I checked my trans fluid today.

[speed_demon_freak]

I had some running around to do and I put on 15 miles. When I got home I decided to check my trans fluid and it was low. It was at the cold line on the stick. I poured some fluid in it and put almost a whole quart into it. As I was filling it, I would stop and cycle the trans through all the gears then add some more as it needed it.


So if you have an A4 you might want to double check the trans fluid when you get a chance.

[Holeshot]

I had some running around to do and I put on 15 miles. When I got home I decided to check my trans fluid and it was low. It was at the cold line on the stick. I poured some fluid in it and put almost a whole quart into it. As I was filling it, I would stop and cycle the trans through all the gears then add some more as it needed it.


So if you have an A4 you might want to double check the trans fluid when you get a chance.
Checked it today during oil change And its right on the mark.

3600 miles and third oil change.

[FLORIT]

When you said "cold line on the stick", I said to myself, "STICK? WHAT STICK?"... then I read on and see you have the A4. Whew! Scary! I thought I'd been robbed of a dip stick! :D

[Blitzu]

When you said "cold line on the stick", I said to myself, "STICK? WHAT STICK?"... then I read on and see you have the A4. Whew! Scary! I thought I'd been robbed of a dip stick! :D

Alright... call me retarded, but this is my first manual car. How do you check the fluid on the trans? I really don't get it.... anyone care to enlighten me???

[FLORIT]

I hate to make this post, 'cause my counter is at 666... bahwahahahahaha (evil laugh)

Anyway, for the M6 owners, this is a topic of some debate. Most folks say to check the tranny fluid level at the "fill hole" on the side of the tranny. (You'll have to lift the car and get under there so you can remove the "fill hole plug". BE SAFE!) A proper fluid level should reach the bottom of the "fill hole".

Other folks are saying to check the tranny fluid level at the "reverse gear sensing switch hole". Again, you'll have to get under the car to do this. What's confusing about this is that the fluid would have to be ABOVE the "fill hole" to reach this level.

I defer to those with a Service Manual (Old Goat, where are you?) for some "official" information.

[Old Goat]

Most folks say to check the tranny fluid level at the "fill hole" on the side of the tranny. (You'll have to lift the car and get under there so you can remove the "fill hole plug". BE SAFE!) A proper fluid level should reach the bottom of the "fill hole".
Other folks are saying to check the tranny fluid level at the "reverse gear sensing switch hole". Again, you'll have to get under the car to do this. What's confusing about this is that the fluid would have to be ABOVE the "fill hole" to reach this level.I defer to those with a Service Manual (Old Goat, where are you?) for some "official" information.

All Hail the Great Wizard of Helms!
(Pay no attention to that Old Goat behind the curtain)... :sneaky:

The 'Word' according to the Wizard of Helms: Volume 2,
Checking the Fluid Level, page 7-39:

Raise and suitably support the vehicle.
Disconnect the electrical connector from the backup lamp switch.
Clean any dirt from around the backup lamp switch area.
Remove the backup lamp switch.
Check that the transmission fluid level is even with the bottom of the fill / backup lamp switch hole.
Add Dexron III transmission fluid if necessary.
Install the transmission backup lamp switch in the transmission.
Tighten to 28 Nm (21 lbft).
Connect the backup lamp switch electrical connector to the backup lamp switch.
Lower the vehicle.
Ta Da!... :D

[FLORIT]

Well, I'll be dipped... from that transcript it appears to me that the "fill / backup lamp switch hole"... is the SAME DAMN HOLE. Well, duh. LOL

BTW, I'm doing an oil change this weekend, so I'll be sure to check the tranny fluid, too. I suppose it is obvious that the vehicle should be LEVEL when making this check... right? :D

[Old Goat]

Well, I'll be dipped... from that transcript it appears to me that the "fill / backup lamp switch hole"... is the SAME DAMN HOLE. Well, duh. LOL

BTW, I'm doing an oil change this weekend, so I'll be sure to check the tranny fluid, too. I suppose it is obvious that the vehicle should be LEVEL when making this check... right? :D

