Terrible inner tire wear! help!

[TrakDay]

Well when I had my stock tires replaced with my Nittos I noticed all for stockers were in terrible shape on the inside of the wheel. Does anyone have any idea what might be wrong. I am going to take my car in for an alignment and already contacted my Pontiac dealership about my issue. He said if I could bring the tires in they would take a look and par for my new tires I had put on. Eiether way it isn't good. I need to know if this is a common problem or if maybe my alignment is just off. 2 of my tires are pretty much shot on the inside, other 2 don't look bald, but not good either.

Any thoughts on this? Its not rubbing against anything. the wear is just very excessive. The wear bar has barely been reached on the outside of the tires, but on the inside I probably had about 1000 more miles before cords would show through! any ideas?

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachment.php?attach mentid=14459

[miscreant]

Well when I had my stock tires replaced with my Nittos I noticed all for stockers were in terrible shape on the inside of the wheel. Does anyone have any idea what might be wrong. I am going to take my car in for an alignment and already contacted my Pontiac dealership about my issue. He said if I could bring the tires in they would take a look and par for my new tires I had put on. Eiether way it isn't good. I need to know if this is a common problem or if maybe my alignment is just off. 2 of my tires are pretty much shot on the inside, other 2 don't look bald, but not good either.

Any thoughts on this? Its not rubbing against anything. the wear is just very excessive. The wear bar has barely been reached on the outside of the tires, but on the inside I probably had about 1000 more miles before cords would show through! any ideas?
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2753 5

For some reason, the alignment on our cars is way out from the factory.
Seems you need ~0 degrees camber to get even decent wear. Hoe this helps.
TAC knows about this, BTW.

[why2kmax]

how far did you run those tires without noticing they were wearing funny. I removed mine after 3 months and 6,000 miles to rotate and noticed the same type of wearbut not nearly as bad. you guys gotta pay attention to more than the paint and the motor. :)

check the tsb's on strut rub and talk to DMS. I think he has specs that will work well.

[TrakDay]

I rotate my tires every 3k miles! the wear was never bad until I took them off and that was 4k miles... Very odd, I don't remember seeing my tires wearing on the inside like that. and I rotate mine myself at the shop.

[2Cool]

Toe or camber, or both, are out of whack. You need an alignment. I get one on every new car soon as possible, after having my Evo VIII delivered with 3/4" toe in.

[TrakDay]

I wil be taking it in for an alignment and everything else thats necessary. I need to get this thing set up before the Procharger arrives and I go to the track!!!

[rushhour]

Mine look fine so far with 6K on them - that being said once the new konis are put in I will of course take it to a local suspension shop to have everything realigned just to make sure.

[pruettfan]

I have 10k on my car and have similar but less severe wear on the fronts. I generally rotate every 10k rather than 6k. I ordered new lug nuts and when they come in I will rotate and take pics to post for comparison.

Tom

[ChrisMcGTO04]

Had mine into the dealer today to check for tire/strub rub and alignment. No strub rub and alignment was fine, although it is damn close. I wanted to have it on record just in case something does go bad. My tires seem to be wearing fine on the inside of the tire as well. In fact, the whole tire is wearing pretty damn good! Seems one GTO is fine, another one is all messed to hell.

[04IBM GTO]

My car goes in Monday for an alignment for the "strut rub" TAC

[wrp]

What struck me in all this was how fast things went south on the alignment. I had no wear issues at all and noticed the strut rub first. After a heck of a fist fight with Miscreant and others who were right all along I discovered my camber had gone as far as -1.2 on the passenger side and was pushing spec on the driver's side. It must have happened sometime between 7000 and 10000 miiles, again no tire wear, no pulling, no shaking nothing to indicate a problem. I noticed the strut rub on a rotation. At first I felt the stock tires hadn't rubbed and that I had an aftermarket wheel/tire problem but when I put the OEM wheels back the rubbing was present. Moving the alignment towards positive seems to have helped though I had to go through 5 dealers to get someone to do it, that comment about TAC is very important. You play that card the service managers seem to listen. I played it on the 5th dealer and he and I sat down and called them. I seem have a problem getting mine to where DMS recommends +0.125 but I do have them to -0.1, a hell of a lot better than -1.2. I am flogging it for a week to see if the alignment holds.

