.308 vs 300mag vs. 30-06 [Archive]

ameaglemike

08-05-2008, 02:24 PM

Well of course the .300 Win Mag has better ballistics, more power, and will reach out farther, but it also hurts a hell of a lot more after you've put a few boxes of rounds thru it. A good rule of thumb, if you're going to be hunting w/ these rifles, the .30-06 is the way to go. You can knock down anything in North America with one, with the exception of hunting in Alaska (and some times bears, but that can be done w/ shot placement). I have a Remmington 700 BDL .30-06 Stainless w/ a synthetic stock and I love it to death. I also have a 7mm Mag that I love too. The 7mm Mag is a little flatter shooting rifle than the .30-06, but you can get a bigger, heavier bullet w/ the .30-06. I've hunted in TX, NM, and CO and used both rifles in TX and NM, but only took my .30-06 to CO (didn't have the 7mm Mag at the time). And a .308 rifle is a great rifle (hence why military snipers, FBI, Police, etc use them as sniper rifles), but the .30-06 will give you more knock down power. That and you can go into any po-dunk hunting town and find .30-06 ammo.

DriveTOOfast

08-05-2008, 08:31 PM

Of the three rounds mentioned the 308 is the only round that will fit a short action. In a tactical rifle it is important because of the bolt length. When laying down and shooting you can run the bolt without moving your face.
The 30-06 and 300 Win Mag. both need a standard length action. If you try to run the bolt to load the next round you will hurt yourself unless you move your head out of the way.

As was already mentioned the 300 Win Mag. has better performance but also greater recoil and the cost per shot is higher. If you are building a hunting rifle that will be carried a lot and shot very little, the 300 Win. Mag. is a good choice.

If you will be practicing quite a bit the 308 will have better barrel life.

With respect to making 1000 yards accurately the bullet is the item that will make the difference. With the right bullet any of the three will make 1000 but with the wrong bullet none will. All three can be extremely accurate if a good quality rifle is used as a starting point.

BFEGTO

08-06-2008, 02:29 AM

is there another good caliber choice out there, as in cost and effectivness?

oodn-oodn

08-06-2008, 05:09 AM

cost effective high power rifle = 308 or 30-06.

.223 & 7.62x39 (SKS or AK ammo) is also relatively inexpensive, but they're lower power rounds compared to 308 & 30-06.

There are a gazillion other rifle rounds available, many with superior ballistics, stopping power, etc. But they're not going to match the availability & cost per round of those identified above.

Quantim0

08-06-2008, 07:11 AM

I built a nice AR15 to punch paper with in 5.56x45. The furthest range here is 600 yds and this rifle will perform well at that range. Plus I can reload easy for it, brass is readily available, as are quality match bullets.

DriveTOOfast

08-06-2008, 08:02 AM

is there another good caliber choice out there, as in cost and effectivness?

What are you looking for?

Hunting rifle?
The package is more important that the specific caliber.
Popping coyotes in Colorado is quite a bit different than hunting Elk in Colorado and both are different than shooting deer in the thick bottoms and swamps of Louisiana.

Zombie Rifle and high volume play rifle
Semiautomatic AR or AK in the cheap to shoot calibers of .223 or 7.67 x 39

Target rifle for a beginner usable to 1000 yards
Remington PSS in 308 caliber or Savage in a similar configuration

It goes on and on and on.
You gotta be at least a bit more specific with what you have in mind.

speeddemon

08-06-2008, 09:33 AM

remember 5.45x39 AK is also really cheap for a fun rifle :)
1080 rds for $120? forgetaboutit ;)

TLS_Addict

08-06-2008, 10:47 AM

I am a fan of the 300 mag over the other two. I reload my own shells and I do it for other people.

A 308 is great, and with the magnum shells that you can buy you get GREATER ballistics than a 30-06 with the same bullet. Also you can get them for the 30-06 which in turn return greater ballistics than the 300 win mag. However if you get the 300 win mag you load down to 308 ballistics and have LESS recoil than the 308 because of the case pressure. All are fairly close in price to shoot if you buy hunting rounds. All use the same bullets as well. I would rather have MORE than I need than not enough. Hence my reasoning for my 375 Ultra Mag in case I ever hunt a grizzly or need to stop a Peter Built truck.....lol

Depends on what you want. CZ makes a 1000 yard rifle, chambered in only 300 win mag. Hell I know a guy who uses shoots 100o yard meets with a 243. 9'' group for 10 shots is decent at 1000 yards.

