Heads or gears

I have full exhaust, intake, VRX3 cam, 2800 stall, nitto dr and a ported stock manifold.

06 A4 413whp/403lbs

Ran 11.84@114.40 best so far.

Looking for some more mph at the track and from a roll. Would like to trap 117ish and have more pulling power from a roll. Car is only driven once or twice a week. Which would you do when considering the most bank for the buck?

I like the head option

The TF225 is what Vengeance recommended today. How much gain in hp/et/mph did you get from the heads?

Looks like you have gears and heads. Which one gave you the most overall gain? Did you gain or lose mph with the gears?

I was in the same boat about 3 weeks ago. Finally decided to go the more HP route. Glad I did, since Difftechnics is in the works on getting cheaper gear sets available.....

Get a good set of heads and you won't need gears.

How do the PRC 5.3L heads compare to the Trickflow 225s?

They won't make as much hp/trq. Save up for the Trickflows, they're worth it.

trickflow FTMFW! short of ETP's i havnt seen bigger gains in hp/tq from a set of out of the box heads. Having gears makes the car feel lighter on its feet, but ultimately heads will give you more MPH at the track and make the car faster on the highway. Gears are cheaper than a good set of heads though probably by a grand or more when its all said and done. So if i was out to save a buck id do gears, if budget isnt an issue id do heads all day long.

The TF225 is what Vengeance recommended today. How much gain in hp/et/mph did you get from the heads?

Looks like you have gears and heads. Which one gave you the most overall gain? Did you gain or lose mph with the gears?


I gained 60 hp with the heads. The gears gained me nothing in the 1/4. I sent you a PM

another thing that would help would be lose the stock manifold get a fast or that other bigfoot derived manifold coming out some time in the next century lol

Even ported that manifold is choking your cam to death.

other then that I would say get heads although I love my gears!

I would do both the heads (Dart 225's) and the gears(Diff tech)
Reason I say this is u because u can by Darts for 1600 and the new gears for under 550

Darts/Gears 1600+550=2150
TFS/YT's 2250+400=2650

I'll save the 500 and put it towards a Fast Intake,FWIW the TFS MIGHT make another 7 to 10 rw over the Darts ;)

TFS 225 and a Vengeance ported fast would give you some more MPH:)

idk much about gears but my motor man said that his buddy had a 05 M6 and he put gears in it and it ran worse, just something to ponder..........

idk much about gears but my motor man said that his buddy had a 05 M6 and he put gears in it and it ran worse, just something to ponder..........

Gears are relative to your setup, gears dont always make u faster..... sometimes just make u have to shift quicker and therefor loose time.....

Good feedback guys thanks. Sounds like I should save for the heads and go that route. I don't really like the FAST idea. I like things that just bolt on without modification.

Will the heads need any modifications or will they just bolt on? What seres of ETP heads compare to the TF225? 60 hp gain from heads is crazy! I'd have no problem spending 3k for that kind of power! What other mods do you have?

nothing wrong with FAST intakes especially since you don't mind spending money for power.

Etp makes a 225 series head, but IMHO if you want a snappy throttle and still get great top-end i like the 215's for a 364ci motor. You give up some top end and gain some mid range tq typically, which is what the heavy GTO needs. They say tq wins races, and in a GTO that statement means more than most people realize.

oh and i'll put this out there, when i was researching cylinder heads for my own car, (and believe me i searched and read as much as i could about the subject for 2 months) I finally decided on a fast intake to compliment my cam. Eventually when i do put heads on, i'll be getting the most CFM i can out of them. no point in putting 300+cfm heads on a restrictive intake manifold, but thats just how i feel. You will certainly pick up power, but unless you at least open up the ls2 a little your not gonna see much more than 40hp from a set of heads.

Etp makes a 225 series head, but IMHO if you want a snappy throttle and still get great top-end i like the 215's for a 364ci motor. You give up some top end and gain some mid range tq typically, which is what the heavy GTO needs. They say tq wins races, and in a GTO that statement means more than most people realize.

oh and i'll put this out there, when i was researching cylinder heads for my own car, (and believe me i searched and read as much as i could about the subject for 2 months) I finally decided on a fast intake to compliment my cam. Eventually when i do put heads on, i'll be getting the most CFM i can out of them. no point in putting 300+cfm heads on a restrictive intake manifold, but thats just how i feel. You will certainly pick up power, but unless you at least open up the ls2 a little your not gonna see much more than 40hp from a set of heads.


He's got a ported stocker...

ExTurbo, did you pick up any HP at all when you put your FAST with just your CAM only?

Etp makes a 225 series head, but IMHO if you want a snappy throttle and still get great top-end i like the 215's for a 364ci motor. You give up some top end and gain some mid range tq typically, which is what the heavy GTO needs. They say tq wins races, and in a GTO that statement means more than most people realize.

oh and i'll put this out there, when i was researching cylinder heads for my own car, (and believe me i searched and read as much as i could about the subject for 2 months) I finally decided on a fast intake to compliment my cam. Eventually when i do put heads on, i'll be getting the most CFM i can out of them. no point in putting 300+cfm heads on a restrictive intake manifold, but thats just how i feel. You will certainly pick up power, but unless you at least open up the ls2 a little your not gonna see much more than 40hp from a set of heads.


