Diablo Sport Predator Power Programmer

[TprGTO-[Robo Fuzz]]

I just ordered my DiabloSport Predator Power Programmer from :D Ask for Alex, he is great to deal with. Best of all, they are IN STOCK!!!! Mention you are from this website and you will get a deal. I am very excitied, getting the unit tommorrow.
:thumbs:

[GTOdriver7]

how much did you pay?

[GTOdriver7]

how much did you pay???

[goat boy]

Thanks for the tip. I just ordered one this morning also. They said they have 40+ units in stock so I'll get it tomorrow.

[speed_demon_freak]

sH!T...........Congrats......watch out DY is gonna be after you for mentioning another vendor that is not a sponsor :D



LOL!!!

[OrangeCrushM6]

how much did you pay???

I talked to Alex.
Got it for $419 with FREE overnight shipping. What a deal!!!

[speed_demon_freak]

I paid 377.99 from Tbyrne. That included overnight shipping.

[TprGTO-[Robo Fuzz]]

I paid 377.99 from Tbyrne. That included overnight shipping.
That is a good deal. Except they do not have them in stock now, and I do not want to wait.

[Old Goat]

Got mine for $388.00 at T. Byrne's, and I went and picked it up. :(

[TprGTO-[Robo Fuzz]]

Got mine for $388.00 at T. Byrne's, and I went and picked it up.
Old Goat, any updates on your Predator? Any problems, praises and or advice?

[Old Goat]

Old Goat, any updates on your Predator? Any problems, praises and or advice?
The only thing I can suggest is to go to their Site and download the on-line version of the manual there for the U-7193. It has more pages and may be clearer to understand than the booklet that comes in the box. I will also be asking Tom for a custom tune. I want to set the RPM limiter at 6500 RPM and speed limiter at 180 MPH. The current 'performance tune' allows you to turn the RPM limiter on or off for each gear, but I did not see a way to adjust it, and there is no provision for adjusting the speed limiter, as delivered.

[GTO_Again]

The only thing I can suggest is to go to their Site and download the on-line version of the manual there for the U-7193. It has more pages and may be clearer to understand than the booklet that comes in the box. I will also be asking Tom for a custom tune. I want to set the RPM limiter at 6500 RPM and speed limiter at 180 MPH. The current 'performance tune' allows you to turn the RPM limiter on or off for each gear, but I did not see a way to adjust it, and there is no provision for adjusting the speed limiter, as delivered.


That is EXACTLY what I am looking for -

I wonder if we would get a price break if several people
wanted the same "modified" tune

Mine is an A4 and I already re-set the fans to my needs
but, I am definitely looking at changing those two parameters

[speed_demon_freak]

That is EXACTLY what I am looking for -

I wonder if we would get a price break if several people
wanted the same "modified" tune

Mine is an A4 and I already re-set the fans to my needs
but, I am definitely looking at changing those two parameters



What did you reset the fans to?

I left mine stock with the 160* thermostat install.

[GTO_Again]

What did you reset the fans to?

I left mine stock with the 160* thermostat install.

Stock A4 - my coolant temp is 194 F @ 70-80 MPH before and after my installation of "bug screens"

The fans were running all the time after the Predator Performance Tune install, so -

I reset to -

LO: On at 215*F, off again at 205*F

HI : On at 225*F, off again at 214*F

[FLORIT]

What did you reset the fans to?

I left mine stock with the 160* thermostat install.

Change your fan temps when you get the chance. On the tstat box there are some examples of where to set them to work best with your 160* tstat. Setting the fan temps to work with the tstat gives you the best results. Leaving the fan temps stock means the coolant MAY never get cold enough to close the 160* tstat while you're driving.

[speed_demon_freak]

I think that info is for their Cool Fan Switches. I dont know if that applies to the PowerStat too.


I will try and find out.

[DevilYellow]

Sorry but that link had to go, they are a direct competitor to one of our sponsors as well 3 other vendors I know sell predators.

DS regulates that the lowest advertised price can be $429.99, so you problably will get the best prices if you call vendors... dont expect to have the best prices posted.

Right now DS is out of stock on quite a few predators.

[mlc]

In light of the 05 news I was wondering if the Predator will work on the 05?

Anyone?

[TprGTO-[Robo Fuzz]]

In light of the 05 news I was wondering if the Predator will work on the 05?

Anyone?
For a definative answer, I would say to contact DiabloSport or a vendor to find out.

[DevilYellow]

Eventually they will have a new predator for the 05 when it comes out.

[Tails]

...I will also be asking Tom for a custom tune. I want to set the RPM limiter at 6500 RPM and speed limiter at 180 MPH. The current 'performance tune' allows you to turn the RPM limiter on or off for each gear, but I did not see a way to adjust it, and there is no provision for adjusting the speed limiter, as delivered.
I will be interested in upping the speed limiter as I will be going to the track this summer to see what the goat and I can do. Can you explain why you want to up the RPM limit? Isn't that scary?
:drink: :drink:

[TprGTO-[Robo Fuzz]]

Got my Predator tuner this morning from the prize truck (UPS). :bubbrub Install took only about 10 minutes. You guys are not kidding about firmer shifts...wow!!! :D You can definately feel the difference after installation. I highly recommend purchasing the unit. :thumbs:

[OrangeCrushM6]

Got my Predator tuner this morning from the prize truck (UPS). :bubbrub Install took only about 10 minutes. You guys are not kidding about firmer shifts...wow!!! :D You can definately feel the difference after installation. I highly recommend purchasing the unit. :thumbs:

Easy installation. 10 minutes. Installed performance tune. Took it out for a drive. The car definetly has a jumpier feel when revving. It feels livelier
in each gear. I have a G-tech pro which I'm going to run some times
with stock tune and performance tune. I know one guy up here with the
six-speed said it knocked off .15 sec. from his 0 to 60 time. I will be very
happy with those results. I'm just glad I'm now running with the performance tune knowing my engine is running more efficently. I'll report on my Gtech times
when I get um, having trouble finding a good stretch of flat road with virtually no traffic and no driveways.

