Why should I buy a 2005 instead of a 2004?

[Fast GTO]

Well?

Seriously, I'm getting brain cramps trying to figure out whether the deals are good enough on the 2004's to not get a 2005.

Help....


:bomb:

[Tails]

Here is one way to look at it.......You can agonize for another 6 months or be driving with a big stupid grin for the 6 months. Instant gratification and then you are ready for an '07.
:drink::drink:

[Fast GTO]

I have to ship it to Germany, so If I buy it today, I won't have it for another month and a half.

[jessdub99]

WIth the current incentives, I'd say 2004. 50hp isn't that much to go nuts over, hood scoops are a personal preference (I don't like them), and split exhaust/bigger breaks doesn't make up the difference in price.

I'm currently in the process of getting a 2004 instead of the 05. It just doesn't make sense to wait. You could wait the rest of your life. If you find a deal, grab it.

[jacflash]

I'd say either order an '05 now or maybe wait until January to see what Mopar shows at NAIAS. I don't see the sense in buying an '04 unless cash is tight, in which case there are great deals to be had.

[HRJ]

I can't wait 'till DesertGoat gets a hold of this thread..... :bomb:

[Fast GTO]

I'm serious I need help...

I know the 2005 is going to have the new LS2 with 50+HP and probably a little more as things look from the recent C6 dynos. It will also have bigger brakes (not really a concern for me), scooped hood (I like this), and dual outlet exhaust (I also like).

I can get the 2004 for $25,888 and the 2005 for $700 below MSRP (so probably about $33,000).

1) Does the 2004 have drive by wire? And what effect does this have in improving the driving quality?

2) What is the cheapest way I can add 50HP to the 2004?

I need a pro's and con's break down on the practical and technical side of this argument.

[desertgoat]

I can't wait 'till DesertGoat gets a hold of this thread..... :bomb:


Do a search and read tons of posts from so many experts who have graced us current 04 owners with their vast amounts of experience and knowledge about the 05 GTO. The common denominator in these replies from these non GTO owning xeperts is that the 05 is definitely worth waiting for:

more powerful
no mark ups
MSRP close to and likely less than 04
should be present in dealer lots before December


Or you can ask us hundreds of current 04 owners and we will all give you the same stupid non-expert advice: get an 04 at these current prices. But hey what do we know? We only own current 04 goats. If I were you, I would listen to the new members who don't even own one. After all, they are the experts.

:gr_jest:

[Fast GTO]

Okay, what problems does the GTO currently have?

I know the stereo controls **** up occasionally. What else?

And what else will be different in the 2005 beyond the LS2 and bigger brakes (are the brakes really even a problem)?



BTW, I will be driving this on the Autobahn, and I know these Goats have been beating on M3's, BMW 330's and some Mercedes, but with the LS2 imagine the damage I could do.....

But the deals on the 2004 are OOOOOO soooooo goooood.

[JohnPaulPSU]

I wish I could buy an 04 and be happy with it... But I can't.

The 05 is better and if I buy an 04 I will know deep down that I'm driving the worst of the new GTO's. I have always had this problem. I can't even buy a cheap toaster or iron. I have to have the most expensive one.

If I had to nail it down to one thing that really keeps me from buying the 04 it is the LS1 engine. Everything else can be improved with the money I save on an 04 but I can't swap out the engine that cheaply. I really want those "6.0 Litre" badges.

I know it's stupid but I can't help it so it'll be an 05 for me.

Oh yeah, one more thing... "the brakes" people keep saying that they don't care about them being bigger. I for one am very happy that they have been improved. I like to drive on the edge and the better the brakes are the safer I'll be. Especially with a big car like this. I wonder if the new braking number have been released yet.

[ydtrack]

I am waiting for the 2005 because I want the LS2, Hood Scoops, bigger brakes and dual exhaust outlets*.

Sure the deals on the 2004 are great, but I am willing to take my chances in late 2005. Of course I don't believe anyone who says there will be no markups, the MSRP will be lower, etc.

It really depends on what car YOU want.

* I would like to reserve the right to retract my above statements in case I come across a W40 that I decide to buy. :p

[Razinhell]

Coming from someone who owns an 04 and wanted an 05 listen to me. Either way you will be happy!! I looked over the 04 with a magnifine glass and came to the conclusion its exactly what i wanted. I'm not overly interested in the hood scoops, the brakes are good on my car and the interior will be the same in the 05.