Recoil of those three is very minimal in my opinion. My 308 was a cheap Stevens (Savage) and with even 180s didnt kick that bad, nore does my model 70 in synthetic stock kick that bad with 190s. Get a good pad, a port job, or a lead sled.....lol

BFEGTO

08-06-2008, 12:45 PM

i have an ar-15 for my fun gun now. this would be for target and some hunting, but mainly target.
also is a 26" barrel that much better than a 24" at those distances?

DriveTOOfast

08-06-2008, 04:15 PM

Presuming you go with a 308, the 24" barrel length will work as long as you use the 175 grain Matchking bullet.
They are available in either Black Hills or Federal Match ammo 175 grain loaded ammo or you can load your own.
So far as easy to shoot and utilize by a casual shooter I always recommend the 308 over about anything else. With a normal long range load utilizing 175 Matchking bullets and 44 grains of Reloader 15 (or the Black Hills loaded ammo) muzzle velocity will be a hair over 2600 fps and the bullet will stay fully supersonic to past 1000 yards.

If you go with the 300 magnum you will need the extra barrel length to get the most efficiency from the slower burning powder.

As a beginner or casual use rifle I generally recommend a Remington PSS because they seem to shoot very accurately. THat said, factory Remington triggers are pitiful out of the box. Some people adjust them and others just buy a $100 replacement trigger that works well.
Remember that group size doesn't usually translate directly. By that I mean that just because your rifle will shoot 1" groups at 100 yards doesn't mean it will shoot 10" groups at 1000 yards. In order to be effective on regular sized targets at 1000 yards you really need a rifle that is a tack driver in close. My 1000 yard rifle shoots little tiny groups at 100 consistently. I don't shoot on paper that often and very seldom do I shoot closer than 300 yards but when I do I expect the rifle to shoot cloverleaf groups. At a couple of the tactical matches I did earlier this year they did a "shoot the flyspeck" drill where you try to see how many 1/4" dots you can hit at 100 yards with 10 shots. At one match I hit 6 and the other I only hit 2.

Decent quality optics will cost you about as much as the rifle. My PSS has a $1500 Nightforce sitting on top because out past 600 yards the cheap optics just won't cut it.
At 300 yards and less just about anything that will maintain zero will do the job but the further out you go the more you need to figure on spending on optics.

To get a reasonable feel for what the calibers you are interested in will do, go to www.shooterready.com and play with the demo version of the Long Range Shooting Simulation.
There is no such thing as an "easy" shot at more than 1/2 mile but the simulation has drop and drift scenerio's for a number of situations from about 200 yards out to about 1500 yards.

BFEGTO

08-06-2008, 05:27 PM

wow, alot of info there, thanks you very much. the pss model you speak of is the 308 police model, right? what other kind of triggers would you suggest, jewel? is your pss your 1000yd rifle? i have seen nightforce scopes and they are very nice, but someone also suggested a millet long range scope, how are those? scopes from what i heard are about the most important things in long range shooting. also what kind of twist rate should i be looking for?

DriveTOOfast

08-06-2008, 05:45 PM

If you want to go with a PSS in 308 it will have a 26" barrel and the correct twist for the 1000 yard loading. Remington makes a similar rifle called the LTR which has a 20" barrel. Some guys can make 1000 yards with theirs but mine won't make it reliably. Velocity varies from barrel to barrel and mine is just a hair on the slow side.

One option you might have not considered is to buy a different upper for your AR.
I have an AR-15 in a caliber that will make 1000 yards with better authority than a 308.
The caliber is called 6.5 Grendel.
There is plenty of information here:
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/

Here is a video of a guy shooting steel with a Grendel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48W7NfyT6xg
The targets are steel chicken sized targets at 550 yards. On the last shot you can see the bullet trace going into the target, coming from the left side of the frame.

Since you are shooting 120 grain bullets which have less drag than similar weight 30 caliber bullets a 24" barrel will stay above the trans-sonic range for about 100 yards further than a 308 and have about 20% less wind drift and about 1/3 less recoil than the 308. Most beginners shoot better with my Grendel than with the PSS simply because less recoil makes the experience much more pleasant.