[Old Goat]

Got my Predator tuner this morning from the prize truck (UPS). :bubbrub Install took only about 10 minutes. You guys are not kidding about firmer shifts...wow!!! :D You can definately feel the difference after installation. I highly recommend purchasing the unit. :thumbs:
Yeah, not bad for a generic tune huh? The transmission is like a whole new unit, and believe it or not, without downright abuse, should live a lot longer. Launches LOTS better than stock, and gear changes are right there. It would not surprise me to see the tenth second differential between the stick and auto is now gone. The engine is a lot healthier too. After playing a little, it get's that deep idle purr, and lopes a bit more probably due to timing, and I think the spark retard and a lot of Torque Management and Abuse Prevention is toned down. Whatever it left behind in those regards is welcome to stay. It's no longer hyperactive in any event. I don't even notice it any more getting in my face. The car does what it's told, when it's told. :D

[Old Goat]

Easy installation. 10 minutes. Installed performance tune. Took it out for a drive. The car definetly has a jumpier feel when revving. It feels livelier
in each gear. I have a G-tech pro which I'm going to run some times
with stock tune and performance tune. I know one guy up here with the
six-speed said it knocked off .15 sec. from his 0 to 60 time. I will be very
happy with those results. I'm just glad I'm now running with the performance tune knowing my engine is running more efficently. I'll report on my Gtech times
when I get um, having trouble finding a good stretch of flat road with virtually no traffic and no driveways.
Sometimes a great big freaking parking lot can suffice. Just make sure it's REAL big... :D

[Old Goat]

I will be interested in upping the speed limiter as I will be going to the track this summer to see what the goat and I can do. Can you explain why you want to up the RPM limit? Isn't that scary?
:drink: :drink:
Nah! The LS2 with it's larger and heavier rotating mass is set to 6500 RPM. I have to say this engine runs smoother than any I have seen before NOT custom balanced. A glass of water balanced on the TB hardly quivers except for cam lope. I'm sure the engine can handle it. GM loves safety margins, and who can blame them. 300 RPM shouldn't break the bank. The same nodular iron crank material is in there. JMHO

[gto_in_nc]

...having trouble finding a good stretch of flat road with virtually no traffic and no driveways.

Guy I knew years ago, back in the mid-70's, had just totally rebuilt his Monte Carlo. First time he floors it, the pedal snags in the new shag carpet (mid-70's, remember?) Rather than turn the key, he reaches down and pulls the pedal free from the rug and looks up just in time to see the brand-new white 'Vette (with paper tags) backing out into the street in front of him. Not a pleasant day for anyone involved. No one maimed but the 'Vette was torn in two...

[Old Goat]

Guy I knew years ago, back in the mid-70's, had just totally rebuilt his Monte Carlo. First time he floors it, the pedal snags in the new shag carpet (mid-70's, remember?) Rather than turn the key, he reaches down and pulls the pedal free from the rug and looks up just in time to see the brand-new white 'Vette (with paper tags) backing out into the street in front of him. Not a pleasant day for anyone involved. No one maimed but the 'Vette was torn in two...
Oh man! Serious Nightmare... :(

[Tails]

Nah! The LS2 with it's larger and heavier rotating mass is set to 6500 RPM. I have to say this engine runs smoother than any I have seen before NOT custom balanced. A glass of water balanced on the TB hardly quivers except for cam lope. I'm sure the engine can handle it. GM loves safety margins, and who can blame them. 300 RPM shouldn't break the bank. The same nodular iron crank material is in there. JMHO
Okay I understand your trust but let me rephrase my second question. What will upping the limit get you. Are you changing the shift points to take advantage of it? I guess I could understand more on an M6.
:drink: :drink:

[Old Goat]

Okay I understand your trust but let me rephrase my second question. What will upping the limit get you. Are you changing the shift points to take advantage of it? I guess I could understand more on an M6.
:drink: :drink:
Just gaining the headroom now in case I want to do a loose converter and up the shift points later on. Also thinking on the driveshaft, halfshafts, center section including the new cover form OZ, and rear end geometry which any of those things might hazard or worsen.

[Tails]

Just gaining the headroom now in case I want to do a loose converter and up the shift points later on. Also thinking on the driveshaft, halfshafts, center section including the new cover form OZ, and rear end geometry which any of those things might hazard or worsen.
You are my hero. Or at least the lemming that I follow off the cliff.
:drink: :drink:

[Tinman]

:confused: :eek: :mad:

[RWTD]

Where can I order from someone with them in stock, could someone PM me?

