Need some advice on what to do about strut rub

[WickedGoat]

OK - today I attempted to put my Holden wheels on. The back 2 went on, no problems, accept for having to beat the hell out of the stockers to get them off. Now we get to the front 2...... and my fear became reality. Popped off the front passenger tire and sure enough, rub marks on the strut. So I put the tire back on and spin it, holding it securely to the hub...... no rub. So I am guessing that this is either happening on hard cornering or turns or so minutley that I can't even hear it. The tire was perfectly fine, no feathering or balding on the outer edge. So now I try my Holden rim...... put it on and hold it securely by hand and it just rubs on the strut. :banghead: :banghead: I am using the BFG KDW traditional tread 245 40 18 all the way around.

So my question is this....... Do I take it to the dealer and have them realign the car or so what they have to do to fix this or should I try 3/16 sized spacers to fix this myself. I know GTPprix used spacers and has said everything was OK. Just want some more opinions. Right now, I have the 2 Holden wheels on the rear, and 2 stockers on the front. It will get washed and covered tomorrow, so no worries about driving around with 2 different sets of tires.

A pic of the strut rub.....
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachment.php?attach mentid=14240&stc=1

And a pic of the rear tires on the car......
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachment.php?attach mentid=14241&stc=1

[miscreant]

OK - today I attempted to put my Holden wheels on. The back 2 went on, no problems, accept for having to beat the hell out of the stockers to get them off. Now we get to the front 2...... and my fear became reality. Popped off the front passenger tire and sure enough, rub marks on the strut. So I put the tire back on and spin it, holding it securely to the hub...... no rub. So I am guessing that this is either happening on hard cornering or turns or so minutley that I can't even hear it. The tire was perfectly fine, no feathering or balding on the outer edge. So now I try my Holden rim...... put it on and hold it securely by hand and it just rubs on the strut. :banghead: :banghead: I am using the BFG KDW traditional tread 245 40 18 all the way around.

So my question is this....... Do I take it to the dealer and have them realign the car or so what they have to do to fix this or should I try 3/16 sized spacers to fix this myself. I know GTPprix used spacers and has said everything was OK. Just want some more opinions. Right now, I have the 2 Holden wheels on the rear, and 2 stockers on the front. It will get washed and covered tomorrow, so no worries about driving around with 2 different sets of tires.

Well, IMHO seeing the wear of these tires when they do rub the strut, I'd have them aligned to - .1 to 0 camber and see if that helps. It will provide better wear for your new tires as well. Then if that does not help, get spacers.

[WickedGoat]

Well, IMHO seeing the wear of these tires when they do rub the strut, I'd have them aligned to - .1 to 0 camber and see if that helps. It will provide better wear for your new tires as well. Then if that does not help, get spacers.

I was hoping you would chime in...... What size spacers, max, would you go without having to do longer studs, or will I have to do them anyway? And where is a good place to get them from?

Matt

[miscreant]

I was hoping you would chime in...... What size spacers, max, would you go without having to do longer studs, or will I have to do them anyway? And where is a good place to get them from?

Matt
The alignment should cure most of the problem. Anything left should be easily taken care of with 3mm spacers IMHO. I think 3mm spacers do not require new lugs, but I personally have not experimented with spacers to know the exacts. I do believe that 5mm spacers really require new lug studs, and there again I am not well versed in where to locate (or the specs of) GTO lug studs.

[why2kmax]

let them do the fix, I had the same ammount of rub and not aproblem since in over 5,000 miles. See what happens after that

[OldER Goat]

when i dialed-in some neg camber (2.5 degrees) i had severe rubbing - so i installed 5 mm spacers as a temp fix. still running them after several thousand miles with no qualms / reservations. i probably won't change a thing - don't see the need to.
im short around two full turns on each lug with the spacer.

[WickedGoat]

WRP - I remember reading that thread prior to changing out my rims and tires. It sucks that you went thru all of that.

I think what I am going to do is call my dealer and talk with the service dept over the phone first and see what he says. If I can get them to align it, and if the alignment will not cause any handling issues, I will have some 3mm spacers on hand to use just in case. Hopefully this will resolve this. If anyone else has any ideas or comments, post them up. I will report my results hopefully by Saturday evening and with some pics.

[WickedGoat]

Good luck to you, ask them to show you the car on the rack and to provide a printout of the results. Front end alignment most likely won't be a warranty thing so take your wallet. I never understood if your 18" wheels were 40 or 48mm offset. I'd still like to know where to get the spacers and if they will interfere with the hubcentric rings that came with my TSW wheels.

