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Old 11-24-2012, 06:32 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purplenurple...View Post
They both had Pedders eccentrics. The damage was due to the design of the that particular bushing. There have been Aussies running around with urethane bushings for much longer than anyone in the US.

Porn actresses probably stay tighter longer than a pedder's eccentric. But yes, all the best-documented breakages did have pedder's eccentrics.
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:23 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnie the Goat...View Post
Porn actresses probably stay tighter longer than a pedder's eccentric. But yes, all the best-documented breakages did have pedder's eccentrics.

I agree with you both......on the other hand I have been running (4)
pedders eccentrics since day one. (only about 15,000 miles though.
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:47 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnum-gto...View Post
I agree with you both......on the other hand I have been running (4)
pedders eccentrics since day one. (only about 15,000 miles though.

Same story on my 6 year old B&M shifter that remains un-broken: 11k miles.
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Old 11-24-2012, 08:40 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnum-gto...View Post
Try that with a straight rod that fits the bushing holes snugly.
The mis-alignment is actually almost 3/8".
If you want to see the effect of this mis-alignment, install a LCA with
snug fitting bolts.

Once the LCA is mounted, swing it full travel in both directions.
Notice how the arm starts to bind at each end of the travel.

It becomes pretty obvious why we hear of cracked cradle LCA mounting points.

I wish someone could explain/justify that design.

We are about to finish a new design that will be fully adjustable for
camber and toe, eliminate the binding and oh.......almost forgot......
it will include adjustable tire plant capability for improved 60' times.

Interested in this new design. One off or is it going to be produced?
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:40 AM   #65
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Old 11-24-2012, 02:04 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by 05raptorle...View Post
Interested in this new design. One off or is it going to be produced?

It will depend on testing.
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Old 11-24-2012, 03:55 PM   #67
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I decided to order superpro quad eccentrics. I plan to keep my Hendricks toe links.


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Old 11-24-2012, 03:59 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpvulpes...View Post
I was thinking this myself, but am still concerned about dynamic camber changes. If i understand correctly, simply doing one eccentric on each side, although adjusting camber, won't change the axis about which the control arm pivots. So you will still get a positive camber increase when the rear squats.

I think i will do the eccentric bushings to set camber at 0, keep my GForce toe links, and set up the springs/shocks to minimize squat so dynamic camber changes won't be much of a problem.

Hopefully it works at the track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpvulpes...View Post
Well upon further reading, i've discovered what a bad idea this is.

Guess it's quad eccentrics or nothing...


Why is that a bad idea?
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:07 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom's2005gto...View Post
I decided to order superpro quad eccentrics. I plan to keep my Hendricks toe links.


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Cancel your order and call me.I dont have time to get into it right now but we have a better way.Also there is no way i would take off the toe links with a stock arm,way to much flex for drag racing
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:13 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom's2005gto...View Post
I decided to order superpro quad eccentrics. I plan to keep my Hendricks toe links.


Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com App

Good way to bend or snap an ear off your crossmember. Poly bushings don't have enough flex to get away with using a toe-link.
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:15 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnie the Goat...View Post
Same story on my 6 year old B&M shifter that remains un-broken: 11k miles.

4 years 50K on mine with many track passes. Not all original I did some customizing to tune it like I like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnum-gto...View Post
Try that with a straight rod that fits the bushing holes snugly.
The mis-alignment is actually almost 3/8".
If you want to see the effect of this mis-alignment, install a LCA with
snug fitting bolts.

Once the LCA is mounted, swing it full travel in both directions.
Notice how the arm starts to bind at each end of the travel.

It becomes pretty obvious why we hear of cracked cradle LCA mounting points.

I wish someone could explain/justify that design.

We are about to finish a new design that will be fully adjustable for
camber and toe, eliminate the binding and oh.......almost forgot......
it will include adjustable tire plant capability for improved 60' times.

The bolt hole is 3/8 that extension fits extremely snug through the hole, but have to flex the tip exactly 1/8 of a inch to fit into the inside hole. Really interested on your new design, and price I'll be looking for rear control arms soon. Currently that cradle is a spare to build my rear end from off the car. Doing it that way because I'm not happy with the options we have available to us. I've been scoping parts from G8's Catera's, Camaro, and even ZL1 camaro at SEMA trying to find a better hub assembly to start from since the issue with the rear arms to me is not much can be built with the crappy 1 piece hub and arm design.
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:18 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Non-Sponsor-Engineering...View Post
Cancel your order and call me.I dont have time to get into it right now but we have a better way.Also there is no way i would take off the toe links with a stock arm,way to much flex for drag racing

you will see the car soon! I'm moving it from the garage to the trailer to store it for a few weeks, then I plan to bring it that way. The car has got to be made right soon, or it's getting parted out. I'm tired of it being in the way.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:00 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by tom's2005gto...View Post
you will see the car soon! I'm moving it from the garage to the trailer to store it for a few weeks, then I plan to bring it that way. The car has got to be made right soon, or it's getting parted out. I'm tired of it being in the way.

