It's Official--New VE shown

[sccaGTO]

I was looking on GM Inside News & they have already been unvieled. I like them. Will we be getting any of these here in America? Damn I hope so.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php? t=34203

[jonlee]

http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/jsp/campaigns/vecommodore/newcommodoreframe .jsp

looks awesome

[sccaGTO]

I could definately sport one of those.

[tosc]

they all look the same

[sccaGTO]

they all look the same
Take off the beer goggles. :drink: :gr_jest:

[Jontall]

All I have to say is: They better build a coupe and import it to the USA.

[The Black Phantom]

I don't know if GM will import the Commodore SS-V to the US, but the most interesting picture on GM Inside News of the new Commodore SS-V is this one:
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachment.php?attach mentid=38894&stc=1&d=1153078171

Did the VZ Commodore SS have red guage lighting? If it did not then this is a interesting change.

[WickedGoat]

That SS-V is sweet..... C'mon GM N/A............

[sccaGTO]

Did the VZ Commodore SS have red guage lighting? If it did not then this is a interesting change.
IIRC, the VZ Commedore had the same white light guages as the Monaro/GTO. Someone already has clued in on that red lighting. They see Pontiac written all over this car.

[TriShield]

I think this would make a terrific rebadged car for Pontiac if they don't saddle it with a legendary name or screw with it like they did the Monaro.

[Red coupe]

I don't know if GM will import the Commodore SS-V to the US, but the most interesting picture on GM Inside News of the new Commodore SS-V is this one:
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachment.php?attach mentid=38894&stc=1&d=1153078171

Did the VZ Commodore SS have red guage lighting? If it did not then this is a interesting change.

Interesting the new SS-v dash gose up to 280KM while all previous models 260KM , i know we'll be getting the new commodore SS ,but i'm sure we want get the new SS-v or any 6.0L version :madsign3:

[TriShield]

Here's the engine lineup and I converted the measurments to hp and ft-lbs.

Omega – 3.6L V6, peak power 240hp, peak torque 243ft-lbs, four-speed automatic.

Berlina – 3.6L V6, peak power 240hp, peak torque 243ft-lbs, four-speed automatic; 6.0L V8, peak power 360hp, peak torque 391ft-lbs, six-speed automatic.

SV6 – 3.6L V6, peak power 260hp, peak torque 250ft-lbs, five-speed automatic or six-speed manual.

SS – 6.0L V8, peak power 360hp, peak torque 391ft-lbs, six-speed automatic, six-speed manual.

SS V - 6.0L V8, peak power 360hp, peak torque 391ft-lbs, six-speed automatic, six-speed manual.

Calais – 3.6L V6, peak power 260hp, peak torque 250ft-lbs, five-speed automatic; 6.0L V8, peak power 360hp, peak torque 391ft-lbs, six-speed automatic.

Calais V – 3.6L V6, peak power 260hp, peak torque 250ft-lbs, five-speed automatic; 6.0L V8, peak power 360hp, peak torque 391ft-lbs, six-speed automatic.

[TriShield]

I notice the shift knob, gauge needles and control stalks are visible carry over from the old model.

[jonlee]

me want me want ME WANT!

[why2kmax]

Id buy that 4 dr SS-V over a retro GTO.... nice car

[jbynum69]

isn't it wierd that we live in the most progressive country in the world but our cars all look Like crap compared to other countries cars of the same kind. Ford makes cars we can't get that are awesome , gm does too. Toyota has cars in europe that would make us drool , and our country has the gaul to say that we are not allowed to get these cars over here , But didn't we make most of these companies and the movie industry is the same way( off the subject but had to go there) we are such a free country but can't buy crap that we see in other countries except what the gov't says we can or its contraband (as the 80's russian comedian use to say " What a country")

Sorry about the rant ,but I want my ride to be mine not the exceptability of someone else!

[sccaGTO]

I think this would make a terrific rebadged car for Pontiac if they don't saddle it with a legendary name or screw with it like they did the Monaro.
Hell, I'd buy it if they called it a Bonneville. Everyone has their opinion on cars carrying "legendary" names. My opinion is that our GTOs don't deserve the bashing that they get.

[rcpepper]

Definately would be my next family car. Hopefully out here early next year as a Pontiac, Chevy, whatever. Just bring it here.

Rob

[TriShield]

Hell, I'd buy it if they called it a Bonneville. Everyone has their opinion on cars carrying "legendary" names. My opinion is that our GTOs don't deserve the bashing that they get.