I'll have some in stock soon. DiabloSport has had a major backorder on a lot of different part #'s (Ford and GM) in the last few weeks, due to the fact of supply and demand. This should all be rectified soon for all dealers and customers.

Everyone, I would HIGHLY suggest that you purchase your Predator from a reputable TUNING dealer (especially one that sponsors your favorite GTO website ;)). One that has DiabloSport's ChipMaster-Revolution capabilities, and especially one that has had years of experience in tuning vehicles, especially GM (ahem again :D). I am also a very close friend with the the employees of DiabloSport, therefore I can assure you that I consistently keep myself in the loop concerning current and future releases and products from DiabloSport.

I give FREE true custom tuning for anyone who purchases from me. Just because you buy it for $20 and $40 cheaper here and there does not mean real savings, especially considering when you need experienced custom tuning to go along with it (btw, anyone not following MAP pricing guidelines by DiabloSport are subject to having their ability to sell DiabloSport products revoked). Consider the fact of experience and who may actually be programming your expensive vehicle.

Also consider that I have a Custom Tuning Support Website that is specifically dedicated to custom tuning and my customers, as well as future customers. Please visit www.DiabloSportTuning.com for more information. The forum is completely private, which means that only the thread starter and the Admins can view their threads/posts.

Very Sincerely,

James - RWTD
www.RunninWithTheDevil.com
www.DiabloSportTuning.com

[Tinman]

Ate those words

[Old Goat]

You are my hero. Or at least the lemming that I follow off the cliff.
:drink: :drink:
We better stick to the lemming par...WHA! "Splash"....blub.blub.blub... :drink: :drink: :drink: :D

[TprGTO-[Robo Fuzz]]

Easy installation. 10 minutes. Installed performance tune. Took it out for a drive. The car definetly has a jumpier feel when revving. It feels livelier
in each gear. I have a G-tech pro which I'm going to run some times
with stock tune and performance tune. I know one guy up here with the
six-speed said it knocked off .15 sec. from his 0 to 60 time. I will be very
happy with those results. I'm just glad I'm now running with the performance tune knowing my engine is running more efficently. I'll report on my Gtech times
when I get um, having trouble finding a good stretch of flat road with virtually no traffic and no driveways.
Congrads on getting yours too. I think you will be the first on this website to install a predator on an M6.

[OrangeCrushM6]

Congrads on getting yours too. I think you will be the first on this website to install a predator on an M6.

Thanks

There is a thread(don't feel like looking for it), but it has one guy with the
6 speed who has used it. He was very happy. Brought his 0 to 60 time
down by about .15 seconds. I'm really glad I have this tool.

[Huntress]

I must say if you get one from the guy make sure you thank Huntress.....she is the one who found the ebay auction.
Now there's the love :D

[Huntress]

Just wish I had thought of 2 daying it... I can wait... maybe :D

[phobos512]

Thanks for the link Huntress and DBlue :)

[Tinman]

Just wish I had thought of 2 daying it... I can wait... maybe :D

I'd also like to thank you Huntress Ate those too...

[TprGTO-[Robo Fuzz]]

I'd also like to thank you Huntress, I ordered mine yesterday from the posted link and mine will be here in about (at most) 10 hours... W00T
Mine cost me 339.99 w/O-Nite shipping. I'm happy with the cost and I'll be glad to get rid of that A4 pus_y shift!
You will be amazed after the install and get to drive it. This will make the grin on your face grow bigger.

[RWTD]

All those who are buying the Predator from completely unauthorized sellers and websites such as eBay, please read this from DiabloSport:

NO WARRANTY/DiabloSport Products on E-bay (http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showthread.php ?t=7815)

(click on link above)


We want to make it clear to customers that DiabloSport, as with many companies these days, do not allow the sale of DiabloSport products on E-bay, or any other auction site of its kind.
This said, regardless of what a seller may claim, products bought on these sites, or from dealers who advertise the sale of DiabloSport products using these sites, are without DiabloSport factory warranty, or backing on revision or update information. Proof of purchase will be required from now on to receive support from DiabloSport.
We have asked dealers stop selling on these sites, but many feel they are beyond the rules that apply to them by the manufacturer, because in all cases they are buying third party or more, which means they rarely have the ability to offer you support, custom tunes or the things you would expect as a customer.
This hurts the hard working dealers forced to support these sales, and hurts DiabloSport as a whole when the profitability in the product line hurts dyno tuning dealers, and shops in general. People you the end user turn to for help on making power and to get tuning, only to find they now can not compete and still survive, so they will not help you.

We hope you see our point on these important issues.

Thanks

[ZillaGTO]

I would say the only concern with the eBay purchase is you can't get updates from diablosport which I would expect might be useful. the warranty is no biggy as i agree with Dbluegoat that you don't find many issues these days. I only paid 377 through Tbyrne including overnight so it was worth 50 bucks for me to be able to get tunes and updates to the unit.

[Tinman]

Ya Know, I would have had No Problem buying from a dealer and having the support that is offered. In fact, I was mislead in this purchase, I thought I had done exactly that. No One Had Them In Stock as far as the sponsorsed dealers here and when I want something, I want it Now, and I'm paying for my impatience. I can see diablo doing all they can to support thier dealers, after all, that's what it is all about. That Said..
If worst came to worst, screw it, I'd buy another one!

It's raining today and it's 11:15 AM, no predator yet, and all the roads are soaked. Test driving won't be all it can be today.
When it rains it pours...

