Gun Advice & information

[Lone]

Let me preface this post with this: I have ZERO clue about guns, beyond a cursory understanding - ie: .22 cal = vajayjay gun compared to a .50 cal.

My dad is enjoying his old age by adding to his arsenal. He's talked to me about what he's interested in getting in the long run, and I am thinking about making some of it happen (call it a birthday gift, or whatever).

One thing in particular I'm interested in finding for him, but I have no idea if it is even legal to own (Arizona, if state matters).

He wants an M16 rifle, like he had when he was in Korea. Now, I have no idea if you can get them, or if there is a "civvie" version that's called something else.

I also have no idea what they run.

Can some gun whacko out there give me an idea of legality, cost, and relative ease of finding it?

Thanks!

-Lone

[canttouchthis]

An m15 like this........http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M15_pisto l

Or an M16 like this......http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle

It’s very hard to purchase and own a fully automatic weapon like the true M16. But if it’s turned into a semi-automatic you can pick one up. If you just want one as a "museum piece" you can pick one up that’s deemed unusable. The pistol M15 you can own….its not automatic and probably find one at a gun show. Most states are different but this is how it is in PA…..

[Lone]

An m15 like this........http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M15_pisto l

Or an M16 like this......http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle

Doh, sorry, I typo'd there. Good catch.

He's after an M16 Rifle - not the M15 Pistol.

Edited original post as well.

[canttouchthis]

Quick search found this:
cool $18,995.00
http://www.shootersxchange.com/detail.cfm?recordID =70343

[canttouchthis]

Here is a place that sells replicas.......

http://www.hardscrabblefarm.com/vn/replica-weapons.html

[jonfor]

korean war?

[canttouchthis]

M-16 Assault Rifle
The M16 is a lightweight, 5.56 mm caliber, air-cooled, gas-operated, magazine-fed rifle, with a rotating bolt, actuated by direct impingement gas operation. It is constructed of steel, aluminum and composite plastics.

M16 is the U.S. military designation for a family of rifles derived from the ArmaLite AR-15 and further developed by Colt.

The M16 Rifle family including the M16/A1/A2/A3/A4 has been the primary infantry rifle of the United States military since the 1960s, is in use by 15 NATO countries, and has been the most produced firearm in its caliber.

The M16 was an initial version fielded in the early 1960s; however the U.S. Army began to field the M16A1 in 1965 with priority going to Vietnam. A transitional issue was provided to US Army units stationed in Europe. Nearly all US Army units had switched over to the system by 1967. US Army Basic Training units retained the M-14 rifle up through 1969. The US Marine Corps also adopted the system during this period. Adoption of the M16A2 by both the US Army and USMC started in the late 1980s, and the M16A4 began to be fielded even more recently. They are automatic rifles, firing a 5.56 mm round. During the late 1970s a roughly standardized load for this ammunition was adopted throughout NATO.

The M16A2 entered service in the 1980s and fired the NATO standard, the Belgian-designed M855/M856 cartridge. The M16A2 is a select fire rifle capable of semi-automatic or three-round bursts and incorporating design elements desired by the Marine Corps. These features included an adjustable rear-sight for windage and elevation, a 5/8 inch longer buttstock, heavier barrel, case deflector for left-handed shooters, and rounded handguards. Mode of fire is determined by using a selector switch on the side of the weapon. The M16A3 was essentially an M16A2 with an M16A1 fire control group; this had only limited procurement by the USN.

The M16A4 became standard issue for the United States Marine Corps during Operation Iraqi Freedom, increasingly replacing the earlier M16A2. In the United States Army, a combination of the M16A4 and M4 Carbine continue to replace existing M16A2 Rifles. The A4 incorporates a flattop receiver unit developed for the M4 Carbine. The USMC version of the M16A4 features a handguard with four Picatinny rails for mounting optical sights, laser pointers, night vision, forward handgrips, removable carry handle and flashlights.

The M16 is primarily manufactured by Colt and Fabrique Nationale de Herstal, with variants produced by numerous countries around the world. Semi-automatic versions, generally referred to as "AR-15s" (because of Colt's purchase of the nomenclature from Armalite), are popular recreational firearms in the United States, with versions manufactured by a handful of larger manufacturers and over a dozen smaller concerns.

