Widening Stock 17" rims - revisited

[Owe5Goat]

I am thinking about having my 2 rear stock 17" rims widened by http://www.weldcraftwheels.com/. I would like to add 25.4mm (1") so that I can run Goodyear Eagle F1 275/40/ZR17's on the rear. I really like the stock rims but since supercharging my car, I need more rubber on the road. If this will work, I could accomplish my goal of keeping the stock rims and adding more rubber. Does anyone have any experience with this or know someone that does?

[LITE SPD]

Won't you be adding weight to an already heavy wheel?

[Owe5Goat]

Won't you be adding weight to an already heavy wheel?

Yes, although, I am not really sure 1" of aluminum plus welds is going to make that much of a difference on a car with 500+hp. My main goal here is to get better traction on the street. Right now with the Maggie, it's like driving on ice when you mash the pedal in 1st thru 3rd. A good problem to have so I am not complaining. I need to do a lot more research on this issue but I would like to do it if possible so on the outside the car looks completely stock.

[HotRodGuy]

no way in hell would I do that and then go and do any kind of high speed stuff`

[dci67]

The thing that you will have to check is if there is enough room on the inside of the wheel well. It looks like the entire inch you are adding will be on the inside of the bolt pattern. The offset would then become the stock +48 plus the 25mm that you are adding for a total of +73 offset!

You may be able to take care of some of this with spacers but then the wheel center would probably not reach the hub, which is what centers it properly.

I'm no expert on this, but just some stuff that came to mind that could cause issues.

[6LITER]

I also was thinking about widening my stock 18", the only problem i see is making sure they will fit. As far as the quality of work weldcraft does i wouldn't worry about any issues. I had them widen rims on my supercharged marauder and they did an excellent job, i drove that car at high speeds with no problems.

[sccaGTO]

I also was thinking about widening my stock 18", the only problem i see is making sure they will fit. As far as the quality of work weldcraft does i wouldn't worry about any issues. I had them widen rims on my supercharged marauder and they did an excellent job, i drove that car at high speeds with no problems.
OMG!!! You & Owe5 have opened up my world. THANK YOU!!

BTW, both you & Owe5 have no questions about quality?

[Owe5Goat]

OMG!!! You & Owe5 have opened up my world. THANK YOU!!

BTW, both you & Owe5 have no questions about quality?

I have lots of questions about this idea. I spoke with James at Weldcraft today and you can see the welds on the inside of the wheel. I am not sure how ugly that would be. The other questions that come to mind as someone said above is will the widened rims and larger tires fit with a 70+mm offset. The last question that comes to mind is will the rim be balanced after welding. It would suck to have to tack on some gorilla sized weights to balance them.

I really like the look of the stock rims. I wish you could buy wider ones.

Oh well, thanks for all the feedback so far. I gotta keep researching this.

[sccaGTO]

I have lots of questions about this idea. I spoke with James at Weldcraft today and you can see the welds on the inside of the wheel. I am not sure how ugly that would be. The other questions that come to mind as someone said above is will the widened rims and larger tires fit with a 70+mm offset. The last question that comes to mind is will the rim be balanced after welding. It would suck to have to tack on some gorilla sized weights to balance them.

I really like the look of the stock rims. I wish you could buy wider ones.

Oh well, thanks for all the feedback so far. I gotta keep researching this.
Perhaps you could ask to have the welds smoothed down to look factory. My interest was more about them narrowing wheels. I know of a couple of different wheels I'd like to put on the GTO, if they were narrower.

[6LITER]

I have lots of questions about this idea. I spoke with James at Weldcraft today and you can see the welds on the inside of the wheel. I am not sure how ugly that would be. The other questions that come to mind as someone said above is will the widened rims and larger tires fit with a 70+mm offset. The last question that comes to mind is will the rim be balanced after welding. It would suck to have to tack on some gorilla sized weights to balance them.

I really like the look of the stock rims. I wish you could buy wider ones.