Thanks to the patience of others I have learned a lot about what mine ought to be and is. Let us know. I think everyone should have their front and rear alignment checked and look for rubbing, even if they detect no pulling rubbing or uneven tread wear. One frightening notion is to consider that if you move the wheel outward and it still stresses, then what will be there to check the movement like the strut is obviously doing now? For instance a 3mm spacer might stop tthe rub, but then again it might just give the wheel/assembly 3 more mm to flex in. If so, when do you reach a point something breaks? Maybe we can wait until a front wheel comes off someone's car at speed. If they live perhaps they can tell us the answer to those questions.

They are stock Holden rims - 48mm offset. I hope they cover the alignment under warranty, the rub marks are on the strut and I took pictures of it. Here is a link for a place I am looking at for spacers......

http://www.ezaccessory.com/.sc/ms/rp/1117418696096 652/9/nc/ee/1/22

I don't think spacers will result in anything negative happening to the car, that is, if you don't go too big and get carried away. We will see what happens though and I will post my results as soon as I have them.

[traumadog]

I did not have that grove in the strut when I removed the 48mm offset stock wheels and put my 40mm offset wheels on the car but in all honesty I cannot really swear that rubbing didn't occur. I agree poor alignment probably created some problems but the majority of the rubbing and the groove occured with the 40mm offset wheels. That means something is flexing 8 mm or more on mine without the spacers. If I add them then the same thing will be flexing more than 8mm, closer to 11mm. Sooner or later you'd think something would just snap in two.

The 245/40/18's have a radius slightly taller than the stock 245/45/17's, so the rub point might be closer in a vertical dimension, than the 8mm lateral dimension. In that case, I'd think a 3mm spacer would help more. On a side note, the 18" size that Holden uses is a 235/40/18; isn't it?

Just my $0.02.

[WickedGoat]

The 245/40/18's have a radius slightly taller than the stock 245/45/17's, so the rub point might be closer in a vertical dimension, than the 8mm lateral dimension. In that case, I'd think a 3mm spacer would help more. On a side note, the 18" size that Holden uses is a 235/40/18; isn't it?

Just my $0.02.

I checked 2 different size charts not to mention 2 tire manufacturers posted numbers regarding tire diameter, width, etc. All showed that the comparison between stock 245 45 17 and 245 40 18 was that they were the same overall height wise, but the 18 was just a tad bit wider. The brand tire you choose can also come into play as well. It has also been stated the the BFG's, among others, can run a tad wider that other brands in the same size. And yes you are correct, Holden uses a 235 40 18.

WRP - I think Miscreant has pointed out that a better alignment will help most of the situation but not cure all of it. Why2kmax said that the proper alignment and replacement bolts helped cure his rubbing issues and he drives 500 miles a week and hasn't had a problem since the fix. Now what I find really funny is that you didn't have a problem with the stock tires but rather when you went to your new rims and tires. If you didn't see rub marks on your struts like my picture shows, then you were probably OK. This whole thing is kinda confusing but I am willing to bet that the severity of the issue is going to be shown on a car by car basis, meaning some may be ok, others might not be so lucky. Hopefully in the end, there is a permanent fix so that everyone can be happy and not worried.

[miscreant]

It may have helped. I guess I am trying to say that I drive my car harder with stickier tires than I did with the stock mounts and I am concerned the issue arose with some flex and stresses we aren't addressing, one that everyone says doesn't happen. I only put around 75 miles a day on mine and much of that is high speed freeway driving so I am probably not as up to speed as why2k. I had not heard about the replacement bolts, which bolts did he replace? I'll search, thanks for the heads up.
First of all, let me restate that I am NOT saying "it does not happen", I have said for all intents and purposes, it "should not happen". I''ve stated on other threads that I believe there are some inherent problems in the front suspension, most notably a horribly soft front strut rod bushing (this is not the top of the strut you are thinking about, but rather the front mounting for the lower suspension joint). I however have no idea if this creates vertical or horizontal flex at the hub. There could also be to much flex in the hub assembly where the wheel bolts to the assembly.

But wrp, I thought you just had them check the alignment and it was -1.2 degrees of camber when it was rubbing? Is this not true? This would contribute to rubbing big time. And additionally, since you said you had some decent miles on your stock tires, this -1.2 degree had to have happened recently, or your stock tires would have shown some pretty uneven wear on the inside on that side.

[WickedGoat]

WRP - here is Why2K's fix.........

