Another handgun thread.... What should I buy?

[asaberan]

So I'm working on that list you make as a kid..... You know, the list of all the things you're gonna have when you grow up?

Well anyway, I'm at "handgun" now so I've been looking around.

Why do I want it? Well, I just want a handgun I guess.... Also for home protection, although I seriously doubt I'd ever need it for that. Plus I'd love to go to the range.

I read just about every gun thread on this forum and I've done a decent amount of research. I know there are lots of gun forums, but they seem to be a bit biased (for example, what answer do you think I'll get at "Sigforum.com?"), so I'm here for hopefully a less biased opinion.

So I went to the gun shop on Monday (and back again today) and held a few. I really wan't comfortable with any of the Glock's, so they're pretty much out. I liked the Springfield Armory XD40, but it wasn't completely comfortable for me, I didn't really like the hand safety on the back of the handle, it just didn't feel right. Then I kinda made a little bit of a mistake and looked at the Sigs........ It's kinda like going to a car dealership and driving a Ferrari and then going back to a "regular car." Except this time the Sig is within my reach vs. a Ferrari, which is unobtainable for me (right now anyway :)). After I held a Sig p229 Equinox and a P220 (I think), nothing else was nearly as nice. I still liked the XD40, but it obviously doesn't seem nearly as nice as the Sigs.... The problem was the one I picked out was $1069 (ouch).... vs. the XD40 at $550. My problem is that I never like to settle for anything and I could feasibly spend a thousand bucks on a gun even though my wife thinks I'm insane for considering it. If I bought the XD, I'd always wish I'd bought the Sig and I'm sure if I buy the Sig, I still won't be satisfied.

So I come to the GTO forum asking these questions:
1. This is obviously my first handgun, so do I need a 9mm, 40, 45? Or could I start out with a Sig Mosquito (approx $325-400) and then work my way up to a 40 or 45? I keep coming back to the "stopping power" issue in my head.... If I'm gonna get one, it might as well be able to take somebody out if I need it to, right?
2. Should I still consider the XD40 or should I just go ahead and keep my eye on the Sigs?
3. I know you can buy guns from stores and people online and you have to send it to an FFA, but how common is this? I mean will the gun dealer be willing to do things like this? How much does it cost? I searched online, but most of the info just says "it's not complicated at all" and that's about it. The prices of guns online are a few hundred dollars cheaper in the case of these Sigs.
4. From what I understand, the Sigs have no safety other than the "de-cocker." How important is this? I will likely keep it in a safe in my closet and I have no kids right now, I just don't need a hole in my foot.

I do already own a 12 gauge, so please don't suggest that :).

[bear]

If i were you i would find a gun shop that carries the S&W MP, it has grip inserts that you can pick the one that feels best to you personaly. I think they are in the same price ballpark with the XD.

[GerminaTOr]

A friend of mine has a S&W40 and I love it! Here's a vid os me taking it for a "test drive".

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g19/germandlola/ th_ShootingRange002.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g19/germandlola/ ?action=view&current=ShootingRange002.flv)

[The Big D]

a s&w 9mm does the job for me, but i bought my grandpa a s&w.38 special and he loves it, mainly because it was he carried when he worked for the corrections department

[wolfdogs]

that "safety" on the back of the xd40 is the same type safety used on 911's now... its a good thing to have, esp. with the firing set up of the SA XD and like weapons. A little hand could reach out, pull the trig and the gun would discharge with out it...

have you considered a premium 1911? Kimbers, Brown, Wilson Combat, are assembled by gun smiths, quality control checks with every piece... where as "assembly line" guns don't get that.. and faults in manufacturing are a hassle to get fixed...

[Scurvy]

A) you can get a base sig for in the 700-800 range. You can buy a factory refurbished sig p220 (police turn in) for the same price as an XD

B) you live in a very gun unfriendly state so make sure you follow all the laws.

C) sig mosquito is a .22lr which is no good for self defense unless you stick it in the guys eye socket before you pull the trigger.

D) 9mm ammo is the cheapest .45 is a lot more expensive.

I own both a Sig p220 and a XD45 and I love both of them equally. I had the XD first though, I don't know how I would feel about it if i had the sig first.

[DDS]

Desert Eagle .50 /Thread

[wolfdogs]

^^^ Scurvy brings up a good point here... if your primary use will be range...then 9mm will save you more moola.... but if self defense is the key...then no question, the .45. heck..9mm will glance off a slopped windshield! the stopping power of the .45 is a warm and fuzzy feeling.. even the .40 does not come that close to it... weigh your priorities.

hey Scurv..thought about you today, stopped at Gander Mountain in F-burg to pick up some gun cleaning patches and Breakfree.... they had a couple of nice Sig's in the case...some dude was shopping and I heard the sale's guy telling him how much better the Sig was than the HK.... LOL

[wolfdogs]

Desert Eagle .50 /Thread

overated. too heavy, hard to be accurate with, sloppy patterns.

if you cant hit what you shoot...the size of the bullet aint chit.

[Scurvy]

hey Scurv..thought about you today, stopped at Gander Mountain in F-burg to pick up some gun cleaning patches and Breakfree.... they had a couple of nice Sig's in the case...some dude was shopping and I heard the sale's guy telling him how much better the Sig was than the HK.... LOL

I like my USP and my Sig but If I had to choose I would take my 220 over my usp any day of the week.

I will probably sell my usp one day, I can't really see selling my 220. I bought the USP so I could say I owned one and because I've wanted to own a HK since I got into handguns. My sig on the other hand I own because it is a fine piece of craftsmanship and ergonomics. I like to think of the 220 as a Next-Gen 1911

[jonfor]

i like a 1911.

anyone know anyone that makes a good stainless compact other than kimber?

[Scurvy]

i like a 1911.

anyone know anyone that makes a good stainless compact other than kimber?

Springfield EMP

http://lundestudio.com/wallpaper/emp-ldhl-left-full-hi.jpg

[wolfdogs]

i like a 1911.

anyone know anyone that makes a good stainless compact other than kimber?

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=24

[wolfdogs]

Springfield EMP

http://lundestudio.com/wallpaper/emp-ldhl-left-full-hi.jpg

LOL..i was getting the link when you posted. gr8 minds think alike...

[T-FATTY]

If i were you i would find a gun shop that carries the S&W MP, it has grip inserts that you can pick the one that feels best to you personaly. I think they are in the same price ballpark with the XD.

