Upgrading the stock system for 550-600 rwhp? - LS1GTO.com Forums

Vendors


Go Back   LS1GTO.com Forums > GTO Tech > Fuel System

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 11-25-2015, 07:11 AM   #1
JDSfastGN
Registered User
 
2005 GTO Owner

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cypress TX
Posts: 518


Offline
Upgrading the stock system for 550-600 rwhp?

Alright so Iím in the middle of a LSA blower setup on my forged 10.0:1 LS2. LS3 heads with a nice VJ, 226/230 cam with 118 LSA (-8 overlap) stock manifolds (I know Iím leaving some on the table) and 11-12 lbs of boost. This should put me in the 550-570 rwhp range judging off of most LSA vehicles with similar mods. So my fuel system plans for this setup are an 8.1 bucket with GTO top portion with a LPE walbro 340 that is powered by a hotwire from the alternator. For now I will be running stock ZR1 (54-56 lbs depending on the source) and will eventually go with the resized 85# Zr1 injectors that are available. Will the walbro with 13.5 volts and a 8.1 bucket give me enough cushion on 93 at this level? I really donít want to modify the system and spend a ton of money on it to make it a return style. (Yes Iím being a cheap ass since Iím a new dad) With the 8.1 bucket/venturi setup would an aeromotive 340 still be too much for the stock style fuel setup? Thanks for the advice.
__________________
2005 MBM GTO: LSA supercharged, forged pistons and rods, LS3 heads, 226/230/118LSA, 10.0:1, 80 # FIC injectors, Mcleod RST and magnaflow mufflers.
573/561 on 9.5 psi through stock manifolds.
1.59 60 ft/7.0@103.7 1/8th/ 11.0@123 (laying over up top from collapsing intake)


87 Buick GN: 10.701 @128
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-25-2015, 07:11 PM   #2
mrjake
Registered User
 
2006 GTO Owner

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Massapequa park, ny
Posts: 138


Offline
I'm at 547 rwhp on a 320 liter pump and a stock bucket I think u will be ok.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-25-2015, 07:36 PM   #3
JDSfastGN
Registered User
 
2005 GTO Owner

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cypress TX
Posts: 518


Offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjake...View Post
I'm at 547 rwhp on a 320 liter pump and a stock bucket I think u will be ok.

Is that an aeromotive 340 or the newish DW300? Your idle pressures are ok? Thanks for the input.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-26-2015, 05:38 AM   #4
Lakegoat
Registered User
 
Lakegoat's Avatar
 
2005 GTO Owner

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 1,849


Offline
I used the LPE pump and boost a pump voltage booster at 590 hp. It was in the 90% range at wot. I didn't have the 8.1 bucket either and it worked fine.
__________________
TVS 2300, 4L80
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-27-2015, 05:36 AM   #5
PHM 06GTO
Registered User
 
2006 GTO Owner

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 122


Offline
I have a similar question/concern. I have TVS 1900 with 317 heads, forged internals, running 2.8 front and I'm at 570 ish. Have a DW65 with a boost-a-pump with the stock fuel system. Fuel pressure is at 60 lbs but when I go WOT it's dropping to 40 lbs. I would like to keep the fuel pressure closer to 60 at WOT without going to a return system. I have read post by Arthurguy and the work he did regarding fuel system choices, would prefeer to just change pump and possibly some wiring.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-02-2015, 10:00 PM   #6
Jontall
1 of 262
 
Jontall's Avatar
 
2006 GTO Owner

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 10,002


Offline
My Lingenfelter high flow fuel pump works well and I'm at 603 rwhp with a TVS2300/ boost-a-pump/ stock bucket. My pressure does drop at WOT to about ~45psi, but it never runs out of fuel.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2015, 04:52 AM   #7
seawolf06
NC Rogue Squadron
 
seawolf06's Avatar
 
2004 GTO Owner

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,421
Premium Member


Offline
Question on tuning: Does the tune adjust the flow of the injectors based upon fuel pressure?

