GM mulling two GTO Concepts

[nikivee]

FROM GMI

There are rumors going around that GM is currently mulling two GTO design concepts and a winner has either been selected or will be soon. The GTO design competition is VERY similar to the one that lead to this year’s NAIAS concept Camaro. In that competition, GM pitted two design studios against one another to make a design for the new Camaro. In the end, one studio made a design that was very true to the 1969 Camaro while the other team came up with the retro-futuristic design that ultimately won and was shown in Detroit. It now appears that the GTO design competition is following a similar path. The primary concern is that an all-out retro GTO would capture the hearts of older buyers while failing to bring new/young customers into Pontiac showrooms. A modern concept could grab new buyers, but possibly could get a strong backlash from heritage GTO fans. It can be safely assumed that GM wants a balanced design recipe similar to the Camaro for the new GTO.

It also seems that Pontiac’s plans for a large RWD sport sedan (likely named G8) based on the long wheelbase Zeta chassis is back on. Design work is essentially done with Pontiac simply waiting on the engineering for the chassis to be completed to move forward. The GTO will essentially be a two-door version of this car but with highly revised styling. Since Pontiac is getting a Zeta sedan, one can assume that the rumored plans for a quad coupe GTO are dead in the water. Also, if the GTO is built on the long wheelbase Zeta, it could leave the door open for a future Pontiac Firebird. I want to stress that there are currently no plans for a Firebird, but that does not mean the door is slammed shut. Remember that Pontiac was not supposed to get the G5 (Pursuit) in the US and now it is. Unfortunately, GM is in no shape to consider spending even a fraction of its very limited cash on a car like Firebird that would sell in minimal numbers despite that fans are wanting it.

[The Black Phantom]

GM Mulling Two GTO Concepts

There are rumors going around that GM is currently mulling two GTO design concepts and a winner has either been selected or will be soon. The GTO design competition is VERY similar to the one that lead to this year’s NAIAS concept Camaro. In that competition, GM pitted two design studios against one another to make a design for the new Camaro. In the end, one studio made a design that was very true to the 1969 Camaro while the other team came up with the retro-futuristic design that ultimately won and was shown in Detroit. It now appears that the GTO design competition is following a similar path. The primary concern is that an all-out retro GTO would capture the hearts of older buyers while failing to bring new/young customers into Pontiac showrooms. A modern concept could grab new buyers, but possibly could get a strong backlash from heritage GTO fans. It can be safely assumed that GM wants a balanced design recipe similar to the Camaro for the new GTO.

It also seems that Pontiac’s plans for a large RWD sport sedan (likely named G8) based on the long wheelbase Zeta chassis is back on. Design work is essentially done with Pontiac simply waiting on the engineering for the chassis to be completed to move forward. The GTO will essentially be a two-door version of this car but with highly revised styling. Since Pontiac is getting a Zeta sedan, one can assume that the rumored plans for a quad coupe GTO are dead in the water. Also, if the GTO is built on the long wheelbase Zeta, it could leave the door open for a future Pontiac Firebird. I want to stress that there are currently no plans for a Firebird, but that does not mean the door is slammed shut. Remember that Pontiac was not supposed to get the G5 (Pursuit) in the US and now it is. Unfortunately, GM is in no shape to consider spending even a fraction of its very limited cash on a car like Firebird that would sell in minimal numbers despite that fans are wanting it.

:thumbs: I just want to see what the winner of the competition looks like! I don't think that they need to go too retro, just give it some retro touches front and rear. I am suprised that Pontiac has not totally closed the door on a new Firebird. I thought that GM did not want to have models competing with each other for sales. Keep us informed nikivee!

[JohneHoodlum]

an all-out retro GTO :rant:

a balanced design recipe similar to the Camaro :boink:

I trust Lutz with make the right decision on the design direction.

[The Black Phantom]

As long as the front end does not end up looking like the car below I'll be happy!

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachment.php?attach mentid=32492&d=1144203573

[ruski]

If they made a GTO looking too retro would you still buy it?

[Adam4356]

I'm not a big fan of retro copies. I think the camaro was done perfect and the new GTO should be done by the same people. This group really knows how to blend retro cues with new design. That is what makes a winner.

So i guess my theory of a 4door GTO is gone.

The firebird idea really needs to go away though. I owned won and i enjoyed it but camaro needs all the money and time it can have. No way in hell should GM half everything so the mustang can continue it's unchallenged reign.

[bonequark]

If they made a GTO looking too retro would you still buy it?

Depends on engine, transmission, suspension and price.

[jasonblair]

All I want is to have a return to a true hardtop... no post with a rear window you could roll down would be SWEET

[MuhThugga]

How about.... a production version of the Woodward GTO?