You can buy an upper without needing to fill out any additional FFL forms and use the lower you already have to complete the rifle.
Quality loaded ammo is available for between 60 cents and $1.20 per round, depending on specifics of the load and where you buy the ammo.
Buy an upper, magazines, and ammo to be up and running.

With regards to a scope, how much money can you afford?
Don't get caught up in the attitude that more magnification is better because a lower quality scope at higher magnification will just magnify the poor optics.
Military training uses a 10X scope to hit torso sized targets to 1500 yards.

Myself and the guys I shoot with found out a long time ago that you can usually shoot well with an inexpensive rifle and an expensive scope but not usually with a high dollar rifle and a cheap scope.

DriveTOOfast

08-06-2008, 05:57 PM

With regard to a scope I have a tough time recommending spending less than $700 for a long range rig. Leupold used to be good but in the last 4 or 5 years they have gone down hill with regard to quality. Two different one's have trashed on me but they do fix them for free when I sent them in for warranty work.
The only Leupold I have respect for is the MK4 M3 model which costs about $1200 and you are in Nightforce territory at that cost.
Nikon has good quality optics and they have a good reputation for reliability.
There are others but be real careful of listening to somebody who only shoots past 500 yards once in a while or who only shoots range queens.
If that is all you really need just pick something from the Midway catalog that is in your price range with the features you like and buy some $30 rings.

The matches I participate in are very tough on optics and most people run either Nightforce or Schmidt & Bender or US Optics. Nothing else seems to hold up well under field conditions and still have the optical quality needed for 800+ yards.
15X at the top end is plenty useful in quality optics. In fact you will be able to see stuff clearer with good optics at 15X than with cheap optics at 32X.

BFEGTO

08-06-2008, 06:06 PM

what kind of upper do you use for your 6.5? i have heard alot of good things about that round, except that its a little pricey. the ar-15 i have now is a spike's tactical. very well put about the scopes also.

DriveTOOfast

08-06-2008, 06:15 PM

For a Grendel Upper get one directly from Alexander Arms.
http://www.alexanderarms.com/
I have a 16" carbine that shoots good to 800 yards, a 20" heavy barrel that will make it to about 1100 yards, and a 24" precision upper that will supposedly make it to 1250 yards.
Haven't shot any of them past 1000 yards though. We were all real impressed that the 16" carbine made good steel hits at 800 yards.

Wolf MPT loaded ammo shoots decently well and you can get it for around 60 cents a round from AA. If you buy a small supply of the higher dollar AA loaded match ammo you will be good to go for as far as you can see.

If you roll your own, the Grendel is the easiest cartridge I have ever seen to get accurate loads with. It's parent cartridge is the 6mm PPC, a record holding benchrest cartridge.

The Grendel is only pricey when compared to a .223
In comparison to a 308 it is actually quite a bit cheaper per round if you shoot mainly Wolf MPT stuff.
If you roll your own the cost is about even between the Grendel and the 308.

BFEGTO

08-06-2008, 06:24 PM

good sight, but which uppers would be better on that page? are you referring to the ones that are about $2750.00?
if so i might just lean towards building another rifle and keep my ar as it is, for right now :).

DriveTOOfast

08-06-2008, 06:35 PM

Not hardly.
A good 16" carbine upper is $634
http://www.alexanderarms.com/siteshopper.htm?cat=1 5&item=65

The 20" entry upper is $857
http://www.alexanderarms.com/siteshopper.htm?cat=1 5&item=30

Try this one for $959
http://www.alexanderarms.com/siteshopper.htm?cat=1 5&item=63

or this one for $999
http://www.alexanderarms.com/siteshopper.htm?cat=1 5&item=64

Any of these will cost you more than a PSS but make a rifle that you will enjoy shooting a bunch more. Only down side is that because it is a semi-auto you will be tempted to "send another round" quite a bit more often than with a bolt rifle.
All the guys I know seem to prefer shooting my 16" cause it seems impossible for a person to hit a 12" diameter plate at half a mile with such a compact package. Guys who think hitting far targets with their 18 lb. tactical rifle is old stuff get a real "WOW' out of doing the same thing with what would normally be considered a 300 yard carbine.

