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Old 11-08-2004, 05:32 PM   #1
Pedalofloudness
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Powerdyne supercharger

Supposedly C.A.P.A Performance has put together some kind of kit for th '04 GTO that is based on the Powerdyne unit. I am going to get some more info on this such as pricing and boost levels. I'm interested because it seems like it would be a very easy unit to install with no need to tap into the oil pan.

Also, does anybody have any experience with Whipple superchargers? They use a twin screw design. Anyway, it seems like they have a nice product but they are very pricey.

It's amazing how much these modern supercharges cost. Last time I bought one I paid $1400 for a Weiand 144 for my Chevy small block. These new ones from Vortech, Whipple and others are 4 to 6 grand!
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Old 11-08-2004, 06:47 PM   #2
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The Whipple and the Kenne Bell share the same design, an autorotor twin screw. The design is more efficient than the roots style such as the Magnuson/Eaton. Thats why most fast Ford Lightnings and Cobras have switched over to them. I have the KB on my '90 GT, at 10-11 psi it makes a solid 403 rwhp and 492 ft/lbs of torque on a stock 302 block with heads/cam/exhaust. Very nice toy, though a wee bit expensive on tires.

As for the Powerdyne, they had a reputation for cheapness/failure originally, but have improved their quality levels. They also came out with an oil line fed version similiar to Vortech, to keep up with the competition.
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Old 11-08-2004, 06:51 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedalofloudness...
Supposedly C.A.P.A Performance has put together some kind of kit for th '04 GTO that is based on the Powerdyne unit. I am going to get some more info on this such as pricing and boost levels. I'm interested because it seems like it would be a very easy unit to install with no need to tap into the oil pan.

Also, does anybody have any experience with Whipple superchargers? They use a twin screw design. Anyway, it seems like they have a nice product but they are very pricey.

It's amazing how much these modern supercharges cost. Last time I bought one I paid $1400 for a Weiand 144 for my Chevy small block. These new ones from Vortech, Whipple and others are 4 to 6 grand!

Let's not forget the $600-1000 on top of that for installation, and the additional $500 for the tune and retiming of the engine! All told, it'll probably run you about $7500+ for all the necessary additions. Well on your way to hitting 25% of the car's purchase price!
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Old 11-09-2004, 02:47 PM   #4
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Superchargers

The Autorotor "compressor" is just that, a compressor. It was designed and used as a device to pressurize the cabins of high flying aircraft and was never meant to be installed on an engine.

The twin "screw" or "high helix" blowers are more efficient than traditional or even twisted lob rotor "Roots style" blowers in the higher PSI ranges starting around 13psi which is more than a stock, no internal modded, engine can handle.

Centrifugal superchargers are OK. They make boost relative to RPM, the more RPM the more boost taking in consideration how much the start boost is by pulley size.

But for max boost when the hammer is dropped, there is nothing better than the "Roots" blower that has been around for 50+ years.

Just my opinion. (Nomex On, flame away!)

RC
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Old 11-09-2004, 03:59 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racecrafter...
The Autorotor "compressor" is just that, a compressor. It was designed and used as a device to pressurize the cabins of high flying aircraft and was never meant to be installed on an engine.

The twin "screw" or "high helix" blowers are more efficient than traditional or even twisted lob rotor "Roots style" blowers in the higher PSI ranges starting around 13psi which is more than a stock, no internal modded, engine can handle.

Centrifugal superchargers are OK. They make boost relative to RPM, the more RPM the more boost taking in consideration how much the start boost is by pulley size.

But for max boost when the hammer is dropped, there is nothing better than the "Roots" blower that has been around for 50+ years.

Just my opinion. (Nomex On, flame away!)

RC


Centrifugal blowers our just OK, LOL!!! Thats funny. Even the 03/04 Cobra guys are switching to Prochargers or Turbos.....

And the myth that they dont make power down low is BS as well!!!! My Camaro is making over 600 RWHP at 4200 RPMs.

Boost for Boost my F1 is making the same as similar speced turbo's. The problem with blowers is they are usually a kit produced for mostly stock cars. While turbo kits are more custom in there design.

I want a twin screw on My GTO because I dont want the hassle of a turbo and I already have a Procharged Camaro.

Last edited by Screwed Goat; 11-09-2004 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 11-09-2004, 06:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Screwed Goat...
Centrifugal blowers our just OK, LOL!!! Thats funny. Even the 03/04 Cobra guys are switching to Prochargers or Turbos.....

And the myth that they dont make power down low is BS as well!!!! My Camaro is making over 600 RWHP at 4200 RPMs.

Boost for Boost my F1 is making the same as similar speced turbo's. The problem with blowers is they are usually a kit produced for mostly stock cars. While turbo kits are more custom in there design.

I want a twin screw on My GTO because I dont want the hassle of a turbo and I already have a Procharged Camaro.


I couldnt agree more... Everyone gave me crap about having a Vortech on my Honda saying turbos were better or roots blowers (Jackson Racing kit) is better this and that... They all said I couldnt get into the 13's on it... Lets just say had I went to the track this summer before parting it out, it would have broke into the 11's on pump gas. The only thing I changed on the kit was a custom 8 rib belt setup from a 4 rib. (Talk about issues with belt slippage!)
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Old 11-09-2004, 09:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racecrafter...
The Autorotor "compressor" is just that, a compressor. It was designed and used as a device to pressurize the cabins of high flying aircraft and was never meant to be installed on an engine.

The twin "screw" or "high helix" blowers are more efficient than traditional or even twisted lob rotor "Roots style" blowers in the higher PSI ranges starting around 13psi which is more than a stock, no internal modded, engine can handle.

Centrifugal superchargers are OK. They make boost relative to RPM, the more RPM the more boost taking in consideration how much the start boost is by pulley size.

But for max boost when the hammer is dropped, there is nothing better than the "Roots" blower that has been around for 50+ years.

Just my opinion. (Nomex On, flame away!)

RC

You're way off. "Twin Screw" is not the same as "High Helix". High helix is an improvement on the twisted lobe roots blower, and was invented by Eaton and stolen by Littlefield and others.

Twin screws have a male and a female rotor, and rotate in the opposite direction from the roots type. They take the air down between the screws, whereas the roots type takes the air around the outside of the rotors. Whipples are about 68% efficient, and the billet cased twin screws made by Autorotor are about 72% efficient. BTW, Autorotor bought out Lysholm/Whipple years ago and now sells a high end twin screw blower with a billet case.

Traditional roots blowers like Weiand and B&M are only about 35% efficient. Eaton and Whipple are both about 68% efficient. Plus, the old roots blowers leak about 18% while the newer types only leak 2% or less.

It was the roots, not the autorotor, that was originally an industrial blower. The roots was originally designed for ventillating mines.

Dude, get your facts straight before you post. It takes more than one article before you're an expert, particularly if you can't even parrot the article correctly.
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Old 11-11-2004, 01:52 AM   #8
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Lysholm is the best you are going to get for all around power and efficency. other than the turbo... we all know how big of a pita turbos can be.
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Old 11-11-2004, 04:43 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSiJason...
I couldnt agree more... Everyone gave me crap about having a Vortech on my Honda saying turbos were better or roots blowers (Jackson Racing kit) is better this and that... They all said I couldnt get into the 13's on it... Lets just say had I went to the track this summer before parting it out, it would have broke into the 11's on pump gas. The only thing I changed on the kit was a custom 8 rib belt setup from a 4 rib. (Talk about issues with belt slippage!)

I have a S-Trim on my 383 Formula and I start seeing boost around 2800-3000 RPM with a total of 12lbs at redline. I can't complain about the torque.

Of course a stroked 350 would have something to do with that.
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Old 11-11-2004, 08:00 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermike...
What's interesting is that Eaton is a Lysholm licensee, even though their design is neither a classic roots nor a classic twin screw. I suspect they obtained a licence from SRM to avoid litigation because of the superficial similarity.
http://www.lysholm.se/en/contact_eng.asp
http://www.rotor.se/srm/frame.html
http://www.rotor.se/ett.html
The Kenne Bell and Whipple appear to be Lysholm units.

Yeah, and Lysholm was bought by Autorotor a few years back. The Lysholm units marketed by Whipple use cast housings. Autorotor makes a high dollar version with billet case, tighter tolerances and a tweaked rotor design that is stronger than the Lysholm/Whipple units and can spin much faster. The Kenne Bell Blowzilla is an Autorotor unit and can run boost up to about 28 psi. The Whipple chargers have a redline of about 14,000 rpm, while the Blowzillas can go to 18,000.

Not that a stock LSx engine could ever use that much boost, but then again, SLP markets a 427 low compression short block for about $3500...
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Old 11-11-2004, 07:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stonebreaker...
Not that a stock LSx engine could ever use that much boost, but then again, SLP markets a 427 low compression short block for about $3500...

not to mention its a cast iron block.
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Old 11-11-2004, 07:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iroc_zo6...
not to mention its a cast iron block.


Its a 408 cid iron block.

Any info on a twin screw kit yet???????
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Old 01-20-2005, 07:38 PM   #13
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Powerdyne?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedalofloudness...
Supposedly C.A.P.A Performance has put together some kind of kit for th '04 GTO that is based on the Powerdyne unit. I am going to get some more info on this such as pricing and boost levels. I'm interested because it seems like it would be a very easy unit to install with no need to tap into the oil pan.

Anyone have more info regarding Powerdyne kit availability from CAPA/Aussieland? I still have the 6# kit sitting in the sealed box on my garage floor that was going in my 01 Yukon (before I decided I had to have a Radix). Would love to buy the install kit and put it in my GTO--as opposed to selling it for a $500 loss.
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Old 01-21-2005, 07:22 AM   #14
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Powerdyne is no good in the performance world.I wouldn't put one on my car even if it was all free.
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Old 01-21-2005, 07:49 AM   #15
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Powerdyne vs. ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowhawk...
Powerdyne is no good in the performance world.I wouldn't put one on my car even if it was all free.

Been around long enough to know that the Powerdyne is not going to out perform the other centrifugals (ATI, Vortech, maybe Paxton) but to say that it is "no good" is subjective and/or ill-informed. The Australians have been using them with FMICs on LT1/LS1s successfully for sometime. They do need to be worked a bit for "extreme service" reliability. Replace the ceramic bearings, install a kevlar belt and some deburring does wonders for their longevity. And if you want more boost, go to the X1--same housing with 18# capability. No reason why I can't get 85-100 hp out of the Powerdyne sitting in my garage...I'll certainly share the results here if I go that route.

All that said, if I were starting with nothing I would go ATI.
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Old 01-21-2005, 12:10 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Screwed Goat...
Its a 408 cid iron block.

Any info on a twin screw kit yet???????

It's a 402, and it's SLP so i will never buy one. For a couple hundred more i can get a much higher quality engine.

And i too want more twin screw info.
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Old 01-23-2005, 01:19 PM   #17
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I had a Powerdyne blower on my 92 Ford Taurus SHO. Put 400hp to the front wheels on only 8lbs with a 3.2L. If you don't have any first hand expierience, don't talk from your backside.
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Old 01-23-2005, 02:05 PM   #18
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Interesting FI results tracked here...

Forced Induction
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Old 07-08-2005, 04:09 AM   #19
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sorry about the thread mining BUT the capa powerdyne has been released and is shipping now, any more thoughts on it?

Anyone fitted a similar powerdyne?

This is how I see it:

The powerdyne capa kit is AU$4k (about $3k US) with LS1 installation kit and base tune on disc. They are quoting something like 270~280rwkw with HSV exhaust (cheap) and stock fuel system. Its being pushed as an easy install cam-only alternative, not a competitor to the top blowers.

A decent IC blower (say 300+rwkw) is going to demand uprated injectors and fuel pump, a more exxy exhaust and you may as well add a decent clutch for that kind of power. Together with the greater base cost the total package is about 3x (or more) vs the powerdyne (for example harrop IC $10k installed/tuned + injectors + fuel pump + big banger clutch = $15k).

Now for $3k, given the modest power expectations, is this a good buy? If not, why? Is there something wrong with the powerdynes? I see the other blowers tipping you into the realm where uprated fuel and driveline components becomes an issue. Perhaps 75% the power for 30% the cost is good enough for some.

Interested in your thoughts.
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Old 07-08-2005, 01:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forrestd...
sorry about the thread mining BUT the capa powerdyne has been released and is shipping now, any more thoughts on it?

Anyone fitted a similar powerdyne?

This is how I see it:

The powerdyne capa kit is AU$4k (about $3k US) with LS1 installation kit and base tune on disc. They are quoting something like 270~280rwkw with HSV exhaust (cheap) and stock fuel system. Its being pushed as an easy install cam-only alternative, not a competitor to the top blowers.

A decent IC blower (say 300+rwkw) is going to demand uprated injectors and fuel pump, a more exxy exhaust and you may as well add a decent clutch for that kind of power. Together with the greater base cost the total package is about 3x (or more) vs the powerdyne (for example harrop IC $10k installed/tuned + injectors + fuel pump + big banger clutch = $15k).

Now for $3k, given the modest power expectations, is this a good buy? If not, why? Is there something wrong with the powerdynes? I see the other blowers tipping you into the realm where uprated fuel and driveline components becomes an issue. Perhaps 75% the power for 30% the cost is good enough for some.

Interested in your thoughts.

Initially, this was exactly my thoughts and plan. 4-5 lbs boost would easily provide the 100rwhp (sorry, I'm not up to snuff on the kw ratings--for reference, my GTO made 296rwhp/315rwtq stock on a dynojet dyno) that I was looking for, at approximately the same cost as a heads/cam package.