Make it meet the new regulations.
It has subtle retro cues, but manages to stay modern and original.

[Groucho]

Waitadamnedminnit.

The silly-looking Camaro concept is considered a "balanced design recipe" and not "all-out retro?"

WTF?

I smell doom.

[DevilYellow]

Waitadamnedminnit.

The silly-looking Camaro concept is considered a "balanced design recipe" and not "all-out retro?"

WTF?

I smell doom.

Just wait until your precious monaro shares the shares the same platform and body lines....... you'll be forced to buy a BMW or something.

[jasonblair]

I smell doom.I smell Groucho. :barf:

[Groucho]

Just wait until your precious monaro shares the shares the same platform and body lines....... you'll be forced to buy a BMW or something.

Oh, darn.


I smell Groucho.

Hiya, Sparky! Missed me?

http://www.blitzpigs.com/photos/leghumper.gif

That's your constant and predictable self-ownage you smell, boy!

[DevilYellow]

Oh, darn.



I like the car a great deal, but I am a realist. The car will not be a retro clone like the challanger - but if its boxier with some retro cues so be it. I do not think the camaro concept is that bad of an idea. A retro clone would problably piss me off - but I think that they can find a good mix of modern technology with some heritage. The old Monaro's were the muscle car along with the Falcon's down under so it would be fitting that they get the car too.

.... there is at least one good reason for having GMNA designers down there. Hopefully we will get some wheel wells big enough to fit wide tires in there!!!

[BlueStreak]

I'm not a big fan of retro copies. I think the camaro was done perfect and the new GTO should be done by the same people. This group really knows how to blend retro cues with new design. That is what makes a winner.

So i guess my theory of a 4door GTO is gone.

The firebird idea really needs to go away though. I owned won and i enjoyed it but camaro needs all the money and time it can have. No way in hell should GM half everything so the mustang can continue it's unchallenged reign.

:mswerd:

[torridredaccd]

I dont think it should be retro, if someone wants retro then they would get a camaro and if they want a more modern or futuristic design then they would get a GTO.

[nikivee]

The next gen GTO will not be "retro" as you guys put it. Geez. Get over it.

[jasonblair]

I wish they still made cars like they make Air Jordans. You know how you can get Air Jordans from years past every so often? GTO's from years past... with a warranty :drool:

[Tails]

priorities:
1. Torque
2. Power
3. Quality
4. Upgrades
.
.
.
.
.
1,000,000. Looks


:drink::drink:

[Whisky]

As long as the front end does not end up looking like the car below I'll be happy!

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachment.php?attach mentid=32492&d=1144203573


Paint the grill white with a black stripe in it and you'd have TEETH!. :barf:

[rcpepper]

Paint the grill white with a black stripe in it and you'd have TEETH!. :barf:


That looks like a modified G6 Coupe. FUGLY.

Rob

[nikivee]

That looks like a modified G6 Coupe. FUGLY.

Rob

Duh! That's because it is!

[MuhThugga]

That looks like a modified G6 Coupe. FUGLY.

Rob

G6 GXP concept.

It is known as "The Beaver"

[christian]

G6 GXP concept.

It is known as "The Beaver"

That's gotta be the ugliest beaver I've ever seen :gr_jest:

[highperf]

The next gen GTO will not be "retro" as you guys put it. Geez. Get over it.Should everyone be hoping for a rebadged Monte Carlo... or something :The_Villa

[jbls1gto]

G6 GXP concept.

It is known as "The Beaver"

Man, is that what they just unveiled at the NY Autos Show? I had only seen shots of the rear end and that UGLY spoiler. Now I know why...the front-end is even worse!

[GOATCRUISER]

I liked that read, no quad coupe GTO, hell ya, 4 door G8, hell yea, my next muscle goat and daily driver

[rawmar]

If the new retro GTO will be as retro as the Camaro Concept, GM sucks ass!

[odaxium]

i don't mind the 'retro' look exterior, but i absolutely despise the concept camaro's interior

[69CamaroSS]

Make it look like this...........

http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-1960-1969/1966-Pontiac-GTO-Red-fa-t-sy.jpg


or this............

http://home.rochester.rr.com/vampyres/images/1969% 20Pontiac%20GTO%20Judge%20Born%20Great.jpg

and you will sell the ever living shit out of the car. Who is the largest percentage of your buying market? Who has tons of discresionary income. Those god damn baby boomers thats who. The cars were the only good contribution that their "youth movement" made. Boomers will pay ass loads of coin for a GTO that they remember.