I would hate to see this car get pig-piled in the US because GM puts a name on it that it was never engineered to wear or that's impossible to live up to.

If they call it a Pontiac Commodore, G8, or whatever, I'd be interested in it. Just please don't remove all the features, don't mess with the styling, and don't put the fuel tank in the damn trunk.

[TriShield]

I really want to see the VE Ute SS. That's the variant I'm most looking forward to.

[olly]

Trishield......the ute and wagon variants are still at least a year away. Here are some more pics......... http://www.vecommodore.com.au/15/

[bonequark]

If they call it a Pontiac Commodore, G8, or whatever, I'd be interested in it.

Tri-shield, do you ever listen to yourself? So you would want or not want a car based on what they NAME IT?!?!?!?! Do you for once in your life have any idea how totally stupid and idiotic that sounds?

[sccaGTO]

I would hate to see this car get pig-piled in the US because GM puts a name on it that it was never engineered to wear or that's impossible to live up to.

If they call it a Pontiac Commodore, G8, or whatever, I'd be interested in it. Just please don't remove all the features, don't mess with the styling, and don't put the fuel tank in the damn trunk.
So, a 400HP Bonneville wouldn't appeal to you? I really hate the idea of the "G" naming scheme. Plus, I think the name Commodore would sound better behind the name Buick. Pontiac could just call it a Grand Prix & be done with it. Plus, if GM actually has intentions of bringing this car to the U.S., they would have engineered it to survive crash regulations & keep enough trunk room. I'd also like to see the Ute come to America.

[TriShield]

Tri-shield, do you ever listen to yourself? So you would want or not want a car based on what they NAME IT?!?!?!?! Do you for once in your life have any idea how totally stupid and idiotic that sounds?

My point went right over your head.

The GTO name is exactly what killed the Monaro in this country. It did not emobody the GTO image in most people's heads when they hear GTO and doesn't look like one.

I don't want to see what happened to the Monaro repeated with another nice Holden car if they bring it here.

[TriShield]

I've noticed quite a bit of split opinion on the VE from Australians. I've seen many comments that it looks too much like they supersized the previous Astra, or that it looks too Japanese and not enough like a Holden.

[jonlee]

maybe GM should bring holden and HSV over to the US? and kill off failures like buick and saab?

[rawmar]

So, a 400HP Bonneville wouldn't appeal to you? I really hate the idea of the "G" naming scheme. Plus, I think the name Commodore would sound better behind the name Buick. Pontiac could just call it a Grand Prix & be done with it. Plus, if GM actually has intentions of bringing this car to the U.S., they would have engineered it to survive crash regulations & keep enough trunk room. I'd also like to see the Ute come to America.

They did move the fuel tank in front of the rear axle, which is a must in U.S. crash test regulations.

-Dennis

[TriShield]

maybe GM should bring holden and HSV over to the US? and kill off failures like buick and saab?

That would be NICE.

[TriShield]

They did move the fuel tank in front of the rear axle, which is a must in U.S. crash test regulations.

-Dennis

That's what they fed everyone, just like the car doensn't pass "airbag regs" for 2007. We all know it's because Holden is phasing the chassis out. The tank was moved to make room for the big exhaust pipe on the other side of the car.

[lively]

I've noticed quite a bit of split opinion on the VE from Australians. I've seen many comments that it looks too much like they supersized the previous Astra, or that it looks too Japanese and not enough like a Holden.
I see BMW 3 series profile.

[TriShield]

I see BMW 3 series profile.

Me too. Especially the doors and greenhouse profile.

[ADIOS]

Here's the engine lineup and I converted the measurments to hp and ft-lbs.

Omega – 3.6L V6, peak power 240hp, peak torque 243ft-lbs, four-speed automatic.

Berlina – 3.6L V6, peak power 240hp, peak torque 243ft-lbs, four-speed automatic; 6.0L V8, peak power 360hp, peak torque 391ft-lbs, six-speed automatic.

SV6 – 3.6L V6, peak power 260hp, peak torque 250ft-lbs, five-speed automatic or six-speed manual.

SS – 6.0L V8, peak power 360hp, peak torque 391ft-lbs, six-speed automatic, six-speed manual.

SS V - 6.0L V8, peak power 360hp, peak torque 391ft-lbs, six-speed automatic, six-speed manual.