I have since bumped my mod program a few notches, and teh Powerdyne would have ended up on the shop bench, where as my heads/cam will still be salvageable...so, I suppose that one must be VERY sure of their long term plan/goal before jumping on the Powerdyne supercharger.
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Old 07-08-2005, 02:03 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoatChs...
Initially, this was exactly my thoughts and plan. 4-5 lbs boost would easily provide the 100rwhp (sorry, I'm not up to snuff on the kw ratings--for reference, my GTO made 296rwhp/315rwtq stock on a dynojet dyno) that I was looking for, at approximately the same cost as a heads/cam package.

I have since bumped my mod program a few notches, and teh Powerdyne would have ended up on the shop bench, where as my heads/cam will still be salvageable...so, I suppose that one must be VERY sure of their long term plan/goal before jumping on the Powerdyne supercharger.

True it helps if you know what you want to do and when. Ironically this is one of the reasons i'm looking at a blower. My last ls1 (VYSS) had the cam/valve springs/timing gear/high-stall etc it was harder to sell versus a standard car. Luckily in the end someone came along who couldnt tell/didnt care and just bought it. I should have went to the trouble to get back the cam and stally but it was too much hassle. So I thought i'd try a blower this time. You make a good point though, what do you do when the HP bug bites... I dont think i would develop the powerdyne, I would bolt it off (sell it) and look at something else, maybe another blower, turbo, or cam etc.
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Old 07-08-2005, 03:10 PM   #22
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I looked into this quite a bit because powerdyne was going to do a kit for my dakota. While the original powerdyne unit has the reputation we all know about they have a NEW SETUP that a few have eluded to but have not touched all the bases....

the new powerdyne unit: xb-1a
NO MORE BELTS...........the new unit uses an internal gear system and requires an oil line
MORE CFM i believe the new unit flows 1200cfm (vs 700-800cfm, i dont remember)and is good to 18 psi.

BONUS......it fits the SAME bracket as the original belt version.


all in all the new unit IIRC specs closely to the T-trim vortech but the t-trim can do more psi.
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Old 07-08-2005, 08:27 PM   #23
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I looked at the xb as well (link here) but the head unit alone is over $2000. They have a separate 9lb and 12lb head unit but as previously stated, are capable of more.
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Old 01-23-2006, 10:36 AM   #24
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I think the powerdyne blower the newer one work alsome but there pulley system is kinda bad I made a power dyne kit for my GTo using a 2000 GMC truck kit. I made my own pulley system and i am making great number for what I have done to car. Sure its cheap way to go but I was able to save 4,000 since i only paid 1,200 for everthing I need for blower and tuned and 6 lbs Pulley I was about on stock car make 375 hp to the wheels which i was very happy with.
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Old 01-23-2006, 12:22 PM   #25
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Powerdyne was a great idea but bad implementation,,they have impporved the unit and with the kevlar belt and better bearings it is okay at low boost levels.
under 6lbs of boost it should be as good as any other just dont go higher.
If the new kit was for $1799 (like it is for fox Mustangs) i would consider it until I could afford better. For $3000 +shipping+tuning = no way in hell. The vortech is less than $5k and includes injectors+pump+intercooler and a base tune to get you on the road.
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Old 01-23-2006, 07:40 PM   #26
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just to let you guys know we installed the CAPA blower on an 04 Monro. Full write up here:

http://forums.v8owners.com.au/showthread.php?t=1488

I think i removed it after 3 weeks or so.
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Old 01-23-2006, 07:50 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSix...
It's a 402, and it's SLP so i will never buy one. For a couple hundred more i can get a much higher quality engine.

And i too want more twin screw info.


don't meant to t/j or anything, but have any of you guys read the thread on ls1tech about someone who bought the 402 from slp, ant it blew within a couple hundred miles?? They said slp used a bad natch of pistons, and wont back up their product.
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Old 01-24-2006, 04:54 AM   #28
Steel Chicken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss496...
don't meant to t/j or anything, but have any of you guys read the thread on ls1tech about someone who bought the 402 from slp, ant it blew within a couple hundred miles?? They said slp used a bad natch of pistons, and wont back up their product.

yeah thats an interesting thread for sure. Its hard to know exactly what happened without having the motor in person to eyeball, but something went terribly wrong. I have no bias for or against SLP but it sure looks like they are trying to force the customer to "prove its our fault beyond a shadow of doubt" before allowing the warranty to cover the damage. Weird situation. Someone call CSI!
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