2009 GTO question

[G.T.O]

The 2009 Camaro will most likely have a V6 version for the masses, and a Z28 for performance.
1) Will the 2009 GTO be similar, and be an option on a Lemans or the like, or will it be GTO only?

2) If it IS going to be an option, what would be a good name to use as the base model? I like the old Lemans name.

[mrgto]

There won't be a LeMans version produced.

[City Goat]

I highly doubt it.

Why have a V6 GTO when it would do no good for the image of the GTO, especially since it's Pontiac's halo car. And there's no reason to have a V6 GTO when there's the G6 GTP.

Oh and don't count on a Z28. I'm placing my bets on base Camaro and SS only.

[G.T.O]

I'm not saying there would be a V6 GTO, my point is that most camaro/firebird/mustang/300 sales are/were low-performance versions. The original GTO was an option on the Tempest/Lemans, and more Lemans' were sold than GTO's.
If Pontiac has just a GTO without the supporting low-performance model, it would be a mistake. IMO

GM would be foolish not to use the Z28 name, but...

[simpleGTO]

The old ones were all Tempest if I remember right. I had a 65 and the title said tempest. I think GTO was only a option.

[nikivee]

The 2009 Camaro will most likely have a V6 version for the masses, and a Z28 for performance.
1) Will the 2009 GTO be similar, and be an option on a Lemans or the like, or will it be GTO only?

2) If it IS going to be an option, what would be a good name to use as the base model? I like the old Lemans name.

I can assure you that IF it were an option based on ANOTHER car that car will not be named Lemans.

The next gen GTO will again be a limited production halo car for Pontiac.

[bonequark]

The next gen GTO will again be a limited production halo car for Pontiac. ...with an LS3 churing out 450hp to the crank!

[wrp]

...with an LS3 churing out 450hp to the crank!Still underpowered compared to the competition then? What will the Camaro have? Anyone know for sure?

[City Goat]

...just curious by the way to why people keep referring to the next engine choice for the 09 Camaro/GTO is gonna be called the LS3.

The LS1 got power increased throughout it's lifespan. So there's no doubt that the LS2 will get the same treatment and still be in the next gen Camaro/GTO.

I say it'll still be the LS2...just tweaked ;)

[Dbluegoat]

...just curious by the way to why people keep referring to the next engine choice for the 09 Camaro/GTO is gonna be called the LS3.

The LS1 got power increased throughout it's lifespan. So there's no doubt that the LS2 will get the same treatment and still be in the next gen Camaro/GTO.

I say it'll still be the LS2...just tweaked ;)
it'll be ls3.......there are those who know:secret: :sneaky:

[nikivee]

Because the LS3 is being worked on now for 08-09 release date. The 08 Corvette will debut the engine. I believe it will be 6.2L engine. There will also be an LS9 that is Supercharged.

[City Goat]

Ah very cool. Thanks for the quick response guys :thumbs:

[jasonblair]

The old ones were all Tempest if I remember right. I had a 65 and the title said tempest. I think GTO was only a option.The Tempest was the base car. You could get it with a bench seat, 4-door, even wagon version. You could get an inline 6 up to a 326 V8 engine.

The LeMans was the sport trim model. The window sticker called it a LeMans, and not a Tempest LeMans. It came with bucket seats, a nicer front grille (that said PONTIAC), and the 326 V8.

In 64 and 65, the GTO was a package option on the LeMans. So it was actually a LeMans GTO. It came with a 389 V8, stiffer springs and shocks, and Hurst shifter (on manuals). All "PONTIAC" emblems were removed and replaced with "GTO." (This is why I don't like the PONTIAC badge on the back of the 05 and 06 models.)

In 66 on, the GTO was offered as its own model, not as an option.

[bonequark]

I think Chysler is to blame for all this. When they trotted out the 6.1lt hemi pushing 425hp, Lutz could no longer stand pat.

[Tails]

I defintely like the LS9 Supercharge line..............I feel like such a wuss with only 350 ponies.............

:drink::drink:

[WEDJ]

just remember - there are NO slow GTOs. That's part of what sets them off from other muscle cars.