Calais – 3.6L V6, peak power 260hp, peak torque 250ft-lbs, five-speed automatic; 6.0L V8, peak power 360hp, peak torque 391ft-lbs, six-speed automatic.

Calais V – 3.6L V6, peak power 260hp, peak torque 250ft-lbs, five-speed automatic; 6.0L V8, peak power 360hp, peak torque 391ft-lbs, six-speed automatic.

I wonder how long it will take for someone to fit one of those 6-speed autos in our cars?????

[isszy]

Probably Old News, but:

http://yahoo.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail. aspx?articleID=18445&vf=3

Holden has developed a secret plan to pitch the new VE Commodore SS to its parent General Motors as a Pontiac sports sedan model in the USA.

The future of the plan, which estimates a $20 million cost to legalise the car for North America, could rest on a sample drive by the General Motors board of directors in Detroit early in August.

At the same time board heavyweights, led by chairman Rick Wagoner and product czar Bob Lutz, will also drive a new long wheelbase WM Caprice luxury saloon.

At one stage the WM was going to be exported to the USA as a Buick Park Lane, a plan which has been scrapped. Holden execs hope that the drive might renew GM interest in that car.

But it is the SS-V, with its 6.0-litre V8 (complete with 270kW), six-speed automatic transmission, 19-inch wheels and aggressive bodykit that Holden chairman and managing director Denny Mooney sees as having the most potential as a replacement for the current Pontiac Grand Prix.

While Mooney won’t be at the board-drive, he will be in Detroit the week prior at a leadership meeting with the chance to extol the car’s virtues.

“If we had available (production) capacity I’d love to take the SS because it would make a great Pontiac,” said Mooney. “Pontiac is already talking about the fact they want to go rear-wheel-drive. A brand like Pontiac, in my opinion, could take this car and sell it.

“I think if you talk to anyone at Pontiac they’ll tell you they’d love a rear-wheel-drive performance Grand Prix.

“But I am not going to over-sell this thing. We are going to send these cars over there and let them speak for themselves.

Mooney said the $20 million legalisation costs would primarily relate to complying with crash regulations.

“Between engineering, prototyping and tooling it would be in the neighbourhood of $20 million,” he said. “We’d have to crash a lot of cars to run their specific tests, but from a performance standpoint it wouldn’t be an issue.”

In part that’s because the new Commodore’s fuel tank moves in front of the rear axle line, something crucial to US crash approval.

Sending the SS to the USA to replace the ageing front-wheel-drive Grand Prix would extend Holden and Pontiac’s relationship, established when the Monaro was exported to the USA as a GTO from late 2003. That deal has only just expired.

But Mooney was also adamant that such a plan would depend on the demand for VE and WM in the domestic and established export markets. The Elizabeth assembly plant in South Australia has a capacity of about 145,000 cars per year. He does not expect spare capacity for the first 12 months of VE’s life.

“We have to wait and see how this car goes. If we had the available capacity then we’d be looking at the US as a potential market.

While built-up exports to the USA are no more than a plan at the moment, both VE and WM will be sent from the Elizabeth assembly plant to the Middle East as Chevrolets.

The WM will be sold as a Buick Royaum in China, but will be sent in a ‘CKD’ (completely knocked-down) pack to be assembled on-site. It will also be exported to Korea and sold there as a Daewoo.

The short wheelbase SS-V or an even more sporty Holden Special Vehicles version will go to the UK in extremely limited numbers, replacing the out-of-production Monaro.

Cars are also being sent to Opel in Europe for evaluation. But Mooney is dubious about a positive reception there.

The export of built-up cars is a separate deal to Holden’s role as a developer of the rear-wheel-drive architecture that makes it s debut underpinning VE and WM. That will be used by a number of future vehicles to be manufactured in Asia and the USA as well as Australia.

Net poll: Do you like the look of the Holden VE Commodore? Vote now.

Drive blog: New Commodore: What do you think? Have your say now.

Visit drive.com.au's Holden VE Commodore special feature for all the latest news

[auzzie]

There is a video of the release on carpoint. It includes the ss v, calais v, and the capriece (top LWB version of commadore). Warning it is half an hour long.

http://ninemsn.video.msn.com/v/en-au/v.htm?g=f45d0f12-1361-4d77-934b-a8cd09939f95&f=&fg=copy

For articles on the VE there are heaps at:
http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/car-reviews/search.aspx?N=278+378&Ns=pCar_HasImage_Int32|1||pCar_SortDate_DateTime|1

In response to coments on the adaptability to the US market. It has been designed from the grouind up to pass all international saftey regs. i.e. the rear suspension is the exdact distance apart for us utilities ( i don't think the old one was) even though a ute hasnt been made fro AUS let alone the US. So its future proof.