In case you were wondering if I am BSing you I have attached my calling card.
2 1/2" dia. round paper target
8 shots from 600 yards

BFEGTO

08-07-2008, 02:25 AM

no, i did not think you were bsing me, but those are some great shots. looks like i have some thinking to do about which path i want to take then, hmmm.

nesikachad

08-07-2008, 03:56 AM

Inxnay on the 30 cal stuff, go 6.5-284 and laugh in the face of wind and condition change.

DriveTOOfast

08-07-2008, 06:58 AM

Chad, good to see you back.
How was the holiday?

Reason I wasn't talking 6.5 is he is a new guy who seemed to be looking for something off the shelf.
Pretty much limits the options.

The long range guys to beat around here are shooting high BC bullets in the 7mm WSM or Rem. 7mm SAUM.
Those things make 1000 yard shots seem down right easy.

BFEGTO

08-07-2008, 12:10 PM

is that tne 6.5gren or the 6.5 remington, or does it matter? i am new to long range shooting, but not exactly new to rifles. what about a 270wsm, how do they do for this type of shooting? a good friend of mine has one of those and it was a blast to shoot. i was army national guard and did quite a bit of shooting with them, but that was mainly .223.

chad what suggestions would you make for a rifle for someone starting on with long range shooting and reasonable priced. seems people go back and forth between the savage 110 and the remington 700pss as a good start for a rifle.

BFEGTO

08-07-2008, 04:37 PM

well, i was at the range today and was talking with a few of the guys at the shop and another round they suggested was the remington 7mm 08. what are your thoughts opn that round? how does it compare with the other rounds mentioned? what is the cost difference? thanks.

edit: it was either that round or the 7mm mag round. cant remember which one it was now.

TLS_Addict

08-07-2008, 06:00 PM

I have a 284 BLR Browning :-) 7mm bullets are cheap too!

DriveTOOfast

08-07-2008, 08:11 PM

I suspect the guys at the range were talking about one of the 7mm short magnums. Remington and Winchester each have their own versions that are slightly different. They might have even been talking about the regular 7mm Remington Magnum or the 7mm Ultra Magnum.

Unless you are considering spending the money for a semi-custom rifle you are looking at something off the shelf. This limits you a bit on caliber choices. It seems like Remington chambers one of their heavy barreled rifles in Remington 7mm SAUM but I haven't seen one first hand. Both of the 7mm's I have trigger time on have been full custom long range rigs that shoot good enough to make them worth the considerable cost to have one built. If you are looking in that direction Chad can build you one when he gets back in the country.

The 7mm short magnums can make a great shooting rifle and are cost effective.
You will get recoil a bit more than the 30-06 but nothing too bad.
Factory ammunition is pretty steep any time you put "Magnum" on the box so you had better figure on loading your own if you plan on shooting long range stuff with one.
Unless I missed an announcement and Black Hills is loading it these days you will be stuck with hunting ammo.
The only down side I have heard to them has to do with magazine capacity.
A 4 round magazine ends up only loading 2 or 3 short magnums due to the fat body of the case.

As a beginner factory bolt rifle I would still recommend the 308 over a 7mm Magnum due to good quality rifles and ammo and it being such a known quantity.
Be honest with yourself.
How far out are you really intending to shoot and how often?

If you say that you will not be doing any reloading and will normally shoot at 100 to 300 yards with shooting out to 600 yards a couple of times a year with the potential to shoot out to 1000 yards once every few years what you are really saying is that you want an economical 300 yard rifle that can shoot to 1000 in a pinch. Enter the 308 or the 6.5 Grendel.

If you say that you will reload your own ammo and have access to a facility that will let you shoot out to 600 yards every time you go to the range and might be able to shoot to 1000 yards a couple of times a year you will want a 600 yard rifle that can get to 1000 with some room to spare. In a factory rifle you would probably be looking at either a 300 Win Mag or a Remington 7mm SAUM.

If you get serious about shooting long range and are able to shoot to 1000 yards on every outing you are a lucky dog and I envy you. At that point you need to be looking at a full custom rifle in one of the really good 1000 yard chamberings.
6.5 x 47 Lapua
6.5-284
7mm Rem SAUM
7mm Rem Ultra Mag
300 Ultra Mag
etc.