[mlc]

I've had good luck and bad on ebay. I might have bought one on ebay for that price but didn't see this thread in time. Not wanting to wait for the back orders to get filled I found a dealer willing to sell one for $380 including shipping.

Now that I think about it, for only $40 I get a warranty! I'm sleeping better.

[phobos512]

Everyone talks about updates to the Predator but if you go to the DiabloSport website you'll see the following:

"2) Predator Updates for GM

Current versions of the Predator for GM don't support remote updates. The future releases might have this feature enabled."

So as far as updates go, I'd have to say, nyah.

And as far as warranty goes, DiabloSport cannot take away the warranty without posting somewhere on their website and on all packaging that its invalid. This is according to California and Illinois state law (and probably other states...I have fought this and won on several occassions, particularly with EBay purchased items). A reasonable person standard applies and why if you are buying from an authorized dealer would a reasonable person not expect to have a warranty? That they tell authorized dealers these things and not the general public means they don't have a legal leg to stand on.

California Civil Code
Song Beverly Consumer Warranty Act

1792. Unless disclaimed in the manner prescribed by this chapter,
every sale of consumer goods that are sold at retail in this state
shall be accompanied by the manufacturer's and the retail seller's
implied warranty that the goods are merchantable. The retail seller
shall have a right of indemnity against the manufacturer in the
amount of any liability under this section.

1792.3. No implied warranty of merchantability and, where
applicable, no implied warranty of fitness shall be waived, except in
the case of a sale of consumer goods on an "as is" or "with all
faults" basis where the provisions of this chapter affecting "as is"
or "with all faults" sales are strictly complied with.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=civ&group=01001-02000&file=1792-1795.7

[ZillaGTO]

my understanding is that the 04 is the new GM model and that referred to the 98 to 03 GM model, and the 04 does accept updates.

I doubt the product "won't work" so it won't be a problem and they say lifetime guarantee without any parameters i can find.

I do think that the updates are still good to get. But certainly eBay is fine to purchase from. I wonder what they would say when you email them for an update? Also, if they don't want people to sell it on ebay why sell that distributor the product at all?

[speed_demon_freak]

No One Had Them In Stock as far as the sponsorsed dealers here and when I want something, I want it Now, and I'm paying for my impatience.


How about it. You click on a sponsor and they say "5-12-04 - 2004 GM V8 (including GTO) Predator Released!" You expect that the company who all they do is sell the Predator to have some in stock. Hell they cant even update their website and include the GTO but yet they are one of the main companies selling the product?

If they had them in stock they i'm sure more people would of bought them from that sponsor site.

[OrangeCrushM6]

You can use the Predator on any GM vehicle with OBDII computer, however you can't
use any tuning parameters. You can use it for diagnostics and codes.

[Huntress]

You can use the Predator on any GM vehicle with OBDII computer, however you can't
use any tuning parameters. You can use it for diagnostics and codes.
That's actually very cool. :thumbs:

[Warren]

The REASON our sponsors are backordered is because of this site?? Anyone thought of this?

I really think that saving $100 bucks is not worth being left out of updates or bugs that may show up after a while.

[Warren]

What will an update do now that the tune is already installed on the car? And what kind of bug would come up?
To tell you the truth, I have no idea. I do know that RWTD has posted about no warranty with an eBay purchase, and I do trust that. I also know how quirky my computer is sometimes. With that in mind, that is why I would rather have the peace of mind with a warranty.

I really do not have any experience with the predator at all, but what I have read, it is a very good purchase. I just want us to support our sponsers. :p MHO is not always right, I know that. :drink:

[DevilYellow]

What will an update do now that the tune is already installed on the car? And what kind of bug would come up?

There are alot of things that are not in the predators program that can be edited with the chipmaster program (expensive and only sold to shops). Slowly alot of those advanced features will work their way into the predators abilities.

[ZillaGTO]

I don't think they are a bad company for doing this. In fact we would all be pissed if we bought this product and it screwed up our cars. What they are trying to do is say we don't authorize these dealers to sell this product outside or our guidelines so we can maintain quality. That seems good to me. I think price has very little to do with it because tbyrne was selling for nearly the same price.

And you can't claim you didn't know what your purchasing because here we are talking about it. It is simplye being a smart consumer. When you learn there is an issue and you have been warned you shouldn't complain if things don't work out. I think it is better to go with what is safe when it comes to reflashing the computer on a 30k plus car.

Most companies have this policy. It is hard to think of any that simply let their products fly out the door without some regulation of the how's, why's, and how much.

[JRM346]

DY:

You have just answered the question that I was pondering while driving through the overspeed alarm on Highway 101. I figured that there were lots of parameters and a custom program that could be generated beyond the Predator user programming. Thanks!

[cjlannoy]

back to the topic at hand, how does the predator hook up to the car, do you need a laptop? also, how would a predator tune compare to a dyno tune in terms of performance and price?

[cjlannoy]

thanks, any idea what a dyno tune costs?

[tiggerfan]

thanks, any idea what a dyno tune costs?

Here in tampa - 400/hr for ls1edit work. Thats about the norm for good tuners.

