More 2009 GTO info ultimategto.com

Got this from www.ultimategto.com.

Saturday, May 10, 2008
2009 Pontiac GTO, unknown author
Pontiac GTO was a spin off from the Australian arm of GM, Holden, which sold a coupe domestically called the Monaro. As Holden is the last bastian of rear wheel drive in the GM empire, attention was focused on the Monaro and it was decided that the car could be brought into the US as the new GTO. A few changes were made, most notably the fuel tank was relocated which ate into trunk space, and the nose was redesigned for a Pontiac look.

But like the Monaro the GTO never really took off. Once everyone who wanted a big coupe had bought one, demand fell way off and the car was discontinued in 2006, when production of the Monaro was stopped. The GTO was also criticized for lacking visual aggression, which didn’t help sales.

Pontiac shifted just 36,427 GTOs over three years when the company had expected 54,000. At one point, due to proposed CAFE standards, the new GTO was almost cancelled, but the GTO’s future is assured, by none other than Bob Lutz, GM’s Vice President.

The new GTO will appear next year, along with the Chevrolet Camaro. As before, the chassis will be from Holden, but this time it’s the new Zeta platform, which debuted in the Australian VE Commodore. The Camaro will also use the Zeta platform, which is exceptionally stiff, which bodes well for handling, Certainly the Holden products drive very well.

The 2009 Pontiac GTO should be available with an entry level 261 horsepower 3.6 liter DOHC V6 and a full on 362 horsepower LS2 6.0 liter V8, the same engines that are available in the Pontiac G8.

One thing’s for sure, the 2009 Pontiac GTO will have much more aggressive styling than the previous model, to emphasize the cars sporty and muscular nature. And thanks to the Zeta platform suspension handling should match the image. Suspension at the front is MacPherson strut, and at the rear is a ‘proper’ multi link suspension rather than the primitive semi trailing arm suspension of the previous GTO. The wheelbase is also longer, giving the car a more stable ride, while the overhangs have been shortened, which should give the car a very sporty look.

There’s some question over whether the car will be built by Holden and exported to the US or whether it will be built in the US. The GTO is being developed in Australia because of Holden’s experience with the Zeta platform, but Bob Lutz says the final decision on the location of assembly will come down to the exchange rate between the Australian and American dollars. You can bet your bottom dollar that the UAW (United Auto Workers union) will be campaigning hard for the car to be built in the US.

I also got this from Edmunds.com
http://media.drive.com.au/?rid=35947

hmmmm sounds fishy.

sounds like i wrote it...lol wheres my BS flag...


:bs:

BS, even Luts isn't dumb enough to put a V6 in a GTO.

bwahaha what a load of BS, complete and utter BS

Lol at the LS2 thats in the G8......

QST, that stuff is embarrasing. Please stop while you still possess a shred of credibility.

<snip>

But like the Monaro the GTO never really took off.

<snip>

I particularly liked this part! ^^^

There is so much wrong info I don't where to begin.

This makes baby Jesus cry...

That smells like moldy, oldy ancient news. Maybe from 2005, before the GTO was cancelled (then reborn, then cancelled again...)... but it reflects nothing of the current realities.

Our best shot at a GTO is if Holden puts the Coupe 60 into production and exports it here - which Pontiac may not call a GTO anyway - assuming the less-than-50% chance of this occurring is wrong, and it actually does happen...

QST, that stuff is embarrasing. Please stop while you still possess a shred of credibility.

I am passing along info. I am unsure of how true it is, so I am asking the "Jedi Council" to confirm if it is.

Not too worried about my credability, just want to know the truth...so I can go to Iraq with some peace of mind regarding the future offerings. I'll keep checking, and as I can you guys can offer inputs.

There is no 2009 GTO in the works.

Def no 09 GTO, if another one at all. Most rear drive platforms/plans to's got cut back due to gov regs, the G8 and Camaro just made that cut. Also why they are making a V6 mustang with more power than the current GT, as pathetic as it sounds. Oil consumption remains a prob for production of muscle cars. And if a GTO was in the works 2009, um I think it would be in some magazines like the challanger and camaro duh, not like they are magicaly going to have a new model GTO on the pontiac show room floor just show up this summer.

I am passing along info. I am unsure of how true it is, so I am asking the "Jedi Council" to confirm if it is.

Not too worried about my credability, just want to know the truth...so I can go to Iraq with some peace of mind regarding the future offerings. I'll keep checking, and as I can you guys can offer inputs.


I am sorry, but you are passing along verbal diarhhea from a long-discredited source that has never been taken seriously by anyone interested in Pontiacs, GM vehicles and/or GTOs. If you're searching for the truth from those gasbags who won't even sign their articles because they know it's fraudulent, well?

As of now, there is no future GTO coming. There are NO PLANS for any Firebirds and if it's truly peace of mind you seek, pray that gas fall below $2.50 and our Democrat Congress realizes how many people their Gas Mandate will put out of work and relents on the impending limits.

There will be a backlash over these prices to be sure. Japan is re-starting their long dormant coal field which now make more sense economically. The free market will work if the boneheads of the world will let it. Opec will live to regret their policies, but it will take 3-8 years for the alternatives to pop out and when they do there will be a ton of crying Sheiks in the middle east pumping twice the volume at half the price.