+1

Ed Curtis can talk intelligently about the ETP heads. He will know your cam as well, its a Comp grind. I'm certain he can set you up to achieve your goals.

TFS 225 and a Vengeance ported fast would give you some more MPH:) I agree. Gears are nice but with your set up I'd go heads and ported FAST. Don't discount the FAST, pricey but it makes awesome midrange power and would compliment that cam nicely. If you don't like the way it looks have Vengeance do the stealth sand/paint job, looks way cool. Gears are nice but the heads/ported FAST are optimal IMHO.:turbonaug

I just don't think I'll get much more power over my ported stocker to deal with all the mods it takes to run a fast. If I could see 20whp over the ported stocker for 1k I'd do it but I doubt that would happen. I hear there are potential fuel rail leaks, have to get injector adapters, the fast pushes the tb forward making the intake not fit as well, etc.

Seriously though, if I knew it would give me 20+whp without issue and without losing any low rpm torque I'd do the fast first.

I just don't think I'll get much more power over my ported stocker to deal with all the mods it takes to run a fast. If I could see 20whp over the ported stocker for 1k I'd do it but I doubt that would happen. I hear there are potential fuel rail leaks, have to get injector adapters, the fast pushes the tb forward making the intake not fit as well, etc.

Seriously though, if I knew it would give me 20+whp without issue and without losing any low rpm torque I'd do the fast first. FWIW I have had a Vengeance ported FAST for the past 12,000 miles and have not had any of those problems. No leaks, CAI fits like a glove. I'd betcha a beer that with those mods a ported FAST would get you 20 HP.

FWIW I have had a Vengeance ported FAST for the past 12,000 miles and have not had any of those problems. No leaks, CAI fits like a glove. I'd betcha a beer that with those mods a ported FAST would get you 20 HP.

I agree.

I just don't think I'll get much more power over my ported stocker to deal with all the mods it takes to run a fast. If I could see 20whp over the ported stocker for 1k I'd do it but I doubt that would happen. I hear there are potential fuel rail leaks, have to get injector adapters, the fast pushes the tb forward making the intake not fit as well, etc.

Seriously though, if I knew it would give me 20+whp without issue and without losing any low rpm torque I'd do the fast first.

It is not a big deal bolting one on. You don't NEED the adapters for the FAST to work. With ANY mechanical aptitude, its a piece of cake. Do it, you'll be glad you did.

Damn now ya'll got me wanting a fast. You really think I can get 20whp over the existing ported ls2 intake? If so I'm on that like stink on a terd!

It is not a big deal bolting one on. You don't NEED the adapters for the FAST to work. With ANY mechanical aptitude, its a piece of cake. Do it, you'll be glad you did.

if you DON'T have any you'll tighten the base down with the stock valley bolts in and crack it :wall: :gr_jest:

and its not really how much HP you have gotten from the ported FAST its where that HP is located in the powerband. What I say is you get the FAST now and then the heads later and make maximum performance when you do the heads!

Will the heads need any modifications or will they just bolt on?
You will need new Rocker Arms, the Yella Terras work great and are lightweight. You will also need longer pushrods.

You really think I can get 20whp over the existing ported ls2 intake?
You can definately get that much with a ported FAST 92 over your ported LS2.

Well hell guys think I'm gonna consider the FAST for now and wait on the rest. I almost hate to mod my car now. I went out racing tonight and it runs damn good. Tune is spot on and the car just pulls hard. I ran real well at the races. I've been curious how much I could pick up from the FAST. I'd like to pick up 20whp peak and 10whp/10lbs atleast under the curve. That would be nice. I'll have to check into the FAST.

I'm curious though....what's the benefit of the 92 vs the 90? I have an LS2. Will it bolt right up? Lose lowend tq with it?

ExTurbo, did you pick up any HP at all when you put your FAST with just your CAM only?

I didnt dyno before the fast, but after the install and a new tune the car was a different animal all together...no more soft mid range, before i could stomp it in 3rd at like 3K and it would pull but not really feel fast until after 4K...now it pulls hard all over and doesnt run out of steam when you round 6K on the odo. I had mine ported by Tony Mamo along with my throttle body, and i upgraded my injectors at the same time. Most of the guys ive seen with Tony's intake pick up over 20hp and at least 10-15 (and ive seen over 20) ft-lbs of tq over the stocker. The only back to back testing i have is track times, and lets just say i went quicker in worse air. My previous best was 11.73 @ 119 in 40* negative DA air, and my new best is in my sig, and that was in 75* air with the a positive DA. Come this fall i expect at least an 11.4 and if i can get my 60' down an 11.3x at 120 at least.

can i make a suggestion.... to bad i will anyway.

