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Old 11-13-2012, 11:42 AM   #31
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Very nice car wbt. With the massive factory heads and what you can do through tuning its almost like having a heads/cam car right off the showroom floor
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:50 AM   #32
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Very nice car wbt. With the massive factory heads and what you can do through tuning its almost like having a heads/cam car right off the showroom floor

Thanks!

You hit the nail on the head so to speak. These are probably the best production heads Ford has produced. Combine that with VCT and it makes for a great combination especially when the tune is spot on.

A few aftermarket tuners offer a lope idle tune. Sounds just like a cammed car along with the issues of having a cammed car.

Personally I prefer a nice smooth idle. Makes for a much better sleeper.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:51 AM   #33
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Anyone else notice the Camaro at the beginning of the clip lifting the front wheels off the ground?
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:04 PM   #34
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Anyone else notice the Camaro at the beginning of the clip lifting the front wheels off the ground?

Was gonna say, nobody commented on that haha. But none the less. Credit when credit is due.
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:57 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by MONSTRGOAT...View Post
Anyone else notice the Camaro at the beginning of the clip lifting the front wheels off the ground?

Ya mean this isnt a mustang forum?..lol
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:06 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by wbt...View Post
I have no idea as it has never been on a dyno. The VCT and timing tables were developed on a friends car who tunes it. The rest of the tune refinement comes from dataloging on the street to ball park shift points, MAF curves, etc. with final refinement at the track. These cars come with widebands from the factory so it simplifies the process and reduces the need for a dyno.



I am using a Circle D 5C. https://www.circledspecialties.com/p...stage-iii.aspx

i'm sure running e85 makes a measurable difference in power output.
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:19 PM   #37
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i'm sure running e85 makes a measurable difference in power output.

Not on a N/A application. 5-7 HP. I use it for a couple of reasons:

1. Burns cleaner.
2. Cheap.
3. Burns cooler.

It is a PITA if you don't run the car often as it absorbs moisture. I have had to drain the fuel several times because of absorption. You have to keep a close eye on water grains when using it.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:10 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by wbt...View Post
Not on a N/A application. 5-7 HP. I use it for a couple of reasons:

1. Burns cleaner.
2. Cheap.
3. Burns cooler.

It is a PITA if you don't run the car often as it absorbs moisture. I have had to drain the fuel several times because of absorption. You have to keep a close eye on water grains when using it.

Gets worse fuel mileage..need bigger injectors and bigger pump....but doesnt help power??
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:37 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by sjones99...View Post
Gets worse fuel mileage..need bigger injectors and bigger pump....but doesnt help power??

Only thing needed on a N/A application on these cars are larger injectors. A full set of 47# injectors can be had for $250 new.

Yes fuel mileage is reduced.

I am in a location that reaches over 100* in the Summer. Running e85 provides a good safety net under extreme conditions.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:48 PM   #40
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E85 will produce more power due to advanced timing due to higher octane..only real real reason to run it..
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:56 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by sjones99...View Post
E85 will produce more power due to advanced timing due to higher octane..only real real reason to run it..

The margins are very small on an N/A application. The hassle of using it negates the small gains so you have to look at the other available benefits.

I could leave the stock injectors in place and run unleaded race gas if I was only looking at achieving marginal gains. The other benefits are what sold me on using it.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:19 PM   #42
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Good times man...can't knock a guy with proof. I know those mustangs are no joke, I've just personally never seen any as fast as yours around here. Last visit to the track there was one on slicks/skinnies with intake/catback going 12.50s. Not sure what his issue was, but I guess driver/setup makes a huge difference.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:37 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbt...View Post
Not on a N/A application. 5-7 HP. I use it for a couple of reasons:

1. Burns cleaner.
2. Cheap.
3. Burns cooler.

It is a PITA if you don't run the car often as it absorbs moisture. I have had to drain the fuel several times because of absorption. You have to keep a close eye on water grains when using it.

so you can definately run your sort of times on pump gas then.

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"pypes full exhaust" includes long tubes, i am assuming?

you are running similar times as the revolution mustang did, with the exception they had some mild headwork done (IIRC).

not trying to "debunk" you by asking questions, btw. i think you're accomplishment is very impressive.

damnit i need to stop fiddling around and pick up one of these cars.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:15 AM   #44
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I just hate their not making the 302 for the newer model coming out.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:28 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by jpvulpes...View Post
so you can definately run your sort of times on pump gas then.

I think that is a real possibility.

Quote:

"pypes full exhaust" includes long tubes, i am assuming?

Yes.

Quote:
you are running similar times as the revolution mustang did, with the exception they had some mild headwork done (IIRC).

...and cams with the Boss valvetrain. They are about 120#'s heavier than what I run at. I would be interested to see what type of air conditions they ran their times in. I haven't seen a date/time on their posted timeslip. We were running in crappy air all weekend.

Quote:
not trying to "debunk" you by asking questions, btw. i think you're accomplishment is very impressive.

damnit i need to stop fiddling around and pick up one of these cars.

Not at all and thank you. I am happy to answer any questions and don't mind elaborating when asked.

Last edited by wbt; 11-14-2012 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:31 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by kebler2005...View Post
I just hate their not making the 302 for the newer model coming out.

The 6th gen. Mustang will have the same 5.0 Coyote motor. They will also offer a 4 cyl. Ecoboost engine. Not sure on the 6 cyl. yet.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:32 AM   #47
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Wow. Thanks for all the info.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:53 AM   #48
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I saw a '12 GT at the track trap 117mph with just a tune and off road x pipe. Near 0' DA...
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:13 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by 05GOATLS2...View Post
I saw a '12 GT at the track trap 117mph with just a tune and off road x pipe. Near 0' DA...

Absolutely. I took my car to the track last January, 500 miles on the OD, with a tune, tires/wheels, and small weight reduction like removing the passenger seat and spare tire and ran 11.88@119. Rest of the car was bone stock. It trapped 120 on the same night. DA was -1,000'.

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Old 11-14-2012, 08:15 PM   #50
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Bolt on car is defined as any car with no internal engine modifications. So any weight reduction, drag suspension car still qualifies.

So a 150 shot of nitrous qualifies as a bolt on per your own definition. Shit Ive already blown the LS1 and LS2 bolt on records out of the water then!!! lol

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Old 11-14-2012, 08:26 PM   #51
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The car in question is mine.

Yes it is bolt-on only meaning N/A, stock long block, no power adders.

Running a 3.31 rear gear.

Raceweight is 3,500.

Fuel is pump e85.

10.94 pass was made in 1,800' DA.

It is not a race car. It carries registration, inspection and current insurance. It still has A/C, power everything, factory radio, etc...

It is legal by the NHRA/IHRA rules for cars running quicker than 11.49 meaning roll-bar, SFI equipment, etc...

Every pass made that day was a 10 sec. run:


I am happy to answer any other questions.

Impressive and congrads on running 10s!
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:29 AM   #52
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Sra helps the 5.0 a lot in a drag set up. There's tons of poor gto guys with way more power then this guy but can't break 11.5 lol. Damn our irs. Would be fun to see a 10 second mustang get rocked by a 12 second cammed gto from a roll though since traction wouldn't be an issue lol.

Reminds me of all the races I would win from a roll in my supercharged civic but have no chance from a dig cuz of fwd traction.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:25 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikew...View Post
Sra helps the 5.0 a lot in a drag set up. There's tons of poor gto guys with way more power then this guy but can't break 11.5 lol. Damn our irs. Would be fun to see a 10 second mustang get rocked by a 12 second cammed gto from a roll though since traction wouldn't be an issue lol.

Reminds me of all the races I would win from a roll in my supercharged civic but have no chance from a dig cuz of fwd traction.

There are cammed gto's trapping 125?

More like head/cam gto.

His 60 foot wasnt super amazing... 1.5x. Auto GTO's with a good setup can cut that.

I would bet that his RWHP isnt dramatically high... 450-475 tops.

The thing is, i think these cars are an amazing overall package. I would think everything from the engine's power curve, trans gearing, efficient driveline, and a great suspension setup work together perfectly to make that thing hustle the way it does.

FAR superior to our setup, regardless of the SRA.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:20 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpin' Yota...View Post
So a 150 shot of nitrous qualifies as a bolt on per your own definition. Shit Ive already blown the LS1 and LS2 bolt on records out of the water then!!! lol


Nitrous is obviously a power adder and does not qualify.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:45 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by mikew...View Post
... Damn our irs. .

I'm not saying an IRS wouldn't be a better setup for our cars but people have been saying that since before I was here. How far down the ET list posted here do you have to look to find a SRA setup?

Without looking I'm going to guess #4 with 9 of the top 10 being IRS.

When looking for excuses, the IRS seems to be as good a candidate as any, but the data collected in this section doesn't back it up. Check out how many cars have done 1.3x 60's with an IRS.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:52 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpvulpes...View Post
There are cammed gto's trapping 125?

More like head/cam gto.

His 60 foot wasnt super amazing... 1.5x. Auto GTO's with a good setup can cut that.

I would bet that his RWHP isnt dramatically high... 430-440 tops.
The thing is, i think these cars are an amazing overall package. I would think everything from the engine's power curve, trans gearing, efficient driveline, and a great suspension setup work together perfectly to make that thing hustle the way it does.

FAR superior to our setup, regardless of the SRA.

Fixed. The Mustangs tend to do more with less. Bolt ons and tune minus Boss mani you run into 420-ish hp range. Add the Boss manifold and you jump into the higher power range of cammed LS2's.

Mustangs are just better platforms out of the box to run the quarter mile with.


As far as IRS goes, how many of those guys in the top ten running IRS are doing so without doing a little upgrading to the suspension back there? I would doubt they are doing it on the stock IRS setup sans some beefing up.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:21 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by housewolf...View Post
I'm not saying an IRS wouldn't be a better setup for our cars but people have been saying that since before I was here. How far down the ET list posted here do you have to look to find a SRA setup?

Without looking I'm going to guess #4 with 9 of the top 10 being IRS.

When looking for excuses, the IRS seems to be as good a candidate as any, but the data collected in this section doesn't back it up. Check out how many cars have done 1.3x 60's with an IRS.

You've certainly made your mark as have the others that have been successful with the IRA setups. Your assessment is fair but does not consider the talent and effort that has gone into those high performing IRS systems. With the Mustang SRA's it appears that they are getting those results right out of the box with drivers who have only average or less experience. I am a poor driver and have been unable to achieve anything nearly as respectable as the rest of you guys with the IRS. I make a pass in a friend's 5.0 with less than 100 miles on the clock and cut low 1.6 60 foot times and that is after not making a pass down the track in 4 years. The counter argument then would be what would those of you that are getting good success with the IRS be doing with SRA's and how much better would you be doing?

I have to agree with Ninjabum on the Mustangs being a flat out better platform from the gitgo for American style driving meaning the 1/4 mile. As long as GM feels like it has to copy BMW we will remain just that, a cheap copy. For every area that Ford continues to fail in, they at least get that. Just an opinion.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:27 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaBum...View Post
As far as IRS goes, how many of those guys in the top ten running IRS are doing so without doing a little upgrading to the suspension back there? I would doubt they are doing it on the stock IRS setup sans some beefing up.

#2 on the 60' list is Monsta, 1.349. IIRC; he was on a completely stock suspension & rear end .

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrp...View Post
The counter argument then would be what would those of you that are getting good success with the IRS be doing with SRA's and how much better would you be doing?

I have to agree with Ninjabum on the Mustangs being a flat out better platform from the gitgo for American style driving meaning the 1/4 mile. As long as GM feels like it has to copy BMW we will remain just that, a cheap copy. For every area that Ford continues to fail in, they at least get that. Just an opinion.

The list of platforms for a better drag car than the GTO is a long one. I'm just saying I don't believe the IRS (or stock suspension for that matter) is the handicap we were led to believe it was in the "early days". However, I do believe a properly set up SRA would be a great improvement.

What we haven't seen (to my knowledge) is an all out purpose built drag car at or below ~3K#s keep the IRS. Who would be so foolish

If I had to choose between the two, I would rather drop ~600#s and keep the IRS.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:49 PM   #59
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Fixed. The Mustangs tend to do more with less. Bolt ons and tune minus Boss mani you run into 420-ish hp range. Add the Boss manifold and you jump into the higher power range of cammed LS2's.

Mustangs are just better platforms out of the box to run the quarter mile with.


As far as IRS goes, how many of those guys in the top ten running IRS are doing so without doing a little upgrading to the suspension back there?

I have read higher numbers for i/h/e/tune/boss (450+) and was factoring in the single digit gain of the e85 in there somewhere, but i guess it depends on the dyno and conditions. This guy also has a little suspension tweaking himself.

Part strength aside, people have been able to accomplish amazing things with the lousy gto setup, but regardless it will never be as good as a properly done sra setup--definitely inferior to the capabilities of the 5.0 stang.

Not sure if you misunderstood or not. I think we're making a similar point here, regardless of some details needing correction.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:47 PM   #60
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What we haven't seen (to my knowledge) is an all out purpose built drag car at or below ~3K#s keep the IRS. Who would be so foolish

This is what bugs me about them. Watch the wheel move forward and pinch inward. This is a limitation. I wouldn't even argue that in general the IRS is a bad idea, just our version of it.


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