Also what the hell is GM talking about "a retro car won't attract younger buyers." Yeah maybe Johnny Tran and his Fast and the Curious crowd. But 90% of all other younger buyers (who can afford a $30,000 car) which I'd say is 25-35 years old have boomer parents that I know have brain washed these kids with tales of kick ass muscle cars. I know because I am one of them.

So personal message to GM:
I am 27 years old, absolutely love the performance cars you guys built from 64-72 and have cash in hand to buy a new retro inspired version of a Camaro, Chevelle, GTO, or Firebird/Trans Am. The only reason I own a "new" GTO is because I worked at a Pontiac dealership and took advantage of the insanely low lease payments. I was a salesman and I don't think I have to tell you how rediculous the sales were and comments made by the buying public who was not going to be fooled. I just sold my 69 Camaro SS (for a LOT more money that this new GTO costs) as it had everything I needed, traffic stopping looks, performance, coolness factor, but 1 thing it didn't have was modern driveability. Can't sport it everyday so I call on you guys to get me a retro GTO or Camaro with that "look" to market with the modern goodies ASAP because my lease is up in January and I HATE Ford but that Mustang is looking better and better as it has the look I want, the 300hp sucks big time but I can fix that, and there are no other new 2 door v8 rear wheel drive American muscle cars for sale. So it looks like I'll be buying from your competitor or buying used and you guys will lose out as I will be out of the market for a good 5 years. So build me a car, and get it to me now!

[gtomenace]

finally someone thats knows what the buying public wants. if gm does this they will not be able to keep up with demand

[Noraku_6.0L]

If they made a GTO looking too retro would you still buy it?

I would buy an Automatic, and still keep my 05 M6 as my project weekend car:gears: and me and the wife would share it alongside her lab-rat SUV.

[racefaceboy]

Make it look like this...........

http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-1960-1969/1966-Pontiac-GTO-Red-fa-t-sy.jpg


or this............

http://home.rochester.rr.com/vampyres/images/1969% 20Pontiac%20GTO%20Judge%20Born%20Great.jpg

and you will sell the ever living shit out of the car. Who is the largest percentage of your buying market? Who has tons of discresionary income. Those god damn baby boomers thats who. The cars were the only good contribution that their "youth movement" made. Boomers will pay ass loads of coin for a GTO that they remember.

Also what the hell is GM talking about "a retro car won't attract younger buyers." Yeah maybe Johnny Tran and his Fast and the Curious crowd. But 90% of all other younger buyers (who can afford a $30,000 car) which I'd say is 25-35 years old have boomer parents that I know have brain washed these kids with tales of kick ass muscle cars. I know because I am one of them.

So personal message to GM:
I am 27 years old, absolutely love the performance cars you guys built from 64-72 and have cash in hand to buy a new retro inspired version of a Camaro, Chevelle, GTO, or Firebird/Trans Am. The only reason I own a "new" GTO is because I worked at a Pontiac dealership and took advantage of the insanely low lease payments. I was a salesman and I don't think I have to tell you how rediculous the sales were and comments made by the buying public who was not going to be fooled. I just sold my 69 Camaro SS (for a LOT more money that this new GTO costs) as it had everything I needed, traffic stopping looks, performance, coolness factor, but 1 thing it didn't have was modern driveability. Can't sport it everyday so I call on you guys to get me a retro GTO or Camaro with that "look" to market with the modern goodies ASAP because my lease is up in January and I HATE Ford but that Mustang is looking better and better as it has the look I want, the 300hp sucks big time but I can fix that, and there are no other new 2 door v8 rear wheel drive American muscle cars for sale. So it looks like I'll be buying from your competitor or buying used and you guys will lose out as I will be out of the market for a good 5 years. So build me a car, and get it to me now!

i concur sir!!!! this is a fine idea. i am just glad i wasnt the only one who had that in mined!

[MuhThugga]

The last thing GM needs to do is make a retro GTO.
Despite what people think, these GTOs have not been selling poorly at all, and I have a feeling the reason is a mix between 400HP and a car that doesn't look like it is from 1969.

[moreilly]

The last thing GM needs to do is make a retro GTO.
Despite what people think, these GTOs have not been selling poorly at all, and I have a feeling the reason is a mix between 400HP and a car that doesn't look like it is from 1969.
I wonder how many of you that think a retro GTO is a bad idea are under the age of 30. The Mustangs as much as I hate to say it, and as much as you hate to admit it, look way better than the current GTO. With the Rousch package on them, wow, a very nice looking car. The price is a bit steep, but they sell like hotcakes.

If Pontiac wants to make money with the new GTO, they must get a better design than what's out there now, or I will keep my $40,000. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge GTO fan, I love the Judge in particular. The new style looks like a grocery getter, but you can't even fit groceries in it!

