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New 6sp trans & new twin disc clutch=rattling noise?

25K views 163 replies 35 participants last post by  Big Tex 
#1 · (Edited)
I need input from anyone who has had similar issues, or has heard of something similar. I just had a pro mechanic install one of Tick Performance's top of the line (most expensive) 6 sp manual transmissions, and a twin disc street slayer clutch, and now there's a loud noise that occurs in 1st thru 4th gears, but only during acceleration, and only between 1700 to 2,100 RPM.

It's a loud vibration noise which can also be felt through the shifter knob. I've put 250 miles on the car so far since the work was done. It began to occur as soon as it was driven off of the lift and down the street once the work was completed, and it hasn't ceased. The correct clearence spec for the clutch was observed, and a new pilot bearing and slave cylinder was also installed.

I just don't know whether this is the clutch assembly or the new transmission making this noise. There's also a slight rattle in nuetral while the engine is idling, but it isn't very loud, so I can live with that.

Any ideas anyone? And has anyone had a simililar result with these products? Feel free to send me a PM if you would rather do so. I'll be calling tick performance, but I'm anticipating that they will want to blame it on the clutch, and that the clutch retailer will want to blame this on the transmission. So before I talk to either one, I wanted to get some input from you guys.

A friend of mine is going to put the car up on the lift for me tomorrow, and we're going to run it to produce the noise to see if we can pinpoint it with a stethascope.

NOTE: Other than the loud noise which is occuring from 1900-2100 RPM without fail, the street slayer clutch works flawlessly. The clutch pedal feel is just slightly stiffer than stock, and the clutch has NOT exibited any chatter at all from the first minute I drove the car. And even in stop and go traffic, it's a pleasure to drive. No problems there. And the Tick performance transmission, shifts fine. It's simply this loud vibration noise that is completely unacceptable, and that is the topic of this thread. I need all the assistance I can get to narrow down which part is causing this.
 
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#64 ·
It sounds like a pilot bearing issue or a throwout bearing issue if there is one.

Both the clutch manufacturer and trans builder said no noise should exist. The trans is already ruled out. I didn't see if the clutch manufacturer ruled out a defective clutch.

The pilot bearing could have been installed incorrectly, or is the wrong bearing as someone else pointed out.
The slave may need to be shimmed, as well. Or have the shim taken out.

A lot of possibilities. I understand your frustrations, though. Check the link to my Project Silverback thread in my sig. Many, many frustrations have been had.
 
#65 ·
Pilot bearings only make noise when the clutch is disengaged and all that is connected to your motor is the inputshaft inside the pilot bearing. It will sound like marbles in a can when you push the clutch in.

With that being said, if the pilot bearing was MISSING, it would make noise all the time. Are you 100% sure it is installed?
 
#66 ·
Thanks guys I watched the guy install it when the car was on the lift, so I know it's in there. The slave cylinder was measured for the correct distance, but I didn't do the measuring personally so I can only assume it's correct. Maybe it's the throwout bearing. I dunno.
 
#67 ·
I will wade in very slowly as to not sound dumb but....
Without hearing the noise I can only offer my recent experience with a Mustang trans swap.
Took the car to a very good shop to have a Magnum XL 6 speed conversion done. The trans shifted fantastic and I was in love...except for the noise and heat coming from the transmission. The noise was loud and I could not stand it. I did what the op did and told everybody on the boards about my problem, looking for advice. I then decided to look into it and low and behold the shop had left the lower shifter boot out of the car. Now that it is in we have no more noise.
My lesson was to look for the simple stuff first.

I'm not saying that is your problem but my point is it will probably be something very simple that you find.
Good luck with your journey.
 
#68 ·
I hope it is something very simple and very cheap, because I'm getting sick of dumping $$ at this problem and on this car. I'm no foreigner to spending big dollars on muscle cars. I've been doing it for years, and with a number of vehicles. In fact, I've dropped $20K short of a year's gross pay into my 70 Chevelle project. But atleast with the Chevelle, it involved a complete body-off-frame resporation and a power level of 800 HP.

I've spent so much $$ on this little GTO transmission and clutch replacemen deal that it's embarrassing me as well as breaking the bank! I'll let you guys know what I find in hopes that someone else here will be spared the aggrivation and time consuming hassle I've had with this endeavor.

BTW, while all this has happened, what adds to my aggrivation with this car is a separate issue which has been a vibration that I've had for the past10 months, and a mechanic who deals with these cars and many supporting vendors too, told me after driving the car that it's the CV joints in the half-shafts that are defective.