I've got hptuners and while I'm still fighting a bit of knock, I've managed to get the fuel trims into place and that his helping the knock big time. Last run I took I averaged less then 2% KR down low, with about 20% up high (but only on a few cells, I don't have a lot of high rpm data yet). This was a lot worse yesterday. I also kicked up the upper end of the PE table to try and work on the lean condition the gto goes into at about 4500 rpm, but I think I might need to go even bigger on it. My online calculator has made life a LOT easier with figuring out what is going on with the car.

[cjlannoy]

thanks.

[ZillaGTO]

You know I thought about this more. While I appreciate a company maintaining some control, you are right about the only people being hurt are the end users. One important thing that occured to me is that if they are that worried about those companies selling it on eBay then stop sending the product to those companies.

Back to topic...
....once hooked up to the OBD port you can do diagnotics like read and reset engine codes as well.

[Tinman]

I've installed my predator, modified the tune and I will modify it even more before I am done. Everyone is right, this thing really rocks. My ebay purchase which I was mislead on, hopefully won't come back and bite me in the ...

I am pleased with the price I paid. But if Diablo has such a strict policy about where you buy from they should say so, or atleast ask you to read blah blah blah link about purchasing your Predator from the wrong type of vendor / ebay. Not one thing is mentioned about not where to get it, only where you can make your PURCHASE. Sheesh, with all the cash they are pulling in for these things the last person affected from dealer abuse should be the joe smoe consumer. And taking it out on joe smoe instead of the folks selling it (DEALER) certainly shows what type of company your really dealing with. If they can't monitor the dealers and or make it clear to them, I don't see where it is joe smoe's fault for purchasing there. That is the worst approach to consumer satisfaction I have ever seen. "So sorry Tinman, you bought this off of ebay from one of our authorized dealers that shouldn't have been selling it there, and we are going to punish you, not the dealer." PFFFFFTTTT

Have a Nice Day :)

[RWTD]

You know I thought about this more. While I appreciate a company maintaining some control, you are right about the only people being hurt are the end users. One important thing that occured to me is that if they are that worried about those companies selling it on eBay then stop sending the product to those companies.

I don't think you understand. This company on eBay has NOT signed any Dealer Terms of Agreement, nor has many of these 2nd and 3rd party (and even 4th) vendors who are selling to other companies, individuals, or whomever. They are in turn acquiring the product to sell illegally. Warranties do NOT have to be honored when the product is received from those who have acquired it illegally.

Many companies prohibit their products from being sold on Auction websites, and advertised anywhere for less than the TOA MAP dictates. Microsoft, Clarion, Alpine, Blaupunkt, Sony, you name it. It's a major issue that is becoming even more problemsome every ongoing day. eBay is not making it any easier, either. Does anyone recall mp3 technology and the abuse of it? How about movies now? All this spans from similar activities. You can't allow individuals and/or companies to run rampant, ever!

There has been a major backorder on many DiabloSport products lately because of supply and demand. On top of this, there is a distributor which is selling Predators that they have in stock to anyone who calls in to order them (thanks to an individual on this forum for pointing that out, although done innocently). This is really wrong considering the fact that these distributor's are ONLY suppose to sell to their specific dealers. This makes the backordered status even worse for certain companies.

The consumers are ultimately hurt when the product has been devalued to nothing. All this is old news, and apparently the newness of this site has resparked the old issue yet again. In time it will die down, and more and more will start becoming conscious about buying the product from honest and legitimate dealers. There is so much more to have offered to DiabloSport consumers when they deal with DiabloSport's "ChipMaster-Revolution" dealers.

Those who have bought from me, have already gone over to my Custom Tuning Support Website and already started receiving their free "true" custom tuning, specifically tailored to their vehicle, modifications, climate, types of fuel used, and the owner's wants, needs, and wishes. Those who would have bought from me would have already had this, as well.

Very Kind Regards,

James - RWTD
DiabloSport ChipMaster-Revolution Dealer
www.RunninWithTheDevil.com
www.DiabloSportTuning.com

[Huntress]

I don't think you understand. This company on eBay has NOT signed any Dealer Terms of Agreement, nor has many of these 2nd and 3rd party (and even 4th) vendors who are selling to other companies, individuals, or whomever. They are in turn acquiring the product to sell illegally.

Exactly how do these get into the hands of these people? To me this is the manufacturers fault, NOT the end comsumer. I think we understand very well.

[Tinman]

[QUOTE=RWTD]I don't think you understand. This company on eBay has NOT signed any Dealer Terms of Agreement, nor has many of these 2nd and 3rd party (and even 4th) vendors who are selling to other companies, individuals, or whomever. They are in turn acquiring the product to sell illegally. Warranties do NOT have to be honored when the product is received from those who have acquired it illegally.[QUOTE]

I follow you now, I didn't even think they were obtainable unless you were a dealer... so much for my ignorance. That really pisses me off. Had I been aware as I am now I would have never purchased from him. I sent him a nasty gram for more info on him, if he is a REAL dealer etc.. which of course as I understand now, HE ISN'T. I now feel I have done the dealers here and everywhere along with Diablo an injustice. I hope I'll be able to make it up.
Sorry to all involved, and excuse my ignorance, I really didn't know. I thought anyone selling these had to be a dealer just to get them to begin with... DuH

[Huntress]

Maybe I am more ignorant than you Tinman... I still do not understand how they are getting them.