It needs a major redesign, in a bad way, I wouldn't expect the new design to even resemble what the current GTO looks like now. It just won't sell. Just my opinion of course...........let the bashing begin :-punch:

[QSM6SPD]

I am 23 and personally love the Classic GTO styling. But in my opinion, you can't take an older design of a GTO and make it modern. I don't think that the lines are there and personally, any of the older front ends can't successfully be modernized. They are too edgy. Don't get me wrong, they still look good, but to modernize them I dont think it would be a good idea.

The problem is, if you modernize an older style, some people will love it, and some people will hate it. Then GM would be back in the same problem they are in now with the car. The power is there, but the styling is not.

I think the new GTO that comes out should be a completely new design. And instead of making it retro or not to appeal to a certain few, I think it would be a good idea to take certain cues off the older ones. Integrate a real Ram Air setup, make a hood tach an option, actually start to offer some different options again. GM should allow you to pick between different exhaust setups/exits and chose different interior styles and different axle ratios. If the axle ratios change fuel mileage and cause the car to have a gas guzzler tax, so be it. Atleast the customer will get what thet actually want. Keep the split grill. It's been around since '59 so why get rid of it now. That in itself is a Pontiac trademark.

Another thing I have wondered, GM knew coming into the release of the current 04-06 Goats that the cars would not meet the safety standards after the 2006 model year. I think that this was just a trial run to see if they had a market for the car or not. They got feedback from the customer saying what they liked, what they didnt like, what needs changed, etc. For 33K, the power was there, but the styling was missed. They took a car that didn't cost them any more in design work and ran a test. And I personally think that they succeeded. They got their answers.

Whether the new GTO will go retro, I guess that's up to GM, but I think it would be a better idea to meet in the middle. Just my $0.02.

[MuhThugga]

I wonder how many of you that think a retro GTO is a bad idea are under the age of 30. The Mustangs as much as I hate to say it, and as much as you hate to admit it, look way better than the current GTO. With the Rousch package on them, wow, a very nice looking car. The price is a bit steep, but they sell like hotcakes.

If Pontiac wants to make money with the new GTO, they must get a better design than what's out there now, or I will keep my $40,000. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge GTO fan, I love the Judge in particular. The new style looks like a grocery getter, but you can't even fit groceries in it!

It needs a major redesign, in a bad way, I wouldn't expect the new design to even resemble what the current GTO looks like now. It just won't sell. Just my opinion of course...........let the bashing begin :-punch:

Hey, live in the last, dude.
Why don't you ask GM to bring back the 3-speed column shifter, as well? Maybe white-wall tires and carburated iron blocks, bench seating, and 5 inch wide wheels? I mean, why not go the whole nine if you want true retro?
The idea is to move into the future, and really, if you want the GTO to look like it is from 1969, then you truly are defeating the purpose of the GTO.
It was always a sleeper car, and the new ones capture that heritage perfectly. It looks like every other car on the road, and unless you aren't looking for it, you don't see it. Hell, even when you are looking for it, it still can take a second to register, "Damn, that's a GTO."
It looks like a Grand Am/Cavalier/whatever, but is packing 6 litres worth of balls.
But a retro vehicle will just stand out, catch attention, and lose the purpose of the GTO. So, what is more important, I ask you: looks or essence?

So, tell me, why, before 2005, did Mustangs look nothing like the original? Why did F-Bodies progress in design? Hell, even look at the GTO. Would people in 1969 have wanted another 1964 GTO as a 1969 model?

The idea is progression.

[moreilly]

I never once said it needs a retro design.......... I only asked how many of the younger generation thinks it's a bad idea. I'm willing to bet most do. I'm only 33, but I have always been told I have an old soul.

The only thing I wish for from GM is to make a design that catches my eye. The current GTO just doesn't do it for me. I love the interior, under the hood, and almost the front. It's the rear of the current GTO that needs a major overhaul. Not to mention putting the sport package grill on there is a spittin image of a Grand Am. The stock version catches my eye a lot more than putting that god awful sport package on there.

I don't have to have a retro look to empty my wallet, but it has to be someting when you see it, it looks like a muscle car, as the GTO is and always should be. To me the current GTO doesn't have that wow factor, "that car looks mean!"............ I love that it is mean, it is a badass car under the hood, but I want people to know it when they see it.

Only way to capture that kind of audience, which would be me, and I think a majority of other GTO lovers who don;t own one yet, is a major redesign.

I suppose you don't like the new look of the Camero either? Too retro for you as well?