The good thing about that is that G-Force was good enough to replace them for free, so it's just a matter of me getting under there to replace them. AAAAArggghhh...it just never ends. Anyways, the vibration has nothing to do with the noise that the car has made ever since the transmission and dluth work was done.
 
#69 ·
My RST twin-disc "resonates" between 1500 and 2000 RPM in 3rd and 4th gear only. Another guy who had the same clutch had the exact same phenomenon. It's been 50,000 miles now since the clutch went in, zero issue. I just stay away from that RPM and heavy loads in 3rd and 4th.

:shrug:
 
#71 ·
I was orginally suspecting this. thanks for letting me know despite the vendor's denial of the possibility of this occuring. It does sound like a resonating noise, but a very harsh loud one at that. It's so loud that it can be heard from outside the car!! It sounds like crap, to a point where it's embarrassing. I've been thinking about replacing the thing with a new factory stock clutch to see if the noise goes away. Expensive way to diagnose noises though. I wish that I saved the old clutch, but I didn't. you can be certain that if I do end up spending more $$ on a new stock clutch, and after installation the noise is then gone, that I'm going to chime back in here to let everyone know.

What you just said. It doesn't make sense.

The clutch is engaged at idle as well. Do you mean when the clutch pedal is depressed at idle?
that's a very good question.
 
#72 ·
Mine is the same way, if I were to load it up REALLY heavily in 3rd or 4th below 2000 RPM it sounds like the trans is about to fall out. I've checked everything out and there's no issues. Trans itself was rebuilt by FLT a few years ago and it's presented no issues.

I was fortunate to experience my rebuilt trans both with a stock clutch and the McLeod. The noise didn't appear until I installed the McLeod. I confirmed that this same noise was also happening at an identical RPM in the same gears on a fully stock car with over 100k miles less than mine. At that point I knew it was the clutch and just stopped driving in that RPM range if I could help it. Really, you're lugging the engine at those engine speed/gear combinations anyways.

It's more than likely that the Street Slayer you have either is unbalanced or has found a resonant frequency of something inside the trans. Much like my RST. I never got a balanced RST/flywheel combo, so I'm thinking this is highly likely.
 
#75 ·
Well the noise occurs the most in 4th gear which turns out to be from 35-40 MPH. And it doesn't take much throttle input to produce the noise either. it isn't like I have to go full throttle for the noise to occur. It isn't very unusual at all to give the engine some gas at 40 MPH while in 4th gear without having to downshift during every day traffic conditions. In fact, to leave the trans in 3rd gear until you're above 40 MPH is a bit out of place for the daily commute since you're not beating on the car then. So it really isn't a matter of lugging it.

I would consider 1800-2000 RPM in 4th gear to be lugging it if I'm going full throttle. But as I've said, this noise only take a slight amount of throttle input to occur. I also think that it's pretty pathetic if after paying $1400 for a clutch assembly, that it didn't come balanced. the thing is, I don't have any idea where I can take it in order to have it checked to see if in fact it is balanced or not. I was hoping the one of the driveshaft places that I dealt with can do that, but that told me no they couldn't.

I had a boot missing on mine too and was gone since I bought the car from the first owner. Spent a lot of time chasing nvh, and never would have thought it was something so simple. I was ready to rebuild the trans until I realized what I was missing so the guy above me who said check the basics is right. Also, what kind of shifter do you have? A couple of the base bolts in my Hurst loosened up on me once a while back and caused a very similar vibration and noise to what you are describing, at about the same rpm range. And they didn't come loose enough to feel any slop either. Might be as simple as loctite. At least I hope it is. I've been there man...very frustrating. Good luck, you'll have it fixed soon....It is also possible to mess a pilot bearing up when you install it. Sh*t happens. Take a look if you get the opportunity.
Thanks for the input on this. I have the stock shifter, and never had any problems before. But I'll checkout the loose bolt possibility like you've said. I think I should've just stayed with the stock clutch. Too many variables here. What a nightmare!!!
 
#74 · (Edited)
I had a boot missing on mine too and was gone since I bought the car from the first owner. Spent a lot of time chasing nvh, and never would have thought it was something so simple. I was ready to rebuild the trans until I realized what I was missing so the guy above me who said check the basics is right. Also, what kind of shifter do you have? A couple of the base bolts in my Hurst loosened up on me once a while back and caused a very similar vibration and noise to what you are describing, at about the same rpm range. And they didn't come loose enough to feel any slop either. Might be as simple as loctite. At least I hope it is. I've been there man...very frustrating. Good luck, you'll have it fixed soon....It is also possible to mess a pilot bearing up when you install it. Sh*t happens. Take a look if you get the opportunity.
 
#78 ·
Once again ill offer to have the clutch looked at as I did months ago.our clutch doesn't make noise just to be clear the clutch makes no noise certain ly that would be heard outside of the car and I think many with our clutch have stated that.calling RPS won't get you anywhere its a Street Slayer not a Rps. Maybe ups dropped it but again our clutch doesn't make noise if you would like it checked pick up the phone and give me a call.also the clutch is most certain ly balanced.
 
#79 · (Edited)
calling RPS won't get you anywhere its a Street Slayer not a Rps.
Bro...

All 2010 Camaro, LS powered F-bodies, and LS powered GTO clutches are available from Hendrix Engineering under the "Slayer" clutch name.
www.hendrix-engineering.com
980-521-0722
Not only is it posted on their website that you sell their clutches under a different name, but you also took their press photo, used photoshop to single out the pieces (in very rough manner), and placed your wallpaper of logos behind it.

Tell me again it's not an RPS.
 
#80 ·
Since you have some time I would call and send the clutch to Thomas. I don't think anything is wrong with your clutch but it wouldn't hurt to have them check it out.
 
#81 ·
I gotta admit, at this point, I'm very tempted to just buy a $300 ctutch assembly from rock auto, and install it to see what happens.
 
#83 ·
If I still had my spare clutch I'd send it your way but I really don't think it's your clutch. With everything you've been thru already contacting Thomas and getting it checked out is the cheapest and easiest option. Luckily this isn't your daily driver.
 
#84 · (Edited)
Luckily this isn't your daily driver.
Uhmmm....you're joking, right? I thought that I've clearly stated that this IS my daily driver. In fact, I'm driving it around now with the old transmission which doesn't have 5th, 6th, nor reverse gears. Ever since I opted to change out the trans and the old clutch, I've been dealing with this problem with this car. If I send out the clutch, the car will be laid up for the entire turn around time, and if I spend the money for the shipping both ways, borrow my girl's carto get me around during the wait time, and then get ans answer back like "there's nothing wrong with our clutch" I won't even be confident of that as being fact unless I had a third party check it out anyway. I just don't know who I can bring it to. Since it only makes the noise in such a narrow RPM band, I can't help but think that it's some type of balance issue. But I can only guess because I'm still stumped with this until further investigation.

I only wish that I had saved the old clutch, because it looked fine. I should've just re-used it so it wouldn't have been suspect in the event of a problem. If I go with new OE type $300 clutch, atleast the car won't be laid up on the lift all over again. Since I replaced the trans and clutch 2 months ago, this car has spent more time on the lift and in storage than being driven on the street. I'm just tired of dealing with down time. These kinds of things often happen when you deal with the aftermarket. And it rarely fails. Been there before.
 
#85 ·
Ask around the forums. Maybe somebody has a used LS7 or stock clutch unit laying around that you can throw in there for the time being.

As long as you don't get on it, the clutch will hold while you send the twin back to Hendrix for inspection.

I'd still have my LS7 laying around if someone didn't decide to clean the shed and leave it outside in the rain. :banghead:
 
#86 ·
I'll tell you what, everyone says that stock clutches "won't hold the power" but after installing the TVS1900 supercharger on my car at around the 10,000 mile mark, and driving the snot out of it (no track runs, but beating it hard every day on the street with drag radial tires) for a good 18,000 miles, the stock clutch looked great when it was removed back in November, and it wasn't showing any signs of slipping either.

I understand what you mean about "as long as you don't get on it" if I install a used clutch that's very worn, but I think the stock clutches will hold up pretty well on the street (atleast up to 500FWHP/450RWHP levels like I am at with my car)as long as you stick to street driving. maybe dragstrip runs are another story.
 
#88 ·
Hmmm....look at this here....

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6140912&postcount=22

it seems to me that it's common for these twin disc aftermarket clutches to make some weird noises. I think I'm going back to an ordrinary OE type single disc replacement clutch. My old one looked good after 28K with barely any sings of waer on the disc surfaces, and 18K of those miles were at about 110 HP above the factory level due to the Maggie TVS1900.

I'll never take this car to the track, and most of these aftermarket parts I've used are proving to be a big hassle. Live and learn.
 
#89 ·
If a twin would hold my power I'd buy it from you since my last streetslayer twin was perfect except I out grew the HP rating. It's now in a C6Z06 pushing 600 whp without issue. Since you did not send it back for inspection we will never know for sure. Hope whatever piece you go with next is trouble free.
 
#91 ·
. Since you did not send it back for inspection we will never know for sure. .
If I install another clutch in the car without replacing anything else, and the noise is no longer present, then it would be the present clutch making the noise.

I can't afford to have this car laid up any more. Like I've previously explained, it's my daily driver.
 
#92 ·
Yes but I'm not sure why the apprehension sending it back to the manufacture for inspection. They built it, and they know the build tolerances concerning how it was built. I would never trust a third party because all they can do is see if its balanced. Moot point anyways I hope your single eliminates your issue.
 
#93 ·
This is just crazy. Frustrating beyond explanation I'm sure.

After my rebuild, I fired my car up for the first time... After 30 seconds I noticed this awful rattle coming from the oil pan area. I thought my motor was about to pop. It was pretty loud. Sounded like something rattling around in the bell housing or oil pan. I almost panicked.

When under the car, I was looking for anything that could generate a rattle. When I grabbed the exhaust pipe, holding it firm killed the sound. It ended up being the flange between the cat back and mid-pipes. The gasket was bad and there was a little distortion of the flange surface of my mid-pipes.

When there are sounds from things vibrating, they can be very deceptive and resonate in other areas of the car. The odd thing about your sound is that it is rpm specific, so it sounds like it is some kind of harmonic from something rattling. If it was a bearing issue or something in the trans, it seems the sound would be detectable at all rpms and increase with speed/rpm. Also, when the clutch is engaged and locked up, all the parts are held firmly together so it doesn't make sense that the clutch would make any noise.
 
#94 ·
Tick Performnce just put a Monster Level 1 Twin Disc in my GTO and I have had Zero issues so far...1st gear chattered a bit at first but I only have about 150 miles or so on it and its almost gone now...all the other gears were quiet...4th chattered a bit if i got into the throttle from around 1500rpm but even that is all but gone...
Great customer service from what ive experienced too...
sorry for all you troubles man i hope you get it sorted out soon
 
#95 · (Edited)
Thanks for tyring to help me out guys with all of your input. I'll see if the guy I know with the lift will be willing to try and help me diagnose the noise from underneath the car while it's running. I mentioned it to him a few months ago, and he didn't sound too keen on the idea. Maybe he viewed it as a safety issue. I don't know. But to recreate the noise with the car on the lift, one of us would have to be inside the car to step on the gas with the transmission in gear, and while the other one is underneath the car. And I don't even know if it will make the noise without the resistence of the vehicle weight being on the drive wheels.

Futhermore, the noise only occurs between 1700 and 2100 RPM so without the vehicle weight on the drive wheels, any throttle input will push the engine through that small RPM range pretty quick, and therefore wouldn't allow the person inderneath the car very much time to attempt to diagnose the cause of the noise.

But just to clarify something here...this is NOT clutch chatter. the clutch does NOT chatter at all, and never did from the start. This is a loud vibration type of noise. It doesn't chatter at all. it's because I did not want chatter that I decided against any monster clutches. I've communicated with a number of monster clutch customers, and all of them told me that they had atleast some degree of chatter with their monster clutches. That turned me off to them.

I'm hesitant to send the the clutch back to the manufacture, because I don't want to wait for the turn around time, and I cannot help but think that no matter what, they're going to deny any issues being wrong with their product. If I do send it back though, it will be after I install an OE type replacement single disc clutch. And then I'll try to sell this twin disc deal, but I would let the prospective buyers know of the noise associated with it in the event that the installation of the new OE replacement clutch stops the noise.
 
#96 ·
Have you tried to re-create this sound when parked?
 
#97 · (Edited)
Yes I have. It won't make the noise in nuetral nor in any gear with the clutch pedal in. It doesn't do it while coasting in gear either. it ony does it during throttle input while in gear, and it doesn't even have to be hard throttle input either. It does it between 1700 and 2100 RPM with ANY throttle input, be it light or heavy. That's why I doubt it's related to the exhaust because I would think that if it was the exhaust, then it would also do it in nuetral.
 
#98 ·
I don't know why you will not call or have the clutch looked at since I've offered to help you several times.the length that youve been posting on this thread we could have had it checked, replaced if something happen to it and sent back to you at least twice .once u install the tranny again with another clutch and hopefully don't have any issues would it be the clutch or is the trany just right this time?.I never suggested our twin to you nor sold it to you but I have offered to help you.ups could have dropped it and u indeed have a clutch related issue I can assure u its not balance, it doesn't get better as you raise rpms it would get worse if it was out of balance.since you looked on camaro 5 I would assume you found review after review of happy Street Slayer customers that are vibration free.980 521 0722
 