BFEGTO

08-08-2008, 02:32 AM

very well put. i have 4 ranges withing an hour of me. 2 go to 100yds ( indoor ), 1 goes to 800yds, and the other is 1000yds. i am not sure if i will be doing any reloading, i currently dont own any of the equipment to do so, but i would like to eventually.

as for the remngton 700's what is the difference between the pss and the sps? is it mainly just the stock and bull barrel? is a pss more accurate than a sps with a 26" barrel?

here is a link to our 1000yd range
http://www.manateegunclub.com/facilities.html

nesikachad

08-08-2008, 02:44 AM

Ok, if you walked into my shop and asked about a 1K gun.

First question: Application?

Competitive, tactical, sporting, or just "fartin around"?

This also tends to narrow the caliber selections down a bit as well.

Competitive, just needs to be accurate and of manageable recoil.

Tactical, needs to be accurate and relatively flat shooting since conditions are rarely ideal. for "real" tactical it also needs to get the terminal side of the job done. Cold bore shots need to be spot on and above all else, it's gotta be nuts on reliable and brutally tough. Recoil should also be considered because 1K shooting is a perishable skill. You have to train and heavy brutal magnums will wear your ass out and that encourages bad habits.

Sporting, accurate, flat shooting, and terminal. Also cold bore shots need to be spot on. Recoil shouldn't be an issue since your not going to sit down and sling 200 rounds out in an afternoon.

(Most Varmint rifles being the exception however)

Farting around? Well, I can make a 22LR shoot a mile and a half. So, its all relative to what you want and can afford.

A Remington 700 from a "doner" rifle or a pawn shop is an excellent place to start. Toss the barrel and the stock and we move forward from there. A bargain price is in the 3K range. That'd be a single shot rifle in a non magnum caliber on a synthetic wood stock. It doesn't include glass or sights. A scope capable of delivering reliable performance for 1K shooting is going to cost right around a thousand bucks.

So, 4K and you've got a rifle and no ammunition.

Hand loading is next and that can get way out of control real quick in terms of costs/investment of tools.

Good luck buddy.

~NC

DriveTOOfast

08-08-2008, 06:25 AM

What Chad said on a custom rifle and reloading costs.

It sounds like with the facilities you have at your disposal you will be able to shoot to 1000 whenever you feel like spending the range fee. My suspicion is that there is already a group of shooters who make good use of the facility. Check them out and find a couple that shoot well and seem to be willing to steer a new guy in the right direction.

On the factory PSS -vs- SPS, I don't have a clue to the differences.
The big item to look at on the Remington is to see if the stock has the aluminum bedding block system embedded into it and if the rifle has a heavy barrel contour. If it has both of those things it will generally be a good shooter with 100 yard groups ranging between 1/2" and 1 1/2" depending on the individual rifle and ammunition.

BFEGTO

08-08-2008, 12:14 PM

lots of info. is there any sites you guys could recommend where i can do some reading on long range shooting to start understanding it a little better, and start doing product searching.

the gun show is this weekend and i might go stumble around there a bit to see what i might find to start with.

also what are the pros and cons of a long action vs a short action. what should i look for?

DriveTOOfast

08-08-2008, 01:28 PM

Long -vs- short action has to do with the caliber you choose and the length of the loaded rounds within that caliber.
Most calibers are specific to short actions or long actions in factory rifles.
Once you decide upon a rifle model and caliber in a factory rifle the important options pretty much go away.

I run short action exclusively because I am big into tactical shooting. Target shooters don't really care and often go with long actions even with calibers that could be chambered in short actions but that whole subject is getting you off into the world of custom builds and away from factory rifles.

Since you are going to the gun show take a look for a couple of specific rifles that would do what you want.

Remington PSS with a 26" barrel in 308 caliber.

Remington Varmint Synthetic in 7mm SAUM (might be called Sendero or VSSF or some other designation that they are using these days).

Savage Laminate stock Varmint with an accutrigger in 308 caliber.

Any of those choices will get you up and running out of the gate cause the Remingtons have synthetic stocks with aluminum bedding blocks supporting the action and keeping things from having funky pressure points and shifting under recoil and the Savage has a high quality laminate stock that is really solid and usable.