ENGINE:
After going over the LS2 on ls1tech.com i've come to realise that the LS2 really isn't a new generation, but really just a little tweeking here and there. It has a higher compression which mean more power now. With a lower compression LS1 and a bunch of years of aftermarket parts to look at, 50hp can come real quick. For an extra 3K you can have an LS6 Head/Cam swap and be rocking 400hp at the wheel like Art is and still come under the 05's MSRP. By the time the Aftermarket world for the LS2 starts opening up the LS7 will come out with its 3 Valves heads and the 07 GTO will come out and i can decide if i want to upgrade to a newer model or keep my comfortable and fast 04. If your not gonna go to the track and get some 1/4 mile runs what good is an extra 50hp. If you really like the track then i still can't see the advantage 50hp will get you when there are LS1's putting down crazy numbers.
BODY STYLE:
If you really don't like the sleekness of the current model (i'm falling in love with it), You will pay even more for the 05. You want autocross its an add on which costs more.
OVERALL:
You decision is pretty easy. You pay less now or more later. The less 04 now can afford you add ons the 05 will suck out of your pocket with cash to spare. I think tails said it best, be happy now or aganize over it for another 6 months. You take a chance waiting. If the GTO sales really take off for the 05 model you will be in even worse shape as no incentives will be out till real late and who knows what the dealers will sell them for. I mean 26K for a GTO and a 04 Mustang GT goes for 24K and the 05 Mustang will be around 26K so you are already getting an awesome car for as much as a lesser car. Good luck, i think i'll go take a ride in my GTO sitting outside while you ponder your decision over the 50hp.

[PadreGTO]

Nice summary and good advice, Razinhell. The next GTO I buy will be the '07. :cool:

Padre

[sxty8goats]

The money you save on the 04 will allow you to build a car that will trounce on an 05 and still have gas cash.

[HRJ]

Do a search and read tons of posts from so many experts who have graced us current 04 owners with their vast amounts of experience and knowledge about the 05 GTO. The common denominator in these replies from these non GTO owning xeperts is that the 05 is definitely worth waiting for:

more powerful
no mark ups
MSRP close to and likely less than 04
should be present in dealer lots before December


Or you can ask us hundreds of current 04 owners and we will all give you the same stupid non-expert advice: get an 04 at these current prices. But hey what do we know? We only own current 04 goats. If I were you, I would listen to the new members who don't even own one. After all, they are the experts.

:gr_jest:

I knew you wouldn't let me down.....

[zbaron]

oh boy another thred like this ill keep silent on this one

sept to say i have an 04 im trading for an 05

[jessdub99]

You honestly think 8 grand is worth giving up on for an 05? I just put 9g's down on my 04 and I should have it by this thurs/friday. I paid 25,300 for it and I can't explain how happy I am.

Economically, it just doesn't make sense. Now obviously, if 8k is not a big deal to you, then go for it. I think even 5k is worth getting the 04 over the 05, but I'm not rich.

[Shinzon]

Ls6 Upgrade Biotch !@!!

[Fast GTO]

Okay, the poll seems to be fairly even, yet the posts predominantly say go for the 2004.

WTF?

[cjlannoy]

nobody wants to admit that they wish they would have waited for an 05.

[OrangeCrushM6]

nobody wants to admit that they wish they would have waited for an 05.

You've got to be kidding. :banghead:

[No ConeSS]

I may change my mind when the '05s come out, but so far, I'm glad I got the '04. Less expensive, and I was gonna mod the crap out of it anyway, so why spend more for parts that are gonna get taken off the car anyway?

[cjlannoy]

You've got to be kidding. :banghead:
I'm just grasping at straws here. I don't know why nobody is defending the '05 vote. :rolleyes:

[jessdub99]

Okay, the poll seems to be fairly even, yet the posts predominantly say go for the 2004.

WTF?

What'd you think everyone would say?

[jagular]

I faced the exact same issue. I bought the '04. The price/performance with the incentives are just too good. Here's how I thought about it:

If the '05 GTO is a success because they "fix" the issues with the '04 (50 more HP, cosmetics), then the deals aren't going to be there next year like they are now.

[desertgoat]

I faced the exact same issue. I bought the '04. The price/performance with the incentives are just too good. Here's how I thought about it:

If the '05 GTO is a success because they "fix" the issues with the '04 (50 more HP, cosmetics), then the deals aren't going to be there next year like they are now.