There are 3 main packages "base", "performance", and "luxury" The all have individual centre consoles and trims etc. The centre stack also contains the window conrtols and mirror controls so conversion of door sill and centre console is not required for LHD RHD changes.

Currently LHD prototypes are running down the line with RHD production models.

You could see it before 12months in the US IMO because what would holden rather make AUS customers wait longer for base models while US customers get lucrative and expensive sports variants. Or make US customers wait losing possible sales with lucrative margins just to reduce the waiting time on base model commadores.
Plus Holden can increase capacity to supply the US with an extra shift since only 2 of the 3 shifts are currently opperating at holden.

anyway just my 2c.

[Desertraptor]

I'm one of the Aussies who's of mixed ideas on this new car. I like it but I don't like it. But I've felt the same way with each new variant of the Commodore. this one just happens to be a whole new car/chasis designed and built 100% in Aus instead of an Opel.

they have also made mention of a VE based Monaro already. Apparently when they said the last monaro to be built they meant on the current body ?

[TriShield]

Apparently when they said the last monaro to be built they meant on the current body ?

I think that's what they meant.

[ruski]

why are they restricting these LS2s to 362HP? Or are they specifying wheel HP?

[RobertHammen]

These aren't LS2's - that motor is exclusve to HSV. These are the L76 truck motor.

I would rock the SS-V if it were labeled a Pontiac Grand Prix and sold here in the States by September of 2009 (when the GTO is paid off and I'll probably be looking for a year-round daily driver)...

[ruski]

These aren't LS2's - that motor is exclusve to HSV. These are the L76 truck motor.

I would rock the SS-V if it were labeled a Pontiac Grand Prix and sold here in the States by September of 2009 (when the GTO is paid off and I'll probably be looking for a year-round daily driver)...


Interesting. When I saw 6.0L V8, I automatically assumed LS2.

[MuhThugga]

Bring it over here.
My dad needs to ditch the Sebring.

[Jontall]

Can't wait to see the VE based Monaro.

[sccaGTO]

Bring it over here.
My dad needs to ditch the Sebring.
Hell, an Aveo is better than a Sebring. :gr_jest:

[KenP]

These aren't LS2's - that motor is exclusve to HSV. These are the L76 truck motor.

I would rock the SS-V if it were labeled a Pontiac Grand Prix and sold here in the States by September of 2009 (when the GTO is paid off and I'll probably be looking for a year-round daily driver)...


And its pure 100% personal speculation here, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if the new GM RWD "base" V8 engine is the L76, ala, next Grand Prix and maybe Impala. And some LS2 varient is in the next GTO to give it a "edge". Aren't the two "similar" just that L76 passes Euro III (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_III) whereas the LS2 didn't? Or did L76 add DOD and/or some de-tuning?

I guess i'm more asking why they used it instead, but yea, question still stands.

And i never knew the L76 was in trucks till now, see what fun stuff you can learn on tha in-ter-web... :) And how amazingly little I know of current trucks.

[RobertHammen]

And some LS2 varient is in the next GTO to give it a "edge".

Actually, the LS2 is superceded by the LS3 in MY 2008 Corvettes (unless this has slipped). So, higher-power cars will get the LS3 (and some might get the LS7 or similar).

Holden continued to use the LS1 in the 2005 Monaro/Commodore/Ute, leaving the LS2 exclusive to Holden and Pontiac. Due to the Euro3 emissions standard, they couldn't build cars with the LS1 after January 1, 2006 (why the Monaro died when it did)...

[KenP]

Actually, the LS2 is superceded by the LS3 in MY 2008 Corvettes (unless this has slipped). So, higher-power cars will get the LS3 (and some might get the LS7 or similar).

Holden continued to use the LS1 in the 2005 Monaro/Commodore/Ute, leaving the LS2 exclusive to Holden and Pontiac. Due to the Euro3 emissions standard, they couldn't build cars with the LS1 after January 1, 2006 (why the Monaro died when it did)...


Ahh, but isn't that giving the LS2 a awfully short life? Well, unless the GP/Impala and Camaro SS(?) will be sporting it in the more mainstream tier, where as the LS3 in the Vette and GTO, in more of a halo roll.

