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Old 03-30-2017, 08:32 AM   #31
DangerNoodle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confutatis...View Post
...build a "trouble shooting list"... ...I'd rather spend my time here on the Internet...
...when it comes to asking a lot of questions on the same subject... ...I know that rubs some people here the wrong way...
David in OH

Building a "trouble shooting list". If you search, it already exists. What rubs people the wrong way is that you probably didn't search / research before posting your questions because the questions have been asked before. That's why responses in the tech section tend to get sarcastic. Hearing the same questions with the same answers over and over.

Oh and if you get your grammar wrong...

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Old 03-30-2017, 10:11 AM   #32
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Re:

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Originally Posted by Nothubertjfarnsworth...View Post
Wait... what other threads?

Specifically? Oh, they're everywhere :-)
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Old 03-30-2017, 10:16 AM   #33
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Re:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerNoodle...View Post
Building a "trouble shooting list". If you search, it already exists. You say you spend time on the internet, but what rubs people the wrong way is that you probably didn't search / research before posting your questions. That's why responses in the tech section tend to get sarcastic. Hearing the same questions with the same answers over and over.

Oh and if you get your grammar wrong...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhOYtPzJkes

Honestly, doing searches returns usually hundreds of posts and some that have been posted a decade ago. In the end, it's faster to get the answer by posting the question instead of going through a lot of historic posts and current answers are more up to date.
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Old 03-30-2017, 10:27 AM   #34
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Since you picked you own screen name, you must start your threads with---Confutatis says:
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Old 03-30-2017, 11:35 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confutatis...View Post
Honestly, doing searches returns usually hundreds of posts and some that have been posted a decade ago. In the end, it's faster to get the answer by posting the question instead of going through a lot of historic posts and current answers are more up to date.

at least you provide some activity to an otherwise dead forum.
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Old 04-18-2017, 08:25 AM   #36
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Fuel Pump--The Update

As it turned out, the fuel pump had gone bad. I actually did this job by myself. Someone I spoke to rated the diffuclty at 4/10, but for older folks like myself with big bellies, bad backs and weak arms, I would rate it more like a 6 to 6.5. Every bolt seemed to be welded on because I imagine they had never been loosened for the car's lifetime. The strap nuts underneath were the toughest to loosen. I shouldn't have followed a video's direction that said to remove the top strap bolts inside the trunk first. That made it impossible to get leverage on the bottom nut. Along with that, I ended up breaking a fuel line retainer clip, so that slowed me down a little. Getting the old pump out and n ew one in was rather easy, as was putting it all back together. Much easier to tighten than to loosen.

Car started right up, but I'm wondering now if I made a little boo-boo when putting the float back on. I started it yesterday to get gas and the car beeped and the check engine light went on. The console displayed "Fuel Gage error. Please see dealership"--or something to that effect. The gauge sank to Empty, but then settled on a 1/4 tank. I went and filled it up, checked the code (P0463), reset it and this morning it started without any error. But I'm wondering now f when I hooked the float back on that perhaps I accidentaly touched those tiny electric "brushes", if you will, and now they may not be contacting the surface as well when the fuel gets down to a 1/4 tank. The thought of having to pull it all back out again is not a pleasant one.

David in OH
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:39 AM   #37
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Christ... on the brushes. That would suck.

Glad to see the larger issue is resolved though.

LR
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Old 04-18-2017, 10:42 AM   #38
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The strap nuts under the car do suck if they are rusted.

But the pump is easier to replace than other vehicles i've done.
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:55 AM   #39
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SMH

Led Zeppelin used to sing a song during their "Whole Lotta Love" medley called "I'm Going Down Slow", and that's how I'm starting to feel about this car.

Check Engine light popped on again this morning and suddenly it's not accelerating like it used to. It's like a cancer just spreading from one part of the car to the other.
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Old 04-19-2017, 06:58 AM   #40
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At least scan it and get the code before you drive it to the lake.
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Old 04-19-2017, 07:49 AM   #41
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:-) How about I check the code as I drive it into the lake?

It's the laughs that keep me going.

No, I'll check the code, of course. I'm starting to think the fuel pump job I just completed wasn't all so successful as I had first thought.
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:45 AM   #42
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I vote for part out.
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:21 AM   #43
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And, no, we're not playing Bingo here, but I pulled the codes when I got home yesterday:

P0171, P0174, P0131, P0151

It was a wonderful ride home without any power. At one point, I had to pull over to the emergency lane because I was slowly losing power. I shut the car off and back on and it I was finally able to give it gas that it actually used to go forward. The Fuel Gauge warning also appeared when I first turned the car on.

Anyone have a pic of a properly installed float? I'm certain someone must have one. They're as common as a picture of your kid sitting on Santa's lap.

Part out, you say? This is a battle to the death. If I lose, the only thing that's going to be left of that car is smoke from the MOAB I'm going to drop on it.
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Old 04-20-2017, 07:55 AM   #44
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What is your feul pressure at idle?

Did you touch anything else besides the feul tank/bucket/harness?

After going over all your work, checking to make sure the pump R&R went ok and verifying it isn't the issue, i would diagnose the codes as a seperate issue.

Check o2 sensor response, check the harness and wiring for the front o2 sensors.
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Old 04-20-2017, 08:06 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothubertjfarnsworth...View Post
What is your feul pressure at idle?

Did you touch anything else besides the feul tank/bucket/harness?

After going over all your work, checking to make sure the pump R&R went ok and verifying it isn't the issue, i would diagnose the codes as a seperate issue.

Check o2 sensor response, check the harness and wiring for the front o2 sensors.

I'll be renting a fuel pressure tester tonight, so that's first on the list.

The plan is to pull the tank back out and check the harness and all connections. As I mentioned in a previous post, I don't think I replaced the float properly, so I need to straighten that out.

As for the o2 sensor, how do I go about checking those for rsponses?
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:04 AM   #46
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O2 response can be checked with a scantool or a multimeter. A good scantool or a program like torque for android will have an o2 test. Otherwise just looking at the voltage for the o2 sensors will tell you. After the car is at operating temp, you should notice the o2 sensor voltage alternating between a high and low voltage. If the voltage does not budge anf stays low, either there is actually way too much oxygen in the exhaust, or the o2 sensors are bad, or there is a problem with the heater circuit, ground, or the signal wires going to the ecm.

A scantool will also report feul trims, which can also help you to diagnose what is causing the issue.
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:07 AM   #47
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Using a multimeter at the connector for the o2 sensor should rule out any circuit/electrical issues. Make sure the exhaust is good and hot so you don't have to worry too much about the heater circuit causing the issue. If the o2 is hot enough and there is enough of a differential in oxygen content between the exhaust and outside air, then it should generate voltage.
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:26 AM   #48
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This vid shows how to check if the O2 HEATER is bad. It does not check the zirconia sensor element... the general procedure i outlined above should do that. Pinouts will be different for our O2 sensors. You can probably google the pinout, or if you need me to, i can dig it up in the service manual when i get home.

https://youtu.be/7uqmYkl7t0c
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Old 04-20-2017, 01:15 PM   #49
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Ok i just messed with this on my own car.

There are 4 wires. Color depends on brand of sensor. The two identical color wires are for the heater circuit. The other two are the signal wire and ground for the zirconia element sensor. These are what you will test.

It's better to do this with a scantool and a multimeter. check O2 response with a scan tool first. If it shows the voltage cycling between ~.1-.2 low and ~.8-.9 high, then the o2's are responding fine. You have some other issue.

If no response, then check at the o2 at the connector with the car running. Have a bud monitor feul trims while you are doing this. Caution should be excercised here to not burn yourself. I did it under the car because i am an idiot, but you should be able to do it from the engine bay. The ECM will start adding feul when you disconnect the sensor because it thinks it sees a lean condition (low voltage). Or, it's doing it already... anyway. Now, what you will have here, when the o2 is disconnected, and the ECM starts adding feul to that bank, is that the volts will peg to over .900 volts. The sensor obviously works, at least to some extent.

If your feul trims for that bank are excessively positive, and voltage is low, it's probably a bad sensor.

You could have a buddy clear pending codes afterwards, since you will get a code for o2 sensor response when you unplug the sensor.
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Old 04-22-2017, 05:10 AM   #50
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did you get a chance to check, op?
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Old 04-22-2017, 05:37 AM   #51
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Just checked the fuel pressure last night with one I rented from Autozone. First off, the damn gauge would not settle at zero--instead, it sat at 8. Anyway, turned the key to the "on" position, and there was barely any movement in the gauge. Turned the car on (took some time to start) and at idle, the gauge read 32psi, far below what it should be

So did a purchase a bad pump or is the sending unit bad? I do know I have to take it all apart again, but I'm really at my wit's end.
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Old 04-22-2017, 05:41 AM   #52
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One other thing i thought of is while you are checking for o2 response with a scantool, take note of the time it takes to switch from low to high voltage (lean ro rich). it should be fairly quick. if the voltage seems to hang for some time something is likely wrong. time to check the heater circuit, or perhaps rev the engine to see if you can get the response time to shorten.

the ECM will usually throw a code if it detects the o2 not responding fast enough, though. same with low or high voltage (you are getting a low voltage code for both banks) for a prolonged period of time.

torque app has an o2 tester that comes in handy.

also, i did derp slightly in post #46. you won't see the o2 response with the sensor disconnected with a multitool. the ECM has to be switching fuel around the stoic point for that to happen, and it won't without feedback from the o2 sensor... you can still theoretically do it with a multitool, but since there needs to be that ongoing feedback loop from O2 sensor to ECM for that to happen, it's pointless and you can do it much more easily with a scan tool.
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Old 04-22-2017, 05:45 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confutatis...View Post
Just checked the fuel pressure last night with one I rented from Autozone. First off, the damn gauge would not settle at zero--instead, it sat at 8. Anyway, turned the key to the "on" position, and there was barely any movement in the gauge. Turned the car on (took some time to start) and at idle, the gauge read 32psi, far below what it should be

So did a purchase a bad pump or is the sending unit bad? I do know I have to take it all apart again, but I'm really at my wit's end.

get a different gauge. rented tools are always beat up. i would just buy a new one, they are not expensive.

if the new fuel pressure gauge still reads low, i think a common cause of low feul pressure is the pump o-ring. however, this is usually an issue with a new pump being swapped in the old bucket, i would imagine you purchased the entire bucket, so that should not be an issue.

check the harness connections, and the fuel line under the car that attaches the hard line to the tank.
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Old 04-22-2017, 06:22 AM   #54
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I didn't replace the entire harness--just the pump. I'll be out there in an hour or so to take it all apart. Are you talking about the small o-ring? I do recall replacing two.
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Old 04-22-2017, 07:40 AM   #55
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You mean you didn't replace the entire bucket?

Did you use the o-ring spacer from the old pump? Double up and use two o-rings (DW recommends doing this, although it isn't absolutely necessary).

Last edited by Nothubertjfarnsworth; 04-22-2017 at 07:42 AM.
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Old 04-22-2017, 12:19 PM   #56
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No, I only replaced the pump. And I didn't use that spacer--I never knew there was one. The fuel pump kit came with two o-rings. I replaced one in the plastic piece you have to pull off to get to the pump, and another in the harness that holds the pump where a fuel hose snaps onto. Where would the spacer be on the pump?

Everything is out now. I looked everything over with a fine toothed comb and don't see anything out of place. Wires are good, plugs are plugged in where they should be. No indication of a problem anywhere. Could it be the fuel sending unit? Could this new fuel pump be bad? Could I test the one that's in there now? I also checked lines for leakage and found nothing.

I also bought a new fuel pressure tester and re-tested the car. There was 0psi when I turned the key to ON, then only 24psi at idle.

And for information sake, the fuel pump kit I purchased was the DeatschWerks (9-652-1008) 265 LPH Compact Fuel Pump.

Last edited by confutatis; 04-22-2017 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 04-22-2017, 01:12 PM   #57
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There should be a spacer on the original pump.

Dug this up courtesy of google.

That dark plastic piece under the oring on the oem pump is the spacer.
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Old 04-22-2017, 01:13 PM   #58
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It could also just be a bum pump. I've had a DW unit go bad. It happens.
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Old 04-22-2017, 04:35 PM   #59
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Never saw it on the old pump, and there's a You Tube video out there where a guy installs one of these DWs in his GTIO and never mentioned it and a spacer was not included with the new pump.

I just bought this pump. Could it go bad so quickly? I do have pretty shitty luck with cars, but that would be pretty shitty. What about the sending unit? Is low pressure a symptom of a dying one?
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Old 04-22-2017, 05:59 PM   #60
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The spacer probably was on the old pump.

Anyway, this is straight from the DW install manual.

Two orings, and the spacer. The spacer IS NOT supplied with the DW pump.

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