Problem with dealers is they don't work on a lot of GTOs and the specs say something like -0.7 to +0.3 when anything more than -0.2 to -0.4 has the rub problem. Not sure on the tire wear issues as I consider myself lucky to have caught the problem before that happened. They whip it up on the rack and if it isn't beyond -0.7 they say hey this car is fine. If you don't ask for a printout they just tell you it is in spec. LOL we could write a book on trying to communicate this chit. What do you think Miscreant "Service Department for Dummies?"

[why2kmax]

wow, crazy that people are having the alignment go south suddenly like that. Think I better pull mine just to check more often.

[wrp]

wow, crazy that people are having the alignment go south suddenly like that. Think I better pull mine just to check more often.
I'll probably check mine every rotation as long as I own it. There were two possibilities. I hit something or it went out on its own. We haven't figured it out yet and wife is homefree cause she only bends up her Honda.

I am still concerned about what they fixed on yours. The bolts they replaced are bolts the alignment guy twists on I think.

[ROKS ROKET]

I keep reading about this "rubbing" and "alignment" problems. It's got me checking my front tires once a week or so. I haven't seen any problems yet, and I have close to 5k miles on the car. I had my tires rotated about two weeks before I got my Nittos, so when the took off my rear tires, that were on the front recently, I saw NO problems at all with them. I guess because I don't drive the car everyday might have something to do with it, and when I do drive it, I'm not going on roads that are filled with potholes or are in disrepair. this may or may not have anything to do with the front end going out of alignment. I do notice however, that there is very little clearance between the tire and the top of the strut tower, but to this date I have no rubbing issues. (fingers crossed)...............

ROK

[themanatuf]

I had very bad tire wear right in the center of the treads. The outter walls were good, but the center was bald. I'm assuming this was due to over-inflation. I recently put new sneaks on my goat and like Rok, I have VERY limited clearance between the tire and the strut tower. I took it in to make sure there was no rubbing and they assured me there was none, just a small clearance. The service guy also told me what everyone else has said about the alignment being off sometimes. He also said if you rotate your tires yourself (like me) you might run into some of those problems. These comments were from Dick Norris where we both bought our cars, if that means anything. Hope you don't have these same problem with the new tires!

[dms]

The majority of the GTO's I hae checked, and all of them that are driven hard, have rub with the stock tires. this is due to a lot of negative cambers. Tac wants you to get the front cambers as positve as possible and yet stay within specs. With -1.0 tp -1.5 negative cambers, and "playing" especially with tire pressures under 35PSI cold, you could do this to your tires on a fun afternoon of autocrossing.

dms

[miscreant]

I'm beginning to think that the excessive play in the front strut rod bushing (or something else) is making the alignment go out quicker on these cars. Many people have excellent tire wear and then all of the sudden start getting bad tire wear from a bad alignment. Anyone check with the aussie guys if the monaro's are prone to alignment problems?

[Doc GTO]

I rotate my tires every 3k miles! the wear was never bad until I took them off and that was 4k miles... Very odd, I don't remember seeing my tires wearing on the inside like that. and I rotate mine myself at the shop.

Looks like toe out. I had the same so when I dropped the car with the new springs I had them increase the toe in slightly to help tire wear. With negitive camber you need to bring the toe in to compensate the wear.

[swmn]

My tires looked good all around at 24,528 miles on 04/08/05. 05/17/05 @ 28,458( next oil change) all four are showing significant wear as illustratedpost one this thread, much worse on the passenger side. Off to read the TSB and learn about the TAC, I am at 32k and change now on 6/11 in LA instead of NC.