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2186 5&page=3

[miscreant]

wrp, have you repainted the struts yet? I'd repaint the struts and drive it for a week or so then check it now. See if it really is still rubbing.

The bolts issue I believe is a placebo - they also did a realignment when they replaced those bolts, which IMHO is what resulted in no more rubbing. He said they replaced them "under a TSB" which is this:

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showpost.php?p=240441&postcount=9

Which has nothing to do with strut rubbing. IMHO, they misunderstood his problem or misunderstood the TSB, but in order to complete the TSB, the vehicle must be realigned. I believe the realignment and not the bolts solved the problem.

However, I do want to note with an aluminum alloy wheel, if it flexed 8mm, it would be permanently bent.

[miscreant]

When I was in the alignment rack with the independent guy we looked at those bolts. He mentioned grinding the bolts and oblonging the hole as something he had to do with other GM cars but was surprised that the GTO was actually well put together and he didn't have to do that. There was plenty of room to adjust the (camber?) with the ones that were in it. I just wondered why they thought replacing them would help? I'll go read that link.

You have precisely stated my point and concern on the wheels. Discount tire has sold me a set of wheels and tires that everyone says shouldnt rub but they do. I flat blacked the damaged area two times the last day and chalked the inside of the wheel before and after the alignement. Even after the alignment there was a stripe down the chalk on the inner wheel of the passenger side. If I use spacers, new bolts or anything else like realigning the front end to more extreme postive angles all I am doing is increasing the gap ie causing whatever is distorting to have to travel further before the tire hits the strut, presumably stopping the flex albeit dramatically.

The one thing I haven't done is twist the alignment completely to the positive side. After that my options seem to be narrowing down to put the stockers back on and run the car as a daily driver and forget having any interest in it until I can get rid of it. I think I am not going to bother you guys any more posting on this, I do appreciate all the comments. I've learned a lot. Thanks for all the concerned response guys.

First, I was refering to the TSB not having to do with strut rub, not necessarily the bolts being a problem or not being a problem.

Second, your tires are perfect for your rim width. The 245/40R18 KDW-NT is meant for 8.0"-9.5" rim width:
http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/assets/pdf/gforce_t a_kdw.pdf

Third, and lastly, I'm at a loss. If you were still rubbing at -.4 camber, you should have been BINDING at -1.2 degrees. That extra almost 1 degree of camber should push that tire much harder into strut to where you'd feel it rubbing.

I wonder what the alignment machine would say on your passenger side in 2 weeks. I wonder if your passenger side is not holding it's alignment.

[wrp]

First, I was refering to the TSB not having to do with strut rub, not necessarily the bolts being a problem or not being a problem.

Second, your tires are perfect for your rim width. The 245/40R18 KDW-NT is meant for 8.0"-9.5" rim width:
http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/assets/pdf/gforce_t a_kdw.pdf

Third, and lastly, I'm at a loss. If you were still rubbing at -.4 camber, you should have been BINDING at -1.2 degrees. That extra almost 1 degree of camber should push that tire much harder into strut to where you'd feel it rubbing.

I wonder what the alignment machine would say on your passenger side in 2 weeks. I wonder if your passenger side is not holding it's alignment.

Lets just let it go.

[WickedGoat]

Don't give up yet WRP - I called my dealer today and it is going tomorrow night for them to look at Thursday. As soon as I get an answer, I'll post up and hopefully it will work for you, if there is anything positive to report, that is. In any event, there has to be a logical fix for this. Don't give up on your car, I won't until everything is right with it.

Matt

[AmesGTO]

Made an offer on a 2005 GT tonight. We will see. I am not gonna take a bath on it even if I am afraid to drive it. Took it to the GTG kept it under 50 mph. Maybe tomorrow will be someone elses problem. Thanks though.

Dealers in DFW 4 for 4 disagree with everything posted here and have no clue how to fix it. I can make a payment on a Stang for the cost of rechecking the alignment once a week.
You are kidding me right? Call up the BBB and file a complaint. GM will take care of you.

Have you put the stock rims/tires back on to see what that does? Seems like the next logical step if you actually wanted to fix it.

[AmesGTO]

This quit being fun about two weeks ago. Enough GM for me unless the Ford guys are thieves. If so (if they reject my offer) I need a good suspension shop, one that has nothing to do with GM or any GM trained people.

The dealers want me to chase a fair wear and tear issue and that is tiring. I hope your car isn't experiencing the same problem.
No problem here, did you put the stock rims/tires back on to see what that does?