Why couldn't the other 05 wannabe's be as realistic and smart as you? I guess they want something so bad they are afraid to face the reality that is sure to come and swim in a river of denial and immerse themselves in an ocean of wishful thinking. Those who refuse to learn from the past will get hurt in the future.

[cjlannoy]

Why couldn't the other 05 wannabe's be as realistic and smart as you? I guess they want something so bad they are afraid to face the reality that is sure to come and swim in a river of denial and immerse themselves in an ocean of wishful thinking. Those who refuse to learn from the past will get hurt in the future.
Angelina....mmmmmmmmmm..... :hail:

[350goodreasons]

I'm just grasping at straws here. I don't know why nobody is defending the '05 vote. :rolleyes:

I am with you there i am a 04 gto owner but voted for the 05 not because it is rational just because the emotional side says latest is better. the 05 being the lastest/greatest will last only for about 6/8 months as the GTO was always upgraded from year to year.
This said i would not trade the 04 for an 05 (no offense for the ones that are planing it but it would be plain stupid) as the 06 will be probably have more upgrade and 07 is supposed to be a major redesign (ls7?).

IHMO If you plan to mod the car or if your budget is tight choose a 04 but if you plan to keep it stock because you are not into tuning and have the money then the LS2/05 is probably a better choice.

[JohnPaulPSU]

Why couldn't the other 05 wannabe's be as realistic and smart as you? I guess they want something so bad they are afraid to face the reality that is sure to come and swim in a river of denial and immerse themselves in an ocean of wishful thinking. Those who refuse to learn from the past will get hurt in the future.


I'm an 05 wannabe.

What reality am I afraid to face? Is it the reality that the 05 is a better car?

What river of denial am I swimming in? I deny nothing, the 05 is going to cost more and I have to wait to get one.

Wishful thinking? The only thing I wish is that the 04 was as good as the 05 so I could own a goat already.

What lesson was I supposed to have learned from the past? The only lesson I can think of, is to never buy a car until it's last year of production. That way they can't improve it and make me jealous. (and no I'm not saying any 04 owners are jealous, I'm just saying that I would be)

[Tails]

When you get to be as old as dirt you will have learned two important lessons. First is that things are always changing and not always for the better. Second is that you will buy a new car every 3-5 years. That is why you go for it today.
:drink::drink:

[Razinhell]

When you get to be as old as dirt you will have learned two important lessons. First is that things are always changing and not always for the better. Second is that you will buy a new car every 3-5 years. That is why you go for it today.
:drink::drink:
2007 Pontiac GTO in your future?? LS7, AWD and other goodies? By that time my 04 will be paid off.

[Tails]

2007 Pontiac GTO in your future?? LS7, AWD and other goodies? By that time my 04 will be paid off.
Absolutely or wait out that first of a year model and go for an 08.
:drink::drink:

[sxty8goats]

The only regret I have buying the 04 is that I didn't get the great rebates that you can get now. My car rocks. 331 RWHP. Another grand and I'll be up around 370 RWHP. If I had the rebates you can get today I would still be $4000 ahead. Buy the 2004. Enjoy the last few months before winter hits and spend the winter building her up a bit.. HP feels better when you added it instead of buying it. Pride and all.

[SPCLFX]

I'm having the same dilemma but am in no hurry to get a car. The bigger question for me is: WHERE CAN YOU BUY AN '04 FOR $25,888? The cheapest i've found is $3,000 off MSRP>
I'm serious I need help...

I know the 2005 is going to have the new LS2 with 50+HP and probably a little more as things look from the recent C6 dynos. It will also have bigger brakes (not really a concern for me), scooped hood (I like this), and dual outlet exhaust (I also like).

I can get the 2004 for $25,888 and the 2005 for $700 below MSRP (so probably about $33,000).

1) Does the 2004 have drive by wire? And what effect does this have in improving the driving quality?

2) What is the cheapest way I can add 50HP to the 2004?

I need a pro's and con's break down on the practical and technical side of this argument.

[JohnPaulPSU]

HP feels better when you added it instead of buying it. Pride and all.

I'm going to disagree with that statement. There are no free HP mods. You can't just magically add HP. You have to buy it. Wether it comes from the factory, or from an aftermarket company, you're buying it.