[ZillaGTO]

I appreciate the response from a vendor. I see both sides of this. Without a doubt the consumers deserver some protection as it is hard for them to know what is legit. I would think it would benefit the consumer, dealer and manufacturer if the manufacturer put a note on the front page of their website stating this issue. Basically then it is buyer beware as the manufacturer has pointed out an issue of illegal items getting out to consumers.

Let us not be naive to think that illegal products aren't rampant and ebay most definately deserves some blame as it is a "free for all" market place. Of course a lot of good has come from that. I bought mine from a dealer because I believe that when it comes to these types of items it is extremely important. I will not trust my car to just anyone and I feel that is a risk with any non sanctioned dealer. I certainly would not buy heads or exhaust from a questionable source and the same apply's here.

The problem is how do we know. Nothing is mentioned on the websites and if not for this discussion it would not even be known to most. I applaud James for sticking his neck out to try to explain. It is certainly not his fault and he is certainly feeling hurt by what basically amounts to "unfair competition". Regardless of how right wing and capitalist I become (and believe me I am!) I always keep in mind that any bargain usually has a hidden cost somewhere. If we say we only care about cost then we eventually lose service and complain about not getting support.

I would certainly not take the attitude of "I didn't know better" at this point in the discussion as it is clearly out there. That apply's to the manufacturer especially as well as end users. But definately the manufacturer needs to take some initiative to get out a message.

Bottom line is the buyer should be smart and not fall for some idea of hidden deals and the attitude that it is not "their problem" but on the flip side the manufacturer should step up to the plate to protect themselves.

[Huntress]

I appreciate the response from a vendor. I see both sides of this. Without a doubt the consumers deserver some protection as it is hard for them to know what is legit. I would think it would benefit the consumer, dealer and manufacturer if the manufacturer put a note on the front page of their website stating this issue. Basically then it is buyer beware as the manufacturer has pointed out an issue of illegal items getting out to consumers.

Let us not be naive to think that illegal products aren't rampant and ebay most definately deserves some blame as it is a "free for all" market place. Of course a lot of good has come from that. I bought mine from a dealer because I believe that when it comes to these types of items it is extremely important. I will not trust my car to just anyone and I feel that is a risk with any non sanctioned dealer. I certainly would not buy heads or exhaust from a questionable source and the same apply's here.

The problem is how do we know. Nothing is mentioned on the websites and if not for this discussion it would not even be known to most. I applaud James for sticking his neck out to try to explain. It is certainly not his fault and he is certainly feeling hurt by what basically amounts to "unfair competition". Regardless of how right wing and capitalist I become (and believe me I am!) I always keep in mind that any bargain usually has a hidden cost somewhere. If we say we only care about cost then we eventually lose service and complain about not getting support.

I would certainly not take the attitude of "I didn't know better" at this point in the discussion as it is clearly out there. That apply's to the manufacturer especially as well as end users. But definately the manufacturer needs to take some initiative to get out a message.

Bottom line is the buyer should be smart and not fall for some idea of hidden deals and the attitude that it is not "their problem" but on the flip side the manufacturer should step up to the plate to protect themselves.
I agree with you... had this been on the manufacturers website I would not have purchased mine from Ebay... and unfortunately I have. In the meantime I am quite PO'd that it was lost on the manufacturer's forum. It wasn't that I hadn't been there.

[Tinman]

I would certainly not take the attitude of "I didn't know better" at this point in the discussion as it is clearly out there. .

I hope that wasn't directed at me :confused:

[Old Goat]

Thanks to Tinman, I was able to locate the RPM Limiter for the Predator. It is set up a little funny, so I took it for a simple on or off setting. Nope! As Tinman pointed out, if you select each forward gear and hit 'Enter', a slider is displayed. The Predator default is set to 6,189 in each gear. I moved all mine up to 6,489 for all four forwards (and the 5th and 6th as well). I roaded it for over an hour, and all is well. It also seems to have crossadjusted the shift points up a tad as well. DiabloSport would know, I'm just guessing. All I have left to desire is moving the Speed Limiter up, and I am waiting on contact from DiabloSport on that now... :thumbs: Thanks Tinman!

[ZillaGTO]

Tinman no not to anyone who already is in it. My point was anyone coming ot this thread to learn can't say they didn't know now that it is out there. And of course that the manufacturer can't say they don't know it's a problem now as well. I hope I didn't offend you.

And Dbluegoat I am not saying at all it is only consumer but let's be real and not pretend that cheap is all that matters and that we as the consumer have no responsibility to know what were buying. No one on this board is that naive. If we now know that something is going on like this we should be helping to stop it. this doesn't relate to MP3's and rock stars, i doubt the few hundred of us who buy this for the GTO make them real rich so I don't mind doing the right thing.

But it does make sense for this thread to either split or stay on topic.... sorry.... for being part of the off topic.

[Old Goat]

Sorry to keep taking this thread off track......now back to business.......So OG are there any possible negative effects from changing those parameters? Are there benefits or is this just a personal preference?
thanks OG
Wanted the headroom for other possible mods, both in programming and new hard parts for the engine, like H&C upgrade. I want to make sure I get the powertrain at peak efficiency without going into the red zone and hazarding anything. I am sure the added 300 RPM to the Rev Limiter's mormal 6,200 RPM is within the safety margin GM allowed for the LS1. The LS2 interestingly, with more rotating mass and the same materials used, is redlined at 6,500 RPM. It does seem to have similultaneously moved the shift points up, so I will be looking at the transmission adjustments next and comparing GM's settings, the Predator defaults, and where they are now. There is no way I want to bend this car. There is performance within the design limitations we can tap without getting carried away. JMHO

[phobos512]

The fact that certain dealers are willing to sell the Predator for $100 less than the "suggested" retail price is certainly telling. They wouldn't do this unless they were raking in the profits on this thing. That hurts the consumer too.

