don't shoot often. It has a sharper recoil than a 9mm and more muzzle flip. A 9mm is a perfectly fine round, and is comfortable to shoot, and very accurate. .45ACP is terrific, but would be overkill for a new shooter.

My retired C-130 Loadmaster uncle swears by .45 ACP and hates composite frames, but he's a bit old school I suppose. I know for sure that .45 is too much for my skill level. Does a .40 kick that much more than a 9mm?

I would stress that you talk with some professionals on your choice however... if this will purely be for home defense, you should look seriously into a shotgun instead. I won't get into this too deep, but for home defense a shotgun is more practical, and safer for those around you.

My primary interest is in target shooting and recreation, I just figured that the skills and knowledge acquired from that would be helpful should I ever need to use a weapon for defense. I've heard a lot about overpenetration and the danger it poses to others (who are not your target). I'm not so serious about target shooting as to get a .22LR plinking gun, so I suppose what I really want is something that I can use primarily for sport, but that would also be useful for defense.

Even if you won't be carrying, I suggest taking a good CCW course as it gives you some great safety basics, some law education (application of deadly force), and a good all-around basic training. It would also benefit you to take a level one tactical course to further educate you on how to defend your life, and more importantly how to be more aware so that you could possibly avoid any life or death situations entirely.

This sounds like great advice. I was going to take a safety class either before or immediately after the purchase. I was told that the local range would have good info on classes in the area.

Thanks for the reply!

[Riddlefox]

My best effort - 50 shots at 15 yards:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/RiddleFox/G uns/P7310010.jpg

I think the platform and how it fits in your hand really matters as far as comfort in shooting. I was teaching a girl to shoot once and she hated shooting the Beretta 92FS because she couldn't reach around the fat grip, while she loved shooting the 1911 because of its slim grip that fit her hand perfectly. The feel of the recoil is different too; a 9mm is snappier than a .45.

[elpuerco]

I do like my P220, but I have a lot more fun shooting this 45.


http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachment.php?attach mentid=74230&stc=1&d=1200709760

I don't know jack about firearms, but is that a Colt Peacemaker?

[TenEchs]

I don't know jack about firearms, but is that a Colt Peacemaker?

Colt Single Action Army (SAA) in .45 Colt (yes, also called Peacemaker). This is a 3rd Generation with the 7 1/2 in barrel.

[elpuerco]

Colt Single Action Army (SAA) in .45 Colt (yes, also called Peacemaker). This is a 3rd Generation with the 7 1/2 in barrel.

Wild West Tech taught me something, afterall. :gr_jest:

[Bandit]

Thanks for the advice, I'll try to put a little less finger on the trigger. I usually use the meatiest part at the end of my finger halfway between the joint and the tip.

I have pretty good trigger control IMHO, as evidenced by the first picture, just not with the HK. I don't know if there's something about the trigger on the Hk that's different than my sig or my XD. I'll load up snap caps and give it a go though.

I'm pretty sure I have stopped anticipating my shots.

This is the same day I shot the USP just with my XD.

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa27/Scurvy092/ 01-09-08_2313.jpg

Lookin' good!




Would you suggest starting with DAO over a DA/SA?

Honestly, this will come down to being a personal choice. I know many people who are very accurate and consistent with all types of triggers.

Some people get easily discouraged (myself included) with DAO because of the long, revolver-like trigger pull. It is good however on consistency because the trigger action does not change from shot to shot.

Once you become familiarized with firearm safety, I suggest a Glock. Like a revolver, there is no external safety to manipulate, so the best safety is finger off the trigger until ready to fire. Some find that intimidating... but common sense is the best safety (and there are internal safeties). Some dislike the grip angle on the Glock, I happen to love it, but again that's a personal choice. If you place one in your hand and like the feel, rent one and shoot it. It will have that great consistent trigger, but without the exaggerated long pull as on a DAO pistol. Plus once you become familiarized with its operation, it does have a very short reset on the trigger. I was one of the earlier people to begin shooting Glock in IPSC (competition) and I loved it.

Others to consider that many people rave about are anything in the CZ line due to the comfortable grip, and also the Browning Hi Power. If money is not a limiting factor... HK P7M8 is about the best you can own. BUT it has a very unique system that kind of requires you to dedicate yourself only to that pistol. That trigger will be akin to a single action 1911 as far as trigger travel and break.

But yes... hit that shop and play with as much as you can. What you feel more comfortable with is the best for you.



If I'm not going to carry, though, is getting a compact unwise?

It's not unwise, but it may be impractical honestly. A longer barrel means a longer sight radius so it can be more accurate. Plus the longer barrel normally reduces muzzle rise. If you're not going to carry it, then don't restrict yourself to those smaller guns.



My retired C-130 Loadmaster uncle swears by .45 ACP and hates composite frames, but he's a bit old school I suppose. I know for sure that .45 is too much for my skill level. Does a .40 kick that much more than a 9mm?

The .45 is a terrific round, but as I stated above, you're right... not always the best for a novice shooter (although many people have started there and love it).

The generally accepted "best caliber" is the .357 Magnum. Incredible stopping power, very accurate, and when you practice you can use .38 Special which is much cheaper to shoot. But, that's mainly a revolver round, not often seen as an autoloader round. (Don't be confused... .357 Sig is a different animal).

I personally like shooting .40 Cal, but it is not as accurate technically as a 9mm or .45ACP. Now i say technically because in testing that's true... but you're also not shooting at 100 yards to defend your life. Most anything is accurate within 21 feet. Here's a quick breakdown of calibers and how they shoot...

.22 no real felt recoil, no muzzle rise in most guns. Sharp report as it is a supersonic round. Don;t let the small caliber fool you... more people are killed each year with a .22 than any other single round.

.25 Slightly noticeable recoil, no real muzzle flip in most guns. But you're probably better off throwing a rabid hamster in someone's face than shooting them with a .25. Those who carry a .25 pocket gun will likely jam it in the offender's eye socket when they shoot (that's not a joke, but a real tactic for these)

.32 Slight recoil, very slight muzzle flip. Fairly effective as a pocket round, only for extremely short range (face to face), and typically only carried as a backup and not a primary.

.380 Slight recoil, slight muzzle jump. .380 is usually in a fuller weighted frame than the previous calibers, so that is why it doesn't jump much. Put a .380 in a similar gun to the Seecamp .32 and it would jump quite a bit. Good little round, but again... most people carry it as a secondary piece.

.38 Special (revolver) Slight recoil, slight muzzle rise. Good round, but you need to have the right ammo for self defense to rely on it.

9mm. Moderate recoil, distinct muzzle flip in most guns, loud report especially in supersonic rounds. It has a sharp SNAPPING motion to the recoil. Great round. Efficient, supersonic (but you can buy subsonic ammo), very accurate. Also one of the easiest rounds for an automatic to feed because of the shape of the bullet. Also fairly inexpensive to shoot when you want to practice. This is one of my favorite rounds. For carry it usually means fairly slim and small gun with high capacity.

.357 Magnum. Moderate to heavy recoil depending on gun and potency of the ammo. Recoil has a bit of a shock to it, muzzle flip can in some cases be drastic. Simply one of the best "man-stoppers" out there. Revolver only (unless you feel like wielding around a Desert Eagle).

.40 Cal. Again, good round, but not technically as accurate as many surrounding it. Moderate recoil, significant muzzle flip in some guns. A full sized Glock for example will buffer this better than a similar sized Sig. Some novice shooters do not like this round. It really is a love it or hate it round. I used to really love it, but now i don't own any 40's.

.45ACP. Significant recoil, significant muzzle flip. Instead of the "snapping" action of a 9mm most users say the 45 has a hard rolling motion to it. Instead of snapping straight upwards, it kind of well... rolls upwards in what feels like a slower motion. There is some "shock" to your hand/arm from the recoil depending on the gun used. BUT if you shoot a 45 and like it... damn, you can't really beat them. .45 is my favorite round personally.

10mm. Significant recoil, moderate muzzle flip. Serious shock as it shoots, but it shoots flatly. Devastating little round... just f-in wicked mean and nasty. But extremely expensive, and not fun to shoot on long range sessions for most people.

There are tons more, but those are your major rounds. If you ever want to HATE shooting... go shoot a 500 S&W. The concussion alone literally hurts your face like you're being punched. I shit you not.



My primary interest is in target shooting and recreation, I just figured that the skills and knowledge acquired from that would be helpful should I ever need to use a weapon for defense. I've heard a lot about overpenetration and the danger it poses to others (who are not your target). I'm not so serious about target shooting as to get a .22LR plinking gun, so I suppose what I really want is something that I can use primarily for sport, but that would also be useful for defense.


Again, for HOME defense.. buy a good shotgun like a Remington 870 or the good ole cheapie... Mossburg 500. Damn good shotguns and cheap prices.

If you want to know more about my thoughts on shotguns... do a search on my name and see one of my older posts about it. Then you'll also see why I won't go down that road again... it is always controversial.

If you still decide to use a handgun, no worries. Just get what suits you best as far as how it feels in your hand, and how well you can shoot it. Toss a TAC-lite on it and you should be in fine shape.


This sounds like great advice. I was going to take a safety class either before or immediately after the purchase. I was told that the local range would have good info on classes in the area.

Thanks for the reply!


Just a sidebar on the Sig thing. They make a damn fine weapon that is built like a tank and can be very reliable. Some find the grip to be cumbersome as it is very thick on the model you specified (P229), and because the barrel sits so high up in the frame on Sigs... they do tend to have more muzzle flip than comparable pistols.

My best effort - 50 shots at 15 yards:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/RiddleFox/G uns/P7310010.jpg

I think the platform and how it fits in your hand really matters as far as comfort in shooting. I was teaching a girl to shoot once and she hated shooting the Beretta 92FS because she couldn't reach around the fat grip, while she loved shooting the 1911 because of its slim grip that fit her hand perfectly. The feel of the recoil is different too; a 9mm is snappier than a .45.



Nice shooting.

Yeah, the Beretta does have a large grip. Women tend to like the slimmer guns for the most part. She might like the Glock 19 however since it is really slim. Another great idea would be the HK USP9 Compact or the P2000SK.