#100 · (Edited)
I don't know why you will not call or have the clutch looked at since I've offered to help you several times.the length that youve been posting on this thread we could have had it checked, replaced if something happen to it and sent back to you at least twice .once u install the tranny again with another clutch and hopefully don't have any issues would it be the clutch or is the trany just right this time?.I never suggested our twin to you nor sold it to you but I have offered to help you.ups could have dropped it
It isn't that easy. Like I said, this is my daily driver, and I have to rely on this car for transportation. For the time that the new trans was out being shipped to the trans vendor, i had the old trans in the car in order to have transportation (this is what I get for relying on aftermarket parts in a daily driver). Whether or not it's the clutch, or some other hi-perf part I bought, I can't just ship the part out and wait for the turn around time without a car(again, this is what I get for modifying a daily driver. I got away with it back in 2006 with another daily driver, and I never ran into a problem with that car like this. So I guess I was lucky back then. This time, I'm not so lucky).

I have to save my pennies for another OE replacement clutch since I didn't save the one that was removed (I wish that I did, because it looked fine). Then, and only then will I put the car back on the lift to remove the street slayer clutch to send it back to you or to the vendor I bought it from which is clear on the other side of the country. being without the car for 2 days is one thing, but I can't be without it for a week or two).

The car is making this noise with both the old and the new trans, so it isn't a transmission problem. that's all I know at this point. But other users of various twin disc clutches have written to me saying that they have the same sound going on between 1500 and 2000 RPM as I'm having ever since they've installed their new clutches. So this is either a very big coincidence or there's something going on with many of these aftermarket twin disc clutches that isn't right. In time, I'll uncover this mystery, but it's going to be in my time.What you might be overlooking is that every time I get this car on the lift to attempt to diagnose the problem, it costs me money. It isn't for free. And unfortunately, I don't have an unlimited supply of funds for throwing at this issue.The expensive clutch and expensive trans I bought for this car drained me!!! And just trying to figure this problem out has cost me a lot of money during the past two months since I've installed these new parts.Thanks for your offer. It's one thing for you to tell me here to just yank the new clutch out and send it off, but that's easy for you to say. It's going to cost me money to do that, so it isn't that simple.When I raise the funds to do it, then I'll do what you've suggested.

The motor moves around a lot more under load not nuetral
OK, good point. But it still isn't going to be easy trying to find the noise or to recreate it on the lift when the engine cannot be completely loaded like it is when the vehicle is being driven on the street. I think that at this point, it's actually more realistic in the way of diagnostics to buy a cheap clutch and throw it in there to see if the noise is eliminated since I've tried other things already to no avail. Unfortunately, this is an expensive way to diagnose a problem. But unless someone has figured out a way to hang underneath the floorboards with a tube to their ear or a stethascope while the vehicle is being driven on the street, then I might not have a choice. I'm not going to have the car laid up for a week or two while waiting on a vendor to "test" the part out when it likely wasn't even manufactured at their location anyway, and therefore might take a while for any accurate "test" to take place. At least not until I obtain another clutch that I can use in the car while I'm waiting on that process to commence.Sorry, but I need my car.

I purchased this car for transportation, and then began modifying it with these go-fast aftermarket parts to kind of take a break from my legitimate "fun" car, (which happens to be an 800 HP 1970 Chevelle project that I've owned and been engaged with for several years). But doing so has really bitten me in the behind, and I'm beginning to regret it. The only aftermarket part that I'm sure of that has been mostly trouble-free is the Magnuson supercharger that I installed 18 months ago. Maybe I should've just stuck to working on my 70 Chevelle ( a real muscle car)... But I digress....
 
#101 ·
I am pretty sure I still have my stock clutch with only 25k miles on it sittin in the garage. If you want it I will ship it to you to use to eliminate the clutch. I know it's nothing fancy but should do the trick if you dont beat on it. I never had any issues with slippage and kept it as a backup in case I needed it. PM me if you want it free of charge just pay for shipping
 
#102 ·
Wow! That's really cool!! I appreciate that. PM sent. Thanks!!!! BTW, would this be the clutch disc itself only? Or would that include the stock pressure plate as well?
 
#105 ·
But unless someone has figured out a way to hang underneath the floorboards with a tube to their ear or a stethascope while the vehicle is being driven on the street, then I might not have a choice.
http://www.tooltopia.com/steelman-6600.aspx

Great tool.

Engine and trans move together under load, and the clutch is between them. So they should all move together. You may have a heat shield or contact issue, but really, it sounds to me like the issue is with the clutch, probably the pressure plate or TOB. Whether the issue is installer error or defect, I cannot say as I have not looked at the car.
 
#106 ·
I have a Hendrix Twin disk and it's silent no noises at all.



Can I have a T-shirt too :)
 
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