I'll tell ya what, GM redesignS the GTO to look like the Woodward orange GTO I see in the header at these forums, I'll sell the house to get one. That car is mean looking, that is the design I'm looking for. That has the wow factor :-patriot:

[drivefastgto]

Hey, live in the last, dude.
Why don't you ask GM to bring back the 3-speed column shifter, as well? Maybe white-wall tires and carburated iron blocks, bench seating, and 5 inch wide wheels? I mean, why not go the whole nine if you want true retro?
The idea is to move into the future, and really, if you want the GTO to look like it is from 1969, then you truly are defeating the purpose of the GTO.
It was always a sleeper car, and the new ones capture that heritage perfectly. It looks like every other car on the road, and unless you aren't looking for it, you don't see it. Hell, even when you are looking for it, it still can take a second to register, "Damn, that's a GTO."
It looks like a Grand Am/Cavalier/whatever, but is packing 6 litres worth of balls.
But a retro vehicle will just stand out, catch attention, and lose the purpose of the GTO. So, what is more important, I ask you: looks or essence?

So, tell me, why, before 2005, did Mustangs look nothing like the original? Why did F-Bodies progress in design? Hell, even look at the GTO. Would people in 1969 have wanted another 1964 GTO as a 1969 model?

The idea is progression.

+1

Too few people seem to realize that the original GTO was basically a plain-looking sedan with a HOT motor. I love that my '06 more or less embodies that principle. Hope the next one does too...

[moreilly]

+1

Too few people seem to realize that the original GTO was basically a plain-looking sedan with a HOT motor. I love that my '06 more or less embodies that principle. Hope the next one does too...

Maybe it's just me, but please tell me what is plain looking about this car?
http://www.oracing.com/images/whitejudge.jpg

Or this car?
http://www.oracing.com/images/redgto.jpg

[Pont3]

Depends on who's looking at it. First thing people need to remember is that the current GTO WAS NOT DESIGNED BY PONTIAC and was only offerred as a 'Stand-in" for THREE years until a ground-up ALL new model could be conceived. Why are you haters still trying to tell us what we should or shouldn't like?

Back in 2002, Bob Lutz told us he was going to send us a copy of Holden's Monaro, rebadged as a GTO. We knew since then that it would look nothing like any of the past models. Why is this so difficult to grasp?

I'm a GTO nut, and have been since 1975. I bought the only GTO that's been available since 1974. I will buy the next one as well, retro or not.

[Pont3]

Oh yeah, I prefer the '70-'72. I think they look much better than the '66-'67.

[FunkyD]

Parked along other 1966 models, it wouldn't stand out nearly as much. "Plain" might be too strong a word, but the GTO has always been within the bounds of the then-current Pontiac corporate look. I believe that EVERY Pontiac built between 1965 and 1967 has stacked headlights.

[Rockin_Da_Goat]

the new GTO is designed exactly like the original GTO was... your everyday mid sized car that has a huge engine crammed in it. true then true now. whether it looks like it did in the 60s-70s is not important. the new one was built like a GTO and thus is truly a GTO

[SPDMETL]

I bought mine because OF the looks--understated , CLEAN looking ( and the horsepower , of course ! ). I hate all the holes in " modern " styled cars . The firebird up till 97 was a thing of beauty...98 and up looked like the designer was some nerd who had a fetish for A10 warthog fighter planes....peee-uke !

[Tails]

:zzz: flogging a dead horse comes to mind...................


:drink::drink:

[1965GP]

I have loved the GTO for as long as I can remember (I'm 30 now) and although I don't know that total retro is the way to go- what about including classic pontiac styling cues? The slotted taillights from the 67 (I think), the split grill has to stay of course, but maybe some flip over headlights and true grill? How about going with the coke bottle body lines that made the mid to late 60's Pontiacs so popular (in '65 the entire Pontiac line got car of the year)? You could use stacked lights on each side, you could finally go back to a turn signal on the fender and front rather than one that wraps around (please!), maybe a shaker hood (you should see my '04), Fender air extractors, the duck tail spoiler that was supposed to be available on the '72....the list goes on forever.

I saw a concept done a few years ago (before the '04 was released) and it was based off the 66/67 body. The stacked headlights looked awesome- somewhat like a Caddy CTS with an aggressive 67 GTO grill. I wish I could find it because it did a great job of combining retro and modern.

My point is I think they can make an amazing car that would satisfy the retro guys (like me) and the modern guys by using the small retro styling cues on a new car, not starting out with a '64 GTO and trying to update it.