Oh well, thanks for all the feedback so far. I gotta keep researching this.
YES YOU CAN SEE THE WELD ON THE INSIDE OF THE WHEEL BUT ITS NOT AS BAD AS YOU MIGHT THINK HERE IS A PIC OF MINE NOT THE BESTI WISH I TOOK MORE BEFORE I GOT RID OF IT BUT, YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE WELD IS.

[sccaGTO]

HOLY CAPS LOCK, BATMAN. How was the quality in your opinion 6LITER? OE? Or was it the same quality you would expect of a refurbished rim? I am seriously looking into doing this.

[sccaGTO]

Any updates? Anyone else call & check into this? I did, & I'm still looking into doing it.

[Az 05 Goat]

Wow what a life saver .. I have been talking with centerline for 2 weeks now trying to get a quote back on taking a 18 X 7" custom bolt pattern sundancer rim (they can DO the bolt patten and no extra cost) with a 5" offset. But i was asking for 2" of inside space added to it to make a 9" rim for the rears was the hold up.

I have a 1996 F-body with a set of 16 X 9.5 sundancer's with a 7" offset on the rear with 265,40 tires (with a 7" offset this leaves 2.5 inch rim hanging out to the inside side of the beed, stock GTO looks to be only 1.75). I switched them over to the goat to see what they would look like and got the tape out to see how they would fit. They LOOKED AWESOME! semi-Deep dish on a goat WOW.. This is a MUST for me.
The Problem was they stuck out 1" on each side over stock rims a tires. No way will they work on the fender but as to inside rim, I still had 1" of room on the inside for more rim easy! Man did a wide track goat look awesome.. Was even thinking about moding the body fender, but I have seen to many older f-body with fender flares look like junk 1 year after install. They seem to crack out so easy.

Guess I should take the time to put them back on and post pics.. Its such a differnet look.. kinda old school..Pontiac wide-track

Any way.. Thx for the info all be call on this today..Looks like I may get my wish.

[Fulton 1]

I just had Weldcraft widen a pair of OEM 18's for me to 9". I am now running these in the rear in conjunction with Skulte 3/4" wheel adapters custom built to GTO specs. I could not be more pleased with both Weldcraft and Skulte - their work and customer service is top notch. Note that I rolled the fenders and am running 265/35/18 Michelin PS2's, which tuck in just perfect. The look is now much more aggressive yet still looks OEM.

Pics of the wheels on the car are pending, but here are some shots of the wheels alone. Should give you an idea.

Wheels as delivered by Weldcraft:
http://home.earthlink.net/~filesj/sitebuilderconte nt/sitebuilderpictures/gtowheels-pair1.jpg

View of inner rim prior to paint - note that they ground down the visible welds for me:
http://home.earthlink.net/~filesj/sitebuilderconte nt/sitebuilderpictures/gtowheel-unpainted2.jpg

View of inner rim after paint:
http://home.earthlink.net/~filesj/sitebuilderconte nt/sitebuilderpictures/wheel2.jpg

View of inner wheel with tire mounted:
http://home.earthlink.net/~filesj/sitebuilderconte nt/sitebuilderpictures/gtowheelwithtire.jpg

[HTRDLNCN]

If you dont mind me asking what did they charge?

[Fulton 1]

If you dont mind me asking what did they charge?

$175 per wheel for painted wheels
$200-225 per wheel for chromed wheels
$25 per wheel to grind down weld beads

[24v]

I am thinking about having my 2 rear stock 17" rims widened by http://www.weldcraftwheels.com/. I would like to add 25.4mm (1") so that I can run Goodyear Eagle F1 275/40/ZR17's on the rear. I really like the stock rims but since supercharging my car, I need more rubber on the road. If this will work, I could accomplish my goal of keeping the stock rims and adding more rubber. Does anyone have any experience with this or know someone that does?
I am running 275/40 kdws on stock 17x8 wheels. Works fine.:mswerd:

[Fulton 1]

I am running 275/40 kdws on stock 17x8 wheels. Works fine.:mswerd:

Not a good idea. Per published BFG spec sheet, minimum recommended wheel width for 275/40/17 is 9".

[24v]

Not a good idea. Per published BFG spec sheet, minimum recommended wheel width for 275/40/17 is 9".
<---Not worried. Wouldn't be the first time I didn't follow specs. The tires look fine on the rim, and the hookup better than the 245's. Seems like a good fit to me. But, I guess the 3 sets of drag radials I have gone through in that exact size shouldn't have worked either.

[sccaGTO]

Fulton, you just made me the happiest man on the forum with those pics. When my other 3 rims come in, 2 are headed to Michigan. I can finally get a set of rims I like. This is better than Christmas.

[lanceygto]

I am thinking about having my 2 rear stock 17" rims widened by http://www.weldcraftwheels.com/. I would like to add 25.4mm (1") so that I can run Goodyear Eagle F1 275/40/ZR17's on the rear. I really like the stock rims but since supercharging my car, I need more rubber on the road. If this will work, I could accomplish my goal of keeping the stock rims and adding more rubber. Does anyone have any experience with this or know someone that does?

I have the same concern, need and interest. I will do the same if the result is that there is no rubbing issues.

[mdmike]

I just had Weldcraft widen a pair of OEM 18's for me to 9". I am now running these in the rear in conjunction with Skulte 3/4" wheel adapters custom built to GTO specs. I could not be more pleased with both Weldcraft and Skulte - their work and customer service is top notch. Note that I rolled the fenders and am running 265/35/18 Michelin PS2's, which tuck in just perfect. The look is now much more aggressive yet still looks OEM.

Pics of the wheels on the car are pending, but here are some shots of the wheels alone. Should give you an idea.



Question,

What are the 3/4" wheel adapters for? Was that done to change the offset of the rim? I am thinking as well to do this on the Stock 17". Your wheels look great. Can't wait to see them on the car.

Mike

[Fulton 1]

Question,

What are the 3/4" wheel adapters for? Was that done to change the offset of the rim? I am thinking as well to do this on the Stock 17". Your wheels look great. Can't wait to see them on the car.

Mike

When wheels are widened the width is added only to the inside edge. In other words, half of the 1" width increase is added to the (positive) offset. So an 8" wide wheel with a prior 48mm offset now becomes a 9" wide wheel with a 60.7mm offset, which will not fit inside the fender without contacting on the inboard side. To offset the gain in width to the inside, a wheel adapter/spacer is used to push the whole wheel outboard and help offset the gain in the inboard direction. The adapter/spacer subtracts (positive) offset from the newly widened wheel. So, to continue with my previous example - the above widened wheel, now at 60.7mm offset, and utilizing the 3/4" (19.05mm) adapter will become equivalent to a 9" wide wheel with a 41.65mm offset. Bottom line is that my 18x9 wheel widened 1" and with the 3/4" spacer is same as if I purchased an aftermarket 18x9 wheel with a 41.65mm offset. The wheel has grown 3/4" outboard and 1/4" inboard from its OEM dimensions.

Since the OEM wheels are tucked in almost 1" from the rear fender, the 3/4" gain gives it a more aggressive look along with the ability to use the wider tire properly. In conjunction with rolling the fenders this is nearly a perfect fit IMO. When I test fit the new wheels/tires, I pulled the rear coil spring s and jacked the suspension up into the fender (to simulate bottoming out) and the tire just clears the rolled edge. The particular tires that I am using have a very vertical (ie "square") sidewall that would make fitting a 275/35/18 iffy, but a tire with a more "rounded" sidewall (like the OEM 18" Bridgestone RE040's) might clear in a 275 section width.

I hope this makes sense. If not feel free to PM me and I'll do my best to elaborate.

