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Old 06-08-2017, 10:58 AM   #1
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my '05 is acting weird after the battery went dead

Last winter I was unable to get my GTO out of my shop due to driveway conditions and when it finally dried out the battery was dead. I disconnected both cables and used a trickle charger to get the battery up again but now i have three different things happening (well 4 counting the times it starts and runs like it should)

1: starter clicks like the battery is dead. turn it off, open and close the door and it may do that again or it may start

2: Engine check runs, get a flashed messaged that the ABS has a problem but this goes by too fast to read, car starts and runs great.

3: car starts, traction control is off and it will not turn back on. This is a problem in the rain as it's running very strong and i don't have all season tires

I need recommendations. Since I've trickle charge it several times when I got the click of number one I don't think that is going to reset it. Any advise is appreciated
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Old 06-08-2017, 11:15 AM   #2
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Traction control can't function without ABS...fix 2 and that will take care of 3.

1 sounds like either the battery is almost dead, you have a bad connection, or the starter is on it's way out. A good test is to turn the headlights on and then turn the car over. If the lights dim, then you know something is making you lose current. If the lights stay bright, more than likely the starter motor itself is going bad. Just because you charged the battery, doesn't mean all 6 cells are still good. You can have a bad cell, and not discharge the working current you need to do some work.

Pull the codes for the ABS. Quickest way to get to a resolution.
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Old 06-08-2017, 11:16 AM   #3
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I could be wrong but to me it sure sounds like a bad ground somewhere, Have you verified the battery voltage,Not just charge it but did you check it?
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Old 06-08-2017, 11:17 AM   #4
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I'd check the battery voltage with a multi meter first. I also depends what kind of battery you have, once a battery loses charge it begins to sulfonate, which is lead sulfate crystals on the plates. These crystals are insulators and will not allow the battery to get a full charge and will eventually lead to the battery's death. The battery may have enough juice to start the car, but our cars are really picky to voltage. Finally it might be time to bite the bullet and get a new battery. Oh and check your terminals and cables to make sure they are super clean
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Old 06-08-2017, 11:38 AM   #5
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For a seriously discharged battery a trickle charger is not the best idea. You need to put a high amperage proper battery charger on it. If the issues persist, you likely have a battery that has gone bye-bye. If it was too discharged, you might not be able to bring it back. These cars should ALWAYS be on a trickle charger or battery minder if they are going to be parked for more than a couple of weeks. Or at least disconnect the battery.
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Old 06-08-2017, 11:45 AM   #6
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i concur with the rest of these blokes. your battery is probably toast. check the open-circuit voltage of the battery after it's been sitting for about 8 hours or so. for a healthy battery, it should be 12.6-12.7 or above. tired, in the mid 12's. if it's less than 12.5 or 12.4 then it's a core for a new one.
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Old 06-08-2017, 12:01 PM   #7
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Thanks, I'll check all that as soon as I get in tonight
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Old 06-15-2017, 04:27 PM   #8
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Well after I replaced the battery it fired right up but a few days later the check engine light came on and when I pulled the code the only thing I had was a P0335 indicating that the crankshaft position A sensor is malfunctioning
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Old 06-15-2017, 06:25 PM   #9
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Well at least your first problem is fixed.
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:16 PM   #10
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ABS / traction still out?

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Old 06-16-2017, 02:38 AM   #11
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Traction control and ABS are working now. I did some searching and I'm even more puzzled since if it's a real problem with the crankshaft location sensor it shouldn't run or run badly and it's running fine
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Old 06-16-2017, 04:16 AM   #12
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Do a basic electrical systems check, cables/grounding, battery voltage when engine is both running, not running, etc. Also check the BCM for wires getting worn through near the glovebox.
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Old 06-16-2017, 04:29 AM   #13
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Concerning the crank position sensor code, try disconnecting the battery for 10 minutes and reconnect and fire it up and see if the code persists. Disconnecting the battery will reset the computer.

Well hold on, if you can read the code can you clear the code with your code reader? If so, just clear the code and see if it comes back. Clearing the codes is the same as the battery disconnect mentioned above.
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Old 06-16-2017, 07:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich-Tripower...View Post
Concerning the crank position sensor code, try disconnecting the battery for 10 minutes and reconnect and fire it up and see if the code persists. Disconnecting the battery will reset the computer.

Well hold on, if you can read the code can you clear the code with your code reader? If so, just clear the code and see if it comes back. Clearing the codes is the same as the battery disconnect mentioned above.

I didn't think of that, I'll try clearing the code and see what happens.
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:11 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Soldier...View Post
Traction control and ABS are working now. I did some searching and I'm even more puzzled since if it's a real problem with the crankshaft location sensor it shouldn't run or run badly and it's running fine

Not necessarily.
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:21 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnie the Goat...View Post
Diagram & connector view:



Testing:
DTC P0335

CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION
The crankshaft position (CKP) sensor signal indicates the crankshaft speed and position. The CKP sensor circuits are connected directly to the engine control module (ECM) and consists of the following circuits:

* The 12-volt reference circuit
* The low reference circuit
* The CKP sensor signal circuit

If the ECM detects that there is no signal from the CKP sensor for 3 seconds , DTC P0335 sets.

DTC DESCRIPTOR
This diagnostic procedure supports the following DTC:
DTC P0335 Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor Circuit

CONDITIONS FOR RUNNING THE DTC

* DTCs P0101, P0102, P0103, P0341, P0342, or P0343 are not set.
* The camshaft position (CMP) sensor signal is incrementing.
* The mass air flow (MAF) is more than 5 g/s .
* The engine is cranking or running.
* DTC P0335 runs continuously when the above conditions are met.

CONDITIONS FOR SETTING THE DTC
The ECM detects that there is no signal from the CKP sensor for 3 seconds .

ACTION TAKEN WHEN THE DTC SETS

* The control module illuminates the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) on the second consecutive ignition cycle that the diagnostic runs and fails.
* The control module records the operating conditions at the time the diagnostic fails. The first time the diagnostic fails, the control module stores this information in the Failure Records. If the diagnostic reports a failure on the second consecutive ignition cycle, the control module records the operating conditions at the time of the failure. The control module writes the operating conditions to the Freeze Frame and updates the Failure Records.

CONDITIONS FOR CLEARING THE MIL/DTC

* The control module turns OFF the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) after 3 consecutive ignition cycles that the diagnostic runs and does not fail.
* A current DTC, Last Test Failed, clears when the diagnostic runs and passes.
* A history DTC clears after 40 consecutive warm-up cycles, if no failures are reported by this or any other emission related diagnostic.
* Clear the MIL and the DTC with a scan tool.

Piinpoint tests:




P0335 P0336 P0337 P0338 P0339 P0340 P0341 P0342 P0343 P0344 CMP CKP CRANK SENSOR CAM SENSOR CRANK POSITION SENSOR CAM POSITION SENSOR CRANK NO START


Last edited by Nothubertjfarnsworth; 06-16-2017 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:25 PM   #17
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I can't cut and paste for crap.

I'll see if i can find the intermittent conditions procedure in my pdf manual. My ither manual is at home and i won't be back for some time.

Last edited by Nothubertjfarnsworth; 06-16-2017 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:36 PM   #18
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http://www.autocats.ws/manual/chevro...161319.en.html

Not for a GTO but from a GM service manual. Principles still apply.

Quote:
Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections
Special Tools

EL-35616 Terminal Test Probe Kit
For equivalent regional tools, refer to Special Tools .
When the condition is not currently present, but is indicated in DTC history, the cause may be intermittent. An intermittent may also be the cause when there is a customer complaint, but the symptom cannot be duplicated. Refer to the Symptom Table of the system that is suspect of causing the condition before trying to locate an intermittent condition.
Most intermittent conditions are caused by faulty electrical connections or wiring. Inspect for the following items:
• Wiring broken inside the insulation
• Poor connection between the male and female terminal at a connector
• Poor terminal to wire connection - Some conditions that fall under this description are poor crimps, poor soldered joints, crimping over the wire insulation rather than the wire itself, and corrosion in the wire to terminal contact area, etc.
• Pierced or damaged insulation can allow moisture to enter the wiring causing corrosion. The conductor can corrode inside the insulation, with little visible evidence. Look for swollen and stiff sections of wire in the suspect circuits.
• Wiring which has been pinched, cut, or its insulation rubbed through may cause an intermittent open or short as the bare area touches other wiring or parts of the vehicle.
• Wiring that comes in contact with hot or exhaust components
• Refer to Inducing Intermittent Fault Conditions in order to duplicate the conditions required, in order to verify the customer concern.
• Refer to Testing for Electrical Intermittents for test procedures to detect intermittent open, high resistance, short to ground, and short to voltage conditions.
• Refer to Scan Tool Snapshot Procedure for advanced intermittent diagnosis and Vehicle Data Recorder operation.

Testing for Terminal Fretting

Some intermittent conditions can be caused by wire terminal fretting corrosion. Fretting corrosion is a build-up of insulating, oxidised wear debris that can form when there is a small motion between electrical contacts. The oxidised wear debris can pile up enough at the electrical contact spots that the electrical resistance across the connection increases. Movement between the contacting surfaces as small as 10 to 100 microns can cause fretting. To put this in perspective, a sheet of paper is about 100 microns thick, so fretting motion is small and hard to see. Vibration and thermal expansion/contraction