There is absolutely no way my dealer would ever tell me they couldn't do anything. I know this first hand from a tough problem with our first TB. My dealer, the BBB, and GM all did their part and the system worked like it should.

Really file a complaint with the BBB, it's easy and GM will take care of things from their end. If everything you say is true you can file a complaint with the BBB and either get GM to fix the problem or Lemon Law it. It's very easy; 15 min phone call and send them some documentation. GM will contact you from there.

[wrp]

No problem here, did you put the stock rims/tires back on to see what that does?

There is absolutely no way my dealer would ever tell me they couldn't do anything. I know this first hand from a tough problem with our first TB. My dealer, the BBB, and GM all did their part and the system worked like it should.

Really file a complaint with the BBB, it's easy and GM will take care of things from their end. If everything you say is true you can file a complaint with the BBB and either get GM to fix the problem or Lemon Law it. It's very easy; 15 min phone call and send them some documentation. GM will contact you from there.
Thanks for the suggestion.

[AmesGTO]

Thanks for the suggestion.
No problem, glad to help. You can file a complaint right on the BBB website, but GM should have listed a phone number for BBB right in the back of the manual. I'd call that number. You should know the current mileage and have the slips from the dealer from when you had repairs done/attempted. They will want all that and VIN number and problem description. Like I said it's easy to do if you really have a problem the dealer cant or wont fix. Someone at GM that can get things done will call you.

[miscreant]

Thanks for the suggestion.
It would also help to let them know that you know that a ton of GTO owners have filed complaints with the NHTSA for strut rub as well...

[wrp]

It would also help to let them know that you know that a ton of GTO owners have filed complaints with the NHTSA for strut rub as well...
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2743 0
Thanks.

[WickedGoat]

Got her back from the dealership today - they determined nothing was wrong with the front end. They did swap my 18" Holdens from the back to the front, bolted them down and said that the rubbing was very minimal, nothing that wheel spacers couldn't take care of. So, I am going to go this route for now and see where the complaints to the NHSTA go. I may call as well. Obviously from my pic, we can all see that something was touching there. I do suggest that everyone get a front rim off the car and check and see what is going on there.

[miscreant]

Got her back from the dealership today - they determined nothing was wrong with the front end. They did swap my 18" Holdens from the back to the front, bolted them down and said that the rubbing was very minimal, nothing that wheel spacers couldn't take care of. You're kidding me, right (rhetorical). They said all that in the same sentence? Nothing's wrong, but the rubbing (which isn't wrong) could be fixed with spacers (which a dealership shouldn't have to recommend)...Did they check your alignment?

[04IBM GTO]

My pontiac dealer called me today and said they reviewed my case and felt they need to do a wheel alignment. Two weeks ago they told me there alignment tool wouldn't fit on the stock rims without scratching them all up(flat lip and width issues). So someone must of contacted then for them to bother calling them out of the blue. Monday it goes in again should be interesting.

[WickedGoat]

You're kidding me, right (rhetorical). They said all that in the same sentence? Nothing's wrong, but the rubbing (which isn't wrong) could be fixed with spacers (which a dealership shouldn't have to recommend)...Did they check your alignment?

Nope, didn't check the alignment. I will try the spacers and go from there. If this doesn't work, then I will contact GM.

[miscreant]

Nope, didn't check the alignment. I will try the spacers and go from there. If this doesn't work, then I will contact GM.
But if your alignment is off, your tires will end up wearing prematurely like others on this board...

[wrp]

But if your alignment is off, your tires will end up wearing prematurely like others on this board...
My tires never wore but the alignment was definitely off at 16,000 miles. That is why I am concerned there was an event around the 7,000 mile mark or afterwards where the alignment got off base. Not sniping at you, just trying to agree while showing there might be a reason. And I agree they would have worn if I didn't catch it.

[WickedGoat]

But if your alignment is off, your tires will end up wearing prematurely like others on this board...

Yes, I am concerned about that. $300 for tires would be a shame to piss away. Have you had your car aligned to the better specs? If so, how do you like it compared to stock? I may end up doing this anyway. I need to find out what alignment specs are good for improving this..... (hint, hint)

[wrp]

Yes, I am concerned about that. $300 for tires would be a shame to piss away. Have you had your car aligned to the better specs? If so, how do you like it compared to stock? I may end up doing this anyway. I need to find out what alignment specs are good for improving this..... (hint, hint)
Miscreant and DMS are right on the mark as far as the relationship of the rubbing to alignment. And the alignment they recommend is within the stock parameters. Their point is the Pontiac recommended specs are wrong. I was totally stunned that my alignment was out, and out so badly. Camber seems to be most directly involved in the strut rubbing issue. My passenger side was at -1.7 while the factory specs are -0.7 to +0.3. Miscreant and DMS both point out that to really cure the problem you have to be more like in the -0.1 to + 0.3 range and DMS even further refines it recommending +0.125 period. You guys jump in and tell him if I am wrong.