[blushirt35]

the gto was a lemans a plain lemans with a big motor and badges , what have you. the hood is different and thas about it. so why so much a buse for the new one ill never understand. my dad had a 65 lemans the pale yellow without the gto package with a strait 6 . today or when ever pontiac offers a g6 or the grand am ok . same concept in the thinking just take it and stuff a ls2 in it . basically the same thing when you think of it but instead its a holden monaro. but do you get the point lemans/ grand am stuff a big motor and boom gto. my question is what does a gto look like? the 74 gto looked really hot a ventura with stickers , is that a gto ? its the 21st century and cars have changed with speed and 13 sec quarters comes handling now etc. after years of pontiac crap missing the high performance end and putting out garbage finally when the 2000-2003 grand prix should have been rear wheel drive with a ls1 should have been gto they gave us this beast. for 35000 i never had a faster or better handling car. i just wish i had the hood scoops .

[cerious]

FROM GMI


FIREBIRD! FIREBIRD! FIREBIRD!:burnout:

[win]

[QUOTE=moreilly]I wonder how many of you that think a retro GTO is a bad idea are under the age of 30. QUOTE]

I'm 46 and I have absolutely no interest in a retro looking GTO, or any other rehash of the 60's or 70's for that matter.

The old GTO's were gaudy and ugly in their day, and time has not made them look any better. The Judge was an embarrassment to anyone with even a modest amount of good taste.

Anyone who wants an old looking GTO can just go buy one - they made hundreds of thousand of them and there are tens of thousands of them still out there for pocket change.

It's the 21st century. Grow up and move on.

[smokehouse]

[QUOTE=moreilly]Maybe it's just me, but please tell me what is plain looking about this car?
http://www.oracing.com/images/whitejudge.jpg

Possibly I'm wrong but that car is a mess on the front end. With a bulging nose, lumps, bumps, twin headlights on each side and a stupid looking spoiler I think it is over the top. On the flip side of the coin it is a Judge and I respect that but don't bring it back, leave it be. Everything lately is a redo, cars, TV shows, movies, advertising...it's like America has no creativity anymore. Design a new GTO, not like the old one, not a re-badged Australian vehicle. A whole new car with power and looks. That's what the next GTO needs to be.

[06LS2GTO]

I bought mine because OF the looks--understated , CLEAN looking ( and the horsepower , of course ! ). I hate all the holes in " modern " styled cars . The firebird up till 97 was a thing of beauty...98 and up looked like the designer was some nerd who had a fetish for A10 warthog fighter planes....peee-uke !

Finally. I was beginning to think I was the only one that likes the looks of the current model. I didn't buy it just for the 400hp. I bought it because I love the looks and the build quality. Having owned earlier GTO's and loved them too, I think this one captures the spirit of the original in every way. I get thumbs up almost every time I drive the car and I can't buy gas without answering questions about the car. Lord Lutz said he felt the Monaro was worthy of the name and I agree totally.

[sickgoatlover]

If GM decided to do something like this:

1. No automatic Windows
2. No automatic door locks
3. No CD Changer
4. No automatic seats
5. No xtra automatic bs...

6. 6.X+ Litre engine
7. True Dual Exhaust (exitting on both sides)
8. 18 inch bf goodrich all seasons
9. Hood scoops
10. 6 speed manual
11. Jeep fold up seats w/ boysters
12. Colors that match the color schemes of Ford**

All for X<$28,000.00, Would you buy it?

**I really love ford's colors on their cars a whole lot more than any other dealership. If ford's products would perform as well as their colors look I would buy one in a heartbeat.

Sick

[teejay]

42 years old here. I think there is a lot of potential for trying to do retro and ending up with ugly. The current car is not ugly, plain maybe, but not ugly.

[meth2000]

"the new GTO is designed exactly like the original GTO was... your everyday mid sized car that has a huge engine crammed in it. true then true now. whether it looks like it did in the 60s-70s is not important. the new one was built like a GTO and thus is truly a GTO"

I Have Been Saying This Locally Now For Going On Almost 3 Yrs. .................finally Some One Who Agrees With Me.:) :-pimp: :-patriot:

[The Black Phantom]

[QUOTE=moreilly]Maybe it's just me, but please tell me what is plain looking about this car?
http://www.oracing.com/images/whitejudge.jpg

Possibly I'm wrong but that car is a mess on the front end. With a bulging nose, lumps, bumps, twin headlights on each side and a stupid looking spoiler I think it is over the top. On the flip side of the coin it is a Judge and I respect that but don't bring it back, leave it be. Everything lately is a redo, cars, TV shows, movies, advertising...it's like America has no creativity anymore. Design a new GTO, not like the old one, not a re-badged Australian vehicle. A whole new car with power and looks. That's what the next GTO needs to be.

