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NormGTO
03-07-2006, 06:41 AM
Camaro on verge of revival

CAW vote this week is next step toward GM's 2010 goal

March 7, 2006

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BY MARK PHELAN

FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER

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The Camaro concept was the hit of the 2006 auto show in Detroit. GM wants the car to be part of the company's new rear-wheel-drive family. (Chevrolet)

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More Photos Camaro

Concept specs

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The Chevrolet Camaro expected to go into production by 2010 will undergo changes before it reaches the market. But here are the specifications of the concept Camaro shown in January at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit:

Type: Two-door, four-passenger, rear-wheel-drive sport coupe.

Engine: 400-horsepower, aluminum small block V8.

Transmission: Six-speed manual.

Suspension: Four-wheel independent.

Camaro generations

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1967: After Chevrolet sees the popularity of the Ford Mustang, it builds the Camaro. Base price is $2,466, or $2,704 for the convertible. The Camaro is available with a V6 for volume sales but can be equipped with performance options that include a V8.


1970: Second-generation Camaro lasts through 1981.


1982: Third-generation car is first Camaro with factory fuel injection, hatchback body style and four-cylinder engine.


1993: Fourth generation is the fastest and most powerful Camaro ever built. Declining sales prompt cancellation after the 2002 model year.

Just weeks after it thrilled crowds at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit, the Chevrolet Camaro will take a giant step closer to production if workers at General Motors' plants in Oshawa, Ontario, approve a new flexible manufacturing system this week.

GM hopes to have the Camaro and other members of its new rear-wheel-drive family of cars in production by 2010. The automaker wants to reignite enthusiasm in Chevrolet by cashing in on Camaro's heritage of affordable style and performance.

"The Camaro program is on a very good track," said a knowledgeable GM person, who requested anonymity because the company has not publicly announced it will build the car. "Things are looking good."

The stunning V8 Camaro concept was the undisputed hit of the auto show, drawing praise for its combination of futuristic design touches and retro cues that recall the legendary muscle car. It was a mainstay of Chevrolet's lineup from 1967 until it went out of production in 2002, a victim of slow sales.

GM is betting that plenty of life remains in the public's appetite for muscle cars, given the popularity of the new Ford Mustang and Dodge Charger.

Karl Scheffy, 52, a store owner from Macungie, Pa., who is cofounder and president of the American Camaro Association, recalled Monday that "as soon as I saw that thing roll down the line" at the auto show, "I said, 'Oh, my word.' "

GM will invest $710 million to build the Camaro and other members of a new family of high-performance rear-wheel-drive cars in Oshawa if the Canadian Auto Workers agree to the deal. The CAW local told its members that GM plants in the United States are also in the running to build the cars.

GM currently has two car assembly plants with about 5,600 workers in Oshawa. One plant is scheduled to close in 2008, and the second could close in 2009 without the new labor agreement.

"The plant will become a flexible manufacturing facility to build a number of models from the new rear-wheel-drive platform, including the Camaro," if the deal goes through, said a CAW person who requested anonymity because the negotiations are ongoing.

The flexible manufacturing system would allow the plant to build a wide variety of models, probably including two- and four-door models for Pontiac, Chevrolet and Buick.

The cars all come from GM's new global Zeta family of models. Engineers and designers are developing Zeta rear-wheel-drive sedans and coupes at the company's Australian tech center. The first of the cars, the Holden Commodore, goes on sale later this year in Australia.

Although the two-door Camaro would give Chevrolet a competitor for sport coupes like the Ford Mustang and Nissan 350Z, GM expects to sell larger numbers of several new sedans that reportedly will come from the Zeta family.

Those cars would give Buick, Pontiac and possibly Chevrolet prestige models that can compete on power and style with the Chrysler 300, which took the country by storm when it went on sale in 2004.

The program has not been officially approved by GM's board of directors, but that irreversible step isn't due until the company must begin paying suppliers for the equipment to build the new cars, probably sometime in 2007.

Neither the CAW nor GM will say anything about how many of the new cars Oshawa will be able to build, but the workers are voting on a proposal that includes provisions for a possible third shift in 2010. A third shift would be necessary only if demand for the cars were very strong.

Building the Camaro and other new cars would save more than 3,000 jobs in Oshawa, which was among the plants targeted for closure in GM's recent reorganization plan.

Norm




Adam4356
03-07-2006, 08:01 AM
I'm not so sure this is 100% accurate. Could be

GTO1_OHIO
03-07-2006, 10:42 AM
Build them in the US! :The_Villa

Steel Chicken
03-07-2006, 10:44 AM
does anyone find it amusing that the union has to vote on where and whether or not a companies product gets built.