China will strangle itself at these prices eventually as well. Once their price structures swallow the new energy costs, they will discover just how fickle American Investors are. Interesting times to be sure, but QST, it really does look like Pontiac's a damaged brand and going nowhere. All signs point to it. Hope I'm wrong.

I would not wipe my butt with this thread.http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=84607&stc=1&d=1211518925

I am sorry, but you are passing along verbal diarhhea from a long-discredited source that has never been taken seriously by anyone interested in Pontiacs, GM vehicles and/or GTOs. If you're searching for the truth from those gasbags who won't even sign their articles because they know it's fraudulent, well?

As of now, there is no future GTO coming. There are NO PLANS for any Firebirds and if it's truly peace of mind you seek, pray that gas fall below $2.50 and our Democrat Congress realizes how many people their Gas Mandate will put out of work and relents on the impending limits.

There will be a backlash over these prices to be sure. Japan is re-starting their long dormant coal field which now make more sense economically. The free market will work if the boneheads of the world will let it. Opec will live to regret their policies, but it will take 3-8 years for the alternatives to pop out and when they do there will be a ton of crying Sheiks in the middle east pumping twice the volume at half the price.

China will strangle itself at these prices eventually as well. Once their price structures swallow the new energy costs, they will discover just how fickle American Investors are. Interesting times to be sure, but QST, it really does look like Pontiac's a damaged brand and going nowhere. All signs point to it. Hope I'm wrong.


Thanks for the insight BQ.

2009 GTO LMAO yea right nice try tho lol

I am sorry, but you are passing along verbal diarhhea from a long-discredited source that has never been taken seriously by anyone interested in Pontiacs, GM vehicles and/or GTOs. If you're searching for the truth from those gasbags who won't even sign their articles because they know it's fraudulent, well?

As of now, there is no future GTO coming. There are NO PLANS for any Firebirds and if it's truly peace of mind you seek, pray that gas fall below $2.50 and our Democrat Congress realizes how many people their Gas Mandate will put out of work and relents on the impending limits.

There will be a backlash over these prices to be sure. Japan is re-starting their long dormant coal field which now make more sense economically. The free market will work if the boneheads of the world will let it. Opec will live to regret their policies, but it will take 3-8 years for the alternatives to pop out and when they do there will be a ton of crying Sheiks in the middle east pumping twice the volume at half the price.

China will strangle itself at these prices eventually as well. Once their price structures swallow the new energy costs, they will discover just how fickle American Investors are. Interesting times to be sure, but QST, it really does look like Pontiac's a damaged brand and going nowhere. All signs point to it. Hope I'm wrong.


Intereasting view point; but some of your energy consumption points are a bit off. First of all, The congress, nor the president can do anything about rising oil prices. Simply put the tanks are running dry. The vast majority of the oil that can be accesses cheaply is simply gone....

OPEC may still have some production capasity yet untapped, but it is not enough; most geologist agree that OPEC either already has peaked, or will peak within the next 36 months.

Ready or not $5 per gallon fuel is coming. Fuel prices will hit $4 per gallon in the next 3 weeks, and they will continue to go up. (As of today my corner station is selling bottom grade unleaded for $3.77, and we know for a fact that gas will be about $4.15 per gallon in 6-7weeks. (based off current oil costs).)

So how many people will daily drive cars that get under 20mpg @ $5 per gallon? $7 per gallon? $10 per gallon? If you intend to buy a new car that will take you 5 years to pay off, you need to not only think about the immediate fuel costs, but the long term fuel costs. In all reality unless something major changes in the next year or two, fuel will be over $7 per gallon by the end of 2010, and $10 per gallon by the end of 2013. (not corrected for inflation)


Just how the last gas crunch killed the muscle cars of old, this one will kill the muscle cars of the present.....

anyway...

:popcorn2:

Subaru looks very good eh?

There is no 2009 GTO in the works.

I have one on order :bs:

I would not wipe my butt with this thread.http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=84607&stc=1&d=1211518925

x2!!

I have one on order :bs:

It's obvious that your joking.

V6 and the the V8 with less hp then the years before, Fuk that!!! Thats gay if you ask me. when the gto comes back out they better throw an ls7 or ls9 in that biaatch!!! WOW just WOW!!! rant over. : )

V6 and the the V8 with less hp then the years before, Fuk that!!! Thats gay if you ask me. when the gto comes back out they better throw an ls7 or ls9 in that biaatch!!! WOW just WOW!!! rant over. : )

yea.. Ummm. This is a hoax Joe. Not real. Kind of like an "Onion" report from a car mag.

And stop using cute little autocensor violations. If the word is censored, that is not a challange to you to find new ways to spell it. It is the desire of the Admin for that word not to appear on the site. This is your warning.

I find it fascinating that everyone is getting all excited, pissed, etc over a car that doesnt exist. They aren't going to sell another GTO, it was a nightmare for them from a sales standpoint. Its not slated for the future at all. They are most likely going to focus the sport/muscle coupe on the Camaro if it ever comes out (2010 now). If they DO release a sport coupe from Pontiac that isnt the solstice, its going to be labelled as a G8 couple you can almost guarantee. Nothing is suggesting that'll happen though.