And RWTD, as far as these thigns being sold "illegally", there's no law that requires a product be sold at the manufacturer says it must be sold at. Granted, there are contractual obligations SOMETIMES, but a contract does not the law make. Sorry.

Finally, just how is DS going to stop people from downloading updates? I just downloaded all the Ford ones by going to their website and clicking on the file. Who said anything about having to email them for authorization?

[ZillaGTO]

phobos512 way off topic here but I really need to learn more about the hardwired Valentive one, we are on the same upgrade path it seems! You aren't by chance looking at wheels too?

[Tinman]

Tinman no not to anyone who already is in it. My point was anyone coming ot this thread to learn can't say they didn't know now that it is out there. And of course that the manufacturer can't say they don't know it's a problem now as well. I hope I didn't offend you.

Naw, was a bit confused is all. Thanks for clearing that up ZillaGTO :)

I hope it stops raining soon, I wanna go out and play.

[Jodi]

Well here are a couple of questions.
I tried to up the shift mph/rpm from 3rd to 4th. Didn't get any results. Any suggestions? I'm wondering if you have to change 1st-2nd, 2nd-3rd, and 3rd-4th to have the mod take. Maybe I'll try what OldGoat did with the limiter.
Second, I bought the power supply and PC cable to hook it up to my home computer. Downloaded the program from Diablo, hooked it up, downloaded the Predator files, and don't see anything in the menu to open the downloaded file. Anyone tried and had success with this?

[2loco]

Do you think it would be a Benefit to actually do this to an M6? power differences? anyone has done it PM me or just keep posting results im interested in what its done.

[Old Goat]

Well here are a couple of questions.
I tried to up the shift mph/rpm from 3rd to 4th. Didn't get any results. Any suggestions? I'm wondering if you have to change 1st-2nd, 2nd-3rd, and 3rd-4th to have the mod take. Maybe I'll try what OldGoat did with the limiter.
Second, I bought the power supply and PC cable to hook it up to my home computer. Downloaded the program from Diablo, hooked it up, downloaded the Predator files, and don't see anything in the menu to open the downloaded file. Anyone tried and had success with this?
I have to get by Radio Shack and pick up a transformer for it, then I'll jump on it. Soon. I want to copy and preserve the stock tune, and save modified tunes off the Predator. I think (and I'll know better when I get the transformer) That you can mod the Predator tune in the Predator and save them on a computer to backload to the Predator for installation when you wish. I think you'd have to have the programming language to work on them in the computer. Their 'program' seems to be a save cataloger and library handler, not the actual programmer I think Jodi.

[Dbluegoat]

Not to keep beating a dead horse but I recently emailed Diablosport about the warranty issue.....I asked them if I got a warranty on the product regardless of where I purchased it.
The response came today and they said yes.
So this whole crap about buying from ebay and not getting a warranty is well.....BS

Sorry to take this thread off track again but I felt I should post that. I am done discussing this.

[DANSLS1]

What data logging capabilities does the predator have? I'm not really interested in second guessing GM until I can see some data showing information during runs - A/F ratios and such. Can you plug the predator in, drive and log a bunch of data, then dl it to your computer to see what's going on?
Dan

[OrangeCrushM6]

What data logging capabilities does the predator have? I'm not really interested in second guessing GM until I can see some data showing information during runs - A/F ratios and such. Can you plug the predator in, drive and log a bunch of data, then dl it to your computer to see what's going on?
Dan

Dan, I believe you are able to do that. I think optimally you would dyno
your car and tweak some parameters based on the dyno reports. For now
I installed the performance tune(automatically gets rid of CAGS) and
I have noticed that the car revs more aggressive. I don't feel it in the seat
of the pants, but it does feel more responsive. I'm gonna do some testing
with my Gtech with stock tune and performance tune to see actual results.
I have no doubt the performance tune is gonna make me smile. By the way
you can use the predator on any OBDII car for diagnostics, code resetting,
stuff like that. Obviously you can't use the tune feature.

[RWTD]

Maybe I am more ignorant than you Tinman... I still do not understand how they are getting them.

Where there is a will there is a way. They are getting them through 2nd and 3rd parties, just as you did. It's really hard to control everyone, and it is even harder to control rouge dealers and even distributors (especially the distributors selling to individuals outside of their dealer network). Think of them as "Sleeper Cells", lol. Some individuals and companies have a knack for doing things improperly and/or illegally in this business, without any regard to the damage that they do.


The fact that certain dealers are willing to sell the Predator for $100 less than the "suggested" retail price is certainly telling. They wouldn't do this unless they were raking in the profits on this thing. That hurts the consumer too.

