Alignment and tires

[scgoat]

We've had the goat since April now and have had it in the shop twice for alignment issues, they kept telling me that the car was not pulling but that I wasnt used to "feeling" the road after driving a Suburban for so long. Well I was washing the wheels and had the wheels turned and found that the inside of both front tires are BALD! Straight to the dealer I go! Note that the 2nd time I had it in I made the service manager drive the car, now I show him the tires and he was speachless. The checked the car again and found it WAY out of spec. They said its been adjusted and that my new tires are on order. Anyone else have problems like this? I'm used to driving with one finger but not in the goat, thought that this was normal, what do ya'll think?

[Dbluegoat]

We've had the goat since April now and have had it in the shop twice for alignment issues, they kept telling me that the car was not pulling but that I wasnt used to "feeling" the road after driving a Suburban for so long. Well I was washing the wheels and had the wheels turned and found that the inside of both front tires are BALD! Straight to the dealer I go! Note that the 2nd time I had it in I made the service manager drive the car, now I show him the tires and he was speachless. The checked the car again and found it WAY out of spec. They said its been adjusted and that my new tires are on order. Anyone else have problems like this? I'm used to driving with one finger but not in the goat, thought that this was normal, what do ya'll think?
it figures they give you that line "oh your not used to it cause you drove a suburban" they wil do anything to avoid an issue. At least you got to throw it back in their face..........there is no way that is normal...I have been able to take my hands off the wheel at 90+ for a second or more and it stills holds true to the road...

[Holeshot]

We've had the goat since April now and have had it in the shop twice for alignment issues, they kept telling me that the car was not pulling but that I wasnt used to "feeling" the road after driving a Suburban for so long. Well I was washing the wheels and had the wheels turned and found that the inside of both front tires are BALD! Straight to the dealer I go! Note that the 2nd time I had it in I made the service manager drive the car, now I show him the tires and he was speachless. The checked the car again and found it WAY out of spec. They said its been adjusted and that my new tires are on order. Anyone else have problems like this? I'm used to driving with one finger but not in the goat, thought that this was normal, what do ya'll think?
I posted this way back when
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2187

[mistermike]

If they replace the tires, take the car to a front end shop that has a Hunter 9700 balancer with the straight track LFM option. http://128.242.141.111/pub/search/findgsp9700.cfm
It has a roller that engages the tire and can detect pulling issues due to the tire itself. Additionally, if you're lucky enough to find a truly experienced front end guy, he can tweak the front end beyond factory spec and detect any thrust angle issues with the right alignment rack. I wouldn't suspect that the change from Holden 18" rims to GTO 17" would influence alignment, but only an expert could really say.

[BowdawG]

How many miles SCGOAT?? I remember one of the early magazine reviews (motortrend???) said they had their car in an alignment shop for several hours. No pulling with mine, and I intend on rotating every 3000 miles to keep tire wear even all around :-)

[scgoat]

How many miles SCGOAT?? I remember one of the early magazine reviews (motortrend???) said they had their car in an alignment shop for several hours. No pulling with mine, and I intend on rotating every 3000 miles to keep tire wear even all around :-)
We just hit 5000 miles, plans were to rotate every other oil change but that will have to change once I switch to moble 1. With new tires on front I think I should switch the rears around.

[goatee]

ALWAYS put newer tires on the rear. I can't find the website that explains it... but I'll keep looking.

[Ozzie Goat]

We just hit 5000 miles, plans were to rotate every other oil change but that will have to change once I switch to moble 1. With new tires on front I think I should switch the rears around.

Car and Driver - Dec 2003

Just read it today.

[HitManJ]

Goatee,
How many miles are you going between Mobile 1 changes? I've been using M1 since I was old enough to turn an oil filter wrench. Dad used to go 5k, but now we're goin 7k. He says he's seen literature saying you can go up to 10k on Mobil 1.

I'm gonna have to read that article. I'm no tire guy, but intuition says that if you wear out front tires and the rears are 50% tread life, then put new ones on front, all 4 will be ready for a change next time. In fact, that is exactly what I did on my Grand Prix. I wore out the fronts and the rears were right at 50%. Put new ones on the front and when they were down to 3/32, the rears were at 3 and 4/32. Put new Assurance Tripple Treds all around...LOVE THEM! (side bar).

J---

[gto_in_nc]

Intuition is wrong sometimes and this is one of those cases. Here's the deal - the place where tread-wear makes the biggest difference in a normal highway vehicle (assuming you aren't talking about steel showing) is in the rain. Under cruising conditions, the front tires do the lion's share of the work (steering and braking, for instance) and the rear tires are primarily acting as stabilizers (keeping the car tracking straight (OK, they are applying a little force to overcome parasitic drag and maintain momentum, too.)) So...

Car A has good tires in the rear and bald tires up front and hits a puddle at 70 mph on the Interstate. Front tires float - no steering, no stopping. They probably didn't lose traction at exactly the same moment so the car started to pivot and point in a new direction (like towards the median, maybe?) Really scary and very little to be done except do as little as possible and hope the hydroplaning is short-lived.