... They aren't going to sell another GTO...its going to be labelled as a G8 couple you can almost guarantee. Nothing is suggesting that'll happen though.

I have that sneaking suspicion...although I am currently living in denial.

Subaru looks very good eh?

For MPG? Maybe the family station wagon not the STi. The STi get worst MPG stock than ours do with mods. Why would they even make a GTO with the same engines with the same numbers as the G8. Just doesn't sound like a winner to me....now make the Coupe 60 and name it the GTO...YES!

And I read something back....years ago, saying that there was an oil reservoir in the Rocky Mountains. Some where around the lower part of it. Saying that there was more oil untapped under there than there was anywhere in the world combined. But we couldn't drill for it because of OPEC or some hippy group talking about the eco system or some tree they made love to in that area. Anyone know what I'm talking about or no?

G8 GXP maybe???

lol why would they take the new gto and give it less power then the 05/06 model.

There is no new GTO coming... and, with GM stock in the toilet, and GM burning cash (since their once-profitable big trucks and SUV's aren't selling), there probably never will be. Hummer is for sale, and GMC and Pontiac are on the chopping block. GMAC is basically bankrupt... life is going to get very bad for GM, very soon.

There is no new GTO coming... and, with GM stock in the toilet, and GM burning cash (since their once-profitable big trucks and SUV's aren't selling), there probably never will be. Hummer is for sale, and GMC and Pontiac are on the chopping block. GMAC is basically bankrupt... life is going to get very bad for GM, very soon.

Good thing I got my GTO, and that there is not only GMPP, but many great aftermarket companies out there. GM really needs to re-evaluate chopping Pontiac.
Robert, check with your sources to see if GM is looking into importing Holden to replace Pontiac.

sounds abit fishy to me but then again they are releaseing the new camaro with v6 again.

Look at mustangs I would say for every 10 I see 9 are v6 models. I would suppose camaros would be no differant.

Camaro Lineup
LS- either a Mid 250hp V-6 or possibly the Ecotech 4 banger with a turbo from the solstice.

LT- 300hp 3.6 litre direct injection. Same as 08' cts.

SS-LS3 with 395-415 hp supposedly.

2011- a Z28 with approximately 500hp from the S/C LSA. Yeah right.

Or so I read.

There is no new GTO coming... and, with GM stock in the toilet, and GM burning cash (since their once-profitable big trucks and SUV's aren't selling), there probably never will be. Hummer is for sale, and GMC and Pontiac are on the chopping block. GMAC is basically bankrupt... life is going to get very bad for GM, very soon.

Sadly true Robert. We may even see a merger with GM and one of the Japanese makers in the not too distant future. What little R&D money there is floating around is going into a desparate attempt to get the Volt to market ASAP. Ford is tanking and Chrysler is in much worse shape than Cerberon is making public. This all is not good. My GTO is staying put.

Wow just found and started reading this thread! very sad....didnt know pontiac was on the chopping block. If pontiac gets chopped (they have had the only quality fast cars that are affordable lately-GTO AND G8) I am freakin moving to australia :)

Time to start investing in Holden/HSV?

GM has too many brands here in the States. They'd never bring Holden or Opel here directly under those names.

Hummer is as good as gone, and GMC is likely to be chopped. The current rumormill says that Pontiac will also go, but GM will move Saturn into the former Buick/Pontiac/GMC dealerships, making it Buick/Saturn (a/k/a the BS division :).

This makes no sense to me (keep giving Saturn chances - Saturn has a stigma of cheap quirky economy cars, which doesn't fit the upscale Euro Opel-derived models they are peddling.

Opel = Saturn
Holden = Opel + Daewoo + VE
Pontiac = Holden + rebadged Chevy's and Toyota's

Pontiac still sells tons more cars/has many more dealers than Saturn's 450. Personally, if I was in charge of GM, I'd give Saturn the boot (offering those dealers Buick-Pontiac franchises, if no B-P dealer was nearby). Even if you paid out each Saturn dealer $1 million, it'd still be cheaper than trying to pay out the >1000 Buick-Pontiac dealers.

Pontiac would get the next Astra/Insignia to replace the G5 and G6. You could bring over the Corsa and Meriva too. There'd be more symbiosis with Holden then as well, and you wouldn't lose the Pontiac brand (it would be more "Eurosport"). Sounds like a win-win to me... but GM will probably make some boneheaded decision...

GM has too many brands here in the States. They'd never bring Holden or Opel here directly under those names.

Hummer is as good as gone, and GMC is likely to be chopped. The current rumormill says that Pontiac will also go, but GM will move Saturn into the former Buick/Pontiac/GMC dealerships, making it Buick/Saturn (a/k/a the BS division :).

This makes no sense to me (keep giving Saturn chances - Saturn has a stigma of cheap quirky economy cars, which doesn't fit the upscale Euro Opel-derived models they are peddling.