So far, nothing about this car has been obvious... :D But yes, level is the way to go, or at least as level as you can get safely. Now Florit, I said level first, not GET leveled.. :drink: :drink: :drink:

There is a separate procedure for a drain and re-fill, but we'll save that for later... ;)

[COSMO GUY]

A4 Tranny fluid level on stick full. 880 mi. Goat was cold , went through the motions of idle up/dn P-1 on the gears. OK so far. OLD Goat your alright. You sure know a lot
are you a GM mechanic??? Later, COS

[Old Goat]

A4 Tranny fluid level on stick full. 880 mi. Goat was cold , went through the motions of idle up/dn P-1 on the gears. OK so far. OLD Goat your alright. You sure know a lot
are you a GM mechanic??? Later, COS

Just an old shade tree hot rod mechanic with 44 years of skinned knuckles and a secret.....ssshhhhh!....don't tell anyone.....I buy the Service Manuals for everything I have owned and actually read them. Makes me look smart. Actually, I'm about as dumb as a stick! Who else would buy cars and dump gazillions of dollars into them to turn around later fall in love with a different one and sell their true love at a whacking great loss? I have specialized tools for cars that I can never use again. My kids are probably going to drag them onto the PBS 'Antiques Road Show' when I'm gone, where some idiot will probably misidentify them as a long lost butter churn crank from the 1700's....Wait, some of them are from the 1700's....Hmmmm...no, no, this IS the butter churn crank...ah, well... :D

[COSMO GUY]

Hey, That's great!!! Ahhh to have an American Love for the AutoMobile.. COS

[gto_in_nc]

Just an old shade tree hot rod mechanic with 44 years of skinned knuckles and a secret.....ssshhhhh!....don't tell anyone.....I buy the Service Manuals for everything I have owned and actually read them. Makes me look smart. Actually, I'm about as dumb as a stick! Who else would buy cars and dump gazillions of dollars into them to turn around later fall in love with a different one and sell their true love at a whacking great loss? I have specialized tools for cars that I can never use again. My kids are probably going to drag them onto the PBS 'Antiques Road Show' when I'm gone, where some idiot will probably misidentify them as a long lost butter churn crank from the 1700's....Wait, some of them are from the 1700's....Hmmmm...no, no, this IS the butter churn crank...ah, well... :D

LOL!!!

[Rob]

You should be going by the Fill plug. All the T56's I've been around since they have come out have gone by the Fill plug. Never heard of filling it by the switch. That doesn't make any sense. I'm guessing the Helm might be in error on this.

How much fluid does the owner's manual and Helm say it holds? Are they two different quantities? If they are the same, the Helm is wrong.

Its been quite a few years since I changed fluid in the T56 but I remember it being 4 qts or so.

[Old Goat]

You should be going by the Fill plug. All the T56's I've been around since they have come out have gone by the Fill plug. Never heard of filling it by the switch. That doesn't make any sense. I'm guessing the Helm might be in error on this.

How much fluid does the owner's manual and Helm say it holds? Are they two different quantities? If they are the same, the Helm is wrong.

Its been quite a few years since I changed fluid in the T56 but I remember it being 4 qts or so.

Guys and Gals, this is too important for you folks having M6's for me to dice words. I do not intend to offend. Please don't take it as such. Despite being proofread by two different people, and using slightly different terminology, (Helms - page 7-39, fill / backup lamp switch hole, Owner's - page 5-23, reverse light switch hole) the meaning is pretty plainly the same hole and level. Use any other hole as a reference point, and you are going to bork up your transmission. On fill volume/capacity, Owner's says 4.4 quarts, Helm's says 4.6 quarts....regardless, both say fill the transmission to the threads of the reverse or backup lamp switch hole.

When it comes to determining errata or relevance, I am ALWAYS going to defer to the $120.00 Helms Factory Service Manual the Dealer's use, not the free book they give away with the car. The Helms took many months longer than the Owner's to come out and has the freshest info. Any changes will come out in a Notice to Dealer's, like the new torque specs for the rear chassis biscuit center bolt for the Thunk fix. Whether it holds 4.4 or 4.6 quarts is irrelevant for the purpose of filling it the way BOTH books say.

