: D1SC vs F1... Procharger


TrakDay
04-03-2006, 09:32 PM
D1SC:
Diameter = 9"
Max Rated HP = 925
Max CFM = 1400
Max Impellar RPM = 62000

F1:
Diameter = 9"
Max Rated HP = 1050
Max CFM = 1525
Max Impellar RPM = 70000

The total sizes between the 2 are very similar and the F1 would require little or no customization. The F1R is an option, but at this point I am thinking it will take ALOT of customization to make the F1R work. I can probably get what I want out of the D1SC, but I also don't want to max it out and beat the hell out of the blower itself. Should I just upgrade to the F1 unit and not worry about it? I will also probably be able to hit the 800rwhp mark a bit easier with the F1 blower rather than the D1SC.

I am probably just going to sell my D1SC head unit and upgrade to the F1 unit...

Any thoughts?

Link to Procharger Head Unit Info... http://www.procharger.com/models.shtml

lsXfanatic
04-03-2006, 09:54 PM
D1SC:
Diameter = 9"
Max Rated HP = 925
Max CFM = 1400
Max Impellar RPM = 62000

F1:
Diameter = 9"
Max Rated HP = 1050
Max CFM = 1525
Max Impellar RPM = 70000

The total sizes between the 2 are very similar and the F1 would require little or no customization. The F1R is an option, but at this point I am thinking it will take ALOT of customization to make the F1R work. I can probably get what I want out of the D1SC, but I also don't want to max it out and beat the hell out of the blower itself. Should I just upgrade to the F1 unit and not worry about it? I will also probably be able to hit the 800rwhp mark a bit easier with the F1 blower rather than the D1SC.

I am probably just going to sell my D1SC head unit and upgrade to the F1 unit...

Any thoughts?

Link to Procharger Head Unit Info... http://www.procharger.com/models.shtml

I would focus on other parts of the setup before upgrading the head unit. There are many ways to make a given setup work better and a bigger head unit does not always give you the best bang for the buck.

If you were at 750RWHP with the d1 and really wanted more, I would say go with the f1, but I would try to max the d1 first. Any problems you have with the d1 will just be worse with the f1. The d1 really shines in the 700RWHP range. If you are still in the 600RWHP range you have not even seen it in the sweet spot.

yellow04
04-03-2006, 09:55 PM
dont be a puss.... get the F-3R !!!!:drink:

LOL

camcojb
04-03-2006, 10:05 PM
I recommend an F2 and wouldn't bother with an F1. It's just an overspun D1SC in reality. My ProCharger guru has done a lot of Procharger builds and dynoing and says they really aren't much better (if any) than the D1SC and nowhere near the F2. Of course the F2 would require a custom bracket probably to fit under the hood. That is the direction I was going to go until the twin turbo kit came about.

Jody

b727pic
04-03-2006, 10:20 PM
Hey Trak....

this is the direction I was thinking as well, F1 direct bolt in, F1R creates some issues....not insurmountable but issues nonetheless. Also don't lose sight of impeller speed / boost ratio. for the track more air the better, around town having a huge blower up there might not come in to boost where you want it.....

Lots to think about, I decided to keep the P1 and see if I can manage 5-6 psi or whatever I get.....will make a decision based on those findings.

TrakDay
04-03-2006, 10:56 PM
I guess I should see how much power the D1SC can make... but I would rather just make all the changes while the car is torn apart! I dunno... decsions, decisions.

I just worry that I will be overspinning the D1SC with my new motor, although with the motor I am building and the flow it is capable of I will probably need less boost than most.

LSs1Power
04-03-2006, 11:31 PM
I guess I should see how much power the D1SC can make... but I would rather just make all the changes while the car is torn apart! I dunno... decsions, decisions.

I just worry that I will be overspinning the D1SC with my new motor, although with the motor I am building and the flow it is capable of I will probably need less boost than most.

Whats the pulley combo u running now? And at what RPM are u spinning the blower?

Dbluegoat
04-04-2006, 01:39 AM
looking at those specs, I wouldnt even bother. They are too similar, just does not seem worth it to me...

matt346ls1
04-04-2006, 03:46 AM
The D1sc have enough to get you where you wanna be. We have a C5 with a 427 and a d1sc @ 9 lbs making 680rwhp. Probably the fastest street car I have ever been in. 500+ ft lbs @ 3500 makes it a handful. The F1 will not have the longevity that the d1sc will have. And don't even think about the f-2. You will break.

Matt

booster
04-04-2006, 03:55 AM
^^^He's getting an Iron block 408, not very likely to break!

lsXfanatic
04-04-2006, 07:42 AM
^^^He's getting an Iron block 408, not very likely to break!
The motor will be the least of his worries with that setup.