Opel = Saturn
Holden = Opel + Daewoo + VE
Pontiac = Holden + rebadged Chevy's and Toyota's

Pontiac still sells tons more cars/has many more dealers than Saturn's 450. Personally, if I was in charge of GM, I'd give Saturn the boot (offering those dealers Buick-Pontiac franchises, if no B-P dealer was nearby). Even if you paid out each Saturn dealer $1 million, it'd still be cheaper than trying to pay out the >1000 Buick-Pontiac dealers.

Pontiac would get the next Astra/Insignia to replace the G5 and G6. You could bring over the Corsa and Meriva too. There'd be more symbiosis with Holden then as well, and you wouldn't lose the Pontiac brand (it would be more "Eurosport"). Sounds like a win-win to me... but GM will probably make some boneheaded decision...

BONEHEADED INDEED!!! It seems as though instead of gaining the inputs from those that pay their paychecks GM has gone about doing things as though they don't need our inputs.
Case in point Saturn. If you ask, I'm sure the majority would clearly agree with us and Saturn would be long gone.
To me, Saturn was nothing more then a gimmick...allowing people an opportunity to get themselves into a GM product at a reduced price. In recent years the economy dictates that too many brands is a bad thing (that is obvious). At the end of the day, ask the average person on the street (many of whom own a GM product) which brand should be axed Saturn or Pontiac...I have no doubt the response will be Saturn.

Pontiac can be that division that fields unique vehicles for GM from the other divisions owned by GM...Holden and Opel to name a couple. The other company that GM dropped the ball on was...Subaru! Yes that's right folks...Subaru. GM a had share of ownership in Subaru, but let it go.
Subaru is only gaining ground, and it will be my next new car purchase (Forester or Outback)...AWD capability, and you can beat the crap out of them and they beg for more. I am not a Siren or anything for Subaru, but I believe in their product.

Some might say...the Torrent has AWD, well it does, but not "All- time" AWD, and the MPG is not as good as the Subaru, not to mention the fact that GM is now talking about axing GMC where the Torrent was slated to be transferred to.

I have to say that thanks to the info I have received here on this site I am convinced that I am extrememly disenchanted with GM's moves and Saturn will not be in my driveway, but Subaru will, along with my GTO, and my Wife's 2007 G6 GT Coupe (which we purchased at the beginning of 2008). I am loyal, but am not blind nor hard-headed. Case in point: Wife was looking at both the 350Z and the Eclipse, 350Z nice, but utility sucks and the price too high. Eclipse nice, price nice, utility sucked. G6 GT nice, good utility, good price...we bought.

Now as far as I'm concerned when I purchase another GM product...it won't be a Saturn!!!

Look at mustangs I would say for every 10 I see 9 are v6 models. I would suppose camaros would be no differant.

very true!

GM has too many brands here in the States. They'd never bring Holden or Opel here directly under those names.

Hummer is as good as gone, and GMC is likely to be chopped. The current rumormill says that Pontiac will also go, but GM will move Saturn into the former Buick/Pontiac/GMC dealerships, making it Buick/Saturn (a/k/a the BS division :).

This makes no sense to me (keep giving Saturn chances - Saturn has a stigma of cheap quirky economy cars, which doesn't fit the upscale Euro Opel-derived models they are peddling.

Opel = Saturn
Holden = Opel + Daewoo + VE
Pontiac = Holden + rebadged Chevy's and Toyota's

Pontiac still sells tons more cars/has many more dealers than Saturn's 450. Personally, if I was in charge of GM, I'd give Saturn the boot (offering those dealers Buick-Pontiac franchises, if no B-P dealer was nearby). Even if you paid out each Saturn dealer $1 million, it'd still be cheaper than trying to pay out the >1000 Buick-Pontiac dealers.

Pontiac would get the next Astra/Insignia to replace the G5 and G6. You could bring over the Corsa and Meriva too. There'd be more symbiosis with Holden then as well, and you wouldn't lose the Pontiac brand (it would be more "Eurosport"). Sounds like a win-win to me... but GM will probably make some boneheaded decision...

If the dollar keeps tanking I wouldn't count on any more Opels or Holdens. GM plans to export Caddys and more through Port Hueneme

GM only imports the Opel Astra for Saturn because they have no way to build them right now. Next platforms will be universal - in fact the Meriva replacement may be built here and exported to Europe (one advantage of the declining dollar). The Aura, Vue, Outlook, and Sky are all built in North America (may be derivative of Opel designs, but aren't exactly the same cars).

Only reason we're getting Holdens is so we can maximize production at Elizabeth. If Holden gets the ability to build smaller vehicles (Alpha) at Elizabeth, they won't need the export volume for the G8, et. al....

--Robert

GM only imports the Opel Astra for Saturn because they have no way to build them right now. Next platforms will be universal - in fact the Meriva replacement may be built here and exported to Europe (one advantage of the declining dollar). The Aura, Vue, Outlook, and Sky are all built in North America (may be derivative of Opel designs, but aren't exactly the same cars).

Only reason we're getting Holdens is so we can maximize production at Elizabeth. If Holden gets the ability to build smaller vehicles (Alpha) at Elizabeth, they won't need the export volume for the G8, et. al....

--Robert

Does this mean that at some point GM may:

1) Move G8 production to the US?

or

2) Would GM build a NA Alpha here rather than in Australia?

