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My Bassani takes a dump!

6K views 52 replies 28 participants last post by  wrp 
#1 · (Edited)
Okay folks, looking for help here...

I bought a Bassani exhaust from Maryland Speed a few years ago, along with Kooks SS headers and Catted 3" mid pipes for my 2006 GTO. I've since added a good bit of HP over stock (over 500 RWHP), and I think this may have overwhelmed the Bassani system. A few weeks ago, I heard a loud backfire directly under my seat (where the Bassani x-pipe muffler sits). Definite exhaust leak from that location afterwards. On the lift, you can see that the muffler casing has split open down the seam. Bassani offers a lifetime warranty on their systems, but do you think they will honor that given all of my other upgrades? I'm running a Procharger at 6psi, plus a cam and 60lb injectors. I may need to move to a 3 inch system like the Kooks or Spintech, but I don't want to spend the money if I don't have to.

I'm really wondering why the Bassani muffler split open like that. I believe that so much fuel was going through the system, that it made it's way down there and detonated. BEHE tuned my car and put the cam and injectors in. They claimed that the previous tune was way too lean, but I never had an issue with it in over 2 years of hard running. Since I'm no expert, I went with what they said as truth, but now I have to say that I'm not too sure. I'm not real happy with them in general. They took some shortcuts on things, and did some work half-assed, hoping I wouldn't notice, so the trust is gone.

I'm wondering if the tune is now way too rich? Since I've added the cam and 60lb injectors, I always smell gas in the cabin and all around the car at idle. At WOT the smell is almost overpowering. Now with the exhaust leak on top of that, it smells like someone doused the whole car in gasoline every time I step on the go pedal!

I'm going to need to repair or replace the exhaust in any case, but I would hate to do that only to have this type of detonation again. I hear good things about Andrew at CSP in PA. He was originally my fist choice during the last round of mods, but since he doesn't do suspension work, I went with BEHE since they were also a Pedders installer. I'm thinking of getting in touch with him, to see if he'd be a good choice to do the exhaust repair/replace, and more importantly, check out my tune.

Any thoughts from the great and the wise out here would be appreciated! :)
 
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#2 ·
Call Bassani I think you will be surprised
 
#9 · (Edited)
Think I will to see if they'd be willing to replace that section of the exhaust. I really like the Bassani sound, but if they want big $$, I might as well just upgrade to the Kooks 3" setup. The Kooks and Spin Tech systems both offer 3" diameter all the way, plus a true x-pipe that would replace the Bassani perforated muffler x-type and 2.5" diameter.

In any case, I think I need the tune checked along with other things on the car before I commit to a new exhaust.
 
#3 ·
.......I'm wondering if the tune is now way too rich? Since I've added the cam and 60lb injectors, I always smell gas in the cabin and all around the car at idle. At WOT the smell is almost overpowering. Now with the exhaust leak on top of that, it smells like someone doused the whole car in gasoline every time I step on the go pedal!
Are you saying you went with bigger injectors after the tune? .....or were they in there for the tune? You definitely shouldn't be smelling fuel and need to stop wondering and get it checked out.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Sequence of events: 4 years ago put on Kooks and Bassani + tune. 2 years ago put on the Procharger + tune. End of last year added the cam, spring kit and lifters + tune (conservative tune because of 43# injectors). Beginning of this year switched the 43's for 60's and had the car tuned. Started smelling gas as soon as the cam went in. It got really bad after the 60's went in.

You added a cam and changed injectors without a tune?
See above.

I don't think that it'd be possible to get enough gasoline down into the pipes to cause an explosion that would split the exhaust, without noticing some severe issues with the car. If you're in MD you need to talk to Rick Kim at RKT56, or come to Delaware and see Fran at Race Proven Motorsports.
I wouldn't think so either, but now I'm not sure. BEHE cut corners as I said, and they even left a few hangers off the exhaust after I got the car back. Could it be possible that the center section was loose enough to let some air in and cause a detonation? No issues with the car at all except the gas smell, loud exhaust, and a complete lack of traction. Car runs very strong.

Where is Rick Kim? Haven't heard about RKT56.


I'm running your exact exhaust setup on my 2006 (Kooks stepped, catted mids, Bassani). Granted I'm only 505RWHP (TVS1900), but I've not experienced any exhaust problems. I have a little backfire on decel, but no gas smell ever. FWIW.
Did you upgrade the cam and injectors?

If you went to bigger injectors without the proper tuning (thats the way you made it sound) you blew it up with extra fuel and you will probably blow other stuff up too, like all the oxygen sensors, foul out everything in the combustion chamber, etc.
Like I said, I got tuned at each step of modification. I just don't think I trust the tune. The smell of gas is so strong now that I think it must be running way rich. I did check the plugs recently to see if any of them were fouled, but they were all good. I think I need a second opinion (tune-wise) for my Goat.
 
#5 ·
I don't think that it'd be possible to get enough gasoline down into the pipes to cause an explosion that would split the exhaust, without noticing some severe issues with the car. If you're in MD you need to talk to Rick Kim at RKT56, or come to Delaware and see Fran at Race Proven Motorsports.
 
#6 ·
I'm running your exact exhaust setup on my 2006 (Kooks stepped, catted mids, Bassani). Granted I'm only 505RWHP (TVS1900), but I've not experienced any exhaust problems. I have a little backfire on decel, but no gas smell ever. FWIW.
 
#7 ·
If you went to bigger injectors without the proper tuning (thats the way you made it sound) you blew it up with extra fuel and you will probably blow other stuff up too, like all the oxygen sensors, foul out everything in the combustion chamber, etc.
 
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#11 ·
Smelling gas after a cam install is not that unusual. I've looked through the forum and many others have said the same thing. However, the strength of the smell in addition to the leaking exhaust is a whole new dimension in stinky, and yeah I need to get this looked at pronto. That's why I'm out here.

I had it up on a lift at the body shop (some ditz from NY t-boned me last month, but that's a whole 'nother story). The tech took some pics and I'm waiting for him to send them to me. I'll post them as soon as I get them.
 
#12 ·
When it started smelling really strong, I did check initially, but they were dry. Checked the plugs too, but they were clean. I haven't checked after a WOT run though. Gonna do that, but I'm nervous about pushing her in her current condition.
 
#14 ·
Had a neighbor check it while I was revving the engine, but that was moths ago (last spring), but it was okay then. Like I said, the car runs strong, and it turns over quite easy, even when dead cold.
 
#20 ·
I've already emailed Andrew at CSP, and am just waiting for his response. I'll call Bassani as soon as I have some decent pics of the muffler. The car seems okay to drive as long as I keep my right foot on Valium.


Unless the gasoline smell actually got worse when you swapped injectors (not psychosomatic), I wouldn't think much of it. I'm assuming you're catless... big overlap cams will push unburnt fuel straight out the exhaust. My garage smells like straight gasoline if I idle in it for more than a minute.

I can't imagine that any combustion event taking place in the exhaust would be enough to rip a muffler open. I can shoot flames out my tail pipes with a 2 step- literally dumping several cylinders' worth of fuel into the exhaust with every revolution of the crank, at 3200 rpm, and it ignites in the exhaust and does the whole burst of flames and a gunshot crack thing, and all it ever does is make people laugh. The sheer volume of gas flowing through the exhaust pushes the whole thing out the exit of the exhaust- maybe you've got a clogged muffler? Any change in sound before the event, maybe you lost a baffle or something?

Or, dare I ask, did you hit something on the road to rip it open?
No, the smell definitely seemed more present when I switched to the 60lb injectors. It was definitely there before, but the tune was more conservative because BEHE was concerned that I'd run out of fuel up top with the 43's. This is why I think this is more of a tuning issue. I did expect the smell to be there because of the cam, but this is way worse than it should be. With the exhaust leak it truly is overpowering. By the end of my 30 minute commute to work, I feel nauseous if I get on the gas hard. If I drive it sanely, then it's just barely tolerable. I am running catted mids (Kooks), so it should not smell this strongly. However, I suppose that a blockage could have occurred that may have caused the muffler to blow apart, but I wont really know until it's all apart.

I definitely did not hit anything. I was going for it though, and BANG! Pretty sure it happened between shifts.

If their customer service is 1/2 as good as Corsa, they should take care of you.

I had 2 corsa mufflers replaced on my 98 WS6, no questions asked, they paid shipping both ways, I just had to give a credit card for a deposit.

Ryan
I hope so.

Well, this is the 6th bad story I've heard about BEHE. I've heard three good ones, so I thank you for that. They charge an arm and a leg for everything, and apparently do good work for their regulars, but half ass for the newbies/one timers.

Sorry to hear about the muffler, I have nothing to add to that, Just wanted to thank you for the feed back.
I don't like to bad mouth anyone, but yeah, if you are on the fence about having them do work for you, I'd stay away. They did a lot of work for me, like my entire suspension upgrade, clutch and dirve-train upgrades, and most of the work seems pretty solid. However, the guy who did the majority of the work left the shop during my upgrades (citing darkly that he didn't like the way the business was run) and BEHE's son took over. That, I believe, is where the majority of the problems comes from. The guy is nice enough, but he's not careful, and misses things. Important things. And nobody is checking the work. No quality control. Yeah. Stay away.

Hook up a couple of spark plugs in your exhaust tips and see if you can get some flames.
:bomb:
 
#16 ·
Unless the gasoline smell actually got worse when you swapped injectors (not psychosomatic), I wouldn't think much of it. I'm assuming you're catless... big overlap cams will push unburnt fuel straight out the exhaust. My garage smells like straight gasoline if I idle in it for more than a minute.

I can't imagine that any combustion event taking place in the exhaust would be enough to rip a muffler open. I can shoot flames out my tail pipes with a 2 step- literally dumping several cylinders' worth of fuel into the exhaust with every revolution of the crank, at 3200 rpm, and it ignites in the exhaust and does the whole burst of flames and a gunshot crack thing, and all it ever does is make people laugh. The sheer volume of gas flowing through the exhaust pushes the whole thing out the exit of the exhaust- maybe you've got a clogged muffler? Any change in sound before the event, maybe you lost a baffle or something?

Or, dare I ask, did you hit something on the road to rip it open?
 
#17 ·
If their customer service is 1/2 as good as Corsa, they should take care of you.

I had 2 corsa mufflers replaced on my 98 WS6, no questions asked, they paid shipping both ways, I just had to give a credit card for a deposit.

Ryan
 
#18 ·
Well, this is the 6th bad story I've heard about BEHE. I've heard three good ones, so I thank you for that. They charge an arm and a leg for everything, and apparently do good work for their regulars, but half ass for the newbies/one timers.

Sorry to hear about the muffler, I have nothing to add to that, Just wanted to thank you for the feed back.
 
#21 ·
In the old days, we would take a beater and get it going pretty good through a tunnel. Take your foot off the gas, shut off the engine, pump the gas a couple times and then turn the key back on.
:bomb:
People have blown mufflers right off the car.

With a carb, even on engine decel it would feed some gas, pump the pedal and the engine sucks up the fuel and dumps it right out the exhaust. Turn the key back on and you light the fire. All that raw fuel pumped into the exhaust lights off and you get a good backfire. Too much and it will blow the exhaust apart.


You had a little one of those.
 
#22 ·
I believe this to be the case as well. I just got a response from Andrew at CSP, and he feels, based on the description I gave, that this is a tuning issue, and that BEHE may have turned something off that they shouldn't have (like the front O2 sensors perhaps). I think that's right. I believe they also may have defeated the fuel cutoff when releasing throttle. Not 100% sure about this, but the car runs and backfires in such a way as it never did before. I'm not talking about the normal GTO popping that happens on decel. This is that, but with the added explosive effect you get when fuel is still being pumped out. When I'm hard on the gas, and then have to back off quick, it backfires way more than it used to. Like truckloads of gas is still pouring out when it should not be. This is also when the gas smell is at its worst.

Gonna get my car up to CSP just as soon as I can.
 
#25 ·
If some idiot defeats DFCO in a misguided attempt to eliminate popping on deceleration, it can easily load up the exhaust with gas when the throttle is lifted in gear. All that fuel being sucked into the cylinders without burning also doesn't do your rings and cylinder walls any good, as it will wash away the oil film.
 
#27 ·
Not even sure what his reason would be for defeating DFCO, or if he did in fact defeat it, but it wouldn't surprise me. Yeah, gonna be driving like a grandma till I can get the whole car sorted.
 
#28 ·
I thought the body shop had taken pics of the muffler, but it turns out that it was the insurance company. I'm trying to get hold of the field agent that took the pictures, to see if he'd be willing to send them to me. Otherwise, I'll need to get the car up in the air enough for me to snap a few shots. I'll post as soon as I have them.

In any case, I don't think this failure has anything to do with Bassani build quality.
 
#29 ·
Have you gotten in touch with Behe? They've done work on my cars and stood behind their work each time. Call them and ask to make it right.

I've been down this road before (not with them) and my first inclination is to take it back to the source first. Let them try to fix it first before you spend time chasing down Bassani.
 
#37 ·
Sorry for not responding sooner, but there has been nothing new to report. I spoke with Andrew at CSP and I'm scheduled to bring my car to him after the new year, so I'll let everyone know the results after that. Right now, I drive the car very gently, which is hard cause it's such a beast! :turbonaug

ur not alone my bassani muffler split at the weld also with no backfire.......i was just driving down the road, hit a bump and all of a sudden it sounds like i got open headers......look under the car and there was a 6" tear up the muffler like superman ripped it open with his bare hands....and the car DID NOT bottom out and hit......i junked it and bought a magnaflow
Wow, okay, that's the first time I've heard that another GTO had the same/similar issue. Perhaps my tune is okay, or did not cause the Bassani to fail, but I won't really know that until I've had some expert eyes on the thing. If it turns out that the unit failed due to a poor weld, then I'll go after them for a replacement under their lifetime warranty.

I just did a Google search and found several references to Bassani muffler failures. SVT forums, Charger Forums, Modded Mustangs Forum, etc. It may just be a quality issue. I've had no issues at all with Corsa, and I have had B&B, Borla, Remus, and other high-end exhaust manufacturers fail. It usually resulted from too-thin pipes but others were weld issues.

Also, you never mentioned if you ever got the tune checked.
See above about the tune, but I will definitely check into the other reported Bassani failures, and use that as leverage should I go after them for a replacement. Thanks for that, however, I really don't want to go with another exhaust system as I love the Bassani sound. If it is a quality issue, then I may be persuaded to go with either the Kooks or Spintech 3" systems, but I'm hoping to restore what I currently have.
 
#34 ·
ur not alone my bassani muffler split at the weld also with no backfire.......i was just driving down the road, hit a bump and all of a sudden it sounds like i got open headers......look under the car and there was a 6" tear up the muffler like superman ripped it open with his bare hands....and the car DID NOT bottom out and hit......i junked it and bought a magnaflow
 
#35 ·
I just did a Google search and found several references to Bassani muffler failures. SVT forums, Charger Forums, Modded Mustangs Forum, etc. It may just be a quality issue. I've had no issues at all with Corsa, and I have had B&B, Borla, Remus, and other high-end exhaust manufacturers fail. It usually resulted from too-thin pipes but others were weld issues.

Also, you never mentioned if you ever got the tune checked.
 
#38 ·
Even though you are already going to CSP, I wanted to chime in and say Andrew is a very good guy. I went to him for a tune and some injectors and he was very professional. I have some background in tuning, but not on GTOs. He took the time to explain a few things to me and tell me about what he was doing.

