Help my battery died! (or won'

[radkon]

I just picked up the GOAT from the dealership on Thurs. (Now everyone can call me an idiot for this next sentence or two) When we went to pick it up the battery was dead. They charged it up while we did all the paper work and it fired right up. I did insist that they replace the battery but they assured me it would be ok, you know charge while running etc. So I took it home ran it Fri to and from work (40 miles each way) and went out that night (another 50 miles or so) Brought it home and charged the battery from 7 AM Sat till 11 AM and drove it off (about 30 miles) Went to start her up about 15 minutes later and it cranked REALLY SLOW then started up. Drove it a bit and shut her off. A few hours later went to start her up again and the same thing happened. Started to turn over, all kinds of lights went on then looked like it was gonna die then all of a sudden it roared to life. So I got a little worried but it didn't seem like a battery problem, maybe starter, relay, or loose connection. So I went to start it Sunday and it barely cranked then started. I drove for a few minutes and it stopped running while I was driving, engine cut out and I panicked. Took awhile to get it started but I got her running. Anyway brought it home and charged it all day. I just went out to start it and it fired right up. To end this long story, if anyone is still reading this, I'm taking her to the dealer in the morning for a new battery. I'll let ya know what happens.

Has anyone else had this issue? Could it be a loose wire? Bad alternator? Or just a bad battery?

Thanks

[mistermike]

Wow. That's the first dead battery story I've heard from a recently shipped car. I would have thought they might have cleaned up their act with the car keys by now. Or it could be that the OEM batteries are just fragile crap.

[speed_demon_freak]

Someone else on here had a battery problem too.

Yeah let the dealer fix it.




http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2526&highlight=dead+battery

[radkon]

Thanks for all the advice, have one on me! :drink: The dealer took care of the issue yesterday. I watched them run tests on the alternator output and had them check the voltage regulator. They put the battery on a load tester and found it was the culprit, they dropped a new one in and I'm on my way. I'll let ya know if the issue returns. The wife's got the GOAT today, I'm sure I'll hear about ANY little problems or weirdness.

[COSMO GUY]

Alright "radkon" Happy Cruzzzen... The guys/gals on this site are smart!!

[Mikie]

Has anyone else had this issue? Could it be a loose wire? Bad alternator? Or just a bad battery?

Thanks
My car had a bad battery also when delivered. In fact the dealer found out that several of them were sitting at the Annapolis railhead waiting for new batteries. GM decided to ship the car after a charge-up, and hope the battery would find the dealer sometime soon. The problem was, the dealer had nothing close as far as physical size and electrical specifications were concerned. They installed the new battery, and all was good - except for the defective red gauge cluster which took another 3 weeks to order.

Other than that, everything's been fine. :)

[radkon]

My dealer replaced the factory one with a new delco, isn't the same as stock but fits the bill. I'll try to get a part # or specs on it later.

Update:
I couldn't find any specs on the thing, wierd. But its an AC Delso with a 7yr warranty. Seems to do the job but its no Optima. Pic attached.

[wildwall]

I got my GTO on March 8. Last Friday- May 21- I went to start the car and the battery didn't have enough power to turn the starter. I got a jump and drove about 25 miles and it hadn't charged enough to start again, so I figured it was the battery. Charged overnight and still wouldn't turn over. Went out Saturday am and bought 7 year battery - started right up! I guess they still gotta cut some corners!

[radkon]

I got my GTO on March 8. Last Friday- May 21- I went to start the car and the battery didn't have enough power to turn the starter. I got a jump and drove about 25 miles and it hadn't charged enough to start again, so I figured it was the battery. Charged overnight and still wouldn't turn over. Went out Saturday am and bought 7 year battery - started right up! I guess they still gotta cut some corners!

Give the dealer the reciept, thats covered under warranty!

[dmonty]

I have a friend that works at the place where they take all the cars for the Tampa Bay area off the train and loads them on the trucks. He says that about ALL of them have dead batteries on arrival.

I really wish I would have switched out my new Optima Red Top from my Monte Carlo when I traded her in!!!