Also Robert I've seen some rumblings about GMC possibly being the leading division to get the axe (after the sale? of Hummer). If that happens would it not put GM in a better position to offer more RWD cars (rather than trucks or SUV's) if the public still wants them?

I think that a better way would be for GM to "hibernate" GMC until prospects improve for the type of trucks and SUV's it traditionally offers the public. After all this would simply mean that the brand would remain in GM's portfolio but no actual vehicles would be produced until GM judged the time right to bring back the brand.

Does this mean that at some point GM may:

1) Move G8 production to the US?

That will never happen. The Zeta platform is pretty much dead since it's overweight and CAFE-negative. There will be large RWD vehicles, but will be based on Zeta's successor (potentially a unification of Sigma and Zeta, but probably more Sigma - there's a huge "Not Invented Here" issue with Zeta and GMNA).

2) Would GM build a NA Alpha here rather than in Australia?

It's going to be built here regardless (one positive of the low dollar). The question is whether the Aussie Alpha will be built there or here...

Also Robert I've seen some rumblings about GMC possibly being the leading division to get the axe (after the sale? of Hummer). If that happens would it not put GM in a better position to offer more RWD cars (rather than trucks or SUV's) if the public still wants them?

I think that a better way would be for GM to "hibernate" GMC until prospects improve for the type of trucks and SUV's it traditionally offers the public. After all this would simply mean that the brand would remain in GM's portfolio but no actual vehicles would be produced until GM judged the time right to bring back the brand.

I think most GM management feels that the big truck market is never coming back to the levels it was. This is why 4 truck plants (Janesville, Moraine, Oshawa Truck, Toluca MX) got the axe. GMC has been a very profitable gravy train for GM for the years, since their products were just rebadged Chevrolet's (just needed to market them), but the gravy train's run out, and there is no need for a separate truck division in the future (thanks, CAFE and $5/gallon gas prices)...

I think most GM management feels that the big truck market is never coming back to the levels it was. This is why 4 truck plants (Janesville, Moraine, Oshawa Truck, Toluca MX) got the axe. GMC has been a very profitable gravy train for GM for the years, since their products were just rebadged Chevrolet's (just needed to market them), but the gravy train's run out, and there is no need for a separate truck division in the future (thanks, CAFE and $5/gallon gas prices)...
I agree Robert...with the exception of the truck market.....it will be back......because that is what we do. Hummer may be sold...OK.....what will we do for our Military vehicles? GMC.....gone.....logical IMO. Buick won't go before Pontiac because of China (go figure) . So then its Saturn or Pontiac. Hmmmm....I have one each in my garage....My Saturn is pre Opel (I think) and my Pontiac is Holden.
Let Opel/Saturn merge into Chevy and Holden into Pontiac. So we're left with Chevy, Buick, Ponitac...Ok I'm drunk and disregard all I just typed :p.

I agree Robert...with the exception of the truck market.....it will be back......because that is what we do. Hummer may be sold...OK.....what will we do for our Military vehicles? GMC.....gone.....logical IMO. Buick won't go before Pontiac because of China (go figure) . So then its Saturn or Pontiac. Hmmmm....I have one each in my garage....My Saturn is pre Opel (I think) and my Pontiac is Holden.
Let Opel/Saturn merge into Chevy and Holden into Pontiac. So we're left with Chevy, Buick, Ponitac...Ok I'm drunk and disregard all I just typed :p.

Despite permanently-high fuel prices, the truck market will still be there - for people who need them (contractors, tradesmen, et. al.). Soccer moms won't, they'll have a Volt or hybrid car. There's no more room for 3 discrete truck brands at GM (Chevy Truck, GMC, Hummer)... Chevy will get the prize, the other 2 will go away.

Anyone suggesting dealership brand changes should think about franchise laws. There'd be no way to "move" Pontiac or Buick or GMC from their current channel into another without many expensive lawsuits.

So, let's look at the scorecard:

Hummer = internally gone, expect Mahindra or someone to pick them up.
GMC = likely gone, GM hopes its buyers go to Chevy but is prepared to see them go elsewhere if necessary (cost of marketing/development/rebadging > profit from expected future levels of customers
Buick = not going anywhere thanks to China

This leaves Saturn and Pontiac.

Saturn: pro's = dealership experience, good service, gets some customers who ordinarily wouldn't buy GM
cons = reputation for cheap, plastic, poor-quality vehicles, no-dicker sticker, small (450) dealer base

Pontiac: pro's = "excitement" reputation, attracts lots of female, and younger buyers, large (>1000) dealer base
cons = poor dealership experience, poor service experience, past styling questionable

So, you have to ask yourself, if you were Rick Wagoner, what would you do?

Personally, I'd kill Saturn (offering their dealer franchises the option of a Buick-Pontiac franchise, assuming there wasn't another in their immediate town/marketplace). You'd have to pay out some of the dealers, but cap the franchise buyout at $1 million and you'd pay less than $450 million to shut down the brand. Bring all of the future Opel product here as Pontiacs (continuing the trend of the "Euro Pontiac" that the GTO and G8 started). This also aligns Pontiac even closer to Holden, who resells some Opel models in Oz. Proper, great marketing could restore the Pontiac name (easier than changing people's minds about Saturn).