Wonder how far Iwill get with a dealer who hasnever seen me or the car before...
S

[mmciau]

I'm beginning to think that the excessive play in the front strut rod bushing (or something else) is making the alignment go out quicker on these cars. Many people have excellent tire wear and then all of the sudden start getting bad tire wear from a bad alignment. Anyone check with the aussie guys if the monaro's are prone to alignment problems?

miscreant,
I don't have the Monaro alignment data at my finger tips but it may be worth comparing the GTO data to see if it is identical with the Monaro data. If it is, I think GMNA have missed an important factor.

We in Australia drive on the LH side of the road with generally (for 90% of the driving time) with a 160lb person in the RH front seat.

With our LH side of the road camber and the driver in the RH front seat, the alignment figures for Australia would reflect that set up.

Your situation is a "mirror" - RH side of the road and the LH front seat occupied for generally 90% of the driving time.

If the GTO's are using the Monaro settings, then I'm sure it will reflect in road tracking and tyre wear and general driving response.

As an illustration, we had a 64 Chevy Belair and the Australian spring maker had the ride height adjusted for Australian road camber and "one up" driver!! The car looked "level" to the road.

It might be worth looking at the spring part numbers for the four corners and see if they are the same as the Australian numbers.

When comparing the Monaro and GTO are the relevant spring numbers in the same "corner" or opposite corners?

Hope this may help!

Mike :cool:

[miscreant]

miscreant,
I don't have the Monaro alignment data at my finger tips but it may be worth comparing the GTO data to see if it is identical with the Monaro data. If it is, I think GMNA have missed an important factor.

We in Australia drive on the LH side of the road with generally (for 90% of the driving time) with a 160lb person in the RH front seat.

With our LH side of the road camber and the driver in the RH front seat, the alignment figures for Australia would reflect that set up.

Your situation is a "mirror" - RH side of the road and the LH front seat occupied for generally 90% of the driving time.

If the GTO's are using the Monaro settings, then I'm sure it will reflect in road tracking and tyre wear and general driving response.

As an illustration, we had a 64 Chevy Belair and the Australian spring maker had the ride height adjusted for Australian road camber and "one up" driver!! The car looked "level" to the road.

It might be worth looking at the spring part numbers for the four corners and see if they are the same as the Australian numbers.

When comparing the Monaro and GTO are the relevant spring numbers in the same "corner" or opposite corners?

Hope this may help!

Mike :cool:The GTO data is the same as the Monaro, I've been through this with DMS as well. Not only what you put up above, but also consider that the camber limits are based on a 235/45R17 tire. The GTO tire is 245, wider, and that's why IMHO we hit the strut and rub even within range of a correct alignment.

[dms]

There are major problems with this story. To start, our deaelrhsip has sold more used GTOs than any other I am aware of. I have yet to see an issue with rear tires only, in terms of alignment. I ahve been very aggressive in the alignment end of the GTO due to discussions with miscreant and the group. have cehcke about 15 our GTO's with not a single align problem with the GTO. Cannot tell you who is being dishonest here. But someone is. If you brought it to the dealer, what are the align specs of he vehicle? The vehicle did not come with Michellins. the complete story is not here.

dms
mike

[ROKS ROKET]

I'm with you DMS on this one, rear tire wear, hmmmmm, can you say, BURN OUTS? Hey GTOGURRL, I think if your going to tell a story, you better read the other posts first so your story would make sense. There is no problem with the rear of the 04 GTO, and NO salesman would tell you that, and the service mechanic must have been sniffing the rubber fumes off of your rear tires when you brought them in smoking. Why would Michellin offer you 1/2 price tires, when they DON'T even put their brand tires on the GTO? Go TROLL the Honda board, we have enough of your kind here already.

ROK

PS, Hmmmmmm, new member, doesn't introduce himself, no car listed, nothing in his profile, hmmmmmmm, I wonder if he found out what happened to his diapearing oil.......or the garbage turkey truck? Once a BS'ter always a BS'ter................BUSTED!!!!!!!!!

