S spec Commodore

[White Rider]

With the SS spec Commodores and a SS class varients getting the LS1 and possibly an LS2 next year, I'm wondering why does Holden keep the S spec engine the same as the base commodore? Why dont they use the Northstar v8 for the S? IMO it would fit the mid performance ideology of the S class.

[DevilYellow]

Holden can not have the northstar. The S I thought had the 3800 v6.

[Decromin]

For one, the northstar is a much more expensive motor than the LS1 or its variants. The S is targeted at people who want a sporty look without the V8 price and fuel issues.

[isszy]

With the SS spec Commodores and a SS class varients getting the LS1 and possibly an LS2 next year, I'm wondering why does Holden keep the S spec engine the same as the base commodore? Why dont they use the Northstar v8 for the S? IMO it would fit the mid performance ideology of the S class.

Holden has 3 'sporty' variants.

The S, which runs the old Buick 3800cc V6 in standard trim (152kW), is basically an Executive with a body kit and FE2 suspension.
The SV8, which similar to the S but has the Gen III 245kW V8.
The SS, which has the same motor but a higher level of equipment and a flashier body kit.

Holden leaves the hipo motors to HSV to give a point of difference for marketing.

[MarkII]

The S is an Executive - cloth trim, no aircon standard (although you'd struggle to find one without it) use to be no traction control. Leather not optionable. 16" wheels, lesser tyres. Smaller aero, lesser sound system. TC used to be not avail, no headrests on the rear passenger seats. About $40KOz

The SS is built on Berlina trim - leather optional, air standard, bigger body kit, 17 and now 18" wheels standard. $50KOz. The GTO is basically a mix of this and the Monaro package.

The Monaro is built on a Calais equipment package - dualzone climate, power everything, leather stock, alarm etc. $60K.

The SS started life in the 70's Monaro as a trim package with sports dash bucket seats on the Belmont, the base model Holden. The GTS was a higher-level set of kit on the Premier trim package.

As the current SS has had content added and moved upscale for price, the S has become the stock stripper and the Executive econo-model lost the V8 option. If you want, you can order an SV8 with no air and 17" wheels optional for a stripper streetcar and they can be found at 60% of Monaro price.

As pointed out, the LS1 being the stock item produces an economy of scale - same exhausts, fitments etc.

The Commodore is a big, heavy car. Not sure the Northstar would work real good.

[aussiefan]

Ok, lets get a few facts straight here !!
The 'S' pack is base off the Executive and up until recently was a very basic vehicle. The current 'VY' 'S' pack has its own interior trim with leather as an option,power windows,A/C,Traction control,ABS,twin front airbags are all standard.
The supercharged 'V6' is also an option for the 'S' pack.
The 'SV8' was introduced for people who wanted a 'V8' and couldn't afford a 'SS'.
The 'SV8' is based off the 'S' pack so whatever the 'S' gets standard & as options the 'SV8' gets, the 'SV8' also gets it's own interior trim but you cannot get leather.
The 'SS' then moves up into a class of it's own, even though it's still based off the Execuitve, everything on the 'SS' is standard expect you can option upto coloured leather unlike the 'S' where it only comes in Black.

Hoping this has straightened a few things out.

[mmciau]

I have just finished the Adelaide South Australia to Darwin Northern Territory in an Executive (3800 V6 A4) with LPG and have returned 11.2 Litres per 100 Km sitting on 105 Km/hour.

Never missed a beat in 3,100 Kms

Mike :)

[White Rider]

that woulda cost you AU$3.92 per 100km at $0.35c a liter. and AU$121.52 for the whole trip. LPG is great isnt it?

Curiously Holden doesn't support LPG for the Ls1...

[mmciau]

White Rider,
Not bad at the maths sir but in some of the "outback towns", I paid $0.79 per litre and no less than $0.50 per litre any where so really, my fuel bill was a little higher than your calculation!!

Petrol (Gas) was another story with some centres at $1.35 per Litre (AUD) and diesel wasn't much cheaper.

what was astounding in the Northern Territory section was to be sittting on 105 Km/Hr and to get a Holden LS1 "slide" by at +160 Km/Hr, some even higher - no speed limit in open areas!

Mike

[tiggerfan]

White Rider,
Not bad at the maths sir but in some of the "outback towns", I paid $0.79 per litre and no less than $0.50 per litre any where so really, my fuel bill was a little higher than your calculation!!