What GM is rumored to be doing: killing Pontiac, and integrating Saturn in with the Buick franchises (forming the all-powerful BS division of GM :). This makes no sense to me as, other than the Astra, the Aura and next-gen Lacrosse/Invicta compete, the Outlook competes with the Enclave, and the VUE competes with the forthcoming Buick crossover.

Just my 2 cents,

--Robert

More proof GMC is on the way out, along with Hummer:

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f70/gmi-exclusive-some-gmc-product-programs-bite-dust-66182/

I'd rather see Buick and Saturn gone before GMC and Pontiac. I realize that economics are going to dictate all of this, but I just have a hard time imagining a world in which I am unable to buy either a new GMC truck or a new Pontiac.

GM as a whole is in such a situation that drastic changes need to be made across the board. No more bandaids on severed arms.


Personally, Pontiac and GMC should be cut. I've liked pontiacs current and past but the division is a major draw on the health of GM. Dealerships suck, service sucks and the only product worth owning is the G8. G6 makes sales which is nice but the retarded G5 and Torrent take a step back.
The solstice is a terrific car. not quite sure where that thing belongs. Probably give it to Chevy.

Focus on trucks and SUVs need to change now, drastically, and not look back. hence, GMC's fate is sealed. Chevy can carry everything that is needed in the lineup.


Stock is worth nothing. Bad situation for GM, Ford, And Chrysler. All three could die and i wouldn't be surprised reading the headlines

The Big Three are in a frantic fight to get NHTSA madated gas mileage rules relaxed. They are threatening the health of their companies unless some accomodations are made. The problem is, even if they succeed in getting NHTSA to back down, gas prices are going to be the biggest factor.

The Big Three are in a frantic fight to get NHTSA madated gas mileage rules relaxed. They are threatening the health of their companies unless some accomodations are made. The problem is, even if they succeed in getting NHTSA to back down, gas prices are going to be the biggest factor.

All Auto companies that do Business here in the US are in on the push to make NHTSA back off. The big 3 are hurting. The Mustang and F-series have been carrying Ford for a while, with help from the Taurus.

GM is brand heavy. There is no need for a G5 and Cobalt. at least the G6 and Malibu look more different than they are. Saturn is a joke, but less of one in the last few years. Cadillac is finally putting in interiors that didnt come from Chevy. GMC was just a way to charge more for a Chevy.

My feelings on the fix:
Let China and nursing homes have their Buicks.
Let GMC have ALL the trucks, to include G8 Ute
Chevy is cars/ lifted station wagons plus Corvette, and Corvair (the former Saturn Sky)
Pontiac is performance, G8 and variants, G6, solstice
Cadillac is luxury, cars with ~5000 escalades a year

Trim the whole dealer network down, Tie special deliveries (IE early Camaro shipments, extra vettes) to service quality from the greasy side of the store so that service is first. My family drives 50 miles to get our GM's, because our local dealer (a mile away) has the worst service dept ive ever seen.

Just trying to understand what you guys have said, it doesn't make sense. This morning I saw on MSNBC news that GM is still No. 1. As far as the Pontiac division goes I think it would take at least 3 years to close that division down if it happens at all. The GMC could actually be merged with the Pontiac division. And talking about the heavy Zeta platform and low gas mileage, I think the heavy Zeta platform is more safe than any on the road and I know it is possilble to make the cafe standard with that platform. I would not want a light weight road car going up against all the trucks, of all sizes, on the road. Mercedes are heavy and they will have to meet the same standards. Just all this stuff doesn't make sense and I know alot is due to the gas market of today. Hopefully that will change within the next couple of years. People will pay to be safe with the heavier cars and pay for the high performance vehicicles. ex: dodge challenger. This wasn't to flame anyone its just my .02 cents.

yeah I know??

BS

V6 = fail
LS2 in G8 = fail (I thought there is no more LS2?)

BS

V6 = fail
LS2 in G8 = fail (I thought there is no more LS2?)

Few things...

You're right, there are no LS2s in any G8, its an LS3 thats in the G8. There ARE V6 G8s, they're sedans, no issue there really. There is NOT going to be a G8 Coupe more than likely. If you want something thats a couple and putting 400hp out, you'll be waiting until the Camaros come out in 2010. As it is the G8 GXP won't be out until either late this year, or sometime next year.

On some of the other comments, I don't see the pontiac brand going anywhere. Pontiac is for the most part their only brand that is competing with a lot of the cars out there from other companies, primarily the companies based in Germany and in Japan. If anything the brand I'd see going is Buick, Buick realistically falls somewhere between Chevy and Cadillac, to me there is no need for Buick. GMC is the same thing, its no different than the Chevy truck except for the badging, get rid of that.

There is no 2009 GTO in the works.

What does your crystal ball say about a model based on the Coupe 60?

On some of the other comments, I don't see the pontiac brand going anywhere. Pontiac is for the most part their only brand that is competing with a lot of the cars out there from other companies, primarily the companies based in Germany and in Japan. If anything the brand I'd see going is Buick, Buick realistically falls somewhere between Chevy and Cadillac, to me there is no need for Buick. GMC is the same thing, its no different than the Chevy truck except for the badging, get rid of that.