Yawn, and the only differences between a GTO with or without The Judge stripes and identification and a LeMans where:
1) Different tailights.
2) Endura body-colored bumper.
3) The hood-scoops.
and on Judges only:
1) Rear wing, stripes, identification (as a Judge) inside and out.

See the picture below as a example of a stripper model T-37, and note how close it is even to the top of the line Judge model.

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachment.php?attach mentid=37200&stc=1&d=1150665533

[BlueVaGTO]

FIREBIRD! FIREBIRD! FIREBIRD!:burnout:

I like the firebirds too. But, I think that the current thought is that rebadging is a bad idea. It dilutes sales from one GM division to another.

Honda makes an Accord.
Toyota makes a Camary.

If GM makes 3 cars on a platform that are aimed at the same (or similar) buyer, and divides their sales by 3... GM would have to sell 3 times the cars to "look" competitive by brand.

Some analysts combine platforms and compare GM. Other's don't and compare brands. It depends on the "agenda" (viewpoint/bias, etc...) of the analyst.

(As an example: autos.msn.com doesn't show perforamnce statistics, no 0-60times, etc... even on the performance page.

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/spec_engines.asp x?year=2004&make=Pontiac&model=GTO&trimid=-1 It's a bias against performance as a decision maker.)

Anyway, rebadging dilutes the numbers for those people who want to "prove" the inferiority of certain models. That's why GM is (now) really trying to make major differences. Solstice/Sky really look different and have different driving charastics, according to the reviews that I've read....

[nikivee]

Yawn, and the only differences between a GTO with or without The Judge stripes and identification and a LeMans where:
1) Different tailights.
2) Endura body-colored bumper.
3) The hood-scoops.
and on Judges only:
1) Rear wing, stripes, identification (as a Judge) inside and out.

See the picture below as a example of a stripper model T-37, and note how close it is even to the top of the line Judge model.





Oh Yeah, That T37 and 71 Judge look look identical. :rolleyes: If you want to see no difference at all, look at a 1970 Chevelle and 1970 Malibu. Pratically the same car. At least the GTO was very distinctive compared to the everyday Lemans or Tempest. So your example doesn't hold water.

http://www.whidbeycruzers.com/chevy/PR10061040035. jpg
1970 Malibu

http://www.classic-muscle-cars.com/1970_Chevelle_LS6_454/70SS-1.jpg
1970 Chevelle

[kakygp]

I hate retro, vehicles evolve and should look different. The 05 Mustang looks like a 65 does that mean a 2030 will look like a 1990 retro styling is stupid, evolve don't go backwards Pontiac.

[nickel_city_rumbler]

While I'm not a huge fan of retro designs, I did see one concept drawing of the next gen GTO and Camaro that I fell in love with. It was done by some art student and was posted online awhile back. The GTO had retro cues in it but was shaped more like the Solstice. Does anyone happen to have that pic? The GTO was silver and it also showed the Camaro next to it?

[BV GTO]

If they made a GTO looking too retro would you still buy it?

NO! I'm of the "old" GTO generation but personally, I wouldn't buy a 2010 ,or whatever, version of a 1966, 70, etc., GTO.

I'd been a Camaro buyer since 1973, my last was a 1990 IROC-Z.
If the 73 Z/28 I bought looked too much like the 1st gen Camaro, I wouldn't have bought it. I was pleasantly stunned with the 2nd gen's great looks and couldn't wait until I could afford it. Same with the 90 Camaro I'd bought. I'd have passed on it if it looked like previous Camaros. In other words, I want something new and different looking, not a rehash of an older version. I was planning on getting the "new" 1969 Camaro even though I'm not so thrilled with it's retro looks.
I'm so glad I got my 06 GTO. I hope the new one has a Pontiac look (thank God Lutz trash canned body cladding) but with a fresh, unique look.
Leave the retro look to Ford.
JMO

[MuhThugga]

People complain that the GTO looks nothing like the original, but Charger sales are through the f*cking roof?

Why must a car look like its predecessor now?

As long as it captures the essence of the nameplate/heritage, progression is the way to go.

[The Black Phantom]

Oh Yeah, That T37 and 71 Judge look look identical. :rolleyes: If you want to see no difference at all, look at a 1970 Chevelle and 1970 Malibu. Pratically the same car. At least the GTO was very distinctive compared to the everyday Lemans or Tempest. So your example doesn't hold water.

http://www.whidbeycruzers.com/chevy/PR10061040035. jpg
1970 Malibu

http://www.classic-muscle-cars.com/1970_Chevelle_LS6_454/70SS-1.jpg
1970 Chevelle

I never said they look identical,:stickpoke I was simply posting a list of the minor changes (not including the engine, of course) that made the GTO different (in 1971) from a T-37 or LeMans. The sides of the cars are identical only the Judge stripes make it look a little different. The rest of the changes where purely simple add-ons, like I specified. The only "distinctive" thing on a 71 GTO that all by itself changed the GTO was the endura-bumper. :judge:

[nikivee]

Yeah ok.... Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that.