And I don't think GM will start now

[MuhThugga]

Because the LS3 is being worked on now for 08-09 release date. The 08 Corvette will debut the engine. I believe it will be 6.2L engine. There will also be an LS9 that is Supercharged.

Wow, the LS2 will have a pretty short run then if the LS3 debuts in 2 years.

Isn't the LS3 supposedly going to have DOD?

[simpleGTO]

I thougth DOD was the big deal with the LS2. That was the reason for the changes from the LS1.

[RobertHammen]

I thougth DOD was the big deal with the LS2. That was the reason for the changes from the LS1.

Nope, no DOD on the LS2. 400 hp was the big deal on the LS2, not to mention throttle-by-wire (rather than cable). They tried to make DOD work, but it ruined the V-8 sound...

The LS3 will undoubtedly have DOD... I assume they'll have resolved the above issue by MY2008.

--Robert

[simpleGTO]

This is what I read,

While based on the Gen III architecture, GM calls the LS2 (and the variants to come) a Gen IV small-block. This collection of parts represents most of what separates the LS2 from the LS1.

The LS2 has a new block casting. While still made of high-strength aluminum, several sensor locations have been revised to accommodate GM's Displacement on Demand cylinder deactivation technology.

2006 GM High-Tech Performance

[bonequark]

DOD can probably squeeze another 5 mpg out of it?

[txbatman]

just remember - there are NO slow GTOs. That's part of what sets them off from other muscle cars.

And I don't think GM will start now

1974

[tosc]

what is DOD?

[txbatman]

what is DOD?

Displacement on demand. As I understand it, under light load conditions, cylinders are deactivated to improve gas mileage.

[TprGTO-[Robo Fuzz]]

I hope that a 6 cylinder option is not availible for the GTO.

[Rhino74]

Because the LS3 is being worked on now for 08-09 release date. The 08 Corvette will debut the engine. I believe it will be 6.2L engine. There will also be an LS9 that is Supercharged.

Just as an idle curiosity, do you think a person would be able to swap in an LS3 crate motor into one of our LS1 GTOs?

[RobertHammen]

I hope that a 6 cylinder option is not availible for the GTO.

6 cylinder and GTO are not compatible... you won't see this unless Consumer Reports does a hostile takeover of GM...

[RobertHammen]

Just as an idle curiosity, do you think a person would be able to swap in an LS3 crate motor into one of our LS1 GTOs?

It will depend on the PCM requirements of the new motor... I would think it may possibly be easier to do on an LS2 car, but there's no way of knowing what/how much will be upgraded when they move to the LS3.

I bet GTPprix could do it :-)

[teejay]

The Tempest was the base car. You could get it with a bench seat, 4-door, even wagon version. You could get an inline 6 up to a 326 V8 engine.

The LeMans was the sport trim model. The window sticker called it a LeMans, and not a Tempest LeMans. It came with bucket seats, a nicer front grille (that said PONTIAC), and the 326 V8.

In 64 and 65, the GTO was a package option on the LeMans. So it was actually a LeMans GTO. It came with a 389 V8, stiffer springs and shocks, and Hurst shifter (on manuals). All "PONTIAC" emblems were removed and replaced with "GTO." (This is why I don't like the PONTIAC badge on the back of the 05 and 06 models.)

In 66 on, the GTO was offered as its own model, not as an option.

The differences between the Tempest and LeMans were really trim, that is chrome, grille, etc. They had the same engine options. Your could get a LeMans in any body style. You could get bench or bucket in either. I think the OHC-6 was really the standrad engine on both, with the 326 as an option.

In 64 through 66 there was Pontiac script in the tail panel of the GTO.

[jasonblair]

In 64 through 66 there was Pontiac script in the tail panel of the GTO.I wouldn't really call the whole tail panel "badging" though.

[TORNATIC!!]

I highly doubt it.

Why have a V6 GTO when it would do no good for the image of the GTO, especially since it's Pontiac's halo car. And there's no reason to have a V6 GTO when there's the G6 GTP.