[bonequark]

My point went right over your head.

The GTO name is exactly what killed the Monaro in this country. It did not emobody the GTO image in most people's heads when they hear GTO and doesn't look like one.

I don't want to see what happened to the Monaro repeated with another nice Holden car if they bring it here.

If THAT was your point, then you need a new crystal ball. Badly...and quickly.

[MuhThugga]

Hell, an Aveo is better than a Sebring. :gr_jest:

lol....

He wants an Impala, but he wants something in a manual transmission.....

Commodore is the happy medium.

[sccaGTO]

lol....

He wants an Impala, but he wants something in a manual transmission.....

Commodore is the happy medium.
If he had the choice to buy a Commodore here & did that, he wouldn't regret it.

[MuhThugga]

I know he wouldn't.

He loves my GTO, so I know he would love the Commodore. It would have the power he desires, the room he needs, and the transmission he requires.

[Whisky]

I think this would make a terrific rebadged car for Pontiac if they don't saddle it with a legendary name or screw with it like they did the Monaro.


I was just thinking the same thing!

[auzzie]

the L76 was rushed in on VZ commy to have a base V8 for the range that complyed with euro3. L76 is DOD compatible but it was not enabled on the VZ but it may be enabled on the VE.
HSV got the LS2 which is not DOD compatible but as it is a performance brand that performance was seen as more important than fuel consump.

For VE it is predicted the performance of the LS2 HSVs will be lifted and DOD will be enabled on the L76 for the general V8 used by holden.

L76 etc. with DOD will become the standard GM V8 imo. with the LS range of engines without DOD being reserved for high end performance models where fuel consup isnt as important as power.

[rlsedition]

So finally they release production car photos of the VE sedan. Three years ago there was a Pontiac version planned (different front fascia, grilles, wheels) which did very well in our marketing focus group trials. Then the business case went belly-up due to GM management stipulations.

In the interim GM Design got cold feet about building a car that was pretty tame aesthetically (versus, say, the 300C or Mercedes CLS sedan), so they began exploring bolder design themes which departed from the Commodore look.

Since I left the program 14 months ago, I don't know what the current direction is, but I surely hope Pontiac gets a shot at this sedan, no matter its final exterior appearance.

[monaroCountry]

Interior of VE v BMW
http://www.imagehosting4free.com/uploads/b85a574ef 7.jpghttp://media.trafficdriver.com/evox/stilllib/ bmw/m%20series/2006/2ca/55.jpg

Seats of VE v Audi
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/gallery/data/52 6/medium/sta2.jpghttp://media.trafficdriver.com/ev ox/stilllib/audi/a3/2006/5ha/52.jpg

Sides of VE v BMW
http://picsorban.com/upload/img_new_commodore%20sf g.jpghttp://images.webmakerx.net/Photo/2003/BMW/3% 20Series/lg_k8652.jpg

Back window and back door and front vents of VE v BMW
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/gallery/data/52 6/medium/cals2.jpghttp://www.m5board.com/photopost/ data/541/DSC00820.JPG

Front wheel arch of VE v BMW
http://www.charous.com/uploads/1fe2a9f14e.jpghttp:// www.cartype.com/images/thumbs/1/bmw-m3-csl_front.jpg

[Dion]

We have the LS4 over here, is that a FWD only variant?

[auzzie]

commadore is only RWD. always has been always will be (except for a few recent AWD model). So its RWD from the base 180kw omega 3.6ltr V6 to the top of the range caprice or HSV V8.

[TGO]

Does anyone know if the VE's wheel - wells are larger than the previous generation (VZ)?

[RobertHammen]

Does anyone know if the VE's wheel - wells are larger than the previous generation (VZ)?

Yes.

BTW, more interesting VE info here (chat with Tony Stolfo, Holden's design boss):

http://blogs.drive.com.au/2006/07/webchat_with_hol den_design_bos_1.html

[Groucho]

maybe GM should bring holden and HSV over to the US? and kill off failures like buick and saab?

..and P-P-Pontiac!

Absolfeckinglutely!

[JerseyGTO]

Sorry to be the voice of dissent but I don't like it. I'm sure it's fun to drive but the styling does nothing for me. The trunk is stubby, greenhouse is bulbous, front fascia is blah.