+1
S&W MP40c nice gun, sure there are nicer more expensive guns out there.

[asaberan]

If i were you i would find a gun shop that carries the S&W MP, it has grip inserts that you can pick the one that feels best to you personaly. I think they are in the same price ballpark with the XD.

Thanks for the info. The shop I went to did have that gun but I don't even think I looked at it because I haven't heard much about the S&W's.

A friend of mine has a S&W40 and I love it! Here's a vid os me taking it for a "test drive".

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g19/germandlola/ th_ShootingRange002.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g19/germandlola/ ?action=view&current=ShootingRange002.flv)

Great video, thanks. That gives me a good idea of the "kick" of a 40.
a s&w 9mm does the job for me, but i bought my grandpa a s&w.38 special and he loves it, mainly because it was he carried when he worked for the corrections department

Thanks.

that "safety" on the back of the xd40 is the same type safety used on 911's now... its a good thing to have, esp. with the firing set up of the SA XD and like weapons. A little hand could reach out, pull the trig and the gun would discharge with out it...

have you considered a premium 1911? Kimbers, Brown, Wilson Combat, are assembled by gun smiths, quality control checks with every piece... where as "assembly line" guns don't get that.. and faults in manufacturing are a hassle to get fixed...

I know it is a good thing to have and I wasn't sure how much I liked the Sig not having it, but it just didn't feel right for some reason. Maybe it was just the feel of the grip that made me think that.

I haven't considered a 1911, I just don't really want one of those as my first handgun. It would be a great 3rd or 4th though.

The store I went to had Kimbers, but they were even more than the Sigs so I didn't even ask to see one, but man they were nice.
A) you can get a base sig for in the 700-800 range. You can buy a factory refurbished sig p220 (police turn in) for the same price as an XD

B) you live in a very gun unfriendly state so make sure you follow all the laws.

C) sig mosquito is a .22lr which is no good for self defense unless you stick it in the guys eye socket before you pull the trigger.

D) 9mm ammo is the cheapest .45 is a lot more expensive.

I own both a Sig p220 and a XD45 and I love both of them equally. I had the XD first though, I don't know how I would feel about it if i had the sig first.

A) Have any links for that?

B) I know, fucking stupid state.

C) Thanks, that is probably off the list. Might be a fun gun to play around with though.

D) I don't know that I care about that much, I mean if I shoot a couple hundred rounds a year, will I really save that much?

Thanks, that is interesting. It seems that many people have a Sig and an XD and seem to say they like each for different reasons.

Desert Eagle .50 /Thread

Thanks for the suggestion, they had one of those in the case but I didn't think I needed the "hand cannon."

^^^ Scurvy brings up a good point here... if your primary use will be range...then 9mm will save you more moola.... but if self defense is the key...then no question, the .45. heck..9mm will glance off a slopped windshield! the stopping power of the .45 is a warm and fuzzy feeling.. even the .40 does not come that close to it... weigh your priorities.



Is there really that much difference in the prices? What are we talking here? $50/box versus $5?

Very interesting about the 9mm and windshield. To your point about the Desert Eagle, wouldn't the same apply here? If I can't hit it, what good is big ammo? I'd like to be accurate with it otherwise there is no point. I'd like to know I can get >1 shot off and still remain relatively accurate.

[The Big D]

overated. too heavy, hard to be accurate with, sloppy patterns.

if you cant hit what you shoot...the size of the bullet aint chit.

i had a desert eagle and it is exactly like what you say, the only reason i bought it was because i bought it from a guy who was a bout to pawn it and i got a deal for 300 cash. then a dew years later sold it for 650 so i can' complain

[wolfdogs]

Thanks for the info. The shop I went to did have that gun but I don't even think I looked at it because I haven't heard much about the S&W's.



Great video, thanks. That gives me a good idea of the "kick" of a 40.


Thanks.



I know it is a good thing to have and I wasn't sure how much I liked the Sig not having it, but it just didn't feel right for some reason. Maybe it was just the feel of the grip that made me think that.

I haven't considered a 1911, I just don't really want one of those as my first handgun. It would be a great 3rd or 4th though.

The store I went to had Kimbers, but they were even more than the Sigs so I didn't even ask to see one, but man they were nice.


A) Have any links for that?

B) I know, fliping stupid state.

C) Thanks, that is probably off the list. Might be a fun gun to play around with though.

D) I don't know that I care about that much, I mean if I shoot a couple hundred rounds a year, will I really save that much?

Thanks, that is interesting. It seems that many people have a Sig and an XD and seem to say they like each for different reasons.



Thanks for the suggestion, they had one of those in the case but I didn't think I needed the "hand cannon."



Is there really that much difference in the prices? What are we talking here? $50/box versus $5?

Very interesting about the 9mm and windshield. To your point about the Desert Eagle, wouldn't the same apply here? If I can't hit it, what good is big ammo? I'd like to be accurate with it otherwise there is no point. I'd like to know I can get >1 shot off and still remain relatively accurate.

shooting takes practice... with any caliber from .380 to .45 and practice with a particular model handgun, you can become accurate, learn double tap. one of my 1911 .45's has a 3 inch barrel... when people see it, they say "how can you get off a second shot after the recoil.."?... the recoil is minimal for its size, and manufacturing is so fine tuned that I can make as good a pattern if not better with it than my SA XD .45 with a 4" barrel. you won't have a problem being accurate with a .45. stop and think about how many .45's have been placed in the hands of folks for combat......... ;)

one thing to remember as well is: if you hit a charging assailant in the shoulder at 10 feet....with a 9mm...you may not get off a second shot..you will with a .45..it will knock most people backwards for a second....

http://www.renokeo.com/kimber1.jpg

[oodn-oodn]

Lets talk about calibers...
- 45ACP is the classic people stopper. Big slow bullet that generally expends all of its energy in the bad guy. Pretty easy to shoot since most 45s are at least moderately substantial handguns.
- 9MM became a popular alternative because you could pack a lot more bullets in a handgrip-sized magazine than a 45. Stopping power has been the biggest complaint, with folks saying you need all those extra bullets. Easy to shoot, & a 9MM can be designed smaller than the larger calibers.
- 40 cal is the popular in-between caliber, with stopping power approaching a 45, yet the magazine can hold more bullets. Ammo price is reasonable since it's a common bullet. Probably won't go wrong with this caliber.
- 10MM is essentially a "40 cal magnum", but it's not as popular as the others so ammo will cost a bit more. I don't have a 10MM but am intrigued by these (but I really don't need yet another caliber handgun).