Figure on trying to buy at least 100 rounds of high quality ammunition. If you just buy 1 or 2 boxes at a time you can get into troubles with your zero and point of impact varying quite a bit from lot to lot of ammunition.
If you do go with the 7mm SAUM you will probably also be into reloading from the get-go. If you don't want to go there yet, by all means stick with the 308 and good quality match ammo.

BFEGTO

08-08-2008, 01:54 PM

thanks for all the info, i will probably re-read this about 10 million times before i goto the gunshow and be able to atleast sound like i know what i am talking about. i dont think i want to get into reloading yet so i will be mainly looking at the 308 in everything. thanks once again for all the help.

BFEGTO

08-08-2008, 04:01 PM

well i just got an interesting phone call from a friend. he was aaskign me if i knew anyone that might want his remington 700 sps in 300 win mag with a harris bi-pod and a leupold rifleman 3-9x40mm scope for $600? it doesnt have a bull barrelon it and not sure about the aluminum bedding block system.

what do you guys think? should i jump on it?

nesikachad

08-09-2008, 12:04 AM

A gun show would be your first mistake buddy. Seriously.

Long Range shooting is very specialized. From the way the guns are built, preparation of ammunition, how the gun is shot. It's all critical on an exponential scale.

I can put you in touch with key (meaning world class shooters) from virtually any place in CONUS.

I'd be very surprised if a gun show got you very far because thats typically NOT where long range shooters hang out. It's more akin to where Soldier of fortune groupies and the paranoid types waiting for the invasion lurk and mingle. Least thats been my experience anyway.

I'm talking about the guys who buy an old cop car and then drive around with a German shepherd hanging out the window.

I think I'm pretty well versed as a 1K shooter. I was an armorer for the US Team in 2003 during the World Championships. I also built the winning rifle for the 2007 World Championships in the Junior category.

I'm more than happy to help with any questions and I promise you the answers you get from me are based on experience and not the product of the latest edition of "Gunz and D-cup Commandos."

Good luck and good shooting.

BFEGTO

08-09-2008, 07:02 AM

trust me chad, i dont doubt your experience. i actually tried to send you a pm before i started this thread to ask a few things, but at that time you were not allowed to recieve pm's. i dont really have the money to do this all at once and wanted to go at little at a time, also working my way out in distance gradually. i was hoping to start with a rifle with a decent action, and as i get some more money, than change out the things i need to work as in barrel, stock, trigger, and any other upgrades needed. the gun show trip was mainly going to be for finding the donor rifle to start the process.

i currently dont have any reloading equipment or have ever done it. would i like to in the future, yeah. i think it would be something great to learn, and only help me more. that is why i have been kinda leaning towards a caliber thats more readily available and not as expensive, but still able to find quality ammo in that caliber.

as far as application for the rifle, it will mainly be for range shooting. if i ever get good enough i would like to enter a competition, but i know it will take a long time before that happens.

what do you think about the rifle my friend called me about? the info is in post #37 ( 2 posts up). how would that be for starting. i have shot a 300win mag before and i enjoyed it. but would it be good for what i am looking to do, or would the cost of ammo, and barrel life for that round not be a good choice? if not what, other rifle should i look at to start with that has a good action?

just wanted to say thanks once again for all the information and help from everyone.

nesikachad

08-09-2008, 07:17 AM

If you want a rifle more oriented for the range (prone shooting) you just gotta look in the right place bud. There are TONS of budget minded target rifles out there that shoot well.

Hell, a friend of mine won the TN state 1K championships with a tuned up 03 Springfield. He's done it on a Mauser action as well.

Given the choice, spend your money on two things. BARREL and SIGHTS. the best action in the world won't do much for you if the stick is a lemon or the scope doesn't retain zero.

Check out MT GUNS online. Mac Tilton is a hell of a guy. (Ever heard of Tilton Clutches? He started the company and worked for all the old school big names at Indy)

Mac is always peddling used target rifles for 1K shooting.

I can appreciate not being able to afford/have reloading equipment right away. Get to a match, make some friends. Offer to come over and help with prepping cases, weighing bullets, etc. Shooters are suckers for slave labor. You'll learn and you'll get to use some of their shit for your own stuff. All about networking.

There isn't much (for me anyways) thats more fun than stretching out prone at a distance in the early morning and cracking that first shot and having the spotter come up somewhere in the 10 ring. (I just wished it showed up in the 10 ring more often)

Where do you live in the US? What state?