Good luck all,
_DM

[COSMO GUY]

Wildwall, Radkon is right. Get your money back... warranty... Many post on bad Batt. on this site.. And Welcome.. There are many great wonderful knowledgable people on this site. Cos

[radkon]

I have a friend that works at the place where they take all the cars for the Tampa Bay area off the train and loads them on the trucks. He says that about ALL of them have dead batteries on arrival.


That doesn't really surprise me. Think about it, takes a week or two from production line to shipping yard in OZ. Another week or so to get them on the boat, 30 days to get to the west coast. Another week or two in the shipping and rail yards on the west coast. About a week by rail to the east coast. Another week to get on a truck and dropped off at the dealer. So 10 to 12 weeks in shipping with brief periods of the engine running. What surprises me is that the stock batteries don't seem to hold a charge once they are run everyday. I haven't had one problem since mine was replaced. (see my earlier post)

[MIGoat]

Had to have my alternator replaced on the first day.

[AmesGTO]

Get an Optima. Forget the factory battery.

[phobos512]

I replaced the factory battery solely on the basis that it was ugly. Red top Optimas are "t3h bm0b!

[GMH GTO]

Its a common mis conception that running the car charges the battery, the alternator maintains the charge in the battery while providing the electrical potential for accessories in the car.

I think we have good batteries in the GTO, I just tested mine today with my Snap On Micro VAT (voltage amperage tester) our batteries are 610 CCA mine put out 698CCA and didn't drop below 10.0V during load test or cranking. Thats a good perfoming battery.

[AmesGTO]

Its a common mis conception that running the car charges the battery, the alternator maintains the charge in the battery while providing the electrical potential for accessories in the car.

I think we have good batteries in the GTO, I just tested mine today with my Snap On Micro VAT (voltage amperage tester) our batteries are 610 CCA mine put out 698CCA and didn't drop below 10.0V during load test or cranking. Thats a good perfoming battery.

Do you mean idling the car doesn't give the alternator enough rpm to do anything but maintain the battery? Or what are you saying about the alternator not charging the battery?

[GMH GTO]

The alternator no matter what speed of engine maintains battery charge. In other words if you have a dead battery letting the car charge it isn't an efficient way of doing so.

If the alternator was capable of doing so it would over charge the battery, how can it tell when the batterys charged?

[Old Goat]

The alternator no matter what speed of engine maintains battery charge. In other words if you have a dead battery letting the car charge it isn't an efficient way of doing so.

If the alternator was capable of doing so it would over charge the battery, how can it tell when the batterys charged?The voltage regulator IC in the alternator takes care of that.

[AmesGTO]

The alternator no matter what speed of engine maintains battery charge. In other words if you have a dead battery letting the car charge it isn't an efficient way of doing so.

If the alternator was capable of doing so it would over charge the battery, how can it tell when the batterys charged?

Clearly the alternator can charge the battery. Like you said it's not very efficent at doing so, but it does charge the battery.

A voltage regular would be what controls the amount of power the alternator is making, which insures an overcharge doesn't happen.

[AmesGTO]

I just did a Google search to see if it could be explained better than I did. Here is something I found:

"The voltage regulator controls or regulates the alternator's output. Think of it as the brains of the charging system. It senses how much voltage is needed by your vehicle, then modifies the field current within the alternator so it puts out just the right amount of current. Too little current can allow the battery to run down while too much can damage it and other electrical and electronic components. When the regulator fails, the charging system usually ceases to function -- except in cases where the nature of the failure causes the alternator to run wild and overcharge the battery. In any event, the only cure for a dead or defective regulator is replacement.

In older vehicles, the regulator was a separate component usually mounted somewhere in the engine compartment. If this type of regulator failed, it could be easily replaced in a matter of minutes with a new one. But for the last decade or more, most regulators have been mounted in or on the alternator itself. This was done by the vehicle manufacturers to simplify wiring and assembly. It was also made possible by advances in electronics that allowed the regulator to be reduced in size to a small chip."