I got mine to -0.1 on boths sides and that took a lot of effort but seems to have stopped the rubbing. I am flogging it now to see if the alignment slips out under driving stress. I believe my alignment issue was an event that occured somewhere around 7000 miles, most likely just after I put my new wheels and tires on the car. That would account for me baffling Miscreant by stating the damned new wheels with 40 mm offset rubbed and the OEM with 48 mm offset didn't. When I retried the OEM wheels and tires just prior to one of many alignment battles with dealers they did rub.

I am sure one of my fans will point out inconsistencies in what I am saying, I've been pronounced as stupid and not capable of modding cars but when I talk about alignment I am beginning to believe there could be several issues with alignment that can occur, hence some of us have strut rubbing while others have tire wear because different aspects of the alignment are affected in each individual case. For that reason my thoughts here may have no bearing on your issues save that alignment was out on mine and I don't know why. I would see if I could engage DMS for the total alignment specs he recommends. At one point I even considered setting up an appointment and driving to the Bay Area to do business with him but figured he is so frustrated at dealing with me he wouldn't let me in his shop.

By the way, with all the problems I had, I never had a hint of an alignment issue. No rubbing, scraping noises, uneven tire wear, turning issues, nothing. I told you already I am stupid, I BS'd Miscreant when he first told me it was alignment. Fact is when I caught the rub was within a few days of me starting all the pissing and moaning here. Perhaps the alignment was never really out long enough for the other issues to occur. Perhaps the Camber issue was not one that I would have noticed save for the strut rubbing marks. So adjusting it didn't really give me any sense of better at all. I was stunned at one post here that indicated the alignment made the car handle noticeably better.

I am sitting here feeling dumber cause I have only taken the Pontiac Dealer's word for it on the other settings. It would be nice to have a once and for all recommendation on each of the settings.

All my critics and self annointed post police who want to trash me remember, its like wrestling with a pig, you get dirty and he loves it.

[mrdoc442]

Miscreant and DMS are right on the mark as far as the relationship of the rubbing to alignment. And the alignment they recommend is within the stock parameters. Their point is the Pontiac recommended specs are wrong. I was totally stunned that my alignment was out, and out so badly. Camber seems to be most directly involved in the strut rubbing issue. My passenger side was at -1.7 while the factory specs are -0.7 to +0.3. Miscreant and DMS both point out that to really cure the problem you have to be more like in the -0.1 to + 0.3 range and DMS even further refines it recommending +0.125 period. You guys jump in and tell him if I am wrong.

I got mine to -0.1 on boths sides and that took a lot of effort but seems to have stopped the rubbing. I am flogging it now to see if the alignment slips out under driving stress. I believe my alignment issue was an event that occured somewhere around 7000 miles, most likely just after I put my new wheels and tires on the car. That would account for me baffling Miscreant by stating the damned new wheels with 40 mm offset rubbed and the OEM with 48 mm offset didn't. When I retried the OEM wheels and tires just prior to one of many alignment battles with dealers they did rub.

I am sure one of my fans will point out inconsistencies in what I am saying, I've been pronounced as stupid and not capable of modding cars but when I talk about alignment I am beginning to believe there could be several issues with alignment that can occur, hence some of us have strut rubbing while others have tire wear because different aspects of the alignment are affected in each individual case. For that reason my thoughts here may have no bearing on your issues save that alignment was out on mine and I don't know why. I would see if I could engage DMS for the total alignment specs he recommends. At one point I even considered setting up an appointment and driving to the Bay Area to do business with him but figured he is so frustrated at dealing with me he wouldn't let me in his shop.

By the way, with all the problems I had, I never had a hint of an alignment issue. No rubbing, scraping noises, uneven tire wear, turning issues, nothing. I told you already I am stupid, I BS'd Miscreant when he first told me it was alignment. Fact is when I caught the rub was within a few days of me starting all the pissing and moaning here. Perhaps the alignment was never really out long enough for the other issues to occur. Perhaps the Camber issue was not one that I would have noticed save for the strut rubbing marks. So adjusting it didn't really give me any sense of better at all. I was stunned at one post here that indicated the alignment made the car handle noticeably better.