Oh and don't count on a Z28. I'm placing my bets on base Camaro and SS only.

Yeah I don't think they'll spend extra money making a 6 cylinder version when it could possibly conflict with the G6, Grand Prix, etc.. sales. They'll be spending enough money getting the V8 right.

[RobertHammen]

Supposedly the business case for the next-gen is dependent upon sales of 15-20k cars/year... no room for V-6's in that range, methinks.

[rexus31]

The Tempest was the base car. You could get it with a bench seat, 4-door, even wagon version. You could get an inline 6 up to a 326 V8 engine.

The LeMans was the sport trim model. The window sticker called it a LeMans, and not a Tempest LeMans. It came with bucket seats, a nicer front grille (that said PONTIAC), and the 326 V8.

In 64 and 65, the GTO was a package option on the LeMans. So it was actually a LeMans GTO. It came with a 389 V8, stiffer springs and shocks, and Hurst shifter (on manuals). All "PONTIAC" emblems were removed and replaced with "GTO." (This is why I don't like the PONTIAC badge on the back of the 05 and 06 models.)

In 66 on, the GTO was offered as its own model, not as an option.

Both '64 and '65 Goats had "Pontiac" on them. The '64 had it on the fuel fill door and the '65 had it on the rear panel below the deck lid.

[blkgto05]

what would be nice for the camaro ss would be the ls7 in it,while the ls9 supercharged would be in the new blue devil vette

[bonequark]

The Feds are mandating better fuel economy, so count on an LS3 with DOD for sure. More horsepower and better mpg.

[rlsedition]

Dream about an LS7 in the new Camaro all you want, but its not likely to happen due to its extremely high cost as a hand-built motor. There are reasons the ZO6 costs lots more than a regular Vette, and the LS7 is a big factor in that.

[bonequark]

RLS, what kind of LS variants and horsepower #'s were being discussed when you were at GM? Was DOD on the frontburner back then?

[rlsedition]

They were talking LS3, so that is not a rumor.
There was no talk about volume production on the LS7, but that could change with the Camaro coming. It depends on how much money people are willing to pay for that engine. I understood it represented a cost penalty of $7-8k per vehicle as a hand-built product. Is the market ready for a mid-$40s Camaro or GTO? I'm not so sure.

[bonequark]

I hope Lutz gets it (LS7) passed through as a Stage Option, much like the original GTO was for the Tempest. They could make plans to only offer it on up to say, 1,000 - 2,000 cars and save some money there by building them all at once. Who knows, but it sure would make one helluva kick-ass Halo.

[chazman]

Oh and don't count on a Z28. I'm placing my bets on base Camaro and SS only.

My advice to you: Bet ONLY what you can afford to lose.

[rlsedition]

It will be interesting to watch the Ford experiment as they launch the GT500 Mustang at (my guess) $39,995 base price. Will 4/5000 buyers per year fork out low/mid $40s for a hi-po Mustang when they could have a C6 for roughly the same money? We'll see.

[txbatman]

My advice to you: Bet ONLY what you can afford to lose.

I would say the high end one would be a ZL-1

[txbatman]

It will be interesting to watch the Ford experiment as they launch the GT500 Mustang at (my guess) $39,995 base price. Will 4/5000 buyers per year fork out low/mid $40s for a hi-po Mustang when they could have a C6 for roughly the same money? We'll see.

Hey its the "Gotta Have it factor" . They'll sell everyone of them, and quickly probably. After all, if you have that kind of money and you are not too bright, you'll buy a ford. Brains and money do not always go together.

[RobertHammen]

It will be interesting to watch the Ford experiment as they launch the GT500 Mustang at (my guess) $39,995 base price. Will 4/5000 buyers per year fork out low/mid $40s for a hi-po Mustang when they could have a C6 for roughly the same money? We'll see.

Yes they will. There are Ford faithful (especiallly when a car brand like the Mustang has been in continuous production for 40+ years) and they are waiting for this car... they're not going to look at a Chevy even if it were $30k and faster...