Get it down here! when you get it back youll be in love all over again LOL!
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:03 AM   #74
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Good way to bend or snap an ear off your crossmember. Poly bushings don't have enough flex to get away with using a toe-link.

I would disagree for most drivers it works great.Maybe,maybe, for your driving it would be better with a different combo.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:29 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Shift_GRIND...View Post
Why is that a bad idea?

I've read some people have had binding issues even when just using the eccentric outer bushing.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:47 AM   #76
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Had the alignment guy break the head off my Pedders eccentric on the drivers side, after installing stronger toe links. I seen it with my own eyes, camber bolt would never adjust. Come to find out, you have tweak the toe and camber back and forth, until the desired alignment is in place. I determined this after we adjusted the drivers side, rear toe and the camber adjustment relieved itself. Right now Im with out a bolt head on the eccentric, and dreading the R/R. JB weld is my friend right now. Im of course am going with a one bolt through bushing design. Two bolt designs can go smurf themselves.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:01 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Non-Sponsor-Engineering...View Post
I would disagree for most drivers it works great.Maybe,maybe, for your driving it would be better with a different combo.

I bent the ears on my crossmember while just having the stock toe-links installed with poly bushings. If I had a stronger link I would have snapped something and had major carnage.

Having the toe-links installed will make the eccentrics go from taking like 5ft-lbs of force to turn to 200ft-lbs of force. That ammount of binding is dangerous.
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:22 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by lautinjr...View Post
I've been scoping parts from G8's Catera's, Camaro, and even ZL1 camaro at SEMA trying to find a better hub assembly to start from since the issue with the rear arms to me is not much can be built with the crappy 1 piece hub and arm design.

I breifly pondered the camaro's 4.5 link design and a swap-over. Even if it fit under there with some fabbing, i would imagine that setup is a lot heavier than what we've got going on. More weight and complexity is exactly what I don't want.

I just want the tires to remain square on the pavement and dig into it during a hard launch. cornering ability can be a concession, as long as the car remains more than safe to drive around the street and highways and retains enough handling ability that i can use it as a DD if i were to choose to (although i really won't ever use it for that.) And by that, i mean i should be able to do an emergancy lane change or other such maneuver without killing myself. I don't need to hang around a curve with a BRZ or some crap, i don't care about that with this car.

anyhow, a simple set of mods that would ensure maximum wheel geometry control during launch and straight line acceleration would be best for quite a few owners, as that's all they really do with the GTO is drag race.

Most effective way to do this is with an SRA swap, but for the fabbing and expense, I (and most others) would be better off going with a different car. That, and I have a bit of personal pride invested here. I don't want to concede to some of these old timers that i personally know and have them shaking their finger telling me "i told you so." no thanks.

if i can't find a simple, cost effective way to get this rear suspension to work the way i want it, i may have to just swap to an auto trans to give me enough "cush" to hide the rear suspension issues that are so prevelant when a manual trans GTO tries to get out from a dig. smurf it.

Last edited by dreadpirateroberts; 11-25-2012 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:27 PM   #79
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I have been running energy bushings at the inner position and one bolt design eccentrics at the outer position on stock toe link bars for about 2.5 years now. I was only able to remove about one degree of negative camber on each side. I'm still at almost negative 2 on each side. I'm on 05/06 axles.
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:58 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by slammin86...View Post
I have been running energy bushings at the inner position and one bolt design eccentrics at the outer position on stock toe link bars for about 2.5 years now. I was only able to remove about one degree of negative camber on each side. I'm still at almost negative 2 on each side. I'm on 05/06 axles.

Yikes.
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Old 11-25-2012, 01:02 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by slammin86...View Post
I have been running energy bushings at the inner position and one bolt design eccentrics at the outer position on stock toe link bars for about 2.5 years now. I was only able to remove about one degree of negative camber on each side. I'm still at almost negative 2 on each side. I'm on 05/06 axles.

Are you lowered or at stock height?
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Old 11-25-2012, 01:47 PM   #82
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Are you lowered or at stock height?

I'm low as fak guy.
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Old 11-25-2012, 01:58 PM   #83
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I'm low as fak guy.

Jank.
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Old 11-25-2012, 02:10 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by jpvulpes...View Post
I breifly pondered the camaro's 4.5 link design and a swap-over. Even if it fit under there with some fabbing, i would imagine that setup is a lot heavier than what we've got going on. More weight and complexity is exactly what I don't want.

I just want the tires to remain square on the pavement and dig into it during a hard launch. cornering ability can be a concession, as long as the car remains more than safe to drive around the street and highways and retains enough handling ability that i can use it as a DD if i were to choose to (although i really won't ever use it for that.) And by that, i mean i should be able to do an emergancy lane change or other such maneuver without killing myself. I don't need to hang around a curve with a BRZ or some crap, i don't care about that with this car.

anyhow, a simple set of mods that would ensure maximum wheel geometry control during launch and straight line acceleration would be best for quite a few owners, as that's all they really do with the GTO is drag race.

Most effective way to do this is with an SRA swap, but for the fabbing and expense, I (and most others) would be better off going with a different car. That, and I have a bit of personal pride invested here. I don't want to concede to some of these old timers that i personally know and have them shaking their finger telling me "i told you so." no thanks.

if i can't find a simple, cost effective way to get this rear suspension to work the way i want it, i may have to just swap to an auto trans to give me enough "cush" to hide the rear suspension issues that are so prevelant when a manual trans GTO tries to get out from a dig.we smurf it.

we have helped customers get low 1.4 sixtys we can help u as well .give me a call anytime
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Old 11-25-2012, 03:01 PM   #85
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We didnt mess with the eccentric bushings on our shop car, we just fabricated new inner control arm mounts and moved the inner mounts up about an inch to get zero camber, this lowered the rear about 2 inches with our coilover kit.
We also installed a set of our solid aluminum cradle mounts and a few other tricks.
We now have the car dialed in and pull 1.39 to 1.40 60 ft times on the motor and mid 1.3x 60 ft times on the bottle with ease.
The car is very consistent off the line now as well, give us a call if we can help.

We have Nebo's car in our shop right now, he will be getting the fabbed control arm mounts and solid cradle mounts like we did on our shop car.

Thanks
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Old 11-25-2012, 05:41 PM   #86
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sooo chris... when are you going to start selling modded cradles, ready to bolt in?

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Old 11-26-2012, 11:16 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpvulpes...View Post
I've read some people have had binding issues even when just using the eccentric outer bushing.

As I said earlier...the binding is built into the cradle.

Urethane magnifies the stresses.
Eccentric urethane can make it worse.
Double eccentrics can make it worse again.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:19 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnum-gto...View Post
As I said earlier...the binding is built into the cradle.

Urethane magnifies the stresses.
Eccentric urethane can make it worse.
Double eccentrics can make it worse again.

Seems that we just need a new cradle/CA setup.

Interested in what you will come up with...
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:27 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpvulpes...View Post
I breifly pondered the camaro's 4.5 link design and a swap-over. Even if it fit under there with some fabbing, i would imagine that setup is a lot heavier than what we've got going on. More weight and complexity is exactly what I don't want.

I just want the tires to remain square on the pavement and dig into it during a hard launch. cornering ability can be a concession, as long as the car remains more than safe to drive around the street and highways and retains enough handling ability that i can use it as a DD if i were to choose to (although i really won't ever use it for that.) And by that, i mean i should be able to do an emergancy lane change or other such maneuver without killing myself. I don't need to hang around a curve with a BRZ or some crap, i don't care about that with this car.

anyhow, a simple set of mods that would ensure maximum wheel geometry control during launch and straight line acceleration would be best for quite a few owners, as that's all they really do with the GTO is drag race.

Most effective way to do this is with an SRA swap, but for the fabbing and expense, I (and most others) would be better off going with a different car. That, and I have a bit of personal pride invested here. I don't want to concede to some of these old timers that i personally know and have them shaking their finger telling me "i told you so." no thanks.

if i can't find a simple, cost effective way to get this rear suspension to work the way i want it, i may have to just swap to an auto trans to give me enough "cush" to hide the rear suspension issues that are so prevelant when a manual trans GTO tries to get out from a dig. smurf it.

You are beginning to touch on the reasons we have built our cradle.
I don't like these old timers shakin' their finger at me either.

I am still waiting for someone to identify the reasoning for GM installing
the LCA bushings on seperate centerlines.....
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Old 11-26-2012, 07:16 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpvulpes...View Post
sooo chris... when are you going to start selling modded cradles, ready to bolt in?


We might start selling pre-fabed boxes that you can weld in on your own but for now we are just doing it when someone brings the car in.
We do however sell the solid cradle spacers.

Thanks
Chris
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