[24v]

My rear tires wore out on the inside first as well. I killed them in 1 day spinning around, and doing donuts. I think the neg camber is caused by the rear end squatting. Here is a pic of one of my tires right before I replaced it.
http://www.24vr6.com/albums/album01/tire.jpg

[ROKS ROKET]

My rear tires wore out on the inside first as well. I killed them in 1 day spinning around, and doing donuts. I think the neg camber is caused by the rear end squatting. Here is a pic of one of my tires right before I replaced it.

Now that's a legitimate post, doing excessive dougnuts and roasting the tires will kill the rears. I understand about the inner tire wear, but I think it's from spinning around in circles while smoking them, more than just burning out. It could be from the squat, the suspension does kind of put most of the tire surface on the inner part of the rubber. It's hard to explain, but I think you know what I'm talking about. The other poster is just plain out BS......

Thanks for the Post 24v........

ROK

[24v]

Thanks for the Post 24v........

ROK
No problem, here is a pic to show the squat mid circle.
http://www.24vr6.com/albums/album07/slide2.sized.j pg

[GTO1_OHIO]

I have the same problem with excessive inner tire wear on only the rear tires. blah...blah...blah...blah...blah...I pretended to be interested in the 05' but told him that I was thinking of purchasing a used 04' and and he openly admitted that there was a problem with the rear-end of the 04' and NOT to buy one!!!!!

I replaced my tires at 16,000. Rotated 3 times and always between 32-35 lbs.
The car was aligned once, the first week I had it. The rear tires wore down to the wear bar on the center treads as they should have. There's nothing wrong with the 04 back end. :bs: :bs: :bs:

[gtogurrl]

Would you like the number and name of the Salesman that I spoke with? There were two different dealers that told me that their were problems with the rear end. AND, the tires that are on the car are BFGoodwrench KDWS. When I went to Discount Tire, they told me that Michelin was the ones who would warranty the tires. Would you like their number too? I have no reason to lie just to get all of you worked up.

[ROKS ROKET]

Would you like the number and name of the Salesman that I spoke with? There were two different dealers that told me that their were problems with the rear end. AND, the tires that are on the car are BFGoodwrench KDWS. When I went to Discount Tire, they told me that Michelin was the ones who would warranty the tires. Would you like their number too? I have no reason to lie just to get all of you worked up.
And that's why you discarded your other post...............................


TROLL

[gtogurrl]

I admit, I made a mistake but some of the posts didn't mention the front tires and It's not like I know what the hell you are all talking about so I shouldn't have said anything. I just need some answers but it seems like you are too quick to judge people.

[sccaGTO]

My rear tires wore out on the inside first as well. I killed them in 1 day spinning around, and doing donuts. I think the neg camber is caused by the rear end squatting. Here is a pic of one of my tires right before I replaced it.
The inside treads of my stock tires were wearing as well. I noticed this during the second month with the car (as I was getting to know the car). After I got new wheels & tires, I burnt the rears off (& posted vids :gr_devil: ). When I took the tires off the factory rims, I noticed I still had 2/32 inch tread on the outside. Nothing was left of the inside tread. The rear end squat seems consistent with several articles I've read. Cars with IRS tend to change alignment under hard acceleration. I've been keeping an eye on these tires since then. Nothing to worry about, yet. Maybe those Koni shocks cranked up near stiff have done more good than I thought. I expect the sway bars I've ordered will help stiffen the rear end to reduce the amount of change when launching hard.

[dms]

Maybe this is a record, but did a service on one of the first 04 GTO's we sold. Csut hss been back and forth accross country 2 times. She is not a hot rod but just likes sporty cars. She had about 23000 miles on her tires, and based on what I saw, i would expect she may get them to 30K.