I think going with a 408 is a bad decision for an ATI car. You would be much better off sticking with 5.7- 6.0. This is just my opinion, so probably not worth all that much here.

The belt can become a major issue on stroker motors.

TrakDay
04-04-2006, 08:09 AM
I just got off the phone with Bob at EPP and he highly recomends the changeover from the D1SC to the F1 for my application. We both feel pretty certain I will be overspinning the D1SC pretty easily, while I would probably be able to make 800 at the wheels safely on the F1.

So for anyone interested I am going to be selling my D1SC blower only for over $1500. But it is not coming off the car until after April 30th!

camcojb
04-04-2006, 08:53 AM
I just got off the phone with Bob at EPP and he highly recomends the changeover from the D1SC to the F1 for my application. We both feel pretty certain I will be overspinning the D1SC pretty easily, while I would probably be able to make 800 at the wheels safely on the F1.

So for anyone interested I am going to be selling my D1SC blower only for over $1500. But it is not coming off the car until after April 30th!

Watch the pulleys and impeller speed. That blower hits it's max rpm much sooner than the D1SC as far as engine rpms go. Over 1000 rpms (engine) sooner due to the gearing in the blower. Make sure your engine rpms and pulley ratios don't have you past their specs. You'll really be heating the air at that point.

Like I said, it's an overdriven D1SC almost exactly. My old car made 838 rwhp with a D1SC on 7 cylinders.

LSs1Power
04-04-2006, 09:07 AM
To calculate if you u are going to overspin the D-1SC we need your engine RPM, SC and crank pulley size?

For example, Im running my blower now at 48000-50185 RPM and its making 13-15psi. So i still have 12000 RPM left on it which is around 2-4 more psi.

2Cool
04-04-2006, 09:10 AM
Having owned a couple of ATI's, and installed more, and having had leakage and seals issues with ALL of them, I say go with the F1. At least if you have an engine oiled blower losing some to seepage won't kill ya. Losing some of the 6-8 ounces in the self contained blowers becomes critical much sooner. I personally detest ATI and their "customer service"... having to pay to rebuild my D1SC 3 times in the course of a 1200 mile lifespan before selling the car is asinine. IMO they are overhyped junk.

LSs1Power
04-04-2006, 09:12 AM
F1 is a self contained unit too

matt346ls1
04-04-2006, 09:59 AM
^^^He's getting an Iron block 408, not very likely to break!

Have you ever put an F-2 to 30lbs. The heads will lift.

Doc GTO
04-04-2006, 11:25 AM
Just install a jump-jet booster rocker from C-130 and get it over with . . .

You're Crazy Mick!!!

lsXfanatic
04-06-2006, 08:01 AM
I just got off the phone with Bob at EPP and he highly recomends the changeover from the D1SC to the F1 for my application. We both feel pretty certain I will be overspinning the D1SC pretty easily, while I would probably be able to make 800 at the wheels safely on the F1.

So for anyone interested I am going to be selling my D1SC blower only for over $1500. But it is not coming off the car until after April 30th!

Save your money. D1 would be better, but I understand that it is hard to listen to some bozo on the internet.

firechikn
04-06-2006, 01:20 PM
Hey mik, your not getting worried about a mostly stock gto are you ? (ibegoatin):stickpoke :gr_jest:

TrakDay
04-06-2006, 01:50 PM
Hey mik, your not getting worried about a mostly stock gto are you ? (ibegoatin):stickpoke :gr_jest:
Haha... considering him and braap are the reason I have so little down time when I need to do stuff I have no problem with him being faster, and he knows that! I would have missed the last 2 track rentals if it wasnt for him! Believe me, ibgoatin and I are pretty close... And he knows I will always be faster... JK

Ponyhntr
04-06-2006, 02:14 PM
I think going with a 408 is a bad decision for an ATI car. You would be much better off sticking with 5.7- 6.0. This is just my opinion, so probably not worth all that much here.

Can you please elaborate?


belt can become a major issue on stroker motors.

And you have had first-hand experience with this on a ProCharged GTO?

Ponyhntr
04-06-2006, 02:15 PM
Like I said, it's an overdriven D1SC almost exactly.

What is your source for this information?

TrakDay
04-06-2006, 02:17 PM
Can you please elaborate?

And you have had first-hand experience with this on a ProCharged GTO?

I can help with both of these. With a 408 I will make lots more powerand way way more Trq than a 346 forged motor and a hell of alot easier too! Both the motor and blower will work half as hard to produce the same numbers between a 346 and 408.

Also about the belt slip issue... It is an issue with any blower application, plain and simple. But something to know if that the GTO tensioner is set up a bit differently than other Procharged cars. Supposedly our tensioner is much better and allows for far more adjustment than the others. Will anyone know until it is tried...No... Am I going to try... Yes!

camcojb
04-06-2006, 02:36 PM
What is your source for this information?