Petrol (Gas) was another story with some centres at $1.35 per Litre (AUD) and diesel wasn't much cheaper.

what was astounding in the Northern Territory section was to be sittting on 105 Km/Hr and to get a Holden LS1 "slide" by at +160 Km/Hr, some even higher - no speed limit in open areas!

Mike

Was gonna say, there is so speed limit in NT outside of the tourist road out to Uluru.

I'd be bored at 105 clicks.

[White Rider]

0.79! geez I wonder why? If there is a $0.45 difference between a city price and outback price then the average 35,000 liter tanker would be worth $15,750 more than a tanker delivering to a city location. Are they trying to have us belive it costs $15,750 to deliver a tankerload of LPG to outback Australia?
Or is it just the petrol stations that are robbing the consumer?

[Odin]

I think its petrol "companies" robbing the consumer.

[GS455_65]

the reason for no LPG on LS1 is due to the plastic intake manfold. Strictly a safety issue because if you have an ignition problem and a subsequent backfire into the manifold with a fuel mix all the way back to the vaporiser it will melt the intake.
Have had problems with dual fuel carburettored vehicle where it has melted the plastic float in the fuel bowl.

[GS455_65]

the sale of LPG to motorists in Australia is a total ripoff when you consider they sell it to the japanese for around $0.03 per litre.

[White Rider]

the reason for no LPG on LS1 is due to the plastic intake manfold. Strictly a safety issue because if you have an ignition problem and a subsequent backfire into the manifold with a fuel mix all the way back to the vaporiser it will melt the intake.

ahhh, thanks for the insight. Considering Australia has to burn off excess LPG, any price other than transport an maintinence costs is a rip off.

[auzzie]

ok well the s-pack is being droped from the next comadore and they are calling it the cv6 .... same shit really its just to compete with the ford falcon xr6 name a bit better in my opinion.
as far as specification the VZ comadore s-pack or sv6 as its being called will have the upspec version of the new alloytech engine.
the base model executive, berlina, and aclaim come standard with the alloytec 170 which has 175kw of power however the sv6, calias and statesman will feature the alloytech190 with 190kw.
This means the s-pack will be different than the standard.
Berlina and aclaim are like an executive commadore with a few of the options added different badging and are offered a bit cheaper than adding the options to an executive.
Ford australia has similar models in its falcon lineup.

Fuel in australia is taxed heaps! regular unleaded 91 octane has about 2/3 of its overall price being tax and other fuels have significantly more tax. LPG is acutually less than 10cents a litre but they jack it up to around 40cents with all the taxes. They also do this to level the fuels in a way so that the benifits of one fuel over another is not that significant. so that we have choice in our fuel ... forcing all the fuels to be competative.

[Odin]

it will be called the sv6 not the cv6

[White Rider]

LPG is acutually less than 10cents a litre but they jack it up to around 40cents with all the taxes.

Im no expert, but LPG was not taxed apart from GST of 10%, only this July is the gov phasing a seperate tax on LPG. It used to be free of tax (conversion equpment also tax free) to encourage its use for its cleaner burning properties, but now that a lot of people have converted, they tax it...

They also do this to level the fuels in a way so that the benifits of one fuel over another is not that significant.

What is wrong with LPG having significant benifits than unleaded? If we all ran LPG we would basicly almost solve toxic air pollution...

Unfortunatly LPG price in Oz isnt really being monitored and much profiteering is going on. Companies know that as long as LPG stays less than half of the current unleaded price, people will use LPG, that LPG rises and fluctuates along with petrol prices is BS. To their credit the June petrol price hike was NOT acompanied by a rise in LPG price. I can only credit this move to iminent tax in July.

That they introduce Hybrid cars is a joke, clean fuels are here, and they are practical- but now may be priced out of practicality.

[Warren]

What is wrong with LPG having significant benifits than unleaded? If we all ran LPG we would basicly almost solve toxic air pollution....
I really do not know about OZ, but I really wish that we had the options for LPG here. It burns very clean, and I do not *think* it has much power loss from regluar unleaded gasoline (is that an oxymoron?) Anyway, the problem with LPG here in the states is availiblity. I know a few places where I can get it around here, but I also lived 45 minutes from Kansas City for 8 years, and I could not tell you one place in Kansas city where you can get a refill.