I totally agree GM should drop Buick and GMC and blend the cars into other brands.

We'll be talking about the 2009 GTO fantasy into 2010!

I totally agree GM should drop Buick and GMC and blend the cars into other brands.

We'll be talking about the 2009 GTO fantasy into 2010!


I think the bigger issue that many don't talk about is how GM has spent tons of money in advertising, etc... on Saturn. Saturn was merely a way for people to get into a GM product, basically taking Chevy's place in that regard. Some will disagree with me, but think for a moment...had GM just closed Saturn some time ago when there wasn't as much interest, where would GM be financially? I think in a better position. Some will say Saturn is a keeper, but at the cost of axing GMC and Pontiac? So explain to me how "cutting off your nose to spite your face" is a good thing.:nuts:

Few things...

You're right, there are no LS2s in any G8, its an LS3 thats in the G8. There ARE V6 G8s, they're sedans, no issue there really. There is NOT going to be a G8 Coupe more than likely. If you want something thats a couple and putting 400hp out, you'll be waiting until the Camaros come out in 2010. As it is the G8 GXP won't be out until either late this year, or sometime next year.

On some of the other comments, I don't see the pontiac brand going anywhere. Pontiac is for the most part their only brand that is competing with a lot of the cars out there from other companies, primarily the companies based in Germany and in Japan. If anything the brand I'd see going is Buick, Buick realistically falls somewhere between Chevy and Cadillac, to me there is no need for Buick. GMC is the same thing, its no different than the Chevy truck except for the badging, get rid of that.

LS3 = 6.2L not in G8 GT but in GXP. I think the G8 is LQ9 but not sure. Long live Pontiac I hope.

LS3 = 6.2L not in G8 GT but in GXP. I think the G8 is LQ9 but not sure. Long live Pontiac I hope.

G8 GT is L76. 6.0L aluminum v8 with L92 style heads/intake.

.... GMC is the same thing, its no different than the Chevy truck except for the badging, get rid of that.

GMC sells rebadged Chevy trucks, that is true. The presumed reason is so that other GM divisions can have trucks to sell (Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, Saturn, etc.).
Based on having trucks available to all GM divisions, it would make more sense to drop trucks and truck based SUV's from the Chevy brand and just sell truck based products under the GMC brand name.
Chevrolet - run of the mill cars
Cadillac - high end cars
GMC - Truck platform vehicles
Drop all the other brand names

An even simpler fix would be to have just one banner and take whichever brand name you prefer to sell everything under.
Either GM or Cheverolet, whichever brand has the best name recognition.

Some will say Saturn is a keeper, but at the cost of axing GMC and Pontiac? So explain to me how "cutting off your nose to spite your face" is a good thing.


Why would Pontiac get the ax? GMC is a glorified Chevy and Buick had what 3 maybe 4 models? Saturn which was a economy branch of GM is taking vehicles off other divisions which to me is a waste of resourses. I agree Saturn should be dumped.

Anyone thinking the Challenger will save Chrysler is smoking something. In fact, it may be last death gasp of the company.

Why would Pontiac get the ax? GMC is a glorified Chevy and Buick had what 3 maybe 4 models? Saturn which was a economy branch of GM is taking vehicles off other divisions which to me is a waste of resourses. I agree Saturn should be dumped.

You are thinking with your head.

Completely different from bean counters who live and die by what the financial books say.
When corporations get into financial troubles the bean counters take over and run things.
Logic and reason go out the door with the rest of the trash.

Anyone thinking the Challenger will save Chrysler is smoking something. In fact, it may be last death gasp of the company.

I'm not sure about that BQ, however charging as much as they are for the Challenger is crazy...even at a Military discount I still would be paying $40K +, which in the end is stupid when I can have a G8 GXP.

I'm not sure about that BQ, however charging as much as they are for the Challenger is crazy...even at a Military discount I still would be paying $40K +, which in the end is stupid when I can have a G8 GXP.

You might take a look at the prices on the 09 Challengers. It is up on the Dodge website.
base V6 starts at 21K
V8 RT starts at about 31K
The 40K+ is for the fully loaded SRT, which has 425 HP and a bunch of other high dollar upgrades to go along with it and a gas guzzler surcharge.

Several dealers have already announced that they will sell 09's at substantially under MSRP once enough get made for them to actually have a few in stock.

The 08's are going for well over MSRP at the moment, which is why I cancelled my order and got my deposit back.
Give it another 3 or 4 months and things will level out.
I have also been following some Challengers listed on E-Bay and most seem to have 0 bids. I don't care for silver but followed one that had a minimum reserve of 40K. The online auction on it expired yesterday and never even got a bid.
My guess is that most of the potential buyers have done the same as me and backed off for a few months to let the BS clear out.

EDIT to fix my poor typing.

Here in Greenville SC all the dealers are sold out of callangers and are selling them for 10k-12- over msrp. All I can say is that they seem to be selling good for what it is worth.
One guy bought 2 for 106k and is auctioning the other one off to the highest bidder.