I am sitting here feeling dumber cause I have only taken the Pontiac Dealer's word for it on the other settings. It would be nice to have a once and for all recommendation on each of the settings.

All my critics and self annointed post police who want to trash me remember, its like wrestling with a pig, you get dirty and he loves it.


Show some consideration for WRP, and stop ripping the scab off his just starting to heal wounds from the beatings he got over these alignment issues. He is doing reasonably well in recovery since his last encounter with the dominatrix. J/K

Doc

[WickedGoat]

Maybe I'll PM DMS or Miscreant to see what they think the specs should be. If they post up here, maybe it would be beneficial for all to see.

WRP - I can see you being angry about your car and then being angry and baffled by the responses you have received from your dealership and what you have been told here. It's a PITA when stuff goes wrong and you can't get it right on the first try. Just gotta play calm and try to clear the anger and let these guys try and help ya. Ignore the stupid comments by others - just adds fuel to the fire and will make you feel worse. I hope your car gets fixed right and you can be happy with it again soon. If I get the alignment specs and get the work done, I will be certain to post my results. My 3mm wheel spacers came in on Saturday but I have to now wait until next Friday night to try them out because my car went back to the body shop to have my fenders re-clear coated. Had to jump at that as the body shop is really busy right now. I will make a new thread posting my results with the spacers.

[miscreant]

Maybe I'll PM DMS or Miscreant to see what they think the specs should be. If they post up here, maybe it would be beneficial for all to see.
"Stock" specs are -.7 to +.3 degrees camber, and 0 to .17 degrees toe. However, this is from the monaro with 235mm tires. I think dms is recommending .125 degrees camber, and I'd say as close to 0 degrees as possible because some of these cars just can't get past 0 degrees for some reason.

[WickedGoat]

Thank you Miscreant.

BTW - saw you were a member of the Cadillac Forums.........

Check this out...........

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2794 7

[miscreant]

Thank you Miscreant.

BTW - saw you were a member of the Cadillac Forums.........

Check this out...........

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2794 7
Welcome. Yeah, I'm a moderator over on cadillacforums.com.

My old site: http://www.ctsowners.com

[wrp]

Maybe I'll PM DMS or Miscreant to see what they think the specs should be. If they post up here, maybe it would be beneficial for all to see.
Actually I'm pretty cool. One unmentioned guy here gave me a class on how to go in and sit down with the service manager and get the problem out on the table. I was pretty ripped cause I figured with all these people posting then dealers had been bound to see the problem. However, considering that they probably don't see a lot of our cars I think I realize they don't have all the answers at the tips of their fingers and sometimes you got to nudge them. I know from experience as a Chevrolet Mechanic in the old NAISE days that sometimes when you nudge them wrong you get kicked in the balls.

The first major milestone was when the 5th dealer called TAC and was told essentially the same thing Miscreant just told you. He nodded okay and they went to work on it. I'm still concerned that there seem to be a lot of alignment issues and cannot account for the lick that knocked my own out. Getting the camber to -0.1 on both sides was a step towards milestone 2, which is determining if the misalignments are just due to lousy Texas roads and my hard driving or if we may have some components prone to distortion under load that would allow the alignment to shift. For a week I drove under 55 and no rubbing. I've been flogging it hard for the past three days and will continue until about Thursday of next week then go check the alignment again. That'll be the sixth time in the last month or so at $70 a pop, I'm too brain addled to do the math but it has to be close to the price of a new cam. If the alignment is okay I'll just assume I can't drive worth a chit and start a regular program of checking it when I rotate tires.

If it has shifted I'll politely sit down with the service manager again, now that I've found my dealer, and we will work that issue spearately. My response to your question was sort of vague cause I didn't want to act like I am an expert, didn't want to try to advise you that my strut rub problem solution would cure your tire wear problem, but still acknolwedge that underlying both issues seems to be alignment.

The pig wrestling thing was mainly cause of all the times I been called stupid since this thing started. One guy gave me a class in mods which amounts to paying money and bolting things on and said I was stupid cause I couldn't bolt on wheels and make them fit which is probably true. On the other hand I took my wife for a ride the other day, the first time in a month as my confidence is beginning to grow back in the car. And I hope that guy checks his stuff like we've been doing cause I'd hate to see him hurt himself or others.

Not sure if they appreciate me recommending people PM them but both are top notch as is MRDOC442 who keeps me from blowing a gasket. I am very interested in your before and after alignment printout for my own reasons.