[Trapper]

When wheels are widened the width is added only to the inside edge. In other words, the entire 1" width increase is added to the (positive) offset. So an 8" wide wheel with a prior 48mm offset now becomes a 9" wide wheel with a 73.4mm offset, which will not fit inside the fender without contacting on the inboard side. To offset the gain in width to the inside, a wheel adapter/spacer is used to push the whole wheel outboard and help offset the gain in the inboard direction. The adapter/spacer subtracts (positive) offset from the newly widened wheel. So, to continue with my previous example - the above widened wheel, now at 73.4mm offset, and utilizing the 3/4" (19.05mm) adapter will become equivalent to a 9" wide wheel with a 54.35mm offset. Bottom line, is that my 18x9 wheel widened 1" and with the 3/4" spacer is same as if I purchased an aftermarket 18x9 wheel with a 54.35mm offset. The wheel has grown 3/4" outboard and 1/4" inboard from its OEM dimensions.

Since the OEM wheels are tucked in almost 1" from the rear fender, the 3/4" gain gives it a more aggressive look along with the ability to use the wider tire properly. In conjunction with rolling the fenders this is nearly a perfect fit IMO. When I test fit the new wheels/tires, I pulled the rear coil spring s and jacked the suspension up into the fender (to simulate bottoming out) and the tire just clears the rolled edge. The particular tires that I am using have a very vertical (ie "square") sidewall that would make fitting a 275/35/18 iffy, but a tire with a more "rounded" sidewall (like the OEM 18" Bridgestone RE040's) might clear in a 275 section width.

I hope this makes sense. If not feel free to PM me and I'll do my best to elaborate.

Fulton,

I think you have done a great job here with the stock wheels. I only have two questions which are easy ones I hope. 1 ) What is the contact website, phone , whatever for the spacers? 2) I am assuming you went to wheel studs that were at least 3/4" longer to make up for the spacer. I would appreciate the same info on them as well.

I like the idea of having a stock appearing wheel that is 9" wide. Great job!!!

[sccaGTO]

Actually Fulton, the new offset of your wheels only became 60.7mm, not 73.4mm. Why? The extra inch was added to the inside of the wheel. The true centerline (starting point for measuring offset) moves only 1/2". So, half of 25.4mm (1") is 12.7mm. Add that to the +48mm & you get 60.7mm. I want Weldcraft to narrow mine. This same equasion means my wheels will end up with a +36mm. Still, +60mm offset isn't optimum for the rear of the GTO.

[Fulton 1]

Actually Fulton, the new offset of your wheels only became 60.7mm, not 73.4mm. Why? The extra inch was added to the inside of the wheel. The true centerline (starting point for measuring offset) moves only 1/2". So, half of 25.4mm (1") is 12.7mm. Add that to the +48mm & you get 60.7mm. I want Weldcraft to narrow mine. This same equasion means my wheels will end up with a +36mm. Still, +60mm offset isn't optimum for the rear of the GTO.

Damn. Good catch - you're absolutely right. My apologies for the error - that's what I get for trying to crunch numbers while doing other things at work :o

I'll edit my post to make sure and not confuse anyone.

[Fulton 1]

Fulton,

I think you have done a great job here with the stock wheels. I only have two questions which are easy ones I hope. 1 ) What is the contact website, phone , whatever for the spacers? 2) I am assuming you went to wheel studs that were at least 3/4" longer to make up for the spacer. I would appreciate the same info on them as well.

I like the idea of having a stock appearing wheel that is 9" wide. Great job!!!

Thanks for the kind words, Trapper.

1) Contact info for the wheel adapters can be found at www.skulte.com . Call or email Andris - he's a nice guy and will usually get right back with you. FWIW the specs on my adapters are as follows:
3/4" width
Axle hub side - M12x1.5 studs, 69.5mm bore center dia., 5x120.0mm bolt circle.
Wheel side - same as above. 69.5mm outer dia. on the wheelcentric lip. Make sure you have this wheelcentric lip added since some adapters do not have them. I think its around $25 extra.