If not, wouldn't a lower fuel pressure than expected cause you to run leaner than expected?
__________________
1968 Chevelle 396
1995 Camaro Z28
2005 YJ GTO
2004 YJ GTO "Stormtrooper"
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2015, 07:45 AM   #8
CGMike
Registered User
 
CGMike's Avatar
 
2006 GTO Owner

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lancaster, CA
Posts: 2,413


Offline
From what Haddad told me, they compensate for the drop in pressure in the tune. He also said, that a drop in pressure does not mean a loss of flow. same amount of fuel just at a lower pressure.
__________________
06 CGM M6 "This Goat Doesn't Graze" TVS1900! Mav Man Diffuser CCW 19 inch SP20s staggered OEM grey stitching and grey face gauges. 503hp 495ft/lbs of torque @ 8psi

Current Other Cars:
59 VW Bug 1914cc
64 Nova 327 and Muncie, new project.
06 WRX VF43. Mild built motor
06 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins 4x4

www.facebook.com/Avcarsandcoffee/
AV Cars And Coffee every 3rd Sunday
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2015, 09:01 AM   #9
MP_gto
6POINT0
 
MP_gto's Avatar
 
2005 GTO Owner

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Colorado Springs, CO / Mexico
Posts: 556


Offline
what injector's are you guys running with these setups?

Yes the tune compensates for the loss in fuel pressure until the injector is maxed out and cant deliver enough fuel at that pressure / pulse. more pressure = more fuel per squirt. but the puter does this based on the tune not off actual fuel pressure. If the pressure "curve" changes the tune has to change too. (magic)
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2015, 10:15 AM   #10
CGMike
Registered User
 
CGMike's Avatar
 
2006 GTO Owner

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lancaster, CA
Posts: 2,413


Offline
Im running the injectors that came with the TVS1900, which I believe are stock LS9 injectors. Im also running the walboro 255 (LPE fuel pump) with the boost a pump that comes with the Maggie.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2015, 11:32 AM   #11
eaglegoat
Registered User
 
eaglegoat's Avatar
 
2006 GTO Owner

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: SV, AZ
Posts: 10,455


Offline
The walbro 340 is only a 255lph pump. I recommend the dw300c in the 8.1 bucket. Stock ls9 injectors are 52.5 lbs/hr. I doubt that will be enough injector. SD60s are in the 73lb/hr at GM fuel pressure and would work better. I've got an ls2 370 w/mp112 (2.7 front, 1:1 rear) that's gonna run the same setup. Not my car, customer car.
__________________
'06 QSM M6; Griffin Rad, BMR Skid Plate, MGW-P, Spintech H pipe and mufflers in '04 location - STOLEN
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2015, 12:34 PM   #12
JDSfastGN
Registered User
 
2005 GTO Owner

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cypress TX
Posts: 518


Offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglegoat...View Post
The walbro 340 is only a 255lph pump. I recommend the dw300c in the 8.1 bucket. Stock ls9 injectors are 52.5 lbs/hr. I doubt that will be enough injector. SD60s are in the 73lb/hr at GM fuel pressure and would work better. I've got an ls2 370 w/mp112 (2.7 front, 1:1 rear) that's gonna run the same setup. Not my car, customer car.

Is there no issue overpowering the venturies and having high idle pressures with the dw300c? The LSA are at the verge of being too small once they get over 550 or so. I plan on upgrading a bit down the road. If I need to detune a bit I will. I just don't want to overly complicate the tune in my new engine when I put this all back together.

Thanks for the advice guys.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2015, 12:48 PM   #13
eaglegoat
Registered User
 
eaglegoat's Avatar
 
2006 GTO Owner

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: SV, AZ
Posts: 10,455


Offline
Dunno. Motor is not in the car yet. I don't anticipate one. The 300c is a 340lph, but only about 300 at GM pressure. That's about 20% increase over the dw65c (265lph) which is about 240lph at 58psi.

Everything should go together shortly after the new year.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2015, 01:54 PM   #14
MP_gto
6POINT0
 
MP_gto's Avatar
 
2005 GTO Owner

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Colorado Springs, CO / Mexico
Posts: 556


Offline
what rods and pistons are you running? How long have you been running them?
Im about to purchase some forged hole fillers myself.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2015, 02:18 PM   #15
flynfry
oops, killed another one
 
flynfry's Avatar
 
2006 GTO Owner

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: near 'The Strip' LV
Posts: 435


Offline
fwiw lpe/255 & Maggie bap worked to 570whp. Switched to aero340/kb bap/hotwire at 600.
__________________
06 A4 CGM TVS-1900, Top Gear 4L65, db's, NicD tune
11.11@102 - http://vid920.photobucket.com/albums...O/1-6-2012.mp4
10.59@128 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxro7VKZ8-E
10.71@125 1.47 60' - http://youtu.be/bSucLBlJcKs?t=15s

06 A4 TR HTV-1900, mvb 4L80 swap by Top Gear, NicD tune, lotsa Gforce-10.90 @125 1.54 60' (hp bump in planning phase)
LVMS - http://vid920.photobucket.com/albums...ps7e5c134b.mp4
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2015, 07:28 PM   #16
JDSfastGN
Registered User
 
2005 GTO Owner

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cypress TX
Posts: 518


Offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by MP_gto...View Post
what rods and pistons are you running? How long have you been running them?
Im about to purchase some forged hole fillers myself.

Weisco 3.2 cc forged standard bore pistons and scat H beam rods. It has about 7k miles but the rings never fully seated and it's coming back out to be looked at before the blower.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flynfry...View Post
fwiw lpe/255 & Maggie bap worked to 570whp. Switched to aero340/kb bap/hotwire at 600.

do you have high fuel pressure issues at low loads with the aero340? I run an aeromotive 340 in my buick and it's been great but I'm worried about the high fuel pressure issues I've read about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglegoat...View Post
Dunno. Motor is not in the car yet. I don't anticipate one. The 300c is a 340lph, but only about 300 at GM pressure. That's about 20% increase over the dw65c (265lph) which is about 240lph at 58psi.

Everything should go together shortly after the new year.

I look forward to seeing your results. I may consider the 300c as well.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-04-2015, 07:16 AM   #17
eaglegoat
Registered User
 
eaglegoat's Avatar
 
2006 GTO Owner

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: SV, AZ
Posts: 10,455


Offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by flynfry...View Post
fwiw lpe/255 & Maggie bap worked to 570whp. Switched to aero340/kb bap/hotwire at 600.

This makes it pretty clear that I shouldn't have any problems with the dw300c.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2015, 06:56 PM   #18
JDSfastGN
Registered User
 
2005 GTO Owner

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cypress TX
Posts: 518


Offline
Just an update, I ended up ordering a dw300c and am going to fit it into the 8.1 bucket and see how it works.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-06-2016, 12:13 PM   #19
silverfox
Premium Member
 
silverfox's Avatar
 
2005 GTO Owner

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: New York City
Posts: 158
Premium Member


Offline
Walbro Pump

I'm in need of a higher capacity walbro pump, presently I'm using a 255 lph and I know that there is 340 lph, but I just found a walbro 450 lph, anyone out there using one of these. My new engine combo is a 418 LS3 set up with a procharger F1A and running 10 psi.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-06-2016, 02:31 PM   #20
flynfry
oops, killed another one
 
flynfry's Avatar
 
2006 GTO Owner

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: near 'The Strip' LV
Posts: 435


Offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by flynfry...View Post
fwiw lpe/255 & Maggie bap worked to 570whp. Switched to aero340/kb bap/hotwire at 600.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDSfastGN...View Post
do you have high fuel pressure issues at low loads with the aero340? I run an aeromotive 340 in my buick and it's been great but I'm worried about the high fuel pressure issues I've read about.

apologies for not replying sooner. no issues so far but only 600 miles and 16 passes on the new setup and I don't have a fp gauge. will post when I start logging if anything is funky.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-07-2016, 07:18 PM   #21
Audacious Nick
Send Nudes
 
Audacious Nick's Avatar
 
2004 GTO Owner

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 4,412


Offline
Yes, the Aero340 will give high fuel pressure in the stock position, at pretty much every load. If I remember correctly, it was about 10 PSI higher than stock. Dropped a tad when WOT, but it was still way too high.
__________________
2004 GTO- Gone.
2008 Corvette- Also gone. Stock- 12.5@118
2007 ES350-Racecar. Cabin air filter swap, air filter swap, spark plug swap, Pennzoil Platinum, air in tires, some MLV, premium unleaded, Michelin wipers.
2006 GSXR 1000- "The 250." Akrapovic full exhaust, Rotella, brake lines.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2016, 02:29 AM   #22
chaddy74
Registered User
 
chaddy74's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 10


Offline
What part number # DW300 did you purchase ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDSfastGN...View Post
Just an update, I ended up ordering a dw300c and am going to fit it into the 8.1 bucket and see how it works.

  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2016, 03:26 AM   #23
JDSfastGN
Registered User
 
2005 GTO Owner

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cypress TX
Posts: 518


Offline
I ordered DeatschWerks 9-309-1008 340lph DW300C Fuel pump. So far so good with it. I have a friend that just made 590 with one with the stock bucket and had no pressure drop at 8-9 psi. Hopefully I will have mine on the Dyno soon and have the gauge hooked up during the run.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2016, 03:42 AM   #24
chaddy74
Registered User
 
chaddy74's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 10


Offline
Thanks Mate ! I here the fitment is a bit of a PITA !! Thanks for the prompt reply
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDSfastGN...View Post
I ordered DeatschWerks 9-309-1008 340lph DW300C Fuel pump. So far so good with it. I have a friend that just made 590 with one with the stock bucket and had no pressure drop at 8-9 psi. Hopefully I will have mine on the Dyno soon and have the gauge hooked up during the run.

  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2016, 04:45 AM   #25
JDSfastGN
Registered User
 
2005 GTO Owner

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cypress TX
Posts: 518


Offline
It's a direct plug in and drop in with the stock bucket. As easy as it gets
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2016, 12:23 PM   #26
chaddy74
Registered User
 
chaddy74's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 10


Offline
Cool thanks what about all this 8.1L truck bucket stuff ?? Are you saying that the DW300c pump upgrade into the stock bucket works fine ?? did you drill holes in the the stock bucket or just R&R ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDSfastGN...View Post
It's a direct plug in and drop in with the stock bucket. As easy as it gets


Last edited by chaddy74; 06-06-2016 at 02:56 AM.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-24-2016, 04:35 AM   #27
JDSfastGN
Registered User
 
2005 GTO Owner

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cypress TX
Posts: 518


Offline
I just wanted to give an update on this. I ran the DW300C for 6 months or so without issue but last week it went lean on a 3rd gear pull. I hooked up a gauge and it was dropping from 55 down to 35 and it would lean out. I had an aeromotive 340 on the shelf and decided to throw it in there. I dropped it in to my 8.1 bucket and it fired up. But now idle pressure was 85 psi + So I took the 8.1 bucket back out and studied how it all worked and operated. The regulator sends the "returned" fuel down a large 3/8" "tube that's built into the bucket. It then goes through an orifice'd manifold and shoots back at the underside of the fuel hat keeping the bucket full. I should have taken pictures to clarify but I ended up drilling the orifice larger. That fixed it. Idle pressures are now right at 58-60 and stay around 55-56 under WOT all the way to redline. So I can assume that the aeromotive340 provides more fuel volume at our operating pressure since the smaller orifice was able to accommodate the 300C.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2017, 06:27 PM   #28
Jesseg0106
Registered User
 

Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Jacksonville, nc
Posts: 3


Offline
ive tried reading several fuel system forums and threads and cant seem to find my answer this one being one of the most elaborated threads.

my situation is i recently upgraded heads and cam and needed to upgrade either fuel pump or injectors. seeing it that i had a walboro 450 pump i threw that in the tank instead of new injectors. somehow i was still have issues so i ended up hooking the pump straight to the stock sending line all the way to the fuel rails. my psi is more than enough (130psi) at idle. Now my issue is my plugs and now 02 sensors have both failed. tune is doing good however only the driver side shows rich passenger side is fine. ive done plugs, wires, and 02 sensors. seriously thinking of spending the money and building a return style system. Is there anyway to fix this without a return style system?
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2017, 07:04 PM   #29
MP_gto
6POINT0
 
MP_gto's Avatar
 
2005 GTO Owner

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Colorado Springs, CO / Mexico
Posts: 556


Offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesseg0106...View Post
ive tried reading several fuel system forums and threads and cant seem to find my answer this one being one of the most elaborated threads.

my situation is i recently upgraded heads and cam and needed to upgrade either fuel pump or injectors. seeing it that i had a walboro 450 pump i threw that in the tank instead of new injectors. somehow i was still have issues so i ended up hooking the pump straight to the stock sending line all the way to the fuel rails. my psi is more than enough (130psi) at idle. Now my issue is my plugs and now 02 sensors have both failed. tune is doing good however only the driver side shows rich passenger side is fine. ive done plugs, wires, and 02 sensors. seriously thinking of spending the money and building a return style system. Is there anyway to fix this without a return style system?

To start 130 is silly don't do that.

Your removing the tank again either way (that's a lot of fun.

I have posted many things fuel related you should be able to find. You can do an in trunk regulator and use the stock feed as a return vs running new lines from the front.

The limit that I found is the regulator in the bucket. If you bypass that you need something to regulate fuel. I made over 500 wheel until that was the limit. Most will agree over 550 you need to do some kind of return / referenced system.

Here is a place to start. My eforce build thread may have some more fuel things. I know I posted a bunch of pictures on what I did but dunno where it's at.

Fuel things
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=784321

Build thread
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=696265


Tldr. Didn't proof it


Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk
__________________
05 banana - Forged LS2 Wiseco / K1 / ARP stuff, E-Force TVS 2300 @~12.5psi on e85, TSP 224R, 1 7/8 LT, SLP LM2, Dual in tank WB450's, 4L80E / 3600 , other fun stuff
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the LS1GTO.com Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Location
Where you live (must be accurate to IP location, if wrong you may be permanently banned)
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:20 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.