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Old 04-16-2017, 05:00 AM   #1
Nogomofo
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NEW PB E.T and MPH!

After a really frustrating off season everything has come together nicely! Not a bad first outing...
New this season
New 26x10.5x15 E.T street r bias ply with tubes (I COULD USE MY two step!)
Eaton tru trac diff
King Hd rear springs , pedders xa supercar front coilovers
Monster LT1-s twin with full weight flywheel (Had a M2 with 18lb)

Results: 11.463 @124.91 mph!


The other big plus was the car showed some consistency. Leaving at 4k off the two step resulted in a 1.67 60ft with several others between that and 1.72.
It ran low 11.5's all day once the epic air went away.
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Old 04-16-2017, 05:27 AM   #2
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Nice. Congrats!
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Old 04-16-2017, 05:51 PM   #3
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Congrats. That's some screaming mph for an NA LS2. Details on your setup?

If you work on that 60', I'd think 10's are definitely possible. What pressure were you running in the tires? Did it bog after the launch or spin for a second or so?
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Old 04-16-2017, 05:54 PM   #4
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Very nice
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Old 04-16-2017, 06:24 PM   #5
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nice times!

now it's time for a rollbar and lower times.
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Old 04-16-2017, 06:25 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSAE_Junkie...View Post
Congrats. That's some screaming mph for an NA LS2. Details on your setup?

If you work on that 60', I'd think 10's are definitely possible. What pressure were you running in the tires? Did it bog after the launch or spin for a second or so?



i am surprised his 60's are what they are for using bias. My 60's were slightly worse running practically the same time and I stubbornly used drag radials.

I wonder if it's just track prep? or a little too quick with the sidestep?
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Old 04-16-2017, 06:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothubertjfarnsworth...View Post


i am surprised his 60's are what they are for using bias. My 60's were slightly worse running practically the same time and I stubbornly used drag radials.

I wonder if it's just track prep? or a little too quick with the sidestep?

It's hard to say, that's why I was curious to hear OP's thoughts on the launch. I feel like with that amount of power and the right tire, 1.5x should be attainable. But it's certainly not easy or guaranteed. I spent the latter half of one summer trying to figure out how to launch a cam-only car on ET Drag bias plys and still never completely figured it out. I was launching closer to 6k rpm, but was also spinning the tires pretty hard for about the first 1.0 seconds. I know I could have probably done better slipping the clutch a little bit more or maybe even launching at a lower rpm.

In this case, I wonder if more launch RPM would have helped?
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Old 04-16-2017, 06:48 PM   #8
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so many variables with a manual trans.

tire psi, weather, track temp, level of prep, type of traction compound sprayed on the track, pre-existing rubber on the track, compound of the tire, clutch friction/holding power, engagement time, engagement progression, rpm at launch, throttle applied during clutch engagement...

i've been saying to myself for a year that i'm better off getting an automatic with a stall.
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Old 04-17-2017, 03:51 AM   #9
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I need to work on slipping the clutch. I release it pretty quick . Each launch has some spin leaving at 4k off of the two step. The MPH came from a -400 da that pass. It traps in the 123 range on a normal day.
The tires were at 15 psi . I see they might have the potential to take more RPM not using the two step.
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Old 04-17-2017, 04:07 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSAE_Junkie...View Post
Congrats. That's some screaming mph for an NA LS2. Details on your setup?

If you work on that 60', I'd think 10's are definitely possible. What pressure were you running in the tires? Did it bog after the launch or spin for a second or so?

I think 11.2s is about all it has with the manual trans and the current weight.
The engine has "junk" prc as cast 225s ,11.47 ish compression, edc cam 231/239 , fast 102 (port matched) ls3 injectors, maf, stock tb, 1 3/4 dynatech headers,3" cattless mids to 2.5" borla exhaust . Ati damper (no underdrive) manton pushrods, morel lifters
Really nothing special
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Old 04-17-2017, 05:32 AM   #11
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How much does your car weigh?
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Old 04-17-2017, 05:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothubertjfarnsworth...View Post
How much does your car weigh?

I need to weigh it again but right around 3600 race weight
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Old 04-17-2017, 03:14 PM   #13
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I need to weigh it again but right around 3600 race weight

Race weight = with you in it?
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Old 04-17-2017, 04:15 PM   #14
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Didn't you used to run 27-11.5- 15 qtp's?
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Old 04-17-2017, 05:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothubertjfarnsworth...View Post
Race weight = with you in it?

Yeah. I'm pretty sure I was 3650 the last time I hit the track scale before I got front the coilovers.
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Old 04-17-2017, 05:31 PM   #16
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Didn't you used to run 27-11.5- 15 qtp's?