BTW you will be able to add HP just as easily to the LS2. I just read on another forum where just by putting on a new set of headers the LS2 gained 30 RWHP. It won't take much at all to get the 05 up to 400 RWHP.

For those of you who would rather buy a less powerful car so that you can feel proud when you catch up to the LS2 I suggest the 04 model. With the money you save spent on engine mods, you will not only catch up but pass the LS2 (or at least a stock one)

[SwordofKrynn]

For me, this decision will come down to a nice trip down to my local dealer. If he cuts me a deal, I'll probably drive away in an 04. If not, I'll wait for an 05. Seems like we'll find out Friday if I drive home a GTO or my old Camaro.

[CSiJason]

The way I see it, the 05 comes with the things I would otherwise want or need to upgrade including brakes, suspension??, 18" wheel option, aero package option, factory hood scoops, LS2 (which mind you is NOT the same as a beefed up LS1) with more power and a much better torque band and of course the higher redline and 6.0 badges.

Sure, I will pay more out of the box for the 05, but that is money I didnt have to spend on aftermarket upgrades, things that would otherwise void the warrenty and I wouldnt be able to finance with the cost of the car.

And as said above, strap on the common LS1 upgrades and the LS2 really comes to life. I've also read that the LS2 has a better cyl wall setup that prevents distortion of the bore while having better cooling and is stronger at the same time?? (Dont quote me on that.)

Either way, 05 GTO here I come!

[pricksta]

When you get to be as old as dirt you will have learned two important lessons. First is that things are always changing and not always for the better. Second is that you will buy a new car every 3-5 years. That is why you go for it today.
:drink::drink:


thats true. why keep waiting. we could all wait until the newer and better car comes along. it always happens. right now the price is right on an 04. cant get better than 23,995 or 24,000 on a car with a current c5 vette engine. and ability to mod. otherwise people will keep waiting and waiting till they die, lol...might as well get it now while it lasts. i remember when the 91-92 mustang gt's were the bomb at 225 hp...Now, in 3 yrs..cars will be up till 500hp for 30g's....technology keeps getting better..with prices the same..like computers..so there. thats what i think...get it now...

[rgrizzardfl]

Go for the 05. For the money you will have more performance while still under warranty. After 6 months you will have many of the same mods to do to it if you want more however. If cost is a major factor go for the 04 but realize the resale will be lower also, just for the simple fact that it is a year older. What would resale for more an LT1 SS or the following year LS1 SS?

[Dbluegoat]

I wish I could buy an 04 and be happy with it... But I can't.

The 05 is better and if I buy an 04 I will know deep down that I'm driving the worst of the new GTO's. I have always had this problem. I can't even buy a cheap toaster or iron. I have to have the most expensive one.

If I had to nail it down to one thing that really keeps me from buying the 04 it is the LS1 engine. Everything else can be improved with the money I save on an 04 but I can't swap out the engine that cheaply. I really want those "6.0 Litre" badges.

I know it's stupid but I can't help it so it'll be an 05 for me.

Oh yeah, one more thing... "the brakes" people keep saying that they don't care about them being bigger. I for one am very happy that they have been improved. I like to drive on the edge and the better the brakes are the safer I'll be. Especially with a big car like this. I wonder if the new braking number have been released yet.
yeah but this time next year people are gonna be getting the better one on you....it will never end

[Felbie]

This is one of my first posts, but ima say go with the 04, i recently bought an 04 for about 26000, 1 you save a lot of money, for me im leasing and dont care too much about modding and that 26000 made it the only way i could afford this car, and 2, SLP Performance is supposedly comin out with a LS2 bottom end bored out to a 6.7L for 3500, 5000 installed, i think id rather have the LS26.7L rather than the 6.0L, BUT thats saying that everyone has the 34-35000 dollars that theyre gona be their 05 with...

most people do payments, which make it possible to pay off a more expensive car, its not ALWAYS the case, but i think, you have the money up front or the extra 8000 dollars youre gona be spending, id go for the 04 and mod it to an LS2, youd probably have it before the 05s are out anyways, just my .02 ...if you want the power and you are willing to do payments, whihc are gona be alooot more, (8000 dollars financed or even leased is a good 200 dollars a month depending on the term)

[White Rider]

Hey, if ud like to test drive one, shoot up to England and test drive a Vauxhall Monaro, same car, more features but a bit less power.