There isn't any profit for any of us legitimate dealers if we sold them at $100 less than the MAP of $419. Take a DiabloSport ChipMaster-Revolution dealer, like myself, for example. I sell and support the tool for as long as the customer owns it, give as much custom tuning for free as needed (this may not always be the case, although I have been doing it for 1.5 years now), do all the follow up work with the customer that allows them to speak with and email me personally, and I am in constant communications with DiabloSport to help bring a better product to the market for everyone (I have personally worked with their Operations Coordinator, Johan, over the last couple of years to hone in their GM Revolution into being the greatest peace of GM tuning software available, period)! Find a lot of profit in all that I offer/do? It isn't nearly as much as you're making it seem after it's all said in done. However, I'm able to work with what profit I do make because of all the services and support that I offer, which in turn builds my customer base and customer loyalty.

All in all, the tool is a BARGAIN for $419, especially considering the potential in the future that it can and will offer with new and exciting features and upgrades.


And RWTD, as far as these thigns being sold "illegally", there's no law that requires a product be sold at the manufacturer says it must be sold at. Granted, there are contractual obligations SOMETIMES, but a contract does not the law make. Sorry.

MAP (Minimum Advertised Pricing) and Advertising Standards (in the method of where and how it is advertised) are rampant through the retail industry and for good reason. A company has the lawful right to enforce them, period. Companies also have the lawful right to control where/how their trademarks, copyrights, and products are advertised, displayed, and sold.


Finally, just how is DS going to stop people from downloading updates? I just downloaded all the Ford ones by going to their website and clicking on the file. Who said anything about having to email them for authorization?

Keep in mind that there is not any online update offerings for the GM tools, and there may not be with the current tooling software that is used for them. All GM updates have to be done by sending the tool in to DiabloSport at this time.


Diablo can take care of the custom tune for no charge.

Actually, that is not true. They do not give out free custom tunes anymore. Per Chris at DiabloSport, verbatim:

"We don't do free custom tunes!"

DiabloSport does the right thing and sends the consumer to honest DiabloSport ChipMaster-Revolution Dealers for custom tuning. Again, this is why any consumer should purchase their product from a dealer that is able to *fully* support them.


Not to keep beating a dead horse but I recently emailed Diablosport about the warranty issue.....I asked them if I got a warranty on the product regardless of where I purchased it.
The response came today and they said yes.
So this whole crap about buying from ebay and not getting a warranty is well.....BS

Actually, I was talking with DiabloSport earlier and they are working on getting this more open about their policy on non-eBay warranties. I'm not sure whom the email came from that you have, but this will ultimately be a policy that is rigorously enforced.

All in all, until that policy is strictly enforced and more prominently stated, I'm sure DiabloSport will work with all customers who have previously purchased DiabloSport products from unauthorized dealers unknowingly. The company is all about customer service, just as I am, and this is one major reason I have always done business with them.

Very Sincerely,

James - RWTD
DiabloSport ChipMaster-Revolution Custom Tuning Dealer
www.RunninWithTheDevil.com
www.DiabloSportTuning.com

[2loco]

I just purchased mine tonight i guess its in the mail, i know i read somewhere that someone with an M6 has it did it make a difference or not???????? thx for feedback im really curious!

[Huntress]

I have mine... WAY WAY IMPRESSED :D

[2loco]

We will see i have to wait till next week tho!

[mlc]

I just got mine today and installed the performance tune. Much improved over stock. I can't say it throws me back in the seat more but it does seem to tach better. and it definitely showed more gusto going from 2nd to 3rd. this was the first time I got wheel hop at 50 mph! Just to be sure it was the tune I backed out of the tune and ran the same street - no wheel hop. so there is some improvement. the next step for me is to head back to Performance Dyne and get some real numbers.

[Razinhell]

I can see this from both sides, but i think the legalities of this topic of who to buy from and at what price are a little like http://www.tutor2u.net/economics/content/topics/mo nopoly/price_fixing.htm
I see it this way. Support the sponsors of this site. Otherwise we wouldn't have it. Give the sponsors a chance to win your business before you go and ebay everything. I see many of us saying that we wish we could find a good car dealer that would see us as a long time investment then just the next person buying a car. Why is that different with tuners and other products?
In the end i'd rather deal with our sponsors because i believe they give a shit about my car working the best it can. :sneaky:

On a side note I took a look at Diablosports website and noticed they had a PC connect kit. On this page they note that you can buy the kit from them. They also go on to say you can just buy these parts from any store (DB9 cable and power supply) and even post the measurments of the connector needed and an actual part number from radioshack to buy it. I also notice that the current Predator for the GTO doesn't support remote update. Current versions of the Predator for GM don't support remote updates. The future releases might have this feature enabled. But they do give you all the software in the world to use with all the Data you just collected off your car. :bubbrub

[Tigger]

Does anybody know if installing a performance tune knocks you out of F Stock in autocross? Obviously, it would be very hard for anybody to challenge you unless you say something, but I'm not interested in playing that game. I haven't decided yet whether to get the Predator, but this is one of the questions that has come to mind.

[mlc]

Does anybody know if installing a performance tune knocks you out of F Stock in autocross? Obviously, it would be very hard for anybody to challenge you unless you say something, but I'm not interested in playing that game. I haven't decided yet whether to get the Predator, but this is one of the questions that has come to mind.

I don't know the answer but if your not going to race for points does it matter what class your in. When I go I racing against myself and don't care about the class, only that I can race.

[Tigger]

I don't know the answer but if your not going to race for points does it matter what class your in. When I go I racing against myself and don't care about the class, only that I can race.True, but if I happen to do well enough to take a trophy, I'd hate to have somebody raise a protest on a technicality like this.