Coolant crossover build... - Page 2 - LS1GTO.com Forums

Vendors


Go Back   LS1GTO.com Forums > GTO Tech > LS1/LS2 Engine Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 01-23-2013, 03:10 PM   #31
Hugemoose2005
Registered User
 
Hugemoose2005's Avatar
 
2005 GTO Owner

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Bensalem, PA
Posts: 334


Offline
This is a good idea..... might need to be my next project.
__________________
2005 PBM M6 Red interior GTO
-CNC ported LS6 heads
-HPE-C cam
-SLP Under-drive pulley
-Stage 2 ported intake and TB
-Insulated Vararam
-Gforce stage 2 anti-hop axles
-ARH 1 7/8 Long tubes and high flow cats
-custom exhaust with x-pipe and 3" powersticks
-GMM race shifter
-Pedders street 1 bushings
-Monster stage 3 clutch and classic hardline
-3.91s, Diff technics diff, Gforce stubs
-370mm Lovells rear springs

455RWHP/411RWTQ
1/4 mile = embarrassing @ 116mph
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-23-2013, 03:44 PM   #32
sergo
Bamanana
 
sergo's Avatar
 
2005 GTO Owner

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ovilla redenbacher, tx
Posts: 8,581


Offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFSADRG...View Post
Found some pictures of my setup during the fabrication to give a better perspective.






nice job!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockingoat...View Post

this is the one from nitrous outlet that im going to use.

gonna have to look this one up.
__________________
Sasha - pretty big, very bright and damn loud. Heart by SNL, supported by Lovells, Monsterized and built by me.
All stock sheet metal.

  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2013, 03:52 PM   #33
svede1212
Growing up is an option
 
svede1212's Avatar
 
2004 GTO Owner

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 16,317
GVHJ4N
Premium Member


Offline
I'd like to hear a theory that actually makes sense as to why do this. The engine is tipped back, acceleration pushes water back, bubbles would go to the front. The purpose is to bleed out any potential little steam pocket that may form. It's not going to circulate any significant coolant nor keep #7 from popping a ring land that I can see. If you're making that much steam you have far worse problems. Theories?
__________________
.




"It's a well know fact that after you hit 400 HP you have to go with split dual exhaust like the LS2 GTOs. The '04s could get away
with single side because they were only 350 HP. With 400 HP and beyond the car wants to turn right at WOT from the thrust."
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2013, 04:09 PM   #34
CrAzYGOAT
nothing witty today
 
CrAzYGOAT's Avatar
 
2004 GTO Owner

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Upper Marlboro, MD
Posts: 1,261


Offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by svede1212...View Post
I'd like to hear a theory that actually makes sense as to why do this. The engine is tipped back, acceleration pushes water back, bubbles would go to the front. The purpose is to bleed out any potential little steam pocket that may form. It's not going to circulate any significant coolant nor keep #7 from popping a ring land that I can see. If you're making that much steam you have far worse problems. Theories?

well that's just it... #7 running hot, especially with a LSXr and not much info on why or how to remove it. (that i have seen) Also relying on the tipping back of your engine to shake out all the steam from back there seems a little... well not efficient. i say if it was designed like that from the get go... and it is something that has not been removed even to this day, then why not take advantage at increasing the longevity of your engine? And lastly the stock crossovers really don't do what they are ment to. If the vent to the rad. is sitting lower than the ports they are coming out of then the steam is just getting trapped in the corners of the heads... and this gets even words when you put in a LSXr because you have to bend the tube down just to fit the LSXr.