[8ball]

Sorry to be the voice of dissent but I don't like it. I'm sure it's fun to drive but the styling does nothing for me. The trunk is stubby, greenhouse is bulbous, front fascia is blah.

+1

It's nice, but like the GTO, it's not very aggressive looking. It's different, but still very subtle and I don't think it would do that great in the American market.

[alextaylor29]

All of those need to come to the states. Replace all current FWD models with those, especially the current 5.3L FWD Caprice. Torque steer on that apparently is so wicked it's almost unsafe!

[rlsedition]

With all due respects, you obviously haven't driven a FWD 5.3 V8 Impala, Monte/GXP. Torque steer is there but easily controlled and you can actually drive them safely in winter snows.

[simpleGTO]

With all due respects, you obviously haven't driven a FWD 5.3 V8 Impala, Monte/GXP. Torque steer is there but easily controlled and you can actually drive them safely in winter snows.
Good drive your FWD car in the snow and salt and keep the good stuff out of the weather.

[meatfoam]

isn't it wierd that we live in the most progressive country in the world but our cars all look Like crap compared to other countries cars of the same kind. Ford makes cars we can't get that are awesome , gm does too. Toyota has cars in europe that would make us drool , and our country has the gaul to say that we are not allowed to get these cars over here , But didn't we make most of these companies and the movie industry is the same way( off the subject but had to go there) we are such a free country but can't buy crap that we see in other countries except what the gov't says we can or its contraband (as the 80's russian comedian use to say " What a country")

Sorry about the rant ,but I want my ride to be mine not the exceptability of someone else!


Where did you get that idea from??
You better start travelling, son!!

[speedking]

Looks like a civic, the wing sucks.

[blkgto]

I like it. I say bring it over!

[BlueFlyingGoat]

I say bring it over and if you're worried about snow traction get some snow tires + traction control. No worries then!

OR I'd sure be up for a Coupe4 based on that platform...:turbonaug

Either way, GM better throw the "hail Mary" pass quick before it gets taken off the field!:bomb:

[HamsGTO]

That is a really pretty car... It reminds me alot of a CTS-V or the bigger STS-V honestly. Either way, I'm impressed. I'd drive that over a CTS-V anyday :)

- Chris

[3timegoatowner]

[QUOTE=sccaGTO]I was looking on GM Inside News & they have already been unvieled. I like them. Will we be getting any of these here in America? Damn I hope so.



I heard they would not be sold here.

[swegeon]

the ve wont be sold in the us as it is. they will have to americianise it first,by that i mean you gotta make it UGLY

[jdo6696]

the ve wont be sold in the us as it is. they will have to americianise it first,by that i mean you gotta make it UGLY

you callin' my car ugly? :D

they can't bring it to the US as is because of the stupid-ass crash safety standards you guys don't share with us, same reason our gas tanks are in our trunks. Putting the Pontiac grills on it is a whole 'nother issue I would rather not even get into.

[jdo6696]

I don't know if GM will import the Commodore SS-V to the US, but the most interesting picture on GM Inside News of the new Commodore SS-V is this one:
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachment.php?attach mentid=38894&stc=1&d=1153078171

Did the VZ Commodore SS have red guage lighting? If it did not then this is a interesting change.

what is weird to me is that is almost identical to the layout of the gauges and cluster of my wife's '06 VW GTi. I mean the center panel and everything are about the same. Which to me would be cool, because I like that layout.

[RobertHammen]

they can't bring it to the US as is because of the stupid-ass crash safety standards you guys don't share with us, same reason our gas tanks are in our trunks. Putting the Pontiac grills on it is a whole 'nother issue I would rather not even get into.

The VE was designed with North America in mind. The gas tank is under the back seat, ahead of the rear axle, not behind it like it was on the Monaro before GMNA had it moved (and changed for the VZ Monaro). All it would take to export them here would be a few crash tests (guesstimate I read was $10 million USD). Building them here, that's an entirely different story...

--Robert

[burble]

In the interest of comparing power to weight ratios, I was trying to look up the curb weight of the new VE. Does 1690 kg - 1825 kg (3725 lb-4023 lb) sound accurate? Can anyone narrow it down for the SS?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VE_Holden_Commodore

[Fusebox]

what is weird to me is that is almost identical to the layout of the gauges and cluster of my wife's '06 VW GTi. I mean the center panel and everything are about the same. Which to me would be cool, because I like that layout.

Thats what they did, they copied Audi. Cant beat em, join em.