[GTO/GTP]

What I suspect is more of a problem is that the batteries are being severly drained from sitting and short 2 or 3 minute runs to move them around the docks or rail yards are taking their toll. Car batteries i.e. Lead-Acid batteries do not like to be fully discharged, unlike the Ni-Cad batteries people are probably more familiar with a lead acid battery would prefer to be "topped-off" after every use.

Shawn

[GMH GTO]

When there talking about the voltage regulators function there talking about load to the alternator (rear window defogger, high beams etc.)

It has to charge the battery, but it maintains its voltage at 12.6V.

Look at the original post, after leaving the dealership where his car was jump started, the next day his car slowly cranked, drove it for a few hours and still did the same thing.

My reason for posting was the ignorant advice given by the dealership. They should have just put in a new battery.

Yeah an alternator will charge a battery, when electromotive force (the voltage in the battery) is low it can't resist amperage and lets in amperage to the battery. Still it doesn't work to a T.

If that was the case why would their be a need for battery chargers?

[Old Goat]

When there talking about the voltage regulators function there talking about load to the alternator (rear window defogger, high beams etc.)

It has to charge the battery, but it maintains its voltage at 12.6V.

Look at the original post, after leaving the dealership where his car was jump started, the next day his car slowly cranked, drove it for a few hours and still did the same thing.

My reason for posting was the ignorant advice given by the dealership. They should have just put in a new battery.

Yeah an alternator will charge a battery, when electromotive force (the voltage in the battery) is low it can't resist amperage and lets in amperage to the battery. Still it doesn't work to a T.

If that was the case why would their be a need for battery chargers?Because dead batteries cannot start cars to permit the running alternator to charge them? Seriously, this battery is a 600A (CCA) 86-7YR AC Delco deep cycle battery. The starter may pull as much as 600 Amps for short durations. I believe on this car it is actually less. The Mitsubishi alternator on the car is capable of putting out 140 Amps at 13.6 volts all day long according to the Helms. It can charge a simply drained battery and run your needed accessories, but not in a half hour. Neither can the average battery charger in a shop. The alternator cannot however, load test the electrical system, test the voltage regulator, or load test the battery for a dead cell or a surface charge. A charger/tester is definitely needed for that, especially since we didn't even get a voltmeter with the car for basic diagnosis. Otherwise, everyone that ever got a jump start would have to head directly to a battery charger before they could ever turn the key off again, and that is simply not the case, IMHO and experience.

[GMH GTO]

Put it this way, I had a tow in, customer left an accessory on, battery was only a year old. So in all practicle cases cleaned the terminals did a charging system load test looked fine no parasthetic drain so I shipped it. Two days later its cold morning and they had to jump start it, they were ticked. My "policy" changed and now everyone buys a battery after a no start, nice guys finish last.

If you drove for say 8 hours maybe you could recharge a fully drained battery.

[Old Goat]

Put it this way, I had a tow in, customer left an accessory on, battery was only a year old. So in all practicle cases cleaned the terminals did a charging system load test looked fine no parasthetic drain so I shipped it. Two days later its cold morning and they had to jump start it, they were ticked. My "policy" changed and now everyone buys a battery after a no start, nice guys finish last.

If you drove for say 8 hours maybe you could recharge a fully drained battery.I see where you are coming from. I also know you can charge a battery just so many times after a big drain to zero, they grow 'whiskers' at the bottom of the plates and can short out cells. My neighbor is one of those customers who just doesn't get that 2 years on a $15.00 barebones bottom of the line yard tractor battery is about as good as it gets. He also thinks concrete should be self-levelling...ya know what I mean? :banghead:

[GMH GTO]

Still our GTOs batterys crank out some amps, more then they are rated for. I'll probley replace this one with an Optima when the time comes.

[Old Goat]

Still our GTOs batterys crank out some amps, more then they are rated for. I'll probley replace this one with an Optima when the time comes.
Rightfully so, modern car, modern battery.

[AmesGTO]

Telling someone to drive around to charge the battery is dumb advice. It's way more expensive than using a battery charger. Not very efficent at all. I would guess dealers would say that because a lot of people don't have battery chargers.