I thinks so many of the issues all of us are seeing and talking about have to to with excessive negative camber. The picture above says it all: the hard accel causing significant squat, wll cause the tires to increase negative camber. maybe we should be changing the cambers in the rear to a more positive camber like the front, so on hard squating, the tires are more flat than probably -1.5 to -2.0 camber. I do think sway bars will help and stiffer shocks in the rear.

Have never visited the Aussie portion of this site. I am sure the U.S. drivers are not the only ones with the peddle to the metal syndrome. have others been communciating with them and if so, what are they saying

mike
dms

[swmn]

OK DMS, I have an alignment appointment in LA on Thursday. I was the guy you talked to late last week with 32.5k on my goat.

I am going to ask for the front camber to be taken up to 0.00to +0.125 degrees.

What are you thinking I should ask for for the rears?

If I wasn't having the strut rub and inner tire wear I probably could have gotten 38-40k out of my original tires.

Most (>75%) of my miles are highway with about 400# of stuff in the car with 170# me.

Thanks,
Scott

[dms]

OK DMS, I have an alignment appointment in LA on Thursday. I was the guy you talked to late last week with 32.5k on my goat.

I am going to ask for the front camber to be taken up to 0.00to +0.125 degrees.

What are you thinking I should ask for for the rears?

If I wasn't having the strut rub and inner tire wear I probably could have gotten 38-40k out of my original tires.

Most (>75%) of my miles are highway with about 400# of stuff in the car with 170# me.

Thanks,
Scott

Not really sure if anyone has ver posted the alignment specs So here they are

camber: -.2 plus/minues .5 (.-.7 to .3)
caster 7.75 degrees plus minues 1.25 (9.00 to 6.5)
cross caster plus or minus .6 degrees
toe for the front is .17 degrees plus or minues .17 degrees (0 to 3.4 degrees)
stick with something that is close to 0-.17 degrees

rear
camber -1.05 plus or minus .63 (-.42 to -1.68 degrees)
toe is .4 plus.miinus .34 (.06 to .74) again, keep this number low.

For those of you whose middle name is WOT from a stop, and judging from the pictures that are appearing, I think the rear cambers should be as positive as specs allow (-.42 degrees) Adding stiffer springs with more contorl on jounce, and even some upgraded sway bars may help

thanks
mike
dms

[miscreant]

Not really sure if anyone has ver posted the alignment specs So here they are

camber: -.2 plus/minues .5 (.-.7 to .3)
caster 7.75 degrees plus minues 1.25 (9.00 to 6.5)
cross caster plus or minus .6 degrees
toe for the front is .17 degrees plus or minues .17 degrees (0 to 3.4 degrees)
stick with something that is close to 0-.17 degrees

rear
camber -1.05 plus or minus .63 (-.42 to -1.68 degrees)
toe is .4 plus.miinus .34 (.06 to .74) again, keep this number low.

For those of you whose middle name is WOT from a stop, and judging from the pictures that are appearing, I think the rear cambers should be as positive as specs allow (-.42 degrees) Adding stiffer springs with more contorl on jounce, and even some upgraded sway bars may help

thanks
mike
dms
I updated my site a couple days ago:
http://www.myyellowgto.com/?page=wheelspecs1

FWIW, it's not 3.4 degrees of toe, it's .34 degrees of toe.

[miscreant]

OK DMS, I have an alignment appointment in LA on Thursday. I was the guy you talked to late last week with 32.5k on my goat.

I am going to ask for the front camber to be taken up to 0.00to +0.125 degrees.

What are you thinking I should ask for for the rears?

If I wasn't having the strut rub and inner tire wear I probably could have gotten 38-40k out of my original tires.

Most (>75%) of my miles are highway with about 400# of stuff in the car with 170# me.

Thanks,
ScottRear really isn't adjustable except for toe. For camber or toe in front or rear, anything toward 0 is an improvement for tire wear.

[swmn]

I amsticking the EYEORE in this thread so I canfindit quick with a simplesearch when I am at the dealership Thursday AM. I got tomake time to crack my Helm's open between now and then too.

Thanks folks,
Scott