BFEGTO

08-09-2008, 07:25 AM

i live right outside of tampa, fl. i will look into mt guns and do some more searches. what kind of barrel would be a good start, what length should i be looking at? from what i have read the twist will be mainly based on what caliber i choose. based on what i ave mentioned, which i know is pretty vague, is there any caliber choices you could recommend? the 308 seems like a good caliber with a good barrel life which and a good variety of loads.

nesikachad

08-09-2008, 07:27 AM

Sure, buy the gun and then try to sell it for more money.

If you want to shoot a lot, don't go for a magnum so early in the game. your shoulder is just going to get irritated. So will your wallet.

I advocate STRONGLY getting a 308. Set up for 175's it'll hammer for at least 2500 rounds before the barrel starts to act funky.

If you buy this rifle for $600, about the only shooting (competitive) that I know of you could enter is the hunter division in F class.

F class is relatively new. I call it "lazy Palma" or "Seniors Palma" It's basically a supported rifle with glass shooting the same course of fire as Palma guns. It was conjured up as a way to keep the older guys with not so good eyes active in competitive shooting. I've never done it, but make no mistake, it's not easy. competition is pretty tight. Still, it's gotta be fun because it's grown like a weed in the last few years.

If you enter and NRA sanctioned match, you compete within your own skill level. The first one will squat you as a "Master unqualified" it's basically just to get your feet wet and see where you stand. From there, you'll get your NRA classification card. You'll be either a marksman, sharpshooter, expert, master, or high master. High master is no joke. thats an aggregate score of like 97 or 98 percent.

Most guys end up starting out in the sharpshooter/expert area.

Each yard line is treated like a match, so there's prize money at each stage for doing well. Then there's the overall match win to go after as well.

All it takes is one time usually and you'll know if this is something for you. You'll either love it or hate it.

Most get hooked. it's cool. Especially with scoped guns cause you can watch your trace all the way to the target sometimes.

Good times.

Give Mac a call and see what he has going on the cheap. Might call Bruno's shooter supply also. If your close to Perry, they have TONS of deals going on commercial row right now.

Good luck.

nesikachad

08-09-2008, 07:36 AM

The barrel I strongly encourage people to buy is a Mark Chanlynn. That guy is the best barrel maker in the world as far as I'm concerned. I used one of his barrels on the rifle that currently holds the world championship for the US Junior Team.

His shop is called Rocky Mountain Rifle Works and he's in Longmont, CO. Mark is a hell of a guy and won't steer you wrong.

If I were buying this I'd set the gun up to shoot 175 grain bullets. That means either a Sierra MK, a Lapua Scenar, or a Berger VLD. No one seems to use the Noslers much.

Twist should be no slower than 1-12 although I'd probably crank it up to a 1-11 twist just to be safe. Your damn near sea level so your velocity is going to be a bit down from us mountain folk due to atmospheric density.

You'll need the barrel to finish at no shorter than 28". I'd go more towards 30".

For a chamber, have it cut for a SAAMI minimum spec match chamber. If you use VLD bullets from Berger, you may want to consider having a more specific reamer used. They run a bit different due to the long ogive and short bearing surface.

Your smartest bet would be to have Mark do the work for you. He's a top notch gun plumber and will do you right. Just mail him the rifle and he'll send it right back to your door. Totally legal to do.

One more thing. The cool part of a Chanlynn barrel. Mark uses barrel steel that is just a smidge harder than most others. Because he single point cut rifles his barrels he can get away with it. A button barrel has to be softer otherwise the tool will break and seize up inside the bore. Because they are hard, they tend to last quite a while. I've seen hard hitting service rifles go for over 7500 rounds. .223's shooting 80 grain bullets loaded scorching hot are hell on barrels, yet this thing ran like a champ.

The last thing, and I think it also has to do with the hardness, when the barrel does finally crap out and quit shooting well, it'll do it very suddenly. that is exactly what you want as a shooter. Barrels that slowly start opening up just screw with your head because you'll second guess everything before you figure it out. Having no confidence in yourself or your equipment on the firing line sucks.

As soon as my cell charges up, I'll post his number. Awesome guy! Tell him I said hello.