I WISH that we would get on the ball and start using LPG in the US. Problem is, most of the people that I know do not even know what LPG stands for, let alone that it could run their vehicles.

[phobos512]

I really do not know about OZ, but I really wish that we had the options for LPG here. It burns very clean, and I do not *think* it has much power loss from regluar unleaded gasoline (is that an oxymoron?) Anyway, the problem with LPG here in the states is availiblity. I know a few places where I can get it around here, but I also lived 45 minutes from Kansas City for 8 years, and I could not tell you one place in Kansas city where you can get a refill.

I WISH that we would get on the ball and start using LPG in the US. Problem is, most of the people that I know do not even know what LPG stands for, let alone that it could run their vehicles.

Liquid petroleum gas, for the uninitiated.

I'm sure the near absence of LPG in use in the States is due more to the major oil companies than anything else. That's also why it's taken so long for hybrid vehicles. I'm no conspiracy theorist but let's think about this - you go away from gasoline and not only do companies lose money that, if people want to drive, they are required to pay, but it kills jobs.

Personally, I say kill the jobs and the major oil companies but that's just me.

[Warren]

I'm sure the near absence of LPG in use in the States is due more to the major oil companies than anything else. That's also why it's taken so long for hybrid vehicles. I'm no conspiracy theorist but let's think about this - you go away from gasoline and not only do companies lose money that, if people want to drive, they are required to pay, but it kills jobs.

Personally, I say kill the jobs and the major oil companies but that's just me.
Thats what I am thinking. In Farm communities, where LPG is availible, the farm trucks run it. The problem is availibility, and that kinda makes me mad. I WANT to convert my truck to LPG, but I cannot justify it for lack of availiblity.

[White Rider]

and I do not *think* it has much power loss from regluar unleaded gasoline

It's like when you change any fuel- LPG has a much higher octane number than petrol, so you'll need a tune up (or re map) to work optimally.

[auzzie]

LPG needs a big arse gas tank for starters think about a 100litre BBQ botel and wacking it in your boot. LPG is actually a byproduct of fuel production ... for every 2 litres of petrol you get you get about 1 litre of LPG. They collect the gas left over from fuel production and rather than just burning it they presurise it and make LPG.... fuel tax in OZ is crazzy. LPG is cheap as cheap comes .... but the reall crime is we have 1 of if not the largest deposits of natural gasss. and all we use it for is central heating and export to asia ... oh well i guess when every one runs out of petrol and we have all this gass ill be happy... along with the most uranium in the world.... lucky we are on an island...
LPG should be encouraged it means you can use what would otherwise be waste from a refinary to help lower emisions etc.... in australia i think they encourage resource management and waste usage alot.... for example we use fly ash from smelters in our concrete to help its strength etc. and lower its cost... which would otherwise just go to landfills... in the case of LPG may aswell burn it in a car.

[White Rider]

True with the natural gas (CNG), unfortunatly I havent seen any stations that offer refils otherwise its the way to go, fill up in your house for a few cents a liter.

LPG needs a big arse gas tank for starters think about a 100litre BBQ botel

There are many choices depending on what your space looks like- ive seen LPG bottles the shape of spare wheels to put in your spare wheel holder, or you could opt for a few long and thin bottles etc. The problem comes where people want both LPG and petrol tanks.

The 90L tank in my c3 vette, sits in the same space and SEEMS to take up less room than the old petrol tank- which must have been smaller- i get a longer range now. Then again the car runs LPG only so there was no issue in finding space for it.

[isszy]

The big tank issue has been solved by Ford in part by having 4 smaller tanks joined and put in the spare wheel well. I had LPG on my HQ Premier and had no problems. It ran dual fuel, so I had 150 litres of fuel on board when full. Almost every service station in Victoria sells both unleaded petrol and LPG.

The major problem with LPG is it's volatility. In properly engineered and maintained installations it is completely safe, but there are a number of backyarders who do it, and they cause problems ranging from how they bypass the fuel injection to unsafe filler locations. I cannot recall the last time I heard of a petrol tank exploding, but there are usually 2 or 3 LPG tank explosions reported each year. All can be traced to poor installation or maintenance.

When I ran LPG, the cost was about 25% of petrol, profiteering has reduced that back to about 50% of the cost of petrol. It takes about 25,000km to recover the cost of installation.