Also, I've had the car for 6-9 months tuned and it is running great. Considering how rough my cam is I am very impressed with how driveable it is and how well it idles.
 
#39 ·
Thanks. That's good to hear. Yeah, I've heard nothing but good things about Andrew and CSP from the members out here, whose opinions I value the most. I initially wanted to go with Andrew for my last major round of mods, but since he's not local to me and does not do suspension work (a big part of my mod list) I went with BEHE instead.

When I originally contacted Andrew, he was very open and honest about what he could and couldn't do at his shop, as well as making some suggestions about my mod list. For this and his great reputation, my gut was telling me to go with him for as much of the work as possible, but I ignored my gut and went with (what I thought was) the practical route. Oh boy, do I wish I'd listened to my gut...
 
#40 ·
**UPDATE**

Okay, I think it's finally over, for now anyways. Attached is a picture of the Bassani X-pipe muffler that's clearly blown open and burned out. Andrew at CSP took the pic and described the Bassani material around the seams as being a bit thin, however, it should not have failed like that. As it turns out, the BEHE tune was whack! The air tables were okay but the fuel was way out of balance and super-rich, like I'd suspected, and likely caused the detonation that ruined the exhaust.

Bassani was good about this though, and they honored their lifetime warranty, with the only caveat being that I had to send them the damaged section (at my expense), and wait a few weeks for them to manufacture me a replacement. Given the probability that my tune is what destroyed the original muffler, I can't say anything bad about how Bassani handled this.

Andrew was a bit stumped initially by the readings he was getting when looking at the BEHE tune, but he figured out, not only what was wrong with my tune, but why it was so messed up in the first place. BEHE had failed to account for the electronic pigtail adapter (which had originally been installed by Tony's Corvette Shop) to allow the stock MAF to work with the larger injectors after the blower was put on. This is a very neat way of doing things, that Andrew said he hadn't seen before, but was going to recommend for those that wish to keep their stock sensor in place (for cost reasons).

If I'm understanding things correctly, The pigtail that Tony's put in is a very clever way around the problem, because it tricks your stock MAF into greatly expanding the range of fuel delivery, behind the stock sensor readings, but if you don't connect to the pigtail for your readings, then the sensor data on the stock MAF is going to appear to be incredibly lean cause it thinks your using the stock 38 lb. injectors, and not the 60 lb. ones that are actually in there. Andrew thinks that BEHE completely ignored the pigtail, and it would explain why the tune was soooo rich, because they were proceeding from incorrect readings.

He found other mistakes as well, but you get the picture. Through Andrew at CSP, I went from 505 WHP when I arrived to 565 HP after he finished. That's a 60 HP gain folks, and I got also got over 50 lbs more TQ!!

I picked up the car yesterday and truly enjoyed the 2 hour ride back to Maryland. The car is running sweet, smooth and very strong. The acceleration is very linear, like it should be, and no flat spots. The engine runs up as smoothly as it did when stock, but it pulls much harder of course!

Andrew is a great guy to work with. Patient, and very dedicated to what he does, and the results speak for themselves. While I was there, there were a couple of guys who'd come down from New York with their 1955 Chevy Belair Rusto-mod! Awesome car. It was featured in the August 2012 issue of Hot Rod mag. Guys like that coming to Andrew should say it all for anyone wondering if they should bring their car to him for tuning. ;)
 

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#44 ·
Lots of words
Glad you got it all worked out, and that you're making the power you should be. BEHE is whack. Just search for "BEHE problem" on LS1tech or corvetteforums.com to see what I mean.
 
#45 ·
Thanks bud.So nice to be driving a fast car again, and even nicer to be driving a well balanced one!

You drive it today? and will there be an track appearance for you Saturday?
You know I did! What's the story on Saturday? Is that a test and tune night at Capitol? If so, then yeah, I might go. Not sure if I'll run though. I might be able to squeak a high 11 sec pass, spinning through 1st and 2nd gears, but I'll need slicks on 15's if I ever hope to get a time worthy of the HP I'm making.
 
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