Now let's talk about gun sizes.
- The mid size & large frame Glocks, Sigs, XDs, S&Ws, Rugers, etc are fine guns, marvelous tools, droolworthy, etc. BUT, they're substantial pieces & not what I consider easy to carry. They're fine for LEO or military who have to & are expected to carry, but they can be pretty cumbersome for casual civilian carry. No big deal if you don't intend to carry, they're fine in the house or car (provided that's legal), & great at the range.
- Small frames & subcompacts are much more carryable (sp?), but big calibers in little guns can be unpleasant to shoot. My current carryable piece is a Keltec P3AT 380 cal. It's sort of cheesy looking, mean to shoot, "girly" caliber, & not long range accurate, BUT, it disappears in a jean pocket with a pocket holster. Therefore I'm more inclined to casually carry it. Remember, the best gun in the world is no good if you don't have it when you need it.

If you're going to carry, stay legal.
OK that's my spin. Lets hear some other opinions.

[wolfdogs]

Lets talk about calibers...
- 45ACP is the classic people stopper. Big slow bullet that generally expends all of its energy in the bad guy. Pretty easy to shoot since most 45s are at least moderately substantial handguns.
- 9MM became a popular alternative because you could pack a lot more bullets in a handgrip-sized magazine than a 45. Stopping power has been the biggest complaint, with folks saying you need all those extra bullets. Easy to shoot, & a 9MM can be designed smaller than the larger calibers.
- 40 cal is the popular in-between caliber, with stopping power approaching a 45, yet the magazine can hold more bullets. Ammo price is reasonable since it's a common bullet. Probably won't go wrong with this caliber.
- 10MM is essentially a "40 cal magnum", but it's not as popular as the others so ammo will cost a bit more. I don't have a 10MM but am intrigued by these (but I really don't need yet another caliber handgun).

Now let's talk about gun sizes.
- The mid size & large frame Glocks, Sigs, XDs, S&Ws, Rugers, etc are fine guns, marvelous tools, droolworthy, etc. BUT, they're substantial pieces & not what I consider easy to carry. They're fine for LEO or military who have to & are expected to carry, but they can be pretty cumbersome for casual civilian carry. No big deal if you don't intend to carry, they're fine in the house or car (provided that's legal), & great at the range.
- Small frames & subcompacts are much more carryable (sp?), but big calibers in little guns can be unpleasant to shoot. My current carryable piece is a Keltec P3AT 380 cal. It's sort of cheesy looking, mean to shoot, "girly" caliber, & not long range accurate, BUT, it disappears in a jean pocket with a pocket holster. Therefore I'm more inclined to casually carry it. Remember, the best gun in the world is no good if you don't have it when you need it.

If you're going to carry, stay legal.
OK that's my spin. Lets hear some other opinions.
my alternate carry ...and the most carried, is a sweet little Colt Mustang II.....Govt model slide. i cant take a nats butt off at 10 feet..... ;) and i put a "knife pants clip" on it and can conceal it and go to a swimming pool ;)

i think "carry" depends on what you need, where you are going and what you are doing....... the "environment" dictates the caliber to me.

[Scurvy]

A) Have any links for that?


Is there really that much difference in the prices? What are we talking here? $50/box versus $5?


No links, I can only tell you what I paid for mine. 780 after tax. The refurbs are easy to get at the gun show for 575 + tax.

There is about a $5 a box difference between 9mm and .45

Doesn't sound like much but when you are shooting 200rds (4boxes) every time. That's 20 bucks a trip to the range. That's a nice dinner.

At minimum you're going to shoot 100rds per trip

[asaberan]

shooting takes practice... with any caliber from .380 to .45 and practice with a particular model handgun, you can become accurate, learn double tap. one of my 1911 .45's has a 3 inch barrel... when people see it, they say "how can you get off a second shot after the recoil.."?... the recoil is minimal for its size, and manufacturing is so fine tuned that I can make as good a pattern if not better with it than my SA XD .45 with a 4" barrel. you won't have a problem being accurate with a .45. stop and think about how many .45's have been placed in the hands of folks for combat......... ;)

one thing to remember as well is: if you hit a charging assailant in the shoulder at 10 feet....with a 9mm...you may not get off a second shot..you will with a .45..it will knock most people backwards for a second....

http://www.renokeo.com/kimber1.jpg

Great info and a very interesting way to look at things.

I think the Kimbers are more than I'm willing to spend for my first gun. I believe there was one in the case that was $1399, quite a bit more than I want to spend. There was a smaller one as well that look similar to the one in your picture, and I believe it was around $900 if I am not mistaken. Which model is that picture of? I checked their site, but it said they have over 70 models and don't seem to show them. Also, do you buy them at a local store or online?

Lets talk about calibers...
- 45ACP is the classic people stopper. Big slow bullet that generally expends all of its energy in the bad guy. Pretty easy to shoot since most 45s are at least moderately substantial handguns.
- 9MM became a popular alternative because you could pack a lot more bullets in a handgrip-sized magazine than a 45. Stopping power has been the biggest complaint, with folks saying you need all those extra bullets. Easy to shoot, & a 9MM can be designed smaller than the larger calibers.
- 40 cal is the popular in-between caliber, with stopping power approaching a 45, yet the magazine can hold more bullets. Ammo price is reasonable since it's a common bullet. Probably won't go wrong with this caliber.
- 10MM is essentially a "40 cal magnum", but it's not as popular as the others so ammo will cost a bit more. I don't have a 10MM but am intrigued by these (but I really don't need yet another caliber handgun).

Now let's talk about gun sizes.
- The mid size & large frame Glocks, Sigs, XDs, S&Ws, Rugers, etc are fine guns, marvelous tools, droolworthy, etc. BUT, they're substantial pieces & not what I consider easy to carry. They're fine for LEO or military who have to & are expected to carry, but they can be pretty cumbersome for casual civilian carry. No big deal if you don't intend to carry, they're fine in the house or car (provided that's legal), & great at the range.
- Small frames & subcompacts are much more carryable (sp?), but big calibers in little guns can be unpleasant to shoot. My current carryable piece is a Keltec P3AT 380 cal. It's sort of cheesy looking, mean to shoot, "girly" caliber, & not long range accurate, BUT, it disappears in a jean pocket with a pocket holster. Therefore I'm more inclined to casually carry it. Remember, the best gun in the world is no good if you don't have it when you need it.

If you're going to carry, stay legal.
OK that's my spin. Lets hear some other opinions.

Great info, thanks.

Unfortunately my tree-hugger state doesn't allow me to carry, which is quite surprising given the amount of hunters and "good old boys" there are, at least in my area.

[Scurvy]

my alternate carry ...and the most carried, is a sweet little Colt Mustang II.....Govt model slide. i cant take a nats butt off at 10 feet..... ;) and i put a "knife pants clip" on it and can conceal it and go to a swimming pool ;)

i think "carry" depends on what you need, where you are going and what you are doing....... the "environment" dictates the caliber to me.

A good holster I would say is MORE important than actual gun size when it comes to concealing. A good holster can conceal a medium/large frame very well and a shitty holster will print even t he smallest pistol.

Now you see it....

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa27/Scurvy092/ HK%20usp%2045c/02-11-08_2156.jpg

Now you don't...

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa27/Scurvy092/ HK%20usp%2045c/02-11-08_2348.jpg

[asaberan]

No links, I can only tell you what I paid for mine. 780 after tax. The refurbs are easy to get at the gun show for 575 + tax.

There is about a $5 a box difference between 9mm and .45

Doesn't sound like much but when you are shooting 200rds (4boxes) every time. That's 20 bucks a trip to the range. That's a nice dinner.

At minimum you're going to shoot 100rds per trip

Gotcha. You bought yours online or at a gunshow?

Should I buy a refurb? Seems to me like it would be best to buy a new one unless it was very seldomly used, but how would you know for sure?

[Scurvy]

Gotcha. You bought yours online or at a gunshow?

Should I buy a refurb? Seems to me like it would be best to buy a new one unless it was very seldom used, but how would you know for sure?

I bought mine from a sig dealer here in Va.

The refurb/new thing is up to you. The refurbs don't have rails on them FYI and the refurbs are mainly sig P220s which are .45acp.

I'd rather have a factory refurb than a used.

[oodn-oodn]

"Unfortunately my tree-hugger state doesn't allow me to carry, which is quite surprising given the amount of hunters and "good old boys" there are, at least in my area."

Well if you can't carry then go for the showy accurate big bore. 45, 44 Mag, one of those monster 50 cals, or something like that. When I go shooting with my pals, the big bores always get the most attention, & they bust cement blocks & old motorcycles so much better than the weenie 40s & 357s.

[The Big D]

"Unfortunately my tree-hugger state doesn't allow me to carry, which is quite surprising given the amount of hunters and "good old boys" there are, at least in my area."

Well if you can't carry then go for the showy accurate big bore. 45, 44 Mag, one of those monster 50 cals, or something like that. When I go shooting with my pals, the big bores always get the most attention, & they bust cement blocks & old motorcycles so much better than the weenie 40s & 357s.


in ga you can get a cwp fairly easy and you can still keep it in the car with you as long it it visable to a police officer

[oodn-oodn]

in ga you can get a cwp fairly easy and you can still keep it in the car with you as long it it visable to a police officer

Many years ago I got pulled over with a (legal) gun in my glove box. Mr officer asked for my licence & registration. That stuff's in the glove box of course. I told the officer there is a gun in the glove box, & he said "I didn't ask to see your gun, I want to see your licence and registration".

Kind of made me proud to be an American.

[Bandit]

Since this is your first gun, and you seem to be a fairly novice shooter, I'd suggest a 9mm for the caliber.

Is .45ACP a great round? Sure is, but you may not enjoy the battery, or the cost associated with that caliber. At least not for your first gun. Every man should own a .45, no way around it... but you have plenty of time to work up to that.

So far you've done the right thing... put a lot of pistols in your hand and crossed some off your list. Glocks are great, but if it doesn't fit your paw, on to the next on the list. Good move.

I highly suggest putting an HK P30 in your hand. As it sits, it will most likely melt into your palm, but it does come with 3 sets of backstraps and 3 sets of side panels so you can totally custom fit it to your hand. Scary-accurate, and HK-reliable so you know you have one of the best.... as long as it fits you.

The XD's are pretty nice, I just bought an XD9 SC and like it. Is it in any way comparable to my HK's? No, but still darn nice. It hammers a bit more due to the size, which leads me to my next point...

Size does matter for a few reasons. Generally the smaller the gun, the less accurate it MIGHT be, and the more you will feel the recoil. Shoot a full size Glock 17, then a 26 and you'll see that even though they are identical except in size... the shooting is very, very different. The longer the slide, the longer the sight radius, therefore it has the potential to be more accurate.

I say "potential to be" because I have seen some ridiculously accurate subcompacts, and some grossly inaccurate full sized guns.

Conceal-ability is up to your holster and style of carry. Of course a 4" barrel may protrude from a short coat when bending over much more easily than a 2.75" barrel, but you get what I mean.

9mm is also far cheaper to shoot than the 40's and up. I like 40, but don't love it. It is a torquey round that twists the gun a bit as it shoots from a small barrel. It also hammers you a little bit while the 9mm is just a little snappy.

You'll see caliber wars raging on many forums, but the simple truth is that in the right load a 9mm can be devastating. If you want the best stopping power you'd be carrying a .357 Magnum revolver or a giant 10mm pistol, but those may not be practical and the 9mm does a fine job. Get the right round, and you're just fine.

Just fondle a few, rent some if you can, and just enjoy it. I suggest the HK P30 as the top, but the CZ75 is great for a comfy fit as well. I'm not a fan of the S&W M&P quality, but they are quite popular. I would NOT suggest a 1911 style gun to ANYONE who is a novice, or for a first gun.

[06 DREAM GOAT]

Try Out A Sig Model #232, It Is A .380 , It`s My Personal Favorite For A Carry Piece. Hi Quality And Excellent Accuracy. They Make A Variety Of Ammo For It Also.
Second Favorite Is A Sig 245. Same Shooting Qualities As The 220 Model With A Shorter Grip. Very Easy To Conceal With A Lot Of Stopping Power.. Good Luck On Your Purchase, Their Are A Lot Of Deals Out There Right Now With The Ecomomy Sucking As Bad As It Does..
Dave P...

[MrYenko]

Big +1 on being careful in your state. MD is not known for respecting the 2nd amendment.

For defense purposes, .45, all the way. However, it's expensive to shoot. The recoil comments are essentially meaningless, as everyone senses recoil differently. The best advice I can give is to train. ALOT. Get a 2nd handgun (or a conversion kit, if availiable) in 9mm or .22lr to do the bulk of your practice with, but don;t shy from a larger caliber because of recoil. Shy from it cause its flipping expensive to practice with.

A truly great marksman isn't concerned with recoil, except in that he needs to control the weapon to reaquire the target for follow up shots. If the recoil causes pain or fear, you haven't practiced with it enough yet. Buy more ammo. :drink:

[asaberan]

Thank you for all the suggestions.

It sounds like no one buys online and I should keep shopping at a store or a gun show? I buy everything online, but this seems like a huge pain in the ass.

[oodn-oodn]

Shop & research online all you want, but buy at a gun store or show. You pretty much can't get a gun shipped to you unless you have a Federal Firearms License (FFL), & an FFL isn't really viable for a non-dealer anymore.

[wolfdogs]

A good holster I would say is MORE important than actual gun size when it comes to concealing. A good holster can conceal a medium/large frame very well and a shitty holster will print even t he smallest pistol.

Now you see it....

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa27/Scurvy092/ HK%20usp%2045c/02-11-08_2156.jpg

Now you don't...

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa27/Scurvy092/ HK%20usp%2045c/02-11-08_2348.jpg

holsters? you are preaching to the choir here...LOL

Im a Galco nut.

http://www.renokeo.com/handguns4.jpg

[wolfdogs]

this is my most concealable pistol. The little Colt .380 I mentioned above, i also have a below the waist elastic holster for it... but with the "clip" on it... i can stash it just about anywhere on me...

its a Mustang II slide mounted on the Colt Govt. model Mustang frame, giving me 2 more rounds in the clip... hee hee i made a trade deal with a guy who wanted my frame on the Mustang II and he owned the Govt. model, which has a slightly longer barrel. This is one sweet little pup though.... something to consider would be the .380 since you are starting out and you dont have to spend major bucks for one.

the grip is aftermarket..... ;)

http://www.renokeo.com/colt.jpg

[jonfor]

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k271/jonfor_2006/ zombie2.jpg

[dragman]

I love my Glock 40. I will never again shoot my girl friends tarus PT millenium 40. the 3 stitches in my hand insure that.

[machine73]

Bullet design and shot placement are far more important than calibre. Don't even sweat that at this point. Go to an indoor handgun range that allows you to rent handguns. Take a while figuring out what you like. I'd even suggest buying a mid-range .22 and spend a large amount of time plinking before taking the plunge into serious combat style handguns. You can shoot rimfire rounds all day for next to nothing.

[bursty]

GLOCK 19

/thread

[DadeCounty]

GLOCK 19

/thread



I keep coming back to the "stopping power" issue in my head.... If I'm gonna get one, it might as well be able to take somebody out if I need it to, right?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shooto ut

[DadeCounty]

I love my Glock 40. I will never again shoot my girl friends tarus PT millenium 40. the 3 stitches in my hand insure that.

what the hell is a glock 40? do you mean a Glock 22, 23, 27, or 35? do you mean a .40 cal glock? whenever i hear someone refer to a glock like that it makes me think of this guy...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-Qdx6vky0&feature=related



"I'm the only one in this room professional enough, that i know of, to carry a glock 40." :bomb:

[TLEm1911a1]

GLOCK 19

/thread

ok. i own a glock 19. imo it is the glock of all glocks. small enough to carry without a problem and chambered in the 9mm round the glock was originally made to fire. mine has had a couple failures but is still a great handgun.

i also own an xd40 service (before the new melonite finish) if you get an xd, make damn sure it has the new melonite finish. they all come with it now, but im sure there are some old ones still floating around that dont. mine will develop surface rust if left in a cold place overnight at times. this is the only gun ive ever owned that has never had a malfunction that wasnt my fault (thumbs forward 1911 grip doesnt work well in my experience with the xd, it interferes with the slide release)

now ive owned a total of 4 1911's. ive had 2 springfields, one was a milspec and the other the GI model. both fullsize. i also own 2 kimbers, one custom II black and a tle/rl II stainless. even the springfields, being a low end 1911, were great to shoot and grouped fairly decently. also had very little trouble with malfunctions with these. the kimbers on the other hand, its hard to explain. the kimber owners in this thread knows what im talking about. you just know you are shooting a quality weapon when shooting a kimber (or any other of the 1911 manufacturers wolfdogs listed)

the GI 1911 was my first handgun. i have since fallen in love and will not settle for less sitting on my hip. i have since sold the two springfields. i figured i didnt need them if i had 2 kimbers. they were all fullsize also, and i have no problem toting the big heavy 1911 all day on my hip.

[Enginerd]

speaking of which, look what I was able to do today w/my FN 5.7 (from ~20 yds):

http://ls1gto.com/forums/attachment.php?attachment id=77356&stc=1&d=1203833456

Yes, it's on my fridge :)

No, I'm not that good of a shot...just a freak thing that I thought was kinda cool

[Bandit]

Sorry man, not to give you crap, but if my targets ever looked that bad, I don't think I could post 'em.

[Enginerd]

Not to give you crap, your approval doesn't do much for me anyway.

Besides, I've put less maybe ~800 rds through a handgun in my entire life...500 or so within the last three weeks (in a gun a just bought), so I'm still improving.

And as I said, I wasn't saying I was a good shot, just that the dead-on-balls center shot was pretty cool for me.

But I can understand your need to chime in w/something like that considering the all orifice gang-rape we've all seen you take the last few weeks.

The brand-loyalist are out in full force...watch your cornhole bud. :gr_jest:

[machine73]

Off hand at 20 yards with a production pistol... eh... most joe's would be all over the target as well. At least you own a gun and are shooting it. That's a step ahead of most Americans.

[unsigned]

Enginerd: 20 yards? You are doing fine. Keep shooting and you will tighten it up, but no stress... which brings me to...

Wolfdogs: WTF is the clip on the Mustang man? That made me cry a little. :( Such a nice gun to mount that too.

[thedak]

Glock 39

It is my personal and back up.

Small, easy to grip, and it's a 45

[Enginerd]

Off hand at 20 yards with a production pistol... eh... most joe's would be all over the target as well. At least you own a gun and are shooting it. That's a step ahead of most Americans.

Enginerd: 20 yards? You are doing fine. Keep shooting and you will tighten it up, but no stress... which brings me to...


Thank ya, thank ya.

I have a lot to learn...perhaps scary, but I'm at least good enough to qualify for Nevada CCW permit. Grew up w/rifles and scatterguns...the handguns never left the house, they were last line of defense tools...lived in drawers...

[majette]

best value on the market is the Steyr M9-A1/M40-A1. they are available through CDNN and Davidson's for about 350.00. you will need to find a dealer that will do the transfer from the wholesaler to you, usually costs about 30-50 bucks. i have owned glocks, sigs, h&k's, custom 1911's, smiths, various other handguns and i have shot just about 95% of what's on the market. for me, the steyr m9-a1 has been the best all-around handgun. here is 5 shots at 7 yds, firing as quick as i reacquired the target. 10 ring flyer was called:

http://www.candidate08.org/images/m9a1range.jpg

carry setup:

http://www.candidate08.org/images/gim9x2.jpg

the grip design lessens the recoil torque, it pushes straight back into the hand. they were designed by a former glock engineer, he presented his design and glock did not want to change their line, so he went down the road to steyr. it also was engineered as a .40 cal first to withstand the pressure and the chamber is fully supported (do a search for glock and unsupported chamber). size of the m series is a little bigger than a glock 19. once the stock at cdnn and davidsons has sold through the next variations will come in at a much higher price. there is a very active community at www.steyrclub.com.

[Scurvy]

I've seen it at the gun shows and was always intrigued but hesitated because I've never heard anything about it

[majette]

I've seen it at the gun shows and was always intrigued but hesitated because I've never heard anything about it

steyr has been making quality firearms for almost as long as there have been firearms. you should check one out at the next chantilly or dale city gun show, or, if you travel some, the next richmond show. there are a few steyrclub.com members in NOVA, i am sure you cn seek them out and get some info.

[87LC2]

HK USP compact 9mm = home
Kahr P9 9mm = carry
I have a 1911 commanders model .45 and many others.:sneaky:

The 9 mm is the best all around caliber; cheap, easy to shoot, high capacity and with the proper bullet selection stops just as good as a .45 or .357.
It's been proven over and over, bullet selection and placement always beats caliber.
Can't stop what you can't hit.
:-punch:

Handgun Stopping Power:The Definitive Study

By Evan P. Marshall
, Edwin J. Sanow
Published 1992
Paladin Press

Forensic ballistics

240 pages

Dramatic accounts of the results of handgun rounds fired into criminals by cops, storeowners and a host of others are the heart and soul of this controversial book. The author's goal is to provide accurate wound ballistics and ammo information that police officers and civilians can use to survive lethal confrontations.The use of results from actual shooting incidents -- gathered from such sources as police reports, autopsies and victim statements -- sets this book apart from all others. By combining these case studies of actual shootings with scientifically controlled test firings into 10-percent ordnance gelatin, the authors have developed what may be the definitive methodology for predicting the stopping power of any handgun load.

[Jizz]

I see you are in Maryland. Go to Select Fire gun range/shop, It is by Ft. Meade, rent as many guns as you can afford and decide which one you like. Ask them if you rent there guns will they cut you a deal if you buy a new one from them.

I have the Sig Mosquito it is a very nice gun, ammo is cheap and it is easy to break down and clean. But if I where you I would go 40S&W or higher. Go check out a Beretta PX4 Storm.

[jonfor]

Handgun Stopping Power:The Definitive Study

By Evan P. Marshall
, Edwin J. Sanow
Published 1992
Paladin Press

Forensic ballistics

240 pages


if ording that book online can't get you onto a FBI or homeland security watch list, i don't know what will.

i guess maybe ording it with: commercial flying for dummies part 1 and home-depot bomb making recipets.

[Scurvy]

steyr has been making quality firearms for almost as long as there have been firearms. you should check one out at the next chantilly or dale city gun show, or, if you travel some, the next richmond show. there are a few steyrclub.com members in NOVA, i am sure you cn seek them out and get some info.

Oh I'm well aware of Steyr's long standing rifle history with the Scout and the AUG. I've also read up on the pistol with what little info is out there. What I meant was, you don't go around hearing everyone telling people how great they are. It's not on the cover of every gun magazine like a XD, Glock or 1911.

[Bandit]

Not to give you crap, your approval doesn't do much for me anyway.

Besides, I've put less maybe ~800 rds through a handgun in my entire life...500 or so within the last three weeks (in a gun a just bought), so I'm still improving.

And as I said, I wasn't saying I was a good shot, just that the dead-on-balls center shot was pretty cool for me.

But I can understand your need to chime in w/something like that considering the all orifice gang-rape we've all seen you take the last few weeks.

The brand-loyalist are out in full force...watch your cornhole bud. :gr_jest:


I'm sorry man, genuinely... I really wasn't trying to be an ass.

As you shoot more, i suggest 9to anyone) to get some good training and identify the things that need to change such as trigger control and the like. Soon, with practice, you'll be shooting consistent groups right where you want them to go.

But FWIW, just enjoy the hobby.

[nesikachad]

Wilson Combat.

[ZUMin3K]

I'm very happy with my S&W M&P .40 (fullsize). GREAT ergonomics, sturdy, well built. I've only got 250 rouns through it so far, but 0 malfunctions. I prefer it to my GLOCK, but the GLOCK is a sub-compact, so kind of hard to compare directly. The GLOCK does have over 1,000 rounds with only 1 FTE, but that was out in the woods and without cleaning.
I'd fully recommend either.

[ZUMin3K]

By the way, the M&P was only $450 and S&W still has a $50 rebate and 2 free mags!

[asaberan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shooto ut

Great read, thanks for the link.

Thanks to everyone else who provided info as well. I think I need to wait for a gun show or rent some guns and see how I like them.

[nesikachad]

http://ls1gto.com/forums/attachment.php?attachment id=77356&stc=1&d=1203833456

Buddy, hate to bag on someone, but that's not a group. It's a "gathering."

By contrast. This is a Kurdish shop keeper by day, security guard by night. I trained him last week in Ankawa and this is his qualification target.

This was shot with an AK-47 left over from the Iran/Iraq war from 100/50/25 yards. All timed events with me berating him with Kurdish/Arabic obscenities because he doesn't follow instructions for shit. Little bugger can pull a trigger though.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u64/nesikachad/ IMG_0249.jpg

Stop looking at your target and pay more attention to aligning your sights. Stare down that front site post like it's a pair of boobies and your shot groups will improve. (get smaller)

Do this over and over and over again until you are just absolutely sick of doing it. Then your starting to get it. It's a push/pull arrangement with your hands. Lock your wrists. Don't squeeze the gun. Pull the front side of the grip and push the backside.

Align yourself so that you are naturally pointing at the target. Tactical stances from the movies are cool and all, but not one is really practical. Your hips should be square to the target.

Watch your sights as the pistol fires. This is your follow through and aids in acquiring the target for follow up shots.

Hold the pistol to your chest and thrust it forward. As you thrust forward acquire the sights and begin aligning them as you come to bear. Don't focus on speed. That'll come as you develop the muscle memory. When done shooting, reverse the procedure, pull the pistol back to your chest and get in the habit of scanning your periphery for the next threat. Then put on safe and holster

This is PSD 101.

I'm no pistol guru by any means, but I routinely shoot 197/200 or better on the Dept of State Requal course. I ace the rifle portion everytime I shoot it, 300/300. (At least three times a week.)

Practice, practice, practice

[Scurvy]

What's required in the Dept of State requal course? I'd like to give it a shot and see how i do

[speeddemon]

chad can we get some of those targets? those are awesome

[SICKS.OH]

good advise in here... can't really add anything but this....

TARGETS (http://joeq.dot5hosting.com/store/page2.html)

[Enginerd]

http://ls1gto.com/forums/attachment.php?attachment id=77356&stc=1&d=1203833456

Buddy, hate to bag on someone, but that's not a group. It's a "gathering."

By contrast. This is a Kurdish shop keeper by day, security guard by night. I trained him last week in Ankawa and this is his qualification target.

This was shot with an AK-47 left over from the Iran/Iraq war from 100/50/25 yards. All timed events with me berating him with Kurdish/Arabic obscenities because he doesn't follow instructions for shit. Little bugger can pull a trigger though.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u64/nesikachad/ IMG_0249.jpg

Stop looking at your target and pay more attention to aligning your sights. Stare down that front site post like it's a pair of boobies and your shot groups will improve. (get smaller)

Do this over and over and over again until you are just absolutely sick of doing it. Then your starting to get it. It's a push/pull arrangement with your hands. Lock your wrists. Don't squeeze the gun. Pull the front side of the grip and push the backside.

Align yourself so that you are naturally pointing at the target. Tactical stances from the movies are cool and all, but not one is really practical. Your hips should be square to the target.

Watch your sights as the pistol fires. This is your follow through and aids in acquiring the target for follow up shots.

Hold the pistol to your chest and thrust it forward. As you thrust forward acquire the sights and begin aligning them as you come to bear. Don't focus on speed. That'll come as you develop the muscle memory. When done shooting, reverse the procedure, pull the pistol back to your chest and get in the habit of scanning your periphery for the next threat. Then put on safe and holster

This is PSD 101.

I'm no pistol guru by any means, but I routinely shoot 197/200 or better on the Dept of State Requal course. I ace the rifle portion everytime I shoot it, 300/300. (At least three times a week.)

Practice, practice, practice

If you read my OP I wasn't claiming that it was a good group...just proud of the one lil fella dead on middle...

I am familiar w/grip, stance, and posture...your tips on following through are news to me though...I'm going out again Sat and will give your suggestions a whirl. Thanks for your help.

PS I might be able to take your shopkeeper...I'm on w/rifle or carbine...Then again no one has ever yelled obscenities at me while shooting though :)

Then again that AK is not the most accurate weapon ever made to say the least...so if you're ever in Vegas you can train me.

[GTPprix]

Get an MP5K with a shoulder rig, best carry gun EVAR ;)

[Bigdave]

All the guns mentioned have different feels and characteristics. You really need to find what feels comfortable to you and in your hand. In the picture provided I laid out a few of my favorites to look at some are practical some are not. The 2 SS ones are S&W .500 mags not practical. I have 1 glock and I don't really care for it. I own 2 Sig's a 1911 .45ACP & a 226 .40 their both excellent weapons. It's hard to go wrong with the XD's 2 pictured they shoot well and use a 1911 style safety I like very much since these lack a safety switch. The XD's offer a feature that appeals to Me also in the way of cambered round indicator and cocked indicator both visual and by feel for low lite situations. But I definitely think your on the right track by taking your time and shopping around.

77551

[asaberan]

All the guns mentioned have different feels and characteristics. You really need to find what feels comfortable to you and in your hand. In the picture provided I laid out a few of my favorites to look at some are practical some are not. The 2 SS ones are S&W .500 mags not practical. I have 1 glock and I don't really care for it. I own 2 Sig's a 1911 .45ACP & a 226 .40 their both excellent weapons. It's hard to go wrong with the XD's 2 pictured they shoot well and use a 1911 style safety I like very much since these lack a safety switch. The XD's offer a feature that appeals to Me also in the way of cambered round indicator and cocked indicator both visual and by feel for low lite situations. But I definitely think your on the right track by taking your time and shopping around.

77551

Thanks for the picture. What is a "1911 style safety?"

What feels best is the thousand dollar Sig :banghead:.

[GTPprix]

Thanks for the picture. What is a "1911 style safety?"

What feels best is the thousand dollar Sig :banghead:.

Then buy it, thats how I got hooked on HK's I went in for a glock 19 and walked out with a USPC that was twice the price.

[87LC2]

Get an MP5K with a shoulder rig, best carry gun EVAR ;)
I only have the HK SP89, I don't have a class III for the MP5K.:(

[GTPprix]

Then use the SP89 with the carry rig, same rig anyhow LOL Which reminds me I need to clean mine LOL

[Scurvy]

Thanks for the picture. What is a "1911 style safety?"


grip safety

[87LC2]

Then use the SP89 with the carry rig, same rig anyhow LOL Which reminds me I need to clean mine LOL

Clean your what?
SP89,
MP5K,
or carry rig?
;)
LOL

[Trigger5150]

As you can see, everyone has opinions on what style and caliber gun they like. Personally, my carry gun is a Glock 26 loaded with Hydra-Shoks. For home defense, I still believe there isn't anything better than a good old fashioned 12 gauge. If you get a pump action, the sound of the action alone will stop most people dead in their tracks and then you won't have to worry about messing up the paint or carpet.

As for an FFL transfer, most gun shops will do it for about $20. They just need to fill out some forms and send it to the dealer on the other end. My buddy runs a gun shop outside of Nashville and does a lot of transfers. From what I understand, it's a pretty easy process as long as you've got your ducks in a row. Just make sure everyone is reputable.

[Bigdave]

I only have the HK SP89, I don't have a class III for the MP5K.:(

This one is a fun alternative for you. It's classified as a hand gun believe it or not I just cantfind the right CC holster for it.
ATTACH]77598[/ATTACH]

[Trigger5150]

This one is a fun alternative for you. It's classified as a hand gun believe it or not I just cantfind the right CC holster for it.
ATTACH]77598[/ATTACH]

My buddy has one of those in his shop. He says a guy bought one from him and had a shoulder holster made for it and carries it.

[nesikachad]

DOS PSD Qualification:

Rifle, M-4 Carbine. Load 3 magazines @ 20 rounds each

Stage 1:
15 shots prone, unsupported at 100 yards in 65 seconds. Begin from standing position

Stage 2:
5 shots kneeling, unsupported at 100 yards, then a magazine change and transition to prone and shoot 5 more rounds. 55 seconds

Stage 3:
10 shots kneeling, unsupported at 50 yards.

Stage 4:
5 shots standing unsupported, magazine change, 5 shots kneeling unsupported at 25 yards 20 seconds

Stage 5:
10 shots standing unsupported, magazine change, 25 seconds, 25 yards

Stage 6:

5 shots standing unsupported, 15 yards.


60 shots total for a possible score of 300.

My "timed" record thus far is a 292/300 done in 2:15 for the entire course. (Firing the course of fire as fast as I can and running to each stage)

The targets are called "Izzy" targets. I don't know where to get them in the states. Scoring rings are 5,4,0

If you are shooting an M-4 type rifle with standard iron sights, I advise this procedure:

Set up a target (about the size of a postage stamp) at 25 yards.

Load a magazine with 12 rounds.

Rotate your front sight post so that it's base is flush with the front sight assembly. Rotate the rear elevation wheel so that the rear sight is as low as it can go, then go up two clicks.

Zero your windage by aligning the veneer scale on the rear sight aperture and rear sight base. This is known as MZ or "mechanical zero."

Now, hold center mass on your postage stamp and fire 3 well aimed shots at 25 yards.

Chances are you'll hit low. About 6 or 7 inches. Rotate the front sight post clockwise about 6 or 7 "clicks" and then shoot again.

Clockwise on the front sight raises the impact of the bullet. One "click" is a 1.25MOA (minute of angle) change. It's going to move you an inch and a quarter at 100 yards. It'll move you 2.5 inches at 200 and so on.

Rear sights are half minute of angle clicks. One click of windage is 1/2 inch at 100 yards, the rear elevation is the same.

Clockwise rotation of the windage knob moves the strike of the round to the right.

Clockwise rotation of the elevation wheel moves the strike of the round up.

You should be using ammunition with a bullet weight and velocity very close to M855 NATO ball (62 grain bullet@3100fps)

Your goal is to pile your group into the postage stamp. This rifle is very capable of cloverleaf groups at 25 yards, so if its not doing it, its YOU doing something wrong.

Continue shooting 3 shot groups and adjusting until your group is in the postage stamp where you are aiming. 12 rounds means you got four chances to get this right. If you take more than that, sell your gun and buy a can of bear mace instead.

Once you adjust your front sight and rear windage to where you are hitting this postage stamp size target, your rifle is now considered to be "BZO'd" or Battle sight Zero'd. This means you can engage a man sized target from point blank to 300 meters without making an elevation change.

At 100 yards the bullet will strike 3.9" above line of sight. Aim at the belly and you blast the heart out of the chest.

At 200 yards the bullet will be almost at its peak trajectory, it'll be 5" above the line of sight.

at 300 its on its way back down and will strike at the line of sight.

So, for the DOS course of fire your best bet is to hold on the AK that "Izzy" is holding. This will pile the shot group into the meat of the 5 ring, right in the vitals.

as you move closer, raise your aiming point slightly. The bullet is flying much flatter now. You don't need to hold below nearly so much. At 15 yards you should be aiming right at the chest.

Sorry for getting off track. Once you get good at it, mix it up. Stagger your magazine loads so you get used to sudden magazine changes. Shoot the whole course standing once. (298 is my personal best) For true combat shooting, load your last two/three rounds with tracers so you know your getting ready to reload. Check with your range first though, they might get pissy about this.

Have fun. . .

285 and above earns you "Designated Marksman" pay increase by the way. Extra $500 bucks a month. Woo Hoo

240 is a the minimum qualifying score.

[87LC2]

I assume setting zero is the same for a full size AR15.
I've seen some front sights with 4 detent notches and some with 5 notches, any differences?

[87LC2]

This one is a fun alternative for you. It's classified as a hand gun believe it or not I just cantfind the right CC holster for it.
ATTACH]77598[/ATTACH]
Nice!

Make your own carry system.
:secret:

[nesikachad]

Five is the older version from the A1. It's for yards. The 4 clicker is meters.

Five ticks are also round posts if I recall correctly. That wouldn't work on a square post.

As far as procedure, yes it should be the same. Now, keep in mind. This applies to COLT MIL Spec M-16A2's and M-4's.

The thread pitch on the rear sight my be a bit different due to the difference in sight radius. I can't speak for what other manufacturers are doing. If you get it close using this method though, it won't change much. Maybe a minute or two at the most

[asaberan]

Then buy it, thats how I got hooked on HK's I went in for a glock 19 and walked out with a USPC that was twice the price.

Maybe I will for my second or third handgun, but not for the first one.

[asaberan]

As you can see, everyone has opinions on what style and caliber gun they like. Personally, my carry gun is a Glock 26 loaded with Hydra-Shoks. For home defense, I still believe there isn't anything better than a good old fashioned 12 gauge. If you get a pump action, the sound of the action alone will stop most people dead in their tracks and then you won't have to worry about messing up the paint or carpet.

As for an FFL transfer, most gun shops will do it for about $20. They just need to fill out some forms and send it to the dealer on the other end. My buddy runs a gun shop outside of Nashville and does a lot of transfers. From what I understand, it's a pretty easy process as long as you've got your ducks in a row. Just make sure everyone is reputable.

Thanks for the suggestions. As I stated in my first post, I do have a 12 gauge, but I can't exactly keep that in my closet in the bedroom. That is in the gun cabinet in the basement. Also, home defense is not the only reason I want it. I also enjoy shooting very much (who doesn't?).