Car B has the reverse - good tires up front and bald ones in the back. Same hydroplane situation execpt now the rear tires float first. Driver senses a little bit of squirreliness and slows down a bit. Never loses control, just loses a little straight-line stability.

In which car would you rather be riding shotgun?

[HitManJ]

gto_in_nc seems to agree with me. So why "ALWAYS put newer tires on the rear" ?

Just did a quick search on www.caranddriver.com of "dec 2003" and "new tires" and niether search resulted in the article. Anyone got a link? Anyone wanna scan the article and send to to me?

This has me curious.

J

[Ozzie Goat]

gto_in_nc seems to agree with me. So why "ALWAYS put newer tires on the rear" ?

Just did a quick search on www.caranddriver.com of "dec 2003" and "new tires" and niether search resulted in the article. Anyone got a link? Anyone wanna scan the article and send to to me?

This has me curious.

J


http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id =3&article_id=7360&page_number=1

[BowdawG]

I bought 2 new tires at Discount for the winter beater (this Feb.) and they put them on the rear- the reason is that if the rear looses traction before the front under braking, you're doing donuts down the road... This is the common reason for snow/winter weather applications where new tires go on the rear, and I believe the reason why pickups used to come with rear ABS in the days when 4whl was optional.

[HitManJ]

Ozzie,

That was a good review of the car, but where did it explain why you should always put new tires on the front? Maybe I missed it?
J---

[Trapper]

Ok, I'm new here so no flaming, but I have been driving for 40 years (Yes I'm that OLD). I agree with the situation BowdawG described. There is no worse feeling than going down the road doing donuts, which I have done once in my life. If the rear breaks traction under acceleration, that is OK to a point, as you can ease off the throttle and maybe save it. But if it lets go under cornering or braking it is a very tough, or lucky, save.

[Dbluegoat]

welcome trapper

[goatee]

Goatee,
How many miles are you going between Mobile 1 changes? I've been using M1 since I was old enough to turn an oil filter wrench. Dad used to go 5k, but now we're goin 7k. He says he's seen literature saying you can go up to 10k on Mobil 1.

I'm gonna have to read that article. I'm no tire guy, but intuition says that if you wear out front tires and the rears are 50% tread life, then put new ones on front, all 4 will be ready for a change next time. In fact, that is exactly what I did on my Grand Prix. I wore out the fronts and the rears were right at 50%. Put new ones on the front and when they were down to 3/32, the rears were at 3 and 4/32. Put new Assurance Tripple Treds all around...LOVE THEM! (side bar).

J---

I go 5,000 and I'm sure you can go farther- I think BMW is requiring close to 20k.....

I can't argue the point about the tires till I can find the link... so I'll keep looking. It has a lot to do with what BowDawg touched on. Under braking situations, weight transfer to the front allows the back to swing around in wet conditions. It has the same affect as high-siding on a motorcycle as the A$$ end whips around uncontrollably. If you hydro the front wheels, the rear retain traction and act as a rudder to keep the car going straight- intuition would tell you not good in a situation where theres a curve. But, the same intuition would say that front traction would do you no good as the rear of the car is moving faster than the front due to lack of traction/braking and, in effect, passing the front in the same curve.... scary stuff. I read the article between a year and two ago, so I will try to find it again. I agree with all as far as common sense... burn the rears down to 50%, swap them, burn the tires to match and change all. That's what I thought too until I read the article. Very convincing for me, and I'm a typical sceptical engineer type.

[Ozzie Goat]

Ozzie,

That was a good review of the car, but where did it explain why you should always put new tires on the front? Maybe I missed it?
J---

Sorry Hitman, the article stated that the Goat wasn't straight when they took delivery and required extensive alignment time.

Two threads in a thread. Sorry.

[Stew]

I bought 2 new tires at Discount for the winter beater (this Feb.) and they put them on the rear- the reason is that if the rear looses traction before the front under braking, you're doing donuts down the road... This is the common reason for snow/winter weather applications where new tires go on the rear, and I believe the reason why pickups used to come with rear ABS in the days when 4whl was optional.



Actually the variable weight loading of the rear axle of a pick up truck made it very difficult to correctly set the front/rear brake bias. Using rear anti locks allowed setting them for a fully loaded truck and they still would't lock when empty. The same applys whether there are poor traction conditions or good. Just the lockups and "doing donuts down the road" occur at a lower velocity with poor traction. Our state inspectors are more concerned with the tread on the front tires than the rear if this means anything.

[HitManJ]

Goatee,

Keep up the search and let me know what you find. I'm the engineer type, too. I've just not had as much experience with cars.

J

[Michael 04 GTO]

I'm in favor of the "new tires to the rear" school of thought, and for the reasons stated earlier. I found it especially convincing that the owner's manual for my 2002 Saab Viggen , which delivered 20 lbs of turbo boost to the front wheels in third gear
(it was limited in first and second; three guesses why) stated that "New tires should always be mounted on the rear." P.S. - on anything other than an absolutely smooth road, w.o.t. - even in third - resulted in a car that refused to go in a straight line, unless you spent $ on an aftermarket brace and lower control arms that abated the problem. I would have thought that you would have wanted the new skins on the front in a car like that, but it wasn't the case.

Happy Driving:)