[gto_in_nc]

Excellent! Thank you very much, Old Goat!

[Old Goat]

I have an 'Urgent' request going in to Pontiac Customer Assistance requesting clarification on which book to defer to, and clarification on the M6 fill issue and will post the responses if and when they respond. Does anyone else think perhaps I should start a Helm's Manual thread? It would seem to be logical. We could all post questions and responses there. I am going to urge EVERYONE to order a set of the manuals in paperback, it's only $120.00, less than four tanks of gas. Just consider what you are risking. Additionally, the Helm's has pictures! A welcome aid for those like myself who might be intellectually challenged, and a confusion reducer when trying to determine EXACTLY what they are referring to. I will ask my Dealer to cc me any changes to the books, and enter them in mine for reference. If he will. That info would then be available to us all on request if interesting, and I would post forthwith if critical. All this presumes DY's kind permission, and the possibilty of making it a 'sticky' so we'd always have it. I think it would be far better than having such information helter-skelter through the threads. Your thoughts please?

[FLORIT]

...it's only $120.00, less than four tanks of gas.

"Only" $120.00 is a lot for me right now, 'cause I have irresponsibly dumped all my "liquid assets" into this GTO. On the other had, "less than four tanks of gas" sounds reasonable to me, so, guess what? I'm gonna order the Service Manual. "They saw me coming."

[gto_in_nc]

I think a "Helm's Manual" thread would be fabulous!!! I will buy my own copy in the not-too-distant future but probably not within the next couple of months and the details to be gleaned therein are fabulous.

[Rob]

Old Goat, good idea. I have many Helm manuals from all the cars I've had. They are of incredible value and the info in them is great.

Thanks for taking the initiative in this. To most, it won't matter as the fluid will never get changed. But the ones that'll change it yearly or regularly, it will be important.

[Rob]

Also, maybe try Dal Slabaugh for the manuals. The last set I bought were for the WS6 and were only $75 in 96. They were over $100 if ordering directly from Helm. Maybe worth a shot to save some money :)

[thinker]

the reverse light switch hole is 2 quarts above the fill hole.

[Old Goat]

the reverse light switch hole is 2 quarts above the fill hole.

Perhaps the best way to feel re-assured while we wait for the CAC answer (although I really don't see a conflict) is to drain one and measure the run-off. It should be 4.4 to 4.6 quarts filled to the backup light switch hole, according to both books. Don't forget to put it back... ;)

[Red Devil]

Old Goat i see no reason why we can't make a sticky for the Helms manual. If you want to make one i will make it a sticky.

[Old Goat]

Old Goat i see no reason why we can't make a sticky for the Helms manual. If you want to make one i will make it a sticky.

Please, when you get a chance. When you do, I'll try and pull links to all the manual references in the other threads, maybe tonight until done?

[Rob]

Here's something from the T-56 service manual, its a couple of years old. Section 1-1, page 3:
SECTION 1
T56 ON-VEHICLE SERVICE AND
TROUBLESHOOTING
1-1 MAINTENANCE
1-1-1. GENERAL. The only periodic maintenance
required for the TREMEC T56 Transmission is to maintain
proper lubrication.
1-1-2. LUBRICATION SCHEDULE. Refer to the
Vehicle Owner’s Manual or Service Manual.
CAUTION
Excessive temperatures may break down the
transmission lubricant (refer to vehicle service
manual for maximum allowable temperature).If there
is reason to believe that the transmission has been
subjected to temperatures exceeding 275° F, change
the lubricant immediately.
1-1-3. APPROVED LUBRICANT. Most T56
transmission models use DexronÒ II automatic
transmission fluid. Refer to the vehicle owner’s manual or
service manual for lubricant specifications.
CAUTION
Do not mix different brands or types of transmission
lubricant. DO NOT USE GEAR OIL IN THE T56
TRANSMISSION SINCE THIS MAY DAMAGE THE
BLOCKING RING MATERIAL.
1-1-4. CHECKING LUBRICANT LEVEL. Proceed as
follows:
NOTE
To check or drain the lubricant, the transmission
should be warm. This is best done shortly after
engine shutdown.
a. Wipe fill plug (2) and surrounding area clean.
b. Remove fill plug (2).
c. When transmission is full, lubricant will just drip out fill
plug opening.
d. Add approved lubricant if required.
e. Install fill plug (2) and torque to 20 lb. ft (27 N.m.)
1-1-5. CHANGING LUBRICANT. Proceed as follows:
a. Wipe drain and fill plugs (1 and 2) and surrounding
areas clean
b. Place suitable container under transmission
c. Remove drain plug (1).
d. Remove fill plug (2).
e. Allow all lubricant to drain.
f. Install drain plug (1) and torque to 20 lb. ft. (27 N.m).
g. Add lubricant through fill plug opening until lubricant
just begins to drip back out of opening.
NOTE
The amount of lubricant required varies from model
to model. Refer to the vehicle service manual for
transmission capacity.
h. Install fill and torque to 20 lb. ft (27 N.m).
1-2. TROUBLESHOOTING
1-2-1. GENERAL. In the event of operating difficulty,
it is recommended that the transmission (engine) be
shut down. In most cases, to accurately pinpoint the
source of trouble, it may be necessary to remove
and disassemble, or partially disassemble, the
transmission. Specific inspection procedures for
detail parts of the transmission are provided in
Section 3.
WARNING
Towing:
Drive shaft MUST be disconnected vehicle is to be
towed. Failure to do so WILL result in internal
transmission damage.
1-2-2. TROUBLESHOOTING CHART. Table 1-1 lists
troubles which may be encountered along with possible
causes and remedies.
1-1

[Old Goat]

All Hail the Great Wizard of Helms!
(Pay no attention to that Old Goat behind the curtain)... :sneaky:

The 'Word' according to the Wizard of Helms: Volume 2,
Checking the Fluid Level, page 7-39:

Raise and suitably support the vehicle.
Disconnect the electrical connector from the backup lamp switch.
Clean any dirt from around the backup lamp switch area.
Remove the backup lamp switch.
Check that the transmission fluid level is even with the bottom of the fill / backup lamp switch hole.
Add Dexron III transmission fluid if necessary.
Install the transmission backup lamp switch in the transmission.
Tighten to 28 Nm (21 lbft).
Connect the backup lamp switch electrical connector to the backup lamp switch.
Lower the vehicle.
Ta Da!... :D

Okay! We got a half a reply! Going by this, use whichever fill hole on the M6 that allows you to add 4.6 quarts. According to this, any less fluid is too low.

Dear Mr. Nolan,

Thank you for contacting the Pontiac Customer Assistance Center. We are concerned to hear about the issues that you have experienced with the manual transmission capacity on your 2004 Pontiac GTO. We understand this can be very frustrating and we would like to assist you.

The correct capacity for the manual transmission is 4.6 quarts. Your owners manual has a typo in it, I apologize for any inconvenience that may have caused.

Thank you for giving us this opportunity to assist you.

We have documented your concern under Service Request #1-215479606.. Please note my work schedule: Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday. If you need assistance sooner then I am able to provide please call our Pontiac Customer Assistance Center at 1-800-762-2737 (Pontiac), and let the representative know you prefer to have them assist you. Customer Relationship Managers are available Monday through Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m Eastern Time.

Please don't hesitate to contact us again if you need further assistance.

Sincerely,

Stephen Hill
Customer Relationship Manager
Pontiac Customer Assistance Center

For more information regarding the maintenance and care of your vehicle, please visit www.Pontiac.com/owners. This free online service offers vehicle and ownership-related information and tools tailored to your specific Pontiac.


#Subject=RE: Urgent request for clarification

-----Original Message-----
From: John Nolan
Sent: 5/7/04 11:47:26 AM
To: cac@pontiac.com
Subject: Urgent request for clarification

There has apparently been some confusion and consternation caused by differing terminology and capacities for the manual transmission, and determining the proper the proper reference/fill hole to check and add Dexron III to the Tremec manual 6-speed.