[Mikesan]

We have gone over the specs and prices of the 04 and 05 in here ad infinitum. It really shouldn't be that hard a decision. For about $7-8 grand you get better brakes, a dead pedal, 50 hp, split exhausts, and hoop scoops. If you can afford it and want it, then by all means wait, buy it and enjoy having the latest and greatest. If you are willing to wait another 12 months, you might be able to buy one for around $28K. Who knows? But what are you going to do then when there are more changes you like for the 06? The next year will always be better. I'm waiting for the 07 or 08.

I'm spending the money saved for a decent used economy car to drive on crappy days. Looking for a 2001 Mazda Protege LX 5 speed. Room for 5, easy to drive and over 30 MPG.

[goat-boy]

i will be waiting on the 05's. i will only see one more month of decent weather in michigan, and am not hip to driving a GTO in the winter ( my grand prix is for that ). 50 extra horses, bigger brakes, scoops, possibility of 18's, it's everything i would think of modding on an 04, but factory installed and more importantly warranteed. as for the price, i think you will see similar rebates on the 05 by the end of summer ( car sales will still be slow ). but if you are dead set on getting a deal on the 04's, detroit is the place to be, they are advertising on tv the 230 a month w/ 1300down ( GM employee ) deal and still have GTOs sitting on lots.

[gotzaGTO]

2004 PONTIAC GTO - the first year for the rebirth of a legend... need i say more.... well yes cause there was another reason y i went with the 04 over the 05... a buddy at work had an 00 T/A all done up, performance mods, apperance mods, the works, but he got rid of it and when i asked him why, he told me this, "Steve, a flashy car is fun, but when your rumbling up to your 5 year olds school, and you can hear the other parents comment about how immature you look in your car, you realize there is a time to grow up. You don't want to buy a car that your going to look like a kid in when your 33, 53 maybe with the midlife crisis thing, but believe me you'll regret it." telling me to sell my o3 GA SC/T because it was too flashly, Orange, rally rims, graffics package, all before i crashed it. Now im not trying to knock the 05, but the 04 has the look of the volvo or the bmw where it looks like an adult car. i like how the 05 looks, but if i got it, i would have gotten the autox package and I would be back to square one. and everyone has to remember too, that despite how much hp a car comes with, someone out there will have a car to beat you, look at how many lt1's have 400 rwhp which is about a 100 more then my ls1 with my K&N intake. it all comes down to what you want, and nobody can answer that question but yourself.

[infocheck05gto]

LPE Lingenfelter 450hp

$7,000.00 LPE installs cam & heads or $3,000.00 for cam & heads U install
$1,500.00 exhaust system LPE installs, need in order to get 450hp.
$2,000.00 improve brakes, LPE installs. or $3,000.00 Brembo brakes U install.

$1,200.00 buy hood & paint U install

Upgraded on 2005 GTO: Rear End & Auto. Transmission

my best offer so far from a dealership for 04 GTO is only
$27,000.00 + Title,Tax,Tags. Washington DC, MD, VA area

Lose Warranty, if upgrade engine, which affects warranty on Trans. & rear end

$24,000.00 to $25,000.00 is what I expect the 04s to sell at.


Well?

Seriously, I'm getting brain cramps trying to figure out whether the deals are good enough on the 2004's to not get a 2005.

Help....


:bomb:

[anthony m]

Well hello everyone in GTO land.I have been thinking of buying a 2004 GTO,but after driving the new C6 vette with the Ls2 i am waiting for the 2005.I am a Chevy tech at a dealer in Chicago and was able to drive the new C6 at the MIlwaukee Mile about a month ago.We received are first C6 last week also.The Ls2 is a screamer.I would just like some feed about all the GTO owners out there.I think i will be ready next fall for the 2005 GTO.I wanna know how all you guys like the 2004's.

[dozlert]

Buy the 04, install a maggi, low compression hipo heads, lunati crank, ehaust and still be within the range of the 05.

[jmv8]

I'm having the same dilemma but am in no hurry to get a car. The bigger question for me is: WHERE CAN YOU BUY AN '04 FOR $25,888? The cheapest i've found is $3,000 off MSRP>


http://newspaperads.dfw.com/RopAds.aspx?adv=140668&ad=1179257

I spoke to a guy at Buz Post named Anthony who sold another line of cars at the same dealer (it was Saturday and busy) and he was a super guy--let me drive one when no one was able to do that around here (remember those days?!). Good luck!