[txbatman]

If GM decided to do something like this:

1. No automatic Windows
2. No automatic door locks
3. No CD Changer
4. No automatic seats
5. No xtra automatic bs...

6. 6.X+ Litre engine
7. True Dual Exhaust (exitting on both sides)
8. 18 inch bf goodrich all seasons
9. Hood scoops
10. 6 speed manual
11. Jeep fold up seats w/ boysters
12. Colors that match the color schemes of Ford**

All for X<$28,000.00, Would you buy it?

**I really love ford's colors on their cars a whole lot more than any other dealership. If ford's products would perform as well as their colors look I would buy one in a heartbeat.

Sick
No. I use mine as a daily driver, as I imagine most people do. Why would I want a car like that. and even at $28k, would still not be a deal. Hell, with incentives, I got mine for 26 anyway.

[NeveGTO]

NO
Same with the 90 Camaro I'd bought. I'd have passed on it if it looked like previous Camaros.
JMO

umm......... the camaros looks barely changed AT ALL from 82-92, other than a slight fascia change in 85 and scoops added to the GFX in 91 and the gauges changed a little in 90.

and the taillights were the same in appearance from 78-92 if you wanna get picky.

[BV GTO]

umm......... the camaros looks barely changed AT ALL from 82-92, other than a slight fascia change in 85 and scoops added to the GFX in 91 and the gauges changed a little in 90.

and the taillights were the same in appearance from 78-92 if you wanna get picky.

Well to be picky, My 90 didn't look anything like my 73. I thought the 93-02 Camaros were cool lookng, sleeked up versions of the 82-92.

and to by picky again, most American manufacturers just freshened their cars year to year to make them "different" from the previous year. Hard to distinguish a 66 from a 67, 68 from a 69 GTO, etc. unless yo know what to look for.

[I Got1]

AGREED ... if GM makes a GTO that looks this bad ... the grill is TERRIBLE... then both the Mustang and Infiniti G35X get much higher on my "wish list" ... and there goes Pontiac's three-peat purchase from me!

Paint the grill white with a black stripe in it and you'd have TEETH!. :barf:

[Dabosss]

As long as the front end does not end up looking like the car below I'll be happy!

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachment.php?attach mentid=32492&d=1144203573



That thing looks like it has Bugs Bunny teeth... just damn ugly if you ask me.

[zero]

All I want is to have a return to a true hardtop... no post with a rear window you could roll down would be SWEET

Wouldnt it.. get the rolly down rear windows and just have 6 feet of open air.

I love me some A body ... maybe not super sexy.. but it does everything nice.

[zero]

People complain that the GTO looks nothing like the original, but Charger sales are through the f*cking roof?

Why must a car look like its predecessor now?

As long as it captures the essence of the nameplate/heritage, progression is the way to go.

exactly.. HELLO 4 door family car.. and the sales of muscled chargers are in the pits.. much like GT mustangs.. they dont make up much percentage of sales.
And i love the peeps that think the GTO is over priced.. how much does a v8 magnum/300/charger start for??? oh.. yea.. 325 horses for 33k. srt8s are in the 40 range folk. gt mudstains are at to above 30.

[04goatMN]

I think if the new GTO looks like this concept drawing, I'll be trading in my 2004!
http://ultimategto.com/cgi-bin/showcar.cgi?type=show&pic=/pow/pow0450

[simpleGTO]

Not me. EOM

[98Formula]

I think if the new GTO looks like this concept drawing, I'll be trading in my 2004!
http://ultimategto.com/cgi-bin/showcar.cgi?type=show&pic=/pow/pow0450

...Not me either

[rax]

Agree, I own a 2006 GTO becuase::driving: 1) the power 2) the torque 3) the power, 4) the torque 5) the power 6) the torque Ahaa! and the 7)M6 transmission, 8)New LS2 engine 9)Interiors. 10) independ suspension 11)4 seat with good space in rear (no like the old Transam).

But What I'm not happy is::The_Villa
1)Grand Prix Style 2)10 speaker system that sound like shit (poor quality sound) 3)No On Star System 4)No navigation system option. 5) Rear Light to small for the car size (looks like a Nissan Sentra).

What do you think GM? You guys going to hear us or you guys going to keep playing to Who was more power.? (Command chain Vs. Rookey Good Design)