(not a LXSr but the same bending down)


your gansta lean back anit gonna shake all dem bubbles out dawg. It needs to rise higher than the ports which in turn is higher than the intake.

i am no engineer but it would seem to me that opening these things up and keeping your engine cooler is a good thing no?
__________________

STOLEN
2004 PBM LS1 M6
Kooks Headers & Street Screamers - Monster stage 1 with tick performance master
Hinson engine mounts - speed bleeder - ASP UD pulley - 3.91 w/eaton tru trac and Harrop cover - BP shifter
RAMJET otrcai - LSXr/102 Big Mouth - Billet Rails - custom coolant crossover
BC coilovers, 19" TSW Cadwells 45mm on f-245/35 r-285/35 - James Biz catch can
JB blacked out arrows and side badges - Mav man spolier and diffuser - Custom suede interior and trim
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2013, 04:19 PM   #35
LFSADRG
Need To Drive More
 
LFSADRG's Avatar
 
2005 GTO Owner

Join Date: May 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 1,136


Offline
Will the one from NO fit under a traditional LS intake? It might be for a raised intake like Edelbrocks and Holley HiRams.

From what I read about Kurt Urban's theory behind tying in the rear steam ports is the distribution block should be the highest point of the cooling system. That way all steam rises to the dist block. This is supposed to promote even cooling to the rear cylinders.

Here is a post that has some information about the vapor system working:

http://lsxnation.net/forum/showthrea...r-Vapor-System

Excerpts:
" I have my stock temp sensor in the stock location in the driver's side head, that will read 195 degrees consistantly. I also have an autometer gauge reading off the passenger side head which puts it over #8. Which will read 210-220, or more depending on traffic or if I hotlap it at the track."

"Brought #8 (my rear water temp sensor) right back down to 195 like the front stock sensor reads. I've tested it on the street in decent city/highway traffic and at the track."
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2013, 04:23 PM   #36
CrAzYGOAT
nothing witty today
 
CrAzYGOAT's Avatar
 
2004 GTO Owner

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Upper Marlboro, MD
Posts: 1,261


Offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFSADRG...View Post
Will the one from NO fit under a traditional LS intake? It might be for a raised intake like Edelbrocks and Holley HiRams.

yes it would need to be a high rise...






literally sat down one day and read this entire thread, it is everything you need to know and several builds.
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=439023

Last edited by CrAzYGOAT; 01-23-2013 at 04:32 PM.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2013, 06:30 PM   #37
svede1212
Growing up is an option
 
svede1212's Avatar
 
2004 GTO Owner

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 16,317
GVHJ4N
Premium Member


Offline
So that tiny tube as opposed to the passageways moves that much coolant when it was designed to move small amounts of vapor. OK.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2013, 06:38 PM   #38
CrAzYGOAT
nothing witty today
 
CrAzYGOAT's Avatar
 
2004 GTO Owner

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Upper Marlboro, MD
Posts: 1,261


Offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by svede1212...View Post
So that tiny tube as opposed to the passageways moves that much coolant when it was designed to move small amounts of vapor. OK.

not sure you used enough words here but i think what your telling me is that this is all magic BS hocus pocus right? and that tiny tubes are incapable of doing the said task of being a vent... regardless of what corner they are on?
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2013, 06:42 PM   #39
LFSADRG
Need To Drive More
 
LFSADRG's Avatar
 
2005 GTO Owner

Join Date: May 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 1,136


Offline
Yes. When I had to bleed the system from the distribution block coolant poured out like a sieve. I would like to add a T with a flare cap if I need to ever bleed the system again.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2013, 06:48 PM   #40
svede1212
Growing up is an option
 
svede1212's Avatar
 
2004 GTO Owner

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 16,317
GVHJ4N
Premium Member


Offline
No I think the tiny tubes can do a job of venting the small amounts of steam that can form. I just think in anything outside a circle track race car it's overkill and won't save a single engine. Won't hurt a thing otherwise.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2013, 06:54 PM   #41
CrAzYGOAT
nothing witty today
 
CrAzYGOAT's Avatar
 
2004 GTO Owner

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Upper Marlboro, MD
Posts: 1,261


Offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by svede1212...View Post
No I think the tiny tubes can do a job of venting the small amounts of steam that can form. I just think in anything outside a circle track race car it's overkill and won't save a single engine. Won't hurt a thing otherwise.