My source is from one of their dealers who dynos centrifugals on a daily basis. That and the specs on Prochargers website. They changed the step up ratio in the blower. Other than that virtually identical specs to the D1SC.

Only 125 cfm difference. Same inlet/outlet sizes. Slightly larger inducer diameter, slightly smaller exducer diameter. Slightly higher rpm max, BUT actually 1000+ LESS engine rpm range due to the sped up impeller.

Like I said, little bang for the buck. He's nowhere near the limit of the D1SC and the F1 isn't going to do much other than heat the air some more where he's trying to go. Now the F2, that's an upgrade.

Jody

Ponyhntr
04-06-2006, 02:52 PM
My source is from one of their dealers who dynos centrifugals on a daily basis. That and the specs on Prochargers website. They changed the step up ratio in the blower. Other than that virtually identical specs to the D1SC.

Only 125 cfm difference. Same inlet/outlet sizes. Slightly larger inducer diameter, slightly smaller exducer diameter. Slightly higher rpm max, BUT actually 1000+ LESS engine rpm range due to the sped up impeller.

Like I said, little bang for the buck. He's nowhere near the limit of the D1SC and the F1 isn't going to do much other than heat the air some more where he's trying to go. Now the F2, that's an upgrade.

Jody

Although the published specs make it look like the F1 is a 'overspun D1SC' I can assure you that it is not. The F1 and D1SC do not share a single common part, aside from the oil slinger. There are several advantages to running an F1 over a D1SC. An F1 will make the same boost at a lower impeller speed (thus making less heat), allows you to run a larger pulley to help keep belt slip at bay, and the transmission is a much better, more reliable piece, to name a few.

camcojb
04-06-2006, 02:56 PM
Although the published specs make it look like the F1 is a 'overspun D1SC' I can assure you that it is not. The F1 and D1SC do not share a single common part, aside from the oil slinger. There are several advantages to running an F1 over a D1SC. An F1 will make the same boost at a lower impeller speed (thus making less heat), allows you to run a larger pulley to help keep belt slip at bay, and the transmission is a much better, more reliable piece, to name a few.

All I know is that the dealer I trust a lot is less than impressed with that blower. Said to skip right by it and go F2, or stay with a D1SC. Belt slippage has been a non-issue on the D1SC for me at 16 psi and only an 8 rib.

Jody

TrakDay
04-06-2006, 03:00 PM
All I know is that the dealer I trust a lot is less than impressed with that blower. Said to skip right by it and go F2, or stay with a D1SC. Belt slippage has been a non-issue on the D1SC for me at 16 psi and only an 8 rib.

Jody
Skipped the F1R too? Whats wrong with the F1R? The F2 is most certainly too large to fit in the GTO engine bay, but the F1R atleast has a chance!

I wish ls1tech didnt reset the site... now all the searches only turn up really recent stuff and I can't find any of the old Procharger F1R F1 discussions!

camcojb
04-06-2006, 03:04 PM
Skipped the F1R too? Whats wrong with the F1R? The F2 is most certainly too large to fit in the GTO engine bay, but the F1R atleast has a chance!

I wish ls1tech didnt reset the site... now all the searches only turn up really recent stuff and I can't find any of the old Procharger F1R F1 discussions!

Actually I know a guy who can get the F2 in the GTO, he was going to make my bracket. You're fine, do the F1. Any of these will make a ton of power. Just that a D1SC isn't close to maxed until well over 800 rwhp and I didn't know you were going that far.

MTBDOC
04-06-2006, 05:10 PM
I am having a 408W built for my '66 Mustang 'vert that is done w/ a blowthrough carb setup [Super victor manifold + carb bonnet] w/ a custom D2 blower. Apparently it has a different impeller than the D1. I'm only looking for 650-700 at the wheels ;). For a full-tilt motor, he moves to the F-series [~1000 crank hp]. Hope to get this in another 3 weeks ore so...and I'll have some more info on the ATI on a 400+ ci motor...well, once I get a LOT more work finished...and a LOT more steel welded in to the frame of the car :).

Ponyhntr
04-06-2006, 05:14 PM
I am having a 408W built for my '66 Mustang 'vert that is done w/ a blowthrough carb setup [Super victor manifold + carb bonnet] w/ a custom D2 blower. Apparently it has a different impeller than the D1. I'm only looking for 650-700 at the wheels ;). For a full-tilt motor, he moves to the F-series [~1000 crank hp]. Hope to get this in another 3 weeks ore so...and I'll have some more info on the ATI on a 400+ ci motor...well, once I get a LOT more work finished...and a LOT more steel welded in to the frame of the car :).

You must be mistaking what we are talking about (D1SC) with a regular (oil-fed) D1. They are completely different blowers.