26x11.5xqtp
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Old 04-17-2017, 07:15 PM   #17
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nice,congratulations you still got more in it with those 60's.
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Old 04-17-2017, 07:38 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogomofo...View Post
I think 11.2s is about all it has with the manual trans and the current weight.
The engine has "junk" prc as cast 225s ,11.47 ish compression, edc cam 231/239 , fast 102 (port matched) ls3 injectors, maf, stock tb, 1 3/4 dynatech headers,3" cattless mids to 2.5" borla exhaust . Ati damper (no underdrive) manton pushrods, morel lifters
Really nothing special

Well, I wouldn't be so sure that 10's are out of reach in similar air. When I had a manual trans gto and frequented the drag strip, I spent A LOT of time analyzing each pass. I also specialize in modeling complex physical systems and so I naturally applied this to vehicle dynamics simulations - specifically tractive effort simulation (quarter mile prediction).

This was a comparison I put together between my fastest pass in my cam-only GTO. It was an 11.9 @ 116 mph on a 1.68 60'. Using my dyno curve, and matching the shift RPM and shift time in the model to what I actually pulled off at the strip, this was the match I achieved. For the same 60', my model predicted an 11.87 instead of an 11.9x, but I was pretty happy with it.


Now, if I take my same GTO model and just put a scaler on my dyno curve match your mph and 60' (124.5 mph and 1.72s), I predict the following (shown next to my 11.9 run just for reference)



This shows an 11.34 @ 124.5 mph. It has a 7.35 1/8 mile and a 4.81 330' time which I believe are also pretty close your time slip. The 1/4 ET is off by about a tenth, but there are also a lot of variables with manual trans cars. Your shift rpm and shift speed could make a pretty big difference as would the actual rolling diameter of your specific tire at the air pressure you were running. Anyways, my point being that I have a model that captures your cars performance pretty well. I did this because i was curious what 60' you would have to pull to drop the ET from 11.46 to 10.99 (or 10.87 in my model) - assuming you had the same air and shifted roughly the same.

To get that 0.47s ET drop, you'd have to run a 1.47 - 1.48 60'. This is a little bit quicker than what I had initially thought, but it isn't completely absurd either. I know my goal was to get into the 1.4's with a manual trans back when I had my first car.

Anyways, hope you found that interesting.
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:03 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSAE_Junkie...View Post

Anyways, hope you found that interesting.

That was great! The next tune session I'll try a few more things like more RPM and more clutch slip.
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Old 04-19-2017, 07:08 AM   #20
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Awesome!!
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:33 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSAE_Junkie...View Post
Well, I wouldn't be so sure that 10's are out of reach in similar air. When I had a manual trans gto and frequented the drag strip, I spent A LOT of time analyzing each pass. I also specialize in modeling complex physical systems and so I naturally applied this to vehicle dynamics simulations - specifically tractive effort simulation (quarter mile prediction).

This was a comparison I put together between my fastest pass in my cam-only GTO. It was an 11.9 @ 116 mph on a 1.68 60'. Using my dyno curve, and matching the shift RPM and shift time in the model to what I actually pulled off at the strip, this was the match I achieved. For the same 60', my model predicted an 11.87 instead of an 11.9x, but I was pretty happy with it.


Now, if I take my same GTO model and just put a scaler on my dyno curve match your mph and 60' (124.5 mph and 1.72s), I predict the following (shown next to my 11.9 run just for reference)



This shows an 11.34 @ 124.5 mph. It has a 7.35 1/8 mile and a 4.81 330' time which I believe are also pretty close your time slip. The 1/4 ET is off by about a tenth, but there are also a lot of variables with manual trans cars. Your shift rpm and shift speed could make a pretty big difference as would the actual rolling diameter of your specific tire at the air pressure you were running. Anyways, my point being that I have a model that captures your cars performance pretty well. I did this because i was curious what 60' you would have to pull to drop the ET from 11.46 to 10.99 (or 10.87 in my model) - assuming you had the same air and shifted roughly the same.

To get that 0.47s ET drop, you'd have to run a 1.47 - 1.48 60'. This is a little bit quicker than what I had initially thought, but it isn't completely absurd either. I know my goal was to get into the 1.4's with a manual trans back when I had my first car.

Anyways, hope you found that interesting.

I know did.

back in '14 i ran an11.46 myself, albiet with a lower trap. My car weighed roughly 100 lbs less than nogomofos at the time... however, i think nogomofo does run 3.91's, which did give him a nice bump in mph.