The Owner's Manual refers to the process on page 5-23, and the capacity of 4.4 quarts on page 5-92.

The Helms Service Manual refers to the process on page 7-39 and the capacity of 4.6 quarts on page 7-5,

Could you nice folks clarify this for us please, the correct 'fill/check' hole, and capacity?

[FLORIT]

Well, while I had my GTO on jack stands to change the oil and clean underneath, I decided to go about checking the transmission fluid level. I found the 'fill plug' and the 'drain plug' and the 'reverse light switch'. Since the 'reverse light switch' is higher than the 'fill plug', I figured I would check there first and if it was too low, then I'd check it at the 'fill hole'.

I'm a computer nerd, not a mechanic. Since a socket and rachet won't fit up in there to remove the switch, I tried to remove the 'reverse light switch' with a 10X Oscilloscope Probe, a Digital Multi-Meter, and a floppy disk. No joy. I guess I'll have to go buy an open-end wrench. (Son of a BEATCH, I JUST realized I could have used a CRESCENT WRENCH, which I DO have.)

To remove the 'fill plug' and 'drain plug', however, requires a pretty big allen wrench, which I DON'T have (yet.)

Now, finally, here's my question... regardless of which hole I use to add fluid, if required, how do I get it in there? No way can I just pour it in straight from the bottle. There is not nearly enough room. My only guess is that I need to run a "fill hose" from the engine bay to the proper hole and then use a funnel.

Who has a better idea?

[thinker]

Sorry florit, I had to use the long hose method. If you use the top off a gear lube bottle it will screw on the auto trans fluid bottle and into a rubber trans line . This way you can squeeze the bottle for pressure.If you don't have to add much fluid you can do this from under the car with a short hose but you can only get about half the fluid out of the bottle.Then switch bottles if you need more.

[Rob]

I did the long hose method. But can't you fill the trans by taking the shifter off? I could've sworn people used to that when they changed shifters. Would make it nice and easy if you change the shifter and fluid at the same time.

[Old Goat]

Old Goat i see no reason why we can't make a sticky for the Helms manual. If you want to make one i will make it a sticky.
Made one in the lounge R.D. :thumbs:

[briandors]

Totally different car, but I fill my manual trans on my SVT Contour by using a "siphon pump". Local auto parts store, cost like $2. has a long tube at both ends, and a squeeze-to-pump area in the middle. Stick one end in bottle which is on the floor, thread the other end into tranny, and just squeeze away. By the miraculous physics of siphon-power ;-) fluid goes up and in! :)

[dede]

Holden techline LITERS

http://www.ls2gto.com/forums/attachment.php?attach mentid=12926&stc=1

[spd98]

When it comes to determining errata or relevance, I am ALWAYS going to defer to the $120.00 Helms Factory Service Manual the Dealer's use, not the free book they give away with the car. The Helms took many months longer than the Owner's to come out and has the freshest info. Any changes will come out in a Notice to Dealer's, like the new torque specs for the rear chassis biscuit center bolt for the Thunk fix. Whether it holds 4.4 or 4.6 quarts is irrelevant for the purpose of filling it the way BOTH books say.

My issue is that out of 4 helms manuals I have seen for various cars they all have had something wrong in them. Kind of left me a little leary of them. I don't think any dealer uses helms anymore. Thier all using SI. And SI has way more info than helms.

[Cyclone05Goat]

I know my helms for my Impala has wrong info in it also.

[dede]

SI Document ID# 1210021
2004-2005 Pontiac GTO
Lubrication Specifications
Capacities Application
Metric
English

DEXRON® lll
4.4 liters
4.6 quarts



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[blackgoatofthefamily]

Try using a suction pump and a hose. Buy it from a parts store. Suck up the juice and then squirt it in the tranny. Remove the fill plug and also the reverse switch, fill from the reverse hole until fluid comes out of the fill hole. That way you know you have enough.

[blackgoatofthefamily]

Try using a suction pump and a hose. Buy it from a parts store. Suck up the juice and then squirt it in the tranny. Remove the fill plug and also the reverse switch, fill from the reverse hole until fluid comes out of the fill hole. That way you know you have enough.