The M16 was first adopted in 1964 by the United States Air Force (USAF) as the M16. Various modified versions of the M16 design were subsequently fielded under experimental designations, culminating in the M16A1. The M16A1 was simply the M16 with a forward assist as requested by the Army. This weapon remained the primary infantry rifle of the United States military from 1967 until the 1980s, when it was supplemented by the M16A2. The M16A3 is a fully-automatic variant of the M16A2, issued primarily within the United States Naval Special Warfare. The M16A2, in turn, is currently being supplemented by the M16A4, which incorporates the flattop receiver unit developed for the M4 Carbine. Previous versions of the weapon are still in stock and used primarily by reserve and National Guard units in the United States as well as by the U.S. Air Force.

In the United States, AR-15 and M-16 variants with certain features such as collapsible stocks, flash suppressors, and bayonet lugs were prohibited for sales to civilians during the period 1994-2004 by the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, under the provision known as the Assault Weapons Ban. Those that were manufactured with those features were stamped, "Restricted Military/Government/Law Enforcement/Export Only" as well as the accompanying high capacity magazines. Since the expiration of the Federal AWB in September of 2004, these features are now illegal only in certain states.

[RokX]

korean war?

Had to be when he was stationed there post-war? :dunno:

[72/04 GTO]

Can some gun whacko out there give me an idea of legality, cost, and relative ease of finding it?




Fail

[toxie]

Ar15, A1 w/ triangular handguard. FAQ: http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/uppers/

Not that hard to find out there - but will be expensive (1500-2500 depending on condition and whatnot).

And we're not wackos, the correct term to use is "nut" :).

[canttouchthis]

I am a bitter” small-town American “cling to my guns and my religion”,

[Ross]

Get him an AR-15 A2 with a 20 inch barrel and a 20 or 30 round magazine.. He'll be happy.

[GTORads]

Ar15, A1 w/ triangular handguard. FAQ: http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/uppers/

Not that hard to find out there - but will be expensive (1500-2500 depending on condition and whatnot).

And we're not wackos, the correct term to use is "nut" :).

I prefer the term of "enthusiast"

[VeritasGT]

Fail

I think he's right on.

[72/04 GTO]

I think he's right on.

and you have penis breath but you know..to each their own.

[VeritasGT]

and you have penis breath but you know..to each their own.

:rolleyes: spot on dude.

[toxie]

Wait, you live in NJ - your allowed to use gun forums? Isn't that a felony there?

Or did the state forget to tell you what to think today?

[VeritasGT]

Wait, you live in NJ - your allowed to use gun forums? Isn't that a felony there?

Or did the state forget to tell you what to think today?

Just the perks of dating a girl in PA :)

[SICKS.OH]

Wait, you live in NJ - your allowed to use gun forums? Isn't that a felony there?

Or did the state forget to tell you what to think today?

:ftw::gr_jest::gr_jest:

[Bandit]

Since you are unlikely to be dropping several thousands of dollars on a real M16, and even less likely to be transferring a Class III weapon... you actually want to be looking at an AR-15. An AR-15 is the semi-auto version of the venerable M16.

Problem is, they are tough to get right now. The prices have skyrocketed because of the impending Obama Assault Weapons Ban re-instatement, so people are buying them all while they are legally able to. This causes the prices to soar as the dealer recognize the huge demand.

Also, the worlds largest manufacturer of 'black rifles', DPMS is totally out, and cannot make enough to meet the demand. Brands like Colt who produce less and regularly charge more, are also in the same boat.

I'm not saying that you WON'T find one, but you will be paying about 30% more right now, and that goes up as we approach the inauguration of our next Chief.

Best of luck.

[Lone]

Thanks to everyone posting up info / details.

Yes, he was in the US Army stationed in Korea post-war, in the 70's.

So, testing my knowledge here:

The AR15 is more or less similar gun, but not necessarily a direct replacement (ie it is NOT interchangeable). It is also more common for civvies, and less expensive. It performs the same functions however. It also has a bigger caliber. It has pretty much all of the same goodies you'd be able to get for an M16.