[txbatman]

A lot of them will be bought and stored. And then sold at Barrett-Jackson in 20yrs for an obscene amount of cash. Remember, this is a Shelby. That name alone is worth major money.

[chazman]

I would say the high end one would be a ZL-1


Z/28

[S1CGTO]

ok this is a Q for eveyone!!!!! i have a 05 gto and i was gonna get it turbo, no joke!! but if the 08-09 are going to be supercharged, is there any point in fixing my car up, if just some dude can go buy a stock 08 and take me out>??? anyone know what the specs might be for the ls3???

[xcaliber]

ok this is a Q for eveyone!!!!! i have a 05 gto and i was gonna get it turbo, no joke!! but if the 08-09 are going to be supercharged, is there any point in fixing my car up, if just some dude can go buy a stock 08 and take me out>??? anyone know what the specs might be for the ls3???
All the specs I've seen regarding the LS3 say somewhere in the range of 450hp @ the crank. However, the LS9(Supercharged) is mostly a dream of EVER showing up in the GTO, or Camaro. The LS9 is ment for the Covette Blue Devil.

My advice, mod away and do what you want. By the time this car shows up @ dealers you may be wanting to trade anyway.

[S1CGTO]

thnx dude

[MuhThugga]

ok this is a Q for eveyone!!!!! i have a 05 gto and i was gonna get it turbo, no joke!! but if the 08-09 are going to be supercharged, is there any point in fixing my car up, if just some dude can go buy a stock 08 and take me out>??? anyone know what the specs might be for the ls3???
By your logic, you should never mod a car, because no matter how much equipment you stuff under the hood, something will always be faster.

Yes, someone could dump $25K into this car and mod the living Hell out of it today, and then tomorrow Chevy could come out with a Z28 Camaro that blows the doors off that Goat.

It is simply a feeling of accomplishment, and driving WHAT YOU WANT. If you want the latest and greatest thing, then do not mod. A guy my dad used to work with alwats wanted the latest and greatest thing out there, each vehicle being "superior" to the last. He averaged a new trade every 5-6 months!!!
If you purchased your car because you are in love with it, think it is a great starting platform, and/or simply hunger for more of the already amazing power, then mod away.
It is a feeling of accomplisment and satisfaction. Not necessarily having the latest and greatest thing on the road.
Sure someone could go out and buy a later model that is faster or just as fast, but that should only give you a new power goal to achieve.:turbonaug

[krj-1168]

There will be no V6 '09 GTO. Lutz has stated that the new(2009) GTO will still be fairly low-volume(around 20,000 per yr). This means no V6 Models. The new LS3(6.2L 430hp) is likely to be the main and maybe only powerplant.
Also look for the new GTO to be even more fuel efficient thanks to the AFM(DOD) system(about 20% more for manual, and 24-30 for Autos- w/a new 6sp. Auto).

[Rhino74]

Antoher option is buy what you want now and you can always buy the latest crate LSx motor when it comes out and swap it into your Goat. You can even sell your old LS1/LS2 down the line and recoup some of the $.

[racefaceboy]

i hope a judge option is availible!!!!

[ZillaGTO]

I think "Judge" is owned by SLP (not sure that is the company) so Pontiac couldn't use it without purchasing or paying royalties. I read that just after Motortrend did there "mock up" of a new Judge.

[Jeffemac]

what would be nice for the camaro ss would be the ls7 in it,while the ls9 supercharged would be in the new blue devil vette

I was thinking limited edition ZL-1 with the LS7...:turbonaug

[jasonblair]

I think "Judge" is owned by SLP (not sure that is the company) so Pontiac couldn't use it without purchasing or paying royalties. I read that just after Motortrend did there "mock up" of a new Judge.I work at the US Patent and Trademark Office and just looked it up.

Registration No. 2,985,088
Mark: THE JUDGE
Owner: General Motors Corporation DELAWARE
Address: 300 Renaissance Center Detroit, MI
Applied for: November 21,2003
Registered: August 16th, 2005
Goods in commerce: Parts and restoration parts and accessories for motor land vehicles

No other marks for "JUDGE" are currently pending in the class for vehicles.