I find that highly amusing.

TurkeyHawk
03-07-2006, 01:49 PM
That's part of what's wrong with this country, I am not a supporter of the automotive Unions, or any others for that matter. Yes they served a person and protected workers many many years ago, there time has passed IMHO. Let the stones be thrown...

nzarnow
03-07-2006, 04:05 PM
It better be on sale a lot earlier than 2010 or there won't be a GM to sell it...

dmkp621
03-07-2006, 08:08 PM
That's part of what's wrong with this country, I am not a supporter of the automotive Unions, or any others for that matter. Yes they served a person and protected workers many many years ago, there time has passed IMHO. Let the stones be thrown...

I couldn't agree more. Ultimately, this is the primary reason that GM & Ford are in trouble.

$0.02

rlsedition
03-08-2006, 04:09 AM
Blame the Unions and/or GM pension costs or whatever makes you feel good for GM's troubles. The fact is, the primary cause of GM's current woes is poor management direction.

As much as I like Rick Wagoner as an individual, he shepherded the Aztec with his buddy Zarella, thinking it was a great product. Those two wouldn't know a good car if it ran over their feet.

bonequark
03-08-2006, 05:27 AM
he shepherded the Aztec with his buddy Zarella, thinking it was a great product.

THAT should have been the last mistake the Board ever let Wagoner make. The Aztec (and much of the following designs that got squeezed out afterward) were symptomatic of a Management Illness that appears to still be around the halls of GM.

I read an article on Wagoner where he seems more concerned about GM "stakeholders" than building world-class cars. He has failed his mission and needs to be ejected ASAP so that sanity and great vision can return to GM. Wagoner (who by all reports is nice to children and animals) is an experiment that has failed on a grand scale and he needs to go now.

GTOHHH
03-08-2006, 06:44 AM
Besides the unions how about the fact that they are not going to be building it until MY2010? WTF?? They are going to miss the boat again. Damn!

Groucho
03-08-2006, 10:20 AM
Too close to Detroit.

Holden's distance and isolation from the dolts at GMNA helped make our cars the excellent vehicles they are.

bonequark
03-08-2006, 10:55 AM
I have been a regular GM Mgmt basher (save for Lutz and his minions), but I do have to report the good news as well. Having been a reporter in a different life, my former profession demands it.

The Lucerne looks really pretty darn good, much better than the car it replaces. The Lacrosse isn't too bad but something looks out of place on the car, can't put my finger on it. The G6 is an ENORMOUS improvement over the car it replaces and the Cobalt actually doesn't look all that bad, pretty good actually.

Has anyone noticed that some of the best new designs are coming out of foreign GM divisions? Who's in charge there? Yep, you guessed it....Lutz. That new Sabb looked fantastic and is a big shot in the arm for that franchise. Hope they build it soon. The Camaro was received with praise and rightfully so. It's another step back toward respectability for GM.

And I keep thinking what this one model would do for Pontiac....an AWD GTO. If it stole only 10,000 tinboxes from BMW coffers it would be a fantastic victory at that price point and set Pontiac on the collision course with the boys from Bavaria.

Pat
03-08-2006, 06:53 PM
And I keep thinking what this one model would do for Pontiac....an AWD GTO. If it stole only 10,000 tinboxes from BMW coffers it would be a fantastic victory at that price point and set Pontiac on the collision course with the boys from Bavaria.
I'm at the very heart of the GTO's target market and I have absolutely no desire for an AWD variant. What would be the advantage? It wouldn't be any faster, and would add even more weight onto our portly Goats.

I suppose it "could" boost GTO sales in snowy states, but I have a feeling that even if guys in the snow belt could buy an AWD GTO and drive their cars all winter, they probably wouldn't because of the salt damage, etc.

NormGTO
03-11-2006, 04:17 PM
Guys, another step closer. Looks like the Zeta platform is moving toward GM best manuf. facilities, if not one of the best in the world. Oh, Canada!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Reuters
GM Canada workers vote to accept job cuts: union
Friday March 10, 11:33 pm ET

TORONTO (Reuters) - Workers at General Motors (NYSE:GM - News) of Canada Ltd. assembly plants in Oshawa, Ontario voted in favor of job cuts on Friday, in a moved aimed at securing new investment, including a contract to build GM's new Chevrolet Camaro, the union said.

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The Canadian Auto Workers union said production members of Local 222 voted 74 percent in favor of a cost-saving agreement while skilled trade workers voted 70 percent in favor.

The vote means employees at three Oshawa assembly plants will accept some job losses -- which could number as many as 2,500 -- to avoid the possibility that GM will shut down two car assembly plants, and to give the plants a shot at landing new investments.

"Some very difficult decisions have been made, not only by the union leadership, but by our members as well," Chris Buckley, president of CAW Local 222, said in a statement.

General Motors has said Oshawa's No. 2 plant will close in 2008 when assembly of the Pontiac Grand Prix and Buick LaCrosse/Allure comes to a halt. The No. 1 plant is set to lose assembly of its Chevrolet Monte Carlo and Impala models in 2009.

But the CAW says turning Oshawa's two car factories into one flexible assembly plant that can produce different vehicles would better position GM Canada to secure as much as C$800 million ($701 million) in new investment from General Motors.

($1=$1.16 Canadian dollars)

Norm

backinblack
03-12-2006, 09:02 AM
Guys, another step closer. Looks like the Zeta platform is moving toward GM best manuf. facilities, if not one of the best in the world. Oh, Canada!

You're Correct. The Impala is widely known as the best built vehicle GM builds. I'm glad to see that the Zeta platform Camaro and GTO will be built in Oshawa, Ontario.

Additional note, I was at the Columbus (Ohio) Auto Show and talked to the guys @ from the Toledo Transmission Plant, currently assembling the 4-Speed Automatic trans.

It was just announced that the Toledo Plant was awared the job to assemble the new 6-Speed Automatic, and they are ramping up for Camaro/GTO production...Great News all around...the Camaro/GTO Plan is in motion!!

Groucho
03-12-2006, 01:25 PM
You're Correct. The Impala is widely known as the best built vehicle GM builds.

How "widely" is this known? Your house?

NormGTO
03-12-2006, 03:28 PM
The Imala, along with most of the Buick sedans are all built in Canada. Not only do they earn top awards from J.D. Power and others, the assembly facility is the most productive in the corporation according to the Harbor Report. That combined with lower operating cost on things like healthcare compared to US makes it a great choice from anyone's view point.

The current Impala is outselling the Camry and is just behind the Accord for the last couple of months. Consider both the other cars have better residuals, the consumers are making their choice to buy the larger, better built Impala.

Norm

How "widely" is this known? Your house?

Pat
03-12-2006, 04:07 PM
Is the new Impala significantly different from, say, a 2004 model? I drove one in late 2004 as a rental car (new, around 1500 miles on it), and it was one of the biggest POSs I've ever had the displeasure of driving.

If the Impala is the best GM can do, no wonder they're in the sh!tt3r.

NormGTO
03-12-2006, 05:53 PM
'06 Impala has been out since last fall. I have not driven either, but would have to drive other's in it's class to compare. :) Might want to drive the 5.3 liter V8 with 303hp.

Norm

Groucho
03-12-2006, 07:01 PM
'06 Impala has been out since last fall. I have not driven either, but would have to drive other's in it's class to compare. :) Might want to drive the 5.3 liter V8 with 303hp.

Norm


I'd rather walk. A V8 in a FWD car is a huge joke, from a dynamics standpoint.

Really...trying to talk up what is quite possibly the most boring car in history as some kind of "Star Car" is a strange tactic...

GT086
03-13-2006, 01:35 AM
I'm at the very heart of the GTO's target market and I have absolutely no desire for an AWD variant. What would be the advantage? It wouldn't be any faster, and would add even more weight onto our portly Goats.

I suppose it "could" boost GTO sales in snowy states, but I have a feeling that even if guys in the snow belt could buy an AWD GTO and drive their cars all winter, they probably wouldn't because of the salt damage, etc.

I would buy an AWD GTO over a RWD GTO in a heartbeat.

Groucho
03-13-2006, 05:14 AM
I would buy an AWD GTO over a RWD GTO in a heartbeat.

+1.

Too bad GMNA never saw fit to bring the HSV Coupe4 in as well.

Steel Chicken
03-13-2006, 05:19 AM
I would buy an AWD GTO over a RWD GTO in a heartbeat.

Me too.

NormGTO
03-13-2006, 05:26 AM
Well, I'll will not hesitate to put money where my mouth is. The Impala out sold the whole Nissan passenger car line, the whole line. Besides it sold 18K units last month only bested in corporate by the new Silverado, with the new Tahoe closely behind both of them. Love them or loath them, the medium/big size sedan is here to stay. Unlike the mini-van. :)

Money makers like these allow unprofitable cars like the GTO exist.

Norm

Steel Chicken
03-13-2006, 05:42 AM
Love them or loath them, the medium/big size sedan is here to stay. Unlike the mini-van. :)

Money makers like these allow unprofitable cars like the GTO exist.

Norm

what I dont understand is why someone would buy a impala or a monte carlo over the GTO...theres not much price difference.

Pat
03-13-2006, 07:22 AM
I would buy an AWD GTO over a RWD GTO in a heartbeat.
Why? What is the advantage significant enough to overcome the weight penalty? Please don't say "so I can race Evos from a dig..."

GT086
03-13-2006, 11:38 PM
Why? What is the advantage significant enough to overcome the weight penalty? Please don't say "so I can race Evos from a dig..."

Snow

rlsedition
03-14-2006, 03:43 AM
You don't understand why someone would buy an Impala or Monte over a GTO? Are you serious? Can you say "lifestage"?

Try doing your daily family duties (including kids) in a tight-fitting coupe and get back with us.

bonequark
03-14-2006, 04:58 AM
Snow
:D :D

That's exactly why the wife is driving a G35X and not the 2WD version. Some things are very, very important.

NormGTO
03-14-2006, 07:39 PM
Audi adds 150 lbs. for AWD system. They are more advanced today but I don't know if they'll handle the torque of a V8. The RS6 is AWD with 415hp and more trq but only in automatic where the computer controls the transmission, not the driver who can do damage.

One of the recent articles, might have been Autoweek, said they might be doing Buicks too. Now every Buford in the line up is FWD or AWD for small SUV only. I know a few relatives in the snowbelt regions that would not buy any other car for the price, Caddy or other. Bufords would not survive as RWD only. Beside DC is doing it...

Norm

RobertHammen
03-15-2006, 11:35 AM
Hmmm... the Oshawa plants (#1 and #2) are described as "intertwined". #2 (where the LaCrosse and GP are currently built) is announced to close in 2008 (say goodbye to the W-bodies - LaCrosse is going to Epsilon (G6, Malibu). The Impala and MC are built at #1 and that's around 300k cars of production. The rumor is that the Oshawa plant gets GM's new flex manufacturing capability.

So, how many vehicles are they going to build at Oshawa? Will the Impala retain its 200+k of volume if it goes RWD? Throw in a Pontiac vehicle, and a Buick Statesman, and an export Monaro, to go along with the Camaro and Impala, and you may be beyond the production ability of one plant.

There is some discussion (over on another site) if the Camaro/GTO/Monaro won't be built somewhere else. The rumors are pointing to the Wilmington, DE plant where the Solstice and Sky are built. That's only 40-50k of production - the plant used to make the Saturn L-Series. GM could re-work that plant without affecting current production, and make 100-125k worth of RWD coupes there.

Not sure there will be enough RWD volume to justify two plants, but it might happen. This would mean the Camaro/next-gen GTO would be here sooner (2008 as a 2009 model) than later (2009 as a 2010 model if they need to re-do the Oshawa plant)...

06LS2GTO
03-15-2006, 01:52 PM
Snow

No way I would drive my GTO in the snow and salt! Hell, I don't drive it in the rain if I can help it. I have a beater for those days.

CaptainDan
03-19-2006, 02:15 PM
does anyone find it amusing that the union has to vote on where and whether or not a companies product gets built.

I find that highly amusing.


GM threatened the union, "If you give us relaxed, flexible work rules, lower cost for this, lower cost for that, you get to build the next Camaro, GTO, whatever. If you don't bend over for us....you got nothing but a closed plant."

The CAW members saw the benefit to actually having jobs, and agreed.

CaptainDan
03-19-2006, 02:26 PM
'06 Impala has been out since last fall. I have not driven either, but would have to drive other's in it's class to compare. :) Might want to drive the 5.3 liter V8 with 303hp.

Norm

I didn't drive the new Impala SS (w/303 HP V8), but I did drive the Grand Prix GXP 2 weeks ago, which is the same basic car and drive train. The car has some scoot to it, and the it even sounds good. But it has big-time torque steer (what a surprise!). Stomp on it, and you're gettin' yanked off to the right-hand ditch. You get scared, and let off the gas suddenly, and it reverse torque steers you towards the left ditch.

So I just traded in my old '04 Impala SS (240 HP, big yipee) on a new ('05 is new!) GTO.