As for the gun whacko comment, just a honest ribbing. No harm no foul. One thing of note tho, there are gun owners, enthusiasts, whackos, and nuts. I needed a whacko's opinion, because I wasn't looking for a portable rocket launcher (nuts), and I wasn't looking for a nice deer rifle or handgun (enthusiasts). :-)

Anywho, one last question:

I agree with the AR15, it looks like the best option for him, even though it isn't EXACTLY what he was hoping to find. What is a reasonable expectation of cost? Like I said, I do not own a gun, nor do I have any baseline to go from to understand options and pricing. I do not relish the idea of going in blind. That is NEVER a good plan.

Thanks again!

-Lone

[Lone]

Since you are unlikely to be dropping several thousands of dollars on a real M16, and even less likely to be transferring a Class III weapon... you actually want to be looking at an AR-15. An AR-15 is the semi-auto version of the venerable M16.

Problem is, they are tough to get right now. The prices have skyrocketed because of the impending Obama Assault Weapons Ban re-instatement, so people are buying them all while they are legally able to. This causes the prices to soar as the dealer recognize the huge demand.

Also, the worlds largest manufacturer of 'black rifles', DPMS is totally out, and cannot make enough to meet the demand. Brands like Colt who produce less and regularly charge more, are also in the same boat.

I'm not saying that you WON'T find one, but you will be paying about 30% more right now, and that goes up as we approach the inauguration of our next Chief.

Best of luck.

Good info. I am pretty sure this is my pop's reasoning for saying he wants one too. Even if it isn't, it sounds like a good reason to get one, if they will be unavailable otherwise afterwards.

As to the "I doubt you'll spend thousands", I am aware that they are expensive (in general). I am not outting the M16 as an option, cost wasn't my primary concern. If the typical M16 is $20k like the one linked above, you're right - I probably won't be buying it for him outright, I'd probably just put a deposit and let him pick up the rest.

AR15 costs sound more like something I'd drop without worrying about it - which is why I am leaning towards that. If I can get the M16 for 5 grand or less, then perhaps I'll reconsider. I just don't know how much they are, and 'random googling' doesn't give you great deals, just the best advertised on the internet.

Anyone have a favorite retailer for this sort of thing? Or am I left to "google it" for randomness?

-Lone

[bear]

Thanks to everyone posting up info / details.

Yes, he was in the US Army stationed in Korea post-war, in the 70's.

So, testing my knowledge here:

The AR15 is more or less similar gun, but not necessarily a direct replacement (ie it is NOT interchangeable). It is also more common for civvies, and less expensive. It performs the same functions however. It also has a bigger caliber. It has pretty much all of the same goodies you'd be able to get for an M16.

As for the gun whacko comment, just a honest ribbing. No harm no foul. One thing of note tho, there are gun owners, enthusiasts, whackos, and nuts. I needed a whacko's opinion, because I wasn't looking for a portable rocket launcher (nuts), and I wasn't looking for a nice deer rifle or handgun (enthusiasts). :-)

Anywho, one last question:

I agree with the AR15, it looks like the best option for him, even though it isn't EXACTLY what he was hoping to find. What is a reasonable expectation of cost? Like I said, I do not own a gun, nor do I have any baseline to go from to understand options and pricing. I do not relish the idea of going in blind. That is NEVER a good plan.

Thanks again!

-Lone

The Ar-15 and the M-16 are exactly the same except the M-16 is full auto and the AR-15 is only semi auto. Both fire the 5.56 nato(or .223) round

I think for it to look like the M-16 that he would have carried you need to get one with the A2 sights and butstock as well as the triangular handguard with the 20" barrel

This is the worst time for him to be wanting one B/c as Bandit sait prices are crazy right now. I just put mine together for around $700 but that was buying piece at a time.

[SICKS.OH]

http://www.retroblackrifle.com/

http://www.nodakspud.com/AR%20Lowers.htm

[SANman1911]

:point:

and you have penis breath but you know..to each their own.

Oh damn! now my sides hurt!