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Old 05-17-2017, 03:07 PM   #1
bser01
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wideband in kooks rear o2 bung

I recently installed an aem 30-4900 wideband. I used the rear drivers side o2 bung on my kooks catless midpipes because the rear o2's aresn't active anyway due to the lack of cats. Anyway after part throttle tuning I notice the idle afr on the wideband is all over the place even though the ST fuel trims are +/- 3 almost everywhere and the car is idling well. Even though the readings jump around quite a bit (about 13.7-14.4) im getting a median around 14.1 once warm. This likely isn't correct as the computer should be keeping the afr at 14.7 at warm idle. Also I'll mention I've tried several wot pulls for tuning purposes and seem to be getting inconsistent results on the wideband, as much as a full point off on runs not far apart.

I have also tried several different power and ground sources thinking that a ground loop may be an issue but received the same results. So I order a new wideband sensor and am still seeing the same issue. My question is how many others have used this location and received good repeatable results? The bung is right in a bend and I'm wondering if this could be lending to the inaccuracies. Any suggestions? The other option is spend a few hours/days communicating with AEM customer service which doesn't sound pleasant.
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Old 05-17-2017, 08:20 PM   #2
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I use that location on both cars and have gotten excellent results.
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Old 05-17-2017, 08:22 PM   #3
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Look to see if your feul trims and narrowband sensor voltage sort of chase the wideband fluctuation, or if they are independant of it. That should devide the diagnosing between a tune/engine control issue and the wideband itself.
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Old 05-18-2017, 05:39 AM   #4
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That's where I have my wideband and haven't had any problems. I'm assuming your stoich hasn't changed? Also, to the point that Hubert made, it may have absolutely nothing to do with your wideband and more of a problem with your front O2's....regardless, would need to see the tune/logs to really be able to make any type of educated assumption.
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Old 05-18-2017, 04:43 PM   #5
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Here is a quick video I took of the wideband. It appears the same in the logs but I don't have a recent log at idle. I'll see what I can do later.

http://youtu.be/GpC1dZaBKBg
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Old 05-18-2017, 05:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bser01...View Post
Anyway after part throttle tuning I notice the idle afr on the wideband is all over the place even though the ST fuel trims are +/- 3 almost everywhere and the car is idling well. Even though the readings jump around quite a bit (about 13.7-14.4) im getting a median around 14.1 once warm. This likely isn't correct as the computer should be keeping the afr at 14.7 at warm idle. Also I'll mention I've tried several wot pulls for tuning purposes and seem to be getting inconsistent results on the wideband, as much as a full point off on runs not far apart.

I have also tried several different power and ground sources thinking that a ground loop may be an issue but received the same results. So I order a new wideband sensor and am still seeing the same issue. My question is how many others have used this location and received good repeatable results? The bung is right in a bend and I'm wondering if this could be lending to the inaccuracies. Any suggestions? The other option is spend a few hours/days communicating with AEM customer service which doesn't sound pleasant.

hmmn, I didn't catch this in bold. would still be nice to see a log, but just based on that, it doesn't seem like the tune is the problem.

I would have also said to try to clean up the signal and make sure the ground and positive are as "pure" as possible, but you've already tried this.

I'm sure there is an free-air calibration available with your wide band. I would try this as well--but I think you may have already done so.

One thing I want to ask, is if you are running a MAF sensor. I know if I run without an intake, the MAF signal isn't too smooth and it messes with the fueling, which shows up on the sensor. It ends up looking just like your gauge at idle. Running with the intake on, and it cleans up the airflow and the MAF reads just fine, and the wideband reflects this. I would imagine if this was the case, your STFT's would show that, though.

i'll do some research on the bend issue. fluid flow does tend to collect on the outside radius of a pipe turn, I think, but not sure how this would effect readings.

Last edited by Nothubertjfarnsworth; 05-18-2017 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:02 PM   #7
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hmmn. looks like the o2 bungs are in the INSIDE radius from some pics I just pulled up on the internet. that would be a bad place for it, I think.

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Old 05-18-2017, 06:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothubertjfarnsworth...View Post
hmmn, I didn't catch this in bold. would still be nice to see a log, but just based on that, it doesn't seem like the tune is the problem.

I would have also said to try to clean up the signal and make sure the ground and positive are as "pure" as possible, but you've already tried this.

I'm sure there is an free-air calibration available with your wide band. I would try this as well--but I think you may have already done so.

One thing I want to ask, is if you are running a MAF sensor. I know if I run without an intake, the MAF signal isn't too smooth and it messes with the fueling, which shows up on the sensor. It ends up looking just like your gauge at idle. Running with the intake on, and it cleans up the airflow and the MAF reads just fine, and the wideband reflects this. I would imagine if this was the case, your STFT's would show that, though.

i'll do some research on the bend issue. fluid flow does tend to collect on the outside radius of a pipe turn, I think, but not sure how this would effect readings.

Just to answer a few of your questions, its an aem uego sensor that doesn't require a free air calibration. I'm not running a maf, Doing a 2 bar SD tune. I tried several power and ground locations all with the same results so just to be certain I finally ran power and ground cables directly to the battery and still got the same result so I'm not thinking its a ground loop issue. If I can't nail it down I'll be on the phone with AEM seeing if they can sort out whats up.
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:04 PM   #9
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if you check the pic above, and if your midpipes look like that, I do think that could be the cause of your problem. at least welding a new bung further up where there is straight pipe or perhaps further back past the bend, or even on the other side of the bend on the outside radius, may improve your reading a lot.
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:14 PM   #10
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thats exactly where mine are. I'd think that'd be a bad place also but the others have mentioned no problems with similar setups.
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:32 PM   #11
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mine is in the rear o2 bung on both vehicles, but it's not right smack on the inside radius of a curve like that. cookmeup has an 04, so his mids are different. betting his aren't on the inside radius, either.

it may or may not be your issue, but it's worth welding a new bung and finding out. seems like you've already went through most of your other options.
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:22 PM   #12
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the only other thing i could think of, as silly as it sounds, is the gauge is set up to display lambda as a different AFR than straight gasoline.

I don't know much about the AEM gauge or how to set it up, as i am just skimming the instruction manual now. But, let's say it's currently setup with lambda=1 displaying as 14.1 AFR (which is the stoic of E10). or with a lambda=1 at 13.8 AFR (e15).

however, this wouldn't explain how your WOT readings seem to be up to a full point off across runs, though.

the other things i would check into as possibilities is simply having a bad controller, or perhaps something wrong with the UEGO sensor harness.
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookmeup272...View Post
Also, to the point that Hubert made, it may have absolutely nothing to do with your wideband and more of a problem with your front O2's.

this is also totally possible, depending on the condition of your narrowbands. you should check o2 response on the data log, see how fast they are switching. it is possible they are just old and just starting to fail, causing the ECM to make you run a tad rich at idle, just not bad enough to throw a DTC yet.
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:24 AM   #14
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This image was taken off Maryland speed for the 04 Kooks catless mids, they show it in a much better location. I also run the AEM UEGO just as an added note.
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:20 AM   #15
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Airflow follows the outside curve of a bend. I think Hubert is right on the money: poor location.
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