[ZillaGTO]

That is good to know. Looks like they picked it up relatively recently and after the article I read (an early test in MT I though).

So they could do it and if they picked it up then they must have a reason.........

Although does that mean only for parts for old Judges then by the "goods in commerce" part?

[nikivee]

That is correct ZillaGTO.

[BigRedGoat]

Also look for the new GTO to be even more fuel efficient thanks to the AFM(DOD) system(about 20% more for manual, and 24-30 for Autos- w/a new 6sp. Auto).

Any idea if any other cars will become available wih the 6 speed auto paddle shift, or is that reserved for the corvette?

[TazzMan]

Has anyone seen any pictures or drawings for the new GTO?

[dozlert]

Because the LS3 is being worked on now for 08-09 release date. The 08 Corvette will debut the engine. I believe it will be 6.2L engine. There will also be an LS9 that is Supercharged.

I wonder if we'll see the supercharged LS9 in the new goat...hmmmm.

[dozlert]

It will be interesting to watch the Ford experiment as they launch the GT500 Mustang at (my guess) $39,995 base price. Will 4/5000 buyers per year fork out low/mid $40s for a hi-po Mustang when they could have a C6 for roughly the same money? We'll see.


Yes

[CaptainDan]

If the Camaro and GTO are built off the same platform, I don't see the GTO as being a 2 door.

On another note, if the new GTO were listed as an "option package" on a downscale LeMans, or whatever, we might get better insurance rates. "It's just a LeMans!" (with 450 HP snuck in there!)

[simpleGTO]

A GTO option on other models would be fine with me(Soltice GTO or GrandPrix GTO). No four door or SUV but a small car with a big V8.Rear wheel drive of course.

[txbatman]

If the Camaro and GTO are built off the same platform, I don't see the GTO as being a 2 door.

On another note, if the new GTO were listed as an "option package" on a downscale LeMans, or whatever, we might get better insurance rates. "It's just a LeMans!" (with 450 HP snuck in there!)

I would hope GM would not make the same mistake that D/C made with the charger. 4 door muscle car- :bs:
Why not a 2 door? This platform is very adaptive according to everything I have read. It will be the basis of the Camaro, GTO, Monte Carlo???, Impala, Grand Prix(G8), a rwd for buick, and god knows what else.

And I personally dont want the goat as an option package on some lower grade car. I would not want the name degraded like that.

[CaptainDan]

Hey man, I agree. I'd prefer a coupe GTO to a sedan. Plus IF the GTO were an option offered off a more downscale model, it wouldn't be looked at as such a "rare" car. That's one of the things that is great about the current GTOs, that exclusive nature to it. You just don't see many out there. Not like the dime-a-dozen Mustangs you see at every intersection.

[RobertHammen]

The rumor floating around was that Pontiac was looking at a Quad/Coupe GTO for '09, but the last I had heard it was shot down in favor of a traditional coupe, on a slightly-bigger version of the Concept Camaro platform (think "real back seat").

No pics or anything - unless there is a screw-up, like there was with the Camaro Concept, if there is to be a new GTO you won't see anything until maybe the LA Auto Show this November (new month) or, more likely, NAIAS in Detroit in January. If you don't see it at either of these shows, there likely isn't a next-gen GTO coming...

[CaptainDan]

Since GM is likely to see the "stand alone" GTO as a failure, they're likely to return it to it's "roots" and make it an option package on it's mid size vehicle (which currently would be Grand Prix). That's fine with me as long as they, at least, make the Grand Prix rear wheel drive first!

[CaptainDan]

Besides Pontiac has the wonderful habit of offering the "top" power options in the "lesser" vehicles. I've purchased quite a few Firebird Formulas which had the exact same drivetrain and suspension as the Trans Ams, but at a lower price, and without the gaudy decals, and piles of plastic cladding. And since the Formula was lighter, it was the better performer!

[rlsedition]

So are you glad Pontiac did the Formula or upset? We at Pontiac many years ago who suggested a return to a Formula concept thought it was a pretty good idea (and we knew it would be the lightest/fastest).