oh well in that case your probably right lol... minus the back side getting to hot and some have already tested this theory to work. i admitted it eariler, plus i think im addicted to billet
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2013, 07:01 PM   #42
svede1212
Growing up is an option
 
svede1212's Avatar
 
2004 GTO Owner

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 16,317
GVHJ4N
Premium Member


Offline
This was discussed a while back. One thing to remember is LS1s used to have the rear crossover and they still had the same #7 issue. Something to think about
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2013, 07:25 PM   #43
rockingoat
nitrous? yes please...
 
rockingoat's Avatar
 
2006 GTO Owner

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: byron illinois
Posts: 192
Premium Member


Offline
The way I look at it is I have a lot invested in my motor and any help I can get to keep it cooler is good in my book.
__________________
it was fun but the gto is for sale check it out in the for sale section
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2013, 07:35 PM   #44
Jaime Lannister
Registered User
 
Jaime Lannister's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Casterly Rock
Posts: 8,468


Offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by svede1212...View Post
This was discussed a while back. One thing to remember is LS1s used to have the rear crossover and they still had the same #7 issue. Something to think about

Apparently all it does is bleed air...

Marc@vettenuts has some of the old ls1 style ones I believe. You can just chisel off the bottom of the LS6 manifold then it clears and looks factory.
__________________
'99 FRC
No longer wanting to light the car on fire
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2013, 10:02 PM   #45
briancb1
:-(
 
briancb1's Avatar
 
2006 GTO Owner

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 906


Offline
Is there a serious issue someone is having or are we just bored and thinking of ways to spend more money?

The old LS1's had that style steam tube(97-99 I believe, pre LS6). Then in '00 they changed the block design and no longer have a coolant passage in the front on the deck closest to the radiator, forcing more fluid movement in the back of the cylinder head from the block.

If you saw two different block's you'd see what I'm taking about.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-24-2013, 04:00 AM   #46
CrAzYGOAT
nothing witty today
 
CrAzYGOAT's Avatar
 
2004 GTO Owner

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Upper Marlboro, MD
Posts: 1,261


Offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by svede1212...View Post
This was discussed a while back. One thing to remember is LS1s used to have the rear crossover and they still had the same #7 issue. Something to think about

except they still sat level if not lower than the ports they were venting... raising it up should help.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2013, 07:15 AM   #47
Detroit_Muscle
CogCogCogCog
 
Detroit_Muscle's Avatar
 
2006 GTO Owner

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 571


Offline
Just an FYI to anyone reading and wondering: I did this "mod" with my TVS2300 setup. Those Wegner / KUP adapters are very nice, however, too tall to clear the blower on the back of the heads once you put a fitting in them. I had to machined them down, then retap. I tied them together, T'd them, ran a single line to the front crossover and T'd again, back to the radiator. Looks factory and does the same job. Nice and clean.
__________________
2006 BOM GTO
10.91 @ 127mph
598 whp - TVS2300 / cammed / headers / MGW-P / McLeod RST / GFORCE1320
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2013, 05:40 PM   #48
rockingoat
nitrous? yes please...
 
rockingoat's Avatar
 
2006 GTO Owner

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: byron illinois
Posts: 192
Premium Member


Offline
got my crossover and intake installed tonight
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-04-2013, 03:22 PM   #49
CrAzYGOAT
nothing witty today
 
CrAzYGOAT's Avatar
 
2004 GTO Owner

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Upper Marlboro, MD
Posts: 1,261


Offline
almost there... kinda got caught up in the "while im in there" bug lol.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg MC3_3020 copy.jpg (73.9 KB, 851 views)
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-06-2013, 08:05 PM   #50
SyTyJedi
You want a shot at the title?
 
SyTyJedi's Avatar
 
2005 GTO Owner

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Valley Ranch, TX
Posts: 448


Offline
This is my solution, in various phases. I crossed over at the rear to the drivers side port and then towards the front and T'd into the stock rubber hose that connects to the radiator. The Wegner fittings are the best starting point at each head, unless you just want to tap the head and run fittings directly into the steam port. That helps in situations where you are limited with height.

I used Fragola -4 to hose barb fittings to fit around the FAST intake better. If you use a normal -4 90* fitting it will rub on the side of the FAST. The intake also takes up more room towards the rear so you have to point your fitting straight back towards the firewall. The braided hose would not make a turn that tight so I used some fuel hose since it would handle the pressure and temp.



Since I don't like guessing I used a clear hose so I could see exactly how the coolant would behave in this configuration.



Just after starting the engine the coolant began to flow up into the clear hose and towards the front of the engine. It took a few minutes to push all the air out of the hose, but once it did you could see it was definitely flowing from the rear of the engine to the front towards the radiator. I have a video of the startup that I could upload to YouTube if anyone was interested. It's easy to see the coolant bubbling up, but it's hard to see it flowing with the camera that I have. For the sake of clarification, since it's been mentioned or questioned several times - the coolant does flow towards the front of the car and flows quite a bit more than you would expect. It's funny that everyone calls them steam ports, because a ton of coolant flows through them.

After I verified the direction and amount of flow, I switched over to a black hose as the clear would have started to leak. It doesn't handle the heat cycles very well. I recently switched the rear crossover line to a premade braided line that I sourced since it would fit around the FAST intake.



I am currently working on replacing the rubber hose that runs to the front with hard line for a cleaner look. I had thought about adding some extra T fittings and trying to attach a temp probe to see exactly how hot the coolant is that is coming from the 'steam' ports in the heads.

Hope this helps!
__________________
Tyler
'05 GTO (QSM)
'92 Typhoon
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-06-2013, 10:31 PM   #51
mikew
Registered User
 
2006 GTO Owner

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: moorpark ca
Posts: 272


Offline
A lot of work and theory. If your really worried about it. Get a meth kit. Instant peace of mind for keeping the engine cool. And can be programed only to engage at a certain rpm for daily drivers who don't wanna use it till your on it.
__________________
iat relocate, vararam Cai, coated kooks LT's w/ catted mids, spintech 2.5 stainless catback, Fast 102 and ported TB, slp 25% underdrive pulley,Full lovells suspension + rr bushings, lovells rear diff insert, Rota p45's 18x8F 18x9.5R, dunlop star specs 235/275 staggered.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-07-2013, 06:52 AM   #52
Axe Man
Spirit of Detroit
 
Axe Man's Avatar
 
2006 GTO Owner

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Goodyear, AZ. - Because I like the tires.
Posts: 760


Offline
This is an interesting read, and it sounds as if this issue is more prevelant when you install an aftermarket intake. Does this issue exist with stock intakes? Is this more prone to occur in LS1's or LS2"s?
__________________
"Spirit Of Detroit"
1968 Retro style 06-M6 QSM 18 inch wheels.
Modified.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-07-2013, 08:06 AM   #53
Stoopalini
Premium Member
 
Stoopalini's Avatar
 
2005 GTO Owner

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Liberty Hill, Texas
Posts: 1,209
Premium Member


Offline
The LT-1s also used a crossover "steam tube" in the back, which tied to the front of the cooling system ... although there were still plenty of cyl #7 failures on those too.

My '96 Z28 popped the head gasket at Cyl 7, and my steam tube was working properly.

__________________
2005 - M6 - QSM / Black
100% Poly / Lou's SS / SLP Rear Sway
JBA Catted mids / Stolen Fox H Pipe

Cluster Programming Sheet

  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-07-2013, 11:04 AM   #54
MuhThugga
Poppycock
 
MuhThugga's Avatar
 
2004 GTO Owner

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hockessin, DE
Posts: 10,294


Offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoopalini...View Post
The LT-1s also used a crossover "steam tube" in the back, which tied to the front of the cooling system ... although there were still plenty of cyl #7 failures on those too.

My '96 Z28 popped the head gasket at Cyl 7, and my steam tube was working properly.


Yup. The LT1's crossover is located in the rear.

Might be feasible and more aesthetically pleasing to use an LT1 crossover in conjunction with the front crossover and run a T-connection with the rubber hoses.
__________________

PROJECT SILVERBACK IS COMPLETE!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVDCGTO...View Post
Squeezing another 50 rwhp out of one of those setups would be like trying to squeeze the sarcasm out of MuhThugga. . . . . . . . not gonna happen

Quote:
Originally Posted by 87LC2...View Post
A Prius is a vehicular dunce cap.

  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-27-2013, 04:48 PM   #55
redgto4u
Registered User
 
redgto4u's Avatar
 
2005 GTO Owner

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 530


Offline
Very nice. I'm going to do something similar. Bought the wegner water adapter fittings for the rear. Quick run to lowes for 2 45 degree NPT fittings, a Y adapter, T adapter, and some black fuel line will be my setup. I'm going to T in the same spot you did and use the Y in the back to tie the 2 rears together so I'm just running 1 line to the front. Piece of mind for under $40!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SyTyJedi...View Post
This is my solution, in various phases. I crossed over at the rear to the drivers side port and then towards the front and T'd into the stock rubber hose that connects to the radiator. The Wegner fittings are the best starting point at each head, unless you just want to tap the head and run fittings directly into the steam port. That helps in situations where you are limited with height.

I used Fragola -4 to hose barb fittings to fit around the FAST intake better. If you use a normal -4 90* fitting it will rub on the side of the FAST. The intake also takes up more room towards the rear so you have to point your fitting straight back towards the firewall. The braided hose would not make a turn that tight so I used some fuel hose since it would handle the pressure and temp.



Since I don't like guessing I used a clear hose so I could see exactly how the coolant would behave in this configuration.



Just after starting the engine the coolant began to flow up into the clear hose and towards the front of the engine. It took a few minutes to push all the air out of the hose, but once it did you could see it was definitely flowing from the rear of the engine to the front towards the radiator. I have a video of the startup that I could upload to YouTube if anyone was interested. It's easy to see the coolant bubbling up, but it's hard to see it flowing with the camera that I have. For the sake of clarification, since it's been mentioned or questioned several times - the coolant does flow towards the front of the car and flows quite a bit more than you would expect. It's funny that everyone calls them steam ports, because a ton of coolant flows through them.

After I verified the direction and amount of flow, I switched over to a black hose as the clear would have started to leak. It doesn't handle the heat cycles very well. I recently switched the rear crossover line to a premade braided line that I sourced since it would fit around the FAST intake.



I am currently working on replacing the rubber hose that runs to the front with hard line for a cleaner look. I had thought about adding some extra T fittings and trying to attach a temp probe to see exactly how hot the coolant is that is coming from the 'steam' ports in the heads.

Hope this helps!

__________________
TSP 418, DuSpeed, 102/102, TX Giant cam, AI 243 heads, Kooks 1 7/8, Kooks SSE, ATI UDP, Pedders drag springs/shocks, Gforce DS, FTI4000 and performabuilt2.

Last edited by redgto4u; 12-27-2013 at 05:14 PM.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-27-2013, 08:45 PM   #56
slimbobaggins
Let's roll
 
slimbobaggins's Avatar
 
2005 GTO Owner

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Va Beach
Posts: 3,115
Premium Member


Offline
Necromancer
__________________
757 GTO Owners Association of Tidewater

http://www.757goat.org/phpBB3/index.php


Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolAid...View Post
Shaking/vibrating/rattling more is actually a bonus to me. I enjoy the Parkinsons effect at a stop light while the car belches out fumes of unburnt fuel from its monster lopey overlap. To me, thats muscle car.

Mods: ARP hardware
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the LS1GTO.com Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:41 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2003-2008, LS1GTO.com
Site Banner Design 2005-2007, Cylosoft

LS1GTO.com is not affiliated with General Motors Corp.