Look for a used Fast on here. They are for sale pretty commonly. Also check ls1tech. Otherwise i would get the Weiand coming out, and it is coming out. by the time you get the heads, you will have the intake as well. Its $600, lreacving you more money ofr other goodies.
As for heads....
PMFL has a special on worked Darts. Thats what i got, an di love them.
or you could go with AFR's. The TFS heads are gonna get pricey, especially with the aftermarket Roller rockers. They are kick ass though.
Also, ETP works stock 243's something fierce, as does Cartek.

EDC (ed curtis) at Flow tech inductions sells all those types of heads, so it cant hurt to speak with him about your goals.

Personally, i would check the for sale section a couple times a day for what you want. You can find everything i listed in there at any given time.

You will need new Rocker Arms, the Yella Terras work great and are lightweight. You will also need longer pushrods.


You can definately get that much with a ported FAST 92 over your ported LS2.


Seth, have you run into any rocker arm/valvetrain geometry issues with the TFS heads.

I didnt dyno before the fast, but after the install and a new tune the car was a different animal all together...no more soft mid range, before i could stomp it in 3rd at like 3K and it would pull but not really feel fast until after 4K...now it pulls hard all over and doesnt run out of steam when you round 6K on the odo. I had mine ported by Tony Mamo along with my throttle body, and i upgraded my injectors at the same time. Most of the guys ive seen with Tony's intake pick up over 20hp and at least 10-15 (and ive seen over 20) ft-lbs of tq over the stocker. The only back to back testing i have is track times, and lets just say i went quicker in worse air. My previous best was 11.73 @ 119 in 40* negative DA air, and my new best is in my sig, and that was in 75* air with the a positive DA. Come this fall i expect at least an 11.4 and if i can get my 60' down an 11.3x at 120 at least.


I understand the difference in DA. But I would still expect a gain in mph. The ET in my opinion isn't relevant because that could have been just a change in traction.

I went 11.84@114.40 in 60 degree weather with a postive DA. Then I installed the ported stock manifold, replaced TR6s for new stock plugs and installed MSD wires. The car made less power on the dyno so we leaned it out. I ended up with 1whp more than the previous dyno. However, it was 30 degrees hotter outside during that dyno.

I then went to the track, on fairly bald nittos. Previous 60 foot was 1.68. Could not get better than a 1.76 this night. Ended with a 12.02@113.xxmph that night. It was in the upper 70s/lower 80s with humidity that night. So again, pretty much irrelevant data. However, I'd still expect to atleast match my previous mph if I gained power.

you also have to look at this when considering gears....... what are your plans for the car? you dont want to be going through the traps in overdrive. you want to be right round high rpm in 3rd gear. If you are doing just a H/C/I setup then i would say go with a 3.91 gearset. If you have really high hp mods for the future then u should probably consider leaving stock gear or even a lower one. Just my o2. I know a lot of people who have geared there car and it wasnt relative to there setup and they ran slower.

I understand the difference in DA. But I would still expect a gain in mph. The ET in my opinion isn't relevant because that could have been just a change in traction.

I went 11.84@114.40 in 60 degree weather with a postive DA. Then I installed the ported stock manifold, replaced TR6s for new stock plugs and installed MSD wires. The car made less power on the dyno so we leaned it out. I ended up with 1whp more than the previous dyno. However, it was 30 degrees hotter outside during that dyno.

I then went to the track, on fairly bald nittos. Previous 60 foot was 1.68. Could not get better than a 1.76 this night. Ended with a 12.02@113.xxmph that night. It was in the upper 70s/lower 80s with humidity that night. So again, pretty much irrelevant data. However, I'd still expect to atleast match my previous mph if I gained power.

True, there are tons of variables when considering 2 track times, especially when the weather is completely different...However matching my MPH with a 40* difference and probably a few thousand feet in DA (my previous best was in like a -1000 DA morning in october) is a big deal. The 60' times were within .015 of one another as well. I also know a couple of guys that were running that night and both of them were about 2 tenths and a couple MPH down from their PB's (one was a bolt on A4 Z28 and hes very consistant) So take that for what its worth. Ill run again this fall like i said and get a better comparo, right now its just words but i'll lower that ET and gain some MPH for sure.

I'd love to trap 119. Is your cam just a lot bigger than mine or something secret? Just wondering where the other 5mph comes from.

specs are right in my sig but its a mild cam at 231/234, 613/598, 112+1, its a custom grind but its basically XFI/XER lobes. so its definately bigger than the VXR3 but i think most of my MPH comes from weight reduction, skinnies, and the manual trans. The skinnies made a big difference, and are usually good for a tenth and maybe a MPH or more. and every 100lbs (the passenger and back seats are probably good for about 100 maybe a bit more) is good for a tenth and some MPH. ID be willing to bet its still an 11.80's car with a full interior, and id probably give up 1 or 2 mph with the extra weight.

I'm curious though....what's the benefit of the 92 vs the 90? I have an LS2. Will it bolt right up? Lose lowend tq with it?

+1 on that ?