[gto_in_nc]

So are you glad Pontiac did the Formula or upset? We at Pontiac many years ago who suggested a return to a Formula concept thought it was a pretty good idea (and we knew it would be the lightest/fastest).

I never had a Formula but I think this formula (pun intended) of a lightweight ringer is great! (And, truth be told, not exactly novel...) That said, though, the fully-optioned model ought to be available with the high-torque plant, too, for those less interested in viewing every stoplight as a christmas tree.

[Tails]

...for those less interested in viewing every stoplight as a christmas tree.
Only if I am the first in line.....

:drink::drink:

[CaptainDan]

And you gotta know our GTOs are sleepers too. They don't have the decals, tons of obvious cladding, and "flashy" styling like the old Trans Ams. They're more like the Formulas, "I got all the power and suspension and brake pieces as the flashy model, but I've gone into stealth mode!"

[catch22]

I love the sleeper effect these cars put off... As someone once said "...they look like something you bring your kids to the pool in..."

Kinda wish they weren't as heavy as they are... they aren't a really big car.. Dunno where that "Fatass" weight is kept...

[CaptainDan]

I love the sleeper effect these cars put off... As someone once said "...they look like something you bring your kids to the pool in..."

Kinda wish they weren't as heavy as they are... they aren't a really big car.. Dunno where that "Fatass" weight is kept...

All those horses must be pretty durn heavy.

[rlsedition]

All Holden VZs use the same architecture, whether an SS sedan, Monaro coupe, wagon or Ute. Due to the commonality in platform the cars like Monaro/GTO seem a bit heavy (and they are). This is what happens when the same underpinnings are used for many derivatives.

[BlueStreak]

Kinda wish they weren't as heavy as they are... they aren't a really big car.. Dunno where that "Fatass" weight is kept...
There are a few things that are pretty easy to unbolt if you want to (I have not)... the skid plate, the gas tank protecto-frame, and the underbody hitch brace, together that's nearly 100 lb right there.

I love the sleeper effect these cars put off... As someone once said "...they look like something you bring your kids to the pool in..."

:mswerd:

[txbatman]

I love the sleeper effect these cars put off... As someone once said "...they look like something you bring your kids to the pool in..."

Kinda wish they weren't as heavy as they are... they aren't a really big car.. Dunno where that "Fatass" weight is kept...

The reason all non goat people hate the styling is that today, it is all about style and not substance. Think about it- Everything is about appearance; the ricers-Make it loud with a fartcan, and hang every ground effect and wing on it you can, put 100 stickers on it, and you have the perfect ricermobile. Clothes-Back to the 70's tacky. Music: MTV and music videos in general made it more important to look good than have talent, and that has carried over into most everything else. No one cares about what's under the skin, its all about up front.
Pretty sad in my opinion.
just my .02

[BlueStreak]

The reason all non goat people hate the styling is that today, it is all about style and not substance. Think about it- Everything is about appearance; the ricers-Make it loud with a fartcan, and hang every ground effect and wing on it you can, put 100 stickers on it, and you have the perfect ricermobile. Clothes-Back to the 70's tacky. Music: MTV and music videos in general made it more important to look good than have talent, and that has carried over into most everything else. No one cares about what's under the skin, its all about up front.
Pretty sad in my opinion.
just my .02
:mswerd:

[MagRacer]

I love the sleeper effect these cars put off... As someone once said "...they look like something you bring your kids to the pool in..."

Kinda wish they weren't as heavy as they are... they aren't a really big car.. Dunno where that "Fatass" weight is kept...

Some things are more important than speed. I got the living crap knocked out of me from a car that crashed into me from behind and slammed me into another car in front. I drove away unharmed and the goat was still operational. The lady in front of me went away in an ambulance. Extra weight does have its advantages. You could barely notice I was in a crash. Goat = SOLID!!

[SVTDO]

Weight certainly does have its advantages. I took a GTi VR6 S/C over a fairly large curb (i was making a right hand turn....at an excessive speed).

Destroyed the frame so badly that the roof was bent.