2) No need for longer wheel studs with an adapter. The terminology seems to vary, but in general a "spacer" is a slip-on part that slides over the stock wheel studs on the axle hub. IMO, these should be limited to 1/4" width or less unless you do install longer wheel studs. Rule of thumb is to get 6 turns of thread engagement on your lugnuts when you tighten them and you're okay.

A wheel "adapter" on the other hand actually mounts to the hub with its own set of lugnuts (just like you would normally mount a wheel). It has an additional set of studs installed in it (offset from the original hole pattern), to which is mounted the wheel. This makes it a better choice since you get full thread engagement on both sets of studs (think of it as an extension to the inner face of the wheel hub).

The only concerns with adapters are that they usually require widths of 3/4" and larger and that widths smaller than ~1.25" require that your wheels have recessed "pockets" on the back side of the wheel hub (notice the little trapezoid-shaped pockets between the lug holes on my pics of the inner side of the wheel above?) to clear the lugs attaching the adapters to the axle hub. On the thinner adapters the lugs mounting the adapter to the axle hub will protrude out a bit.

Another thing to note is that the reason these are called "adapters" is because you can actually mount wheels with a different bolt pattern to your axle hub. In my case (as I noted in (1) above) the wheel side and axle side had the same pattern and thread pitch since I was mounting GTO wheels. In theory, however, you could mount wheels with a different bolt circle, stud size, and hub bore so long as the offset and widths were correct. In this case you would specify the dimensions for the GTO on the axle side of the adapter and the dimensions for your donor wheels/lugs on the wheel side of the adapter. They are also used a lot by folks mounting modern OEM wheels (that generally have higher positive offsets) on older cars to space them out properly.

Here's a pic of my adapters, which might help clarify my long-winded explanation... :)

http://home.earthlink.net/~filesj/sitebuilderconte nt/sitebuilderpictures/skulteadapters1.jpg

[2Cool]

I would like to know how the widened wheels balanced up. I see no weights at all in the pic of the rim/wheel assembly. I would be interested in spinning a set on my Hunter balancer at the shop to see the trueness and weight.

[1969 SS]

$175 per wheel for painted wheels
$200-225 per wheel for chromed wheels
$25 per wheel to grind down weld beads

ok..now I'm hating you because I think you just cost me about $500.:yumyum: when I think I'm ready I'll be sending a PM your way to find out a little more

[Fulton 1]

I would like to know how the widened wheels balanced up. I see no weights at all in the pic of the rim/wheel assembly. I would be interested in spinning a set on my Hunter balancer at the shop to see the trueness and weight.

Actually if you look really closely you can just barely see the stick-on weights on the inner edge of the nearest wheel in the pic with the tire mounted (look just below the upper lefthand corner).
This being the first set that I had widened I was also concerned about how they would balance. However, I had them balanced and force matched on a Hunter 9700 at my local Discount Tire and I was happy to see that both wheels only required a couple of stick-ons at the inner and outer edges. Since I've had them on the car I've done about 200 miles of highway driving and I've not felt the slightest shudder or vibration at speed (even at 100mph+ when putting an M3 in his place :) ). IMO, this should absolutely not be a concern.

[Trapper]

Thanks for the info on the adapters, and you are right that I was thinking of them just as 3/4 inch spacers.

I think I remember seeing adapters like that a long time ago that were sold with the two different bolt circle sizes so you could use different wheels, just as you said. I had not seen them anywhere recently though.

[sccaGTO]

Perhaps I should start a new thread called "Narrowing 17" Rims". :gr_jest: Anyway, I got my WS6 rims today from Weldcraft. They do look great. They spun up on the balancer well, also. They didn't require any more weight than any other tire/wheel combo. I am currently driving on them to see if they are as good as I saw. So far, so good. Next test: snow tomorrow. :banghead:

[tripower]

Did you ever post the mounted wheels and tires? Thanks.

[JayC'sG]

resurrect dead thread: I just purchased two factory 18"s and am having them sent to weldcraft for widening. I'll keep everyone posted.

Also, Fulton. James as weldcraft says they do not paint/refinish the wheels. Did you have that done elsewhere?