I've ran quite a number of sims in cartest with a model that closely replicates my timeslips, then have tweaked various things to try to simulate using bias ply while incorporating tire growth (i currently run drag radials with an M6), auto swap with various stalls/torque multiplications, rear end ratios, etc. 10.9x is totally possible, but you're gonna need to do more than just pray for a sub 1.5 60'. This is a GTO we are talking here.

OP we both gotta ditch more weight, add a little more power, find ways to shift faster and modulate the clutch on launch.

I've added an EWP and a vac pump system. Might only equate to an extra 5-10 whp, but it's better than having to swap cams/heads or resorting to using cheater juice. I have reduced weight by another 100 lbs or so (50-60 of this was ballast, something i realized i didn't really need later on) and have a few plans to reduce this even further without affecting asthetics too much. I need to find a way to offset the weight of a rollbar/cage as well...

Last edited by Nothubertjfarnsworth; 04-19-2017 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:33 AM   #22
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nice runs.

getting to the 1.5's is tough with stick GTO from what I have tried.
I think the tires and clutches most run wouldn't allow the 1.4's to happen
wider than 11.5" tire and a clutch that is wicked like a sintered iron disc adjustable might work.
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:37 AM   #23
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nice runs.

getting to the 1.5's is tough with stick GTO from what I have tried.
I think the tires and clutches most run wouldn't allow the 1.4's to happen
wider than 11.5" tire and a clutch that is wicked like a sintered iron disc adjustable might work.

Sintered iron clutches ain't cheap doe...
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:41 AM   #24
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Adjusting them just right doesn't sound like to much fun, either.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:19 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothubertjfarnsworth...View Post
I need to find a way to offset the weight of a rollbar/cage as well...

The cage weight part sucks! My guess is 80lbs for a 5 point. I like the idea of an electric water pump and I'm curious if you have good luck with the vacuum pump on a stock shortblock. Keep me posted
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:26 PM   #26
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Hptuners logs show a bit of loss in 60-100 time with the two mods. You have to be willing to pull enough vacuum with the pump. 13-15 in Hg i think is where people report starting to see gains on a stock shortblock.

EWP's and vac pump setups tend to not be cheap for LS motors, though.
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Old 04-19-2017, 07:34 PM   #27
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Congrats! Just keep pluggin' away, man. You'll eventually get there. (That's what everybody and his brother kept telling me, lol.)
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Old 04-20-2017, 03:22 PM   #28
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Very nice!! Congrats.
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Old 04-20-2017, 05:11 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothubertjfarnsworth...View Post
Hptuners logs show a bit of loss in 60-100 time with the two mods. You have to be willing to pull enough vacuum with the pump. 13-15 in Hg i think is where people report starting to see gains on a stock shortblock.

EWP's and vac pump setups tend to not be cheap for LS motors, though.

Hmm, one more possible purchase that'll piss the little lady off!

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Originally Posted by Rob...View Post
Nice. Congrats!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FSAE_Junkie...View Post
Congrats. That's some screaming mph for an NA LS2. Details on your setup?

If you work on that 60', I'd think 10's are definitely possible. What pressure were you running in the tires? Did it bog after the launch or spin for a second or so?

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Originally Posted by wrp...View Post
Very nice

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Originally Posted by Nothubertjfarnsworth...View Post
nice times!

now it's time for a rollbar and lower times.

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Originally Posted by Radio...View Post
Awesome!!

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Originally Posted by A_VAS...View Post
nice runs.

getting to the 1.5's is tough with stick GTO from what I have tried.
I think the tires and clutches most run wouldn't allow the 1.4's to happen
wider than 11.5" tire and a clutch that is wicked like a sintered iron disc adjustable might work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PonchoHoncho...View Post
Congrats! Just keep pluggin' away, man. You'll eventually get there. (That's what everybody and his brother kept telling me, lol.)

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Originally Posted by ZOOMballs...View Post
Very nice!! Congrats.

THANKS EVERYBODY! All of you guys have helped in some way to get me this far. I'll keep pushing!
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:18 PM   #30
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You might be able to peice both together.

If you can find a meziere ewp body cheap i would go that way and buy a new center section. Might be more expensive than a used one but at least the part that counts is warrantied.

As for the pump, possible to cobble a kit together. Main parts you will neeed is the pump, gilmer drive tensioner pulley, and the pump gilmer pulley. Easiest and best setup with the LS. Any brackets, spacers, catch can, hose, fittings, etc. you might be able to make yourself or buy cheaply.

You're going to need a vacuum control valve and vacuum guage, too.
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