[kbaba]

I think this would make a terrific rebadged car for Pontiac if they don't saddle it with a legendary name or screw with it like they did the Monaro.

Just bring everything Holden has to offer over here as HOLDEN - GM sells SAAB's, why not HOLDEN's?

Wake-up GM!

[Harpo]

Thats what they did, they copied Audi. Cant beat em, join em.

Not really. To save development cost, they spec'd a previously developed instrument panel component from a supplier. About the only thing they could do after that point was change the gauge cluster overlay and needles.

[QuickSilverTiger]

Just bring everything Holden has to offer over here as HOLDEN - GM sells SAAB's, why not HOLDEN's?

Wake-up GM!

I understand that you and many on the forum feel this way. I admire and respect what Holden does. I am a GM guy, but get a little frustrated with the "sitting in the fence" attitude they often times exhibit. Decisions must be made, but discontinuing the Pontiac nameplate, and introducing Holden will not go over as well as you think.

Many people know Pontiac as the "Excitement" division. In the last 6 years, Pontiac as a name plate has won championships in: NASCAR (2)championships (Tony Stewart and Bobby Lebonte), Rolex Grand Am Daytona Prototype (Points and Driver), and recently Grand Am GT (GTO: Points, Driver and Manufacturer), as well as many NHRA championships, where you see the Pontiac name all over.

Now the guys over in Austrailia have awesome drivers and cars. The race series Super V8 Cars is a very competitive series, Holden has won its share. They have drag racing that is very exciting. They are very much car guys like we are. If you were to switch the two name plates (the most extreme scenario) people from Down Under and Here will say:huh:??? then followed up by a hearty :bs:!!!

What most people are saying essentually comes down to replace Pontiac with Holden. That is not going to happen, GM will make this work. The more the car buying public impresses upon the engineers what exactly they want, the better off WE will all be.

I say, let's give GM an opportunity here. It's all anybody is asking for.

[kbaba]

GM doesn't need to replace Pontiac - they need to replace SAAB with Holden.

SAAB's don't fit the bill. What they're trying to do with SAAB is market an upscale BMW like marque - but I've driven their new SAAB's - they don't cut the mustard - Holden would, and then some.

Holden has got something going on here that could really re-energize an old, tired, afraid to fail company that's become so mediocre it's failure is becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Look at DMC, they have reinvented themseves again - if Magnum's weren't so overpriced I'd have one now...there's probably a lot of us here that would have one of the SRT8 quadruplets if they were priced a little closer to the GTO.

[RobertHammen]

What is harder for a company to do?

Rebuild an admittedly "damaged" brand (as Lutz referred to Pontiac)? Or, discontinue that brand (causing all kinds of grief with dealers and their franchise agreements - bear in mind GM spent 3+ years and a billion dollars buying out all of the Oldsmobile dealers when they ended that brand) and introduce an entirely new unknown brand, Holden, to the market?

GM faced a similar quandary with Saturn... what they elected to do is make Saturn into Opel USA. The Aura shares similar styling cues to the Opel Vectra, the Sky is identical to the Opel GT, and the replacement for the Ion will be an Opel Astra class car (maybe even some models imported from Europe). The only NA-designed and engineered Saturns are the current crappy Ion and Relay (minivan), the VUE (soon to be replaced by an Opel/Daewoo-engineered product), and the forthcoming Outlook crossover.

It would appear that GM is interested in doing the same thing with Pontiac. A large sedan (G8?) and RWD coupe (GTO?) with either have Australian engineering and/or production (but probably not direct styling, though Aussie Mike Simcoe, who designed the Monaro, holds a leadership position in styling at GMNA). Rumors are flying that there will be another small-to-midsize RWD/AWD platform that will spawn a sedan (Torana) for Holden, and maybe a coupe (Firebird?) and sedan for Pontiac...

[ruski]

Can't compare bringing in SAAB with bringing in Holden.

SAAB was already an established brand in the USA, most people knew SAAB cars, and there was quite a following and even a SAAB cult.

Who knows Holden in the USA besides us?

[MuhThugga]

Look at DMC, they have reinvented themseves again - if Magnum's weren't so overpriced I'd have one now...there's probably a lot of us here that would have one of the SRT8 quadruplets if they were priced a little closer to the GTO.

You mean DCX?
That would be Daimler Chrysler

DMC is Delorean Motor Company
They haven't revitalized. :gr_jest: