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Old 03-29-2017, 10:25 PM   #1
DangerNoodle
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TBSS Intake Manifold Project

To my knowledge, nobody has tried slapping one of these on their LS1. Lack of a garage and the shitty weather has made progress for me slow.

Rumors claim the TBSS intake manifold "L92" is the one thing GM got right despite it looking like Eric Stoltz from "Mask".

We all saw the thread that had the intake comparison from Hotrod magazine: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/20-ls...ifolds-tested/

And that got me thinking... even if it flows as good a LS6 intake, it allows me to use a larger throttle body, so no matter how I look at it... that's a win!

So after a quick search I found one in the area and the guy sold it to me with fuel rails and fuel injectors and all required bolts for only $100 (Doubt I'll use the stock fuel rails because the cross over pipe goes up and over the intake.)



Annoyingly my phone corrupted a bunch of my photos so I'll post what survived.

I checked what clearance is currently available by placing playdoh on top of the current intake manifold, closed the hood, then measured the height of the playdoh.
It was roughly 10.2 inches at the rear and 9 1/4 inches at the front near the throttle body on top of the first runner.

The TBSS intake manifold is 10.25 inches tall at the tallest point. Hacksaw and dremel were required.

Cleaned in Purple Power.


Plastic weld up all the holes; I plan to relocate everything to the rear of the intake.


I thought about shaving all the plastic structural beams.. but I wouldn't get any height benefit since I was leaving the 2 mounts in the front. smurf it, BONDO!



I have never used Bondo before. I had to go buy a $20 palm sander because even using a sanding block was taking too damn long!



Finally sanded it down enough to see the beams again. Had to buy more damn Bondo to fill in the missing pieces.



More Bondo...


Finally ready for paint.


Used a primer that is sand-able... it seemed no different than regular primer.



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Last edited by DangerNoodle; 04-25-2017 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 03-29-2017, 10:27 PM   #2
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The bucket I used wasn't large enough to fit the sheet of hydro - dip film so it didn't cover the top 100% as planned

After 2 tries, I got frustrated and this is what I ended up with so far, wasting a lot of my hydro - dip film.





No clear coat applied yet. Still deciding on how to repair the pieces that missed the hydro - dip.

So I still have to buy / build:
gasket
fuel rails
modified brackets for fuel rails so I can use my 60lb Ls1 fuel injectors
92mm throttle body
bracket for cable for throttle body
rear attachment for brake booster, vacuum line, and MAP sensor.
And a retune.

So, plenty of work to still do.

Oh yeah and make sure there is enough hood clearance or get creative on that as well.

Last edited by DangerNoodle; 04-04-2017 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 03-29-2017, 10:53 PM   #3
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I have a set of Professional Products fuel rails that I bought and never used if you're interested.
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Old 03-29-2017, 11:01 PM   #4
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Kit 10611 red anodized. It has a fuel pressure regulator that you won't need. If you want to measure the spacing of the bolt holes I can check and see if they'll line up.
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:02 AM   #5
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That bondo will crack, its way too thick
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Old 03-30-2017, 05:35 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Luxury Yacht...View Post
Kit 10611 red anodized. It has a fuel pressure regulator that you won't need. If you want to measure the spacing of the bolt holes I can check and see if they'll line up.

Thanks I'll get the measurements back to you soon-ish.

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Originally Posted by superchargedgp...View Post
That bondo will crack, its way too thick

I've never used bondo, still learning. I already sanded the bondo down and applied small amounts of bondo to fill in the chips / cracks / air pockets. (7th photo) Are you saying its going to crack later now that I've hydro - dipped and clear coated?

Last edited by DangerNoodle; 04-25-2017 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 04-12-2017, 06:22 PM   #7
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Got a bit further. Added some patch pieces to the hydro-dip. And now it's clear coated and curing. Once cured I'll mask off sections I plan to paint black then focus on vacuum lines and MAP sensor.



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Old 04-12-2017, 06:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Luxury Yacht...View Post
Kit 10611 red anodized. It has a fuel pressure regulator that you won't need. If you want to measure the spacing of the bolt holes I can check and see if they'll line up.

Center to Center of the mounting bolt holes is 8 3/4.

Last edited by DangerNoodle; 04-25-2017 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 04-13-2017, 05:57 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerNoodle...View Post
I've never used bondo, still learning. I already sanded the bondo down and applied small amounts of bondo to fill in the chips / cracks / air pockets. (7th photo) Are you saying its going to crack later now that I've hydro - dipped and clear coated?

It's likely to crack simply due to the thickness in which it's been applied and the differences in thermal expansion between the filler and the plastic ribs. If/when it does crack, it will be along the edges of the ribs at the interface between the two materials.

The hydro-dipping and clear coating has no affect; it'd behave the same if painted traditionally.
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Old 04-13-2017, 11:03 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by itslow...View Post
It's likely to crack simply due to the thickness in which it's been applied and the differences in thermal expansion between the filler and the plastic ribs. If/when it does crack, it will be along the edges of the ribs at the interface between the two materials.

The hydro-dipping and clear coating has no affect; it'd behave the same if painted traditionally.

Gotcha. Learning experience We'll see how it holds up and if I get lucky. Thanks for the info.

Last edited by DangerNoodle; 04-17-2017 at 06:20 AM.
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:17 PM   #11
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Im interested in the power gains from this intake. Supposedly on the TBSS it makes the same power as ours, but it makes more HP down low. Which would be great for an automatic GTO that doesnt want to rev to the moon.

Im one of the few people that dont care about what it looks like...
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:31 PM   #12
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so... what is the verdict on the hood clearance? it is super close i.e. doable with a little massaging or you need to cut a smurfing hole in the hood?
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Old 04-13-2017, 05:16 PM   #13
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Seems like a lot of work for such little gains.
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Old 04-13-2017, 06:57 PM   #14
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I've been contemplating this exact swap. I already have a spare tbss manifold I had acquired for my truck. My main reason is this intake is supposed to make more tq down low (needed for this heavy car) and more power up top. Ive since decided just to wait and get a fast 102 but if this goes well for you then I may have to do it. The biggest issue is we are relying on a butt dyno at this point or are you going to dyno before and after or maybe run it at the strip? It's hard to tell if something like this made a worth while difference
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Old 04-14-2017, 03:40 AM   #15
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Maybe it's 15hp/15tq on stockish engine. Save up for a FAST.
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Old 04-14-2017, 05:26 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothubertjfarnsworth...View Post
so... what is the verdict on the hood clearance? it is super close i.e. doable with a little massaging or you need to cut a smurfing hole in the hood?

No one will notice as long as the hood is hydrodipped as well.
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Old 04-14-2017, 05:26 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Philbar715...View Post

Im one of the few people that dont care about what it looks like...

This applies to anyone who owns a late model GTO.
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Old 04-14-2017, 06:11 AM   #18
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Quote:
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This applies to anyone who owns a late model GTO.

I happen to think my grand am err gto looks pretty nice. Lol.

I only like it because its not a piece of **** f body and it has an ls motor in it. Lol.
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Old 04-14-2017, 09:21 AM   #19
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Maybe it's 15hp/15tq on stockish engine. Save up for a FAST.

Well the draw of the TBSS manifold is torque for the price. Plenty of aftermarket options make about as much power.
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Old 04-15-2017, 03:22 PM   #20
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I'm anxious to see how this turns out. Any update?
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Old 04-17-2017, 06:14 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Kfxguy...View Post
I'm anxious to see how this turns out. Any update?

Going slow, too many projects and no garage. Doing all of this on the balcony of my condo. Working out a fitting for the vacuum lines and MAP sensor now.

To those wondering if it will clear the hood, I'll re-measure soon. I'm confident I can "finesse it in".

Last edited by DangerNoodle; 04-18-2017 at 06:46 AM.
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Old 04-21-2017, 07:36 PM   #22
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Got a bit further on the paint.

A bit of masking tape.





And this is what I ended up with.






The paint wrinkled a bit in the front. I sanded and re-sprayed so it isn't completely dry in the last photo.

Last edited by DangerNoodle; 04-21-2017 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 04-21-2017, 07:52 PM   #23
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After modifying the TBSS and leaving the 2 mounting screws on the top (now the highest point).
The TBSS intake currently sits at 9 5/8 ... 9.625 inches. That is from Engine Valley to highest point on the intake.

Following the slope of the hood. At the 1st runner there is roughly 9 1/4 inches from the Engine Valley to the hood.

At the throttle body connection on the LS6 there is 8 3/4 inches from the Engine Valley to the hood.


I won't 100% know till I try but I don't believe I'm going to have enough space; With the intake's current setup.

Current space available is 9.25. TTBS Intake highest point is 9.625

This isn't including gaskets to the heads, or the Throttle body cable mounting plate, or the screws to hold the mounting plate down.

But one thing at a time.

Last edited by DangerNoodle; 05-08-2017 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:25 PM   #24
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Well I hope it fits. It sure looks like it will to me.

What are you doing for fuel rails? Will the tbss rails hook up to the factory fuel line? I haven't looked at mine yet. I'm anxious to see how the seat of the pants is. I know that when I went from a regular truck manifold with a 75mm throttle body to the tbss intake and 92mm throttle body on my 5.3 truck I could tell a pretty decent difference. It would be worth doing in the gto if it will fit.
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Old 04-22-2017, 03:12 AM   #25
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I did the automotive clay trick to check the hood clearance on my LSA blower. It doesn't take into consideration any movement of the engine. I had 1/4" clearance and the motor moved enough (with 3/8" lowered poly mounts) to take the powdercoating off my lid. Please don't ruin your hood for ~15rwhp/tq. Some friendly advice from a guy who fabs stuff all the time, sometimes you gotta know when to bring the project behind the barn and shoot it. If you had to ruin the hood because you doubled the power, completely different story.
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Old 04-22-2017, 11:55 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvah Goat...View Post
I did the automotive clay trick to check the hood clearance on my LSA blower. It doesn't take into consideration any movement of the engine. I had 1/4" clearance and the motor moved enough (with 3/8" lowered poly mounts) to take the powdercoating off my lid. Please don't ruin your hood for ~15rwhp/tq. Some friendly advice from a guy who fabs stuff all the time, sometimes you gotta know when to bring the project behind the barn and shoot it. If you had to ruin the hood because you doubled the power, completely different story.

Good point, ty!

I have solid motor mounts but I haven't checked to make sure the nuts haven't backed off, I should inspect them to be safe. *Not that they should of backed off but rather be safe than smurfed.*

I'm hoping the worst I have to do is notch the support under the hood.

Paint is all dry.

Last edited by DangerNoodle; 04-25-2017 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:41 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Kfxguy...View Post
...
What are you doing for fuel rails? Will the tbss rails hook up to the factory fuel line?...

Will the TBSS rails hook up to factory LS1 line.... Haven't looked at that yet.

Factory TBSS rails are too tall and the brackets are setup for the stock TBSS injectors which are shorter than LS1 fuel injectors. That's a lot of modifying for what I can purchase new or used cheap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvah Goat...View Post
Maybe it's 15hp/15tq on stockish engine. Save up for a FAST.

Supposedly TBSS will = 15 / 15 = so far, under $150 + some manual labor.
FAST will = 20 / 20 = $850-$900+

I want to use my 60lb ls1 style fuel injectors. I'll probably just order a set of fuel rails. Or buy Raymond's pending on price .

Last edited by DangerNoodle; 05-16-2017 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 04-24-2017, 01:21 PM   #28
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I'm hoping the worst I have to do is notch the support under the hood.

this is even too much, imho.

at least you're trying to see if that's what you have to do, though...
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Old 04-26-2017, 06:08 AM   #29
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Nothing tightened down yet or Loctite'd.

I plan to drill a 7/16 hole into the T section for the MAP Sensor. Then I will make another small hole on the rear of the T section and thread it so I can Loctite a screw in place that will hold a metal bracket that will keep the MAP Sensor in place.




There were plenty of ways to get this done. This just appeared as the quickest / simplest way to me.

As for attaching it to the intake, the 1/2 MIP barely fits inside the already provided tube. I plan to heat the 1/2 threading up then twist it in so it threads the plastic.
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Old 05-03-2017, 12:50 PM   #30
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So after drilling out the brass T section... I realized it was too shallow for the MAP sensor. So I purchased a larger T section and I'll be drilling / tapping that on Thursday.

I've made a deal and been given assistance on fuel rails and hope to have them soon.

I've been looking at throttle bodies and I like Nick Williams throttle bodies, but I'm not trying to spend $400+ on a mere 14mm difference over stock. Ebay has what appears to be decent TBs going for $85.00. Decent being a loose term there. But I'm thinking of purchasing a Holley Sniper EFI Throttle Body or a WARR 92mm Throttle Body.

https://www.amazon.com/Holley-860004.../dp/B01M1I3TF3
https://warrperformance.com/?product...3-ls6-lsx-copy

Not over priced, and at least purchasing from a company I can contact if something goes horribly wrong vs ebay.

After all that, I need to:
• fab a bracket for the throttle body cable
• fab brackets for the fuel rails
• Order a gasket for TBSS intake
• Clean everything once again.
• Remove strut brace and consider altering that with friend that owns a welder.
• Install.
• Check hood clearance, and MAYBE get away with only having to notch the hood.
• Make a call to get the car retuned. I have my previous dyno sheet from when the new CAM was installed so I have a baseline to go against, granted my current OTRCAI wasn't the one used in the previous Dyno tune.

Last edited by DangerNoodle; 05-16-2017 at 11:42 AM.
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