Here in Greenville SC all the dealers are sold out of callangers and are selling them for 10k-12- over msrp. All I can say is that they seem to be selling good for what it is worth.
One guy bought 2 for 106k and is auctioning the other one off to the highest bidder.

I guess that's ok if you just "gotta have" a new Challenger, however if I am going to pay over $50K for anything it will be a used C6 ZO6.

What does your crystal ball say about a model based on the Coupe 60?

Mine says there will never be another GTO... and a Coupe 60-based Monaro is pretty unlikely...

Mine says there will never be another GTO... and a Coupe 60-based Monaro is pretty unlikely...

It may be due to the waiting game to see how not only the G8 GXP does, but the Camaro.

It may be due to the waiting game to see how not only the G8 GXP does, but the Camaro.

I agree with you.

Anyone thinking the Challenger will save Chrysler is smoking something. In fact, it may be last death gasp of the company.

But what a way to go. :drool::boink:

deleted per request

yea this thread is garbage, but i don't think any of us can argue that the gto didn't take off... i mean if manufacturers only make a car for 3 years thats a pretty telling sign of terrible sales

yea this thread is garbage, but i don't think any of us can argue that the gto didn't take off... i mean if manufacturers only make a car for 3 years thats a pretty telling sign of terrible sales

I won't comment on this except to say your ignorance of the facts surrounding the PLANNED 3 year run of the GTO is amusing. Do some research and edumacate yourselves.

yea this thread is garbage, but i don't think any of us can argue that the gto didn't take off... i mean if manufacturers only make a car for 3 years thats a pretty telling sign of terrible sales

To be honest, the car actually did take off, considering it's original plan. Here's is your lesson for the day. When this car went on sale, it was only planned to be run for ~3-4 years. So, when the car was first sold (in 2001), there were only plans for around 10K or so of them. That's the Monaro, from which the GTO came from. When Lutz went to Oz in 2003, he saw the cars, liked the cars, & said let's sell them in the US. So, in 2004, we got the GTO. The car took off from being a 10K car run in 1 country over a 3-4 year period to a 50K unit car sold in multiple countries (under 4 different names) over a 5 year model run. GM made money on that car. Sounds like a hit to me.

Dude Guys This Guy Knows What Hes Talking About!!!!:shiner:

Here in Greenville SC all the dealers are sold out of callangers and are selling them for 10k-12- over msrp. All I can say is that they seem to be selling good for what it is worth.
One guy bought 2 for 106k and is auctioning the other one off to the highest bidder.

Really no different than when the GTO first launched. Dealers in GA were selling them for 45k (I tried to buy one but couldn't afford it).

To be honest, the car actually did take off, considering it's original plan. Here's is your lesson for the day. When this car went on sale, it was only planned to be run for ~3-4 years. So, when the car was first sold (in 2001), there were only plans for around 10K or so of them. That's the Monaro, from which the GTO came from. When Lutz went to Oz in 2003, he saw the cars, liked the cars, & said let's sell them in the US. So, in 2004, we got the GTO. The car took off from being a 10K car run in 1 country over a 3-4 year period to a 50K unit car sold in multiple countries (under 4 different names) over a 5 year model run. GM made money on that car. Sounds like a hit to me.

I've been saying this all along. And aside from whether anyone of us thinks it was a success or not....who cares? I like mine. I like the lines of the car. I like the subtlety of the styling, I like the fact that they are NOT common, (I liked the Acura TL until I started to see them everywhere), I like the interior, the ride, the sound, the performance...get the picture?

I've been saying this all along. And aside from whether anyone of us thinks it was a success or not....who cares? ...get the picture?

Your earlier posts implied that the GTO was a sales flop. The "public" thinks so, but that's only because it didn't sell 10 billion per year. I liked mine as well. I didn't get rid of mine because I didn't like it, but more for financial reasons.

Your earlier posts implied that the GTO was a sales flop. The "public" thinks so, but that's only because it didn't sell 10 billion per year. I liked mine as well. I didn't get rid of mine because I didn't like it, but more for financial reasons.

I guess I may have implied that previously, but having done a little more research has helped me put the GTO sales in perspective. Saab is going at the rate of 20,000 units this year for the entire car line including all models. Saturn is about 90,000 car units for the year. When you look at those figures which represent an entire division, the 14 to 15 thousand GTO units don't really seem so much like a failure, especially when you consider how specialized the car is and how limited the options were.

Aside from that...as stated previously I don't really care. I like mine because I know what it is and it doesn't bother me a bit that some people want to bash it because they think it was a sales failure.

I continually have people in parking lots come over and compliment the car and ask what it is. To me this represents more a failure of marketing than sales. But, it is also easy to criticize GM marketing. Getting the word out to the public about a car that represents about .1% of the total U.S. market is not an easy task.

^^I agree. I get at least one person every couple days or so asking me what kind of car it is. I could say a Maserati XYZ for all they know. When I tell them it's a Pontiac GTO, they're always like "huh, I've never seen one of those, are they new?" So yeah, poor marketing.

I personally, LIKE the exclusivity. I remember seeing the 04's on the road and always noticing them and wondering what they were. I'd get closer and see it's a GTO, I knew I would have one.

I highly doubt it. Dont believe there will be anymore new GTOs