If you take a look at most battery chargers they will do something like 20 amps fast charge and 2 amps trickle charge. The engine start amps could be about anything 75 amp or more. From my car stereo days I would guess (total guess, don't know for sure) that this car has around an 80 amp alternator. It would very likely have 15-20 amp available for charging the battery. So what I'm saying is the car is capable of charging the battery just like battery charger. It wouldn't take anywhere near 8 hours to charge with the car.

I do agree the dealership should have switched batteries. Car batteries don't take being drained completely dead very well at all; that's what deep cycle batteries are for.

[GMH GTO]

with car running idling, alternator may only put out 10 or less amps no load.

The vehicle brand I service says 20-30 amp output at 2500rpm with high beams on.

With an 80 amp alternator.

[GMH GTO]

Telling someone to drive around to charge the battery is dumb advice. It's way more expensive than using a battery charger. Not very efficent at all. I would guess dealers would say that because a lot of people don't have battery chargers.

They say it to blow someone off.

[AmesGTO]

with car running idling, alternator may only put out 10 or less amps no load.

The vehicle brand I service says 20-30 amp output at 2500rpm with high beams on.

With an 80 amp alternator.

If the brand you service has an alternator that is capable of 80 amps and the car only needs 20-30 even with the highs on then the brand you service could easily charge the battery.

[GMH GTO]

??????

It doesn't need it outputs that 20-30 providing good opperation.

[AmesGTO]

??????

It doesn't need it outputs that 20-30 providing good opperation.

The more current an alternator has to output the more resistance it will cause the engine. So an alternator varies it's output based on what the cars electrical system needs. If the alternator always put out it's max current it would be a waste of load on the engine and a waste of gas.

If the alternator is putting out 20-30 amps at 2500 rpm with the highs on then that is all the car is requiring. If you put a bigger load on the alternator and it still keeps putting out 20-30 amps it's broke. An 80 amp alternator should be able to get to 80 amps if the load requires it.

I'm not really sure where we are going with all this, but needless to say a car's alternator is very capable of charging a car battery.

[GMH GTO]

when wasn't it capable? Look at the forum topic starter and my expirience. The alternater charges a drained battery but it takes quite a while under ideal conditions to charge by the charging system. I don't take that risk anymore, as I said earlier.

[Tinman]

My dealer replaced the factory one with a new delco, isn't the same as stock but fits the bill. I'll try to get a part # or specs on it later.

Update:
I couldn't find any specs on the thing, wierd. But its an AC Delso with a 7yr warranty. Seems to do the job but its no Optima. Pic attached.

I had my battery replaced also. The dealer took 4 days to get it. It's the same battery they gave you. It's a very good platinum battery, they told me it is alot higher in cost. It has higher cranking amps than the one from down under. It works for me, I'm satisfied.

[CMNTMXR57]

The more current an alternator has to output the more resistance it will cause the engine. So an alternator varies it's output based on what the cars electrical system needs. If the alternator always put out it's max current it would be a waste of load on the engine and a waste of gas.

If the alternator is putting out 20-30 amps at 2500 rpm with the highs on then that is all the car is requiring. If you put a bigger load on the alternator and it still keeps putting out 20-30 amps it's broke. An 80 amp alternator should be able to get to 80 amps if the load requires it.

I'm not really sure where we are going with all this, but needless to say a car's alternator is very capable of charging a car battery.

While you're on the money, a charging system's alternator doesn't decrease it's output solely to relieve the engine from having to work harder. Mostly it's so that you don't overcharge the system. Once it recharges the battery and is supplying sufficient power for the needs at the time, the regulator will scale down it's output. Once a load is placed upon it, IT WILL DROP! But only temporarily. It should recover and put out sufficient output for it's needs with that load. If it doesn't recover, that's a telltale sign something is amiss. But it isn't always the alternator!!

[gto_in_nc]

A few of the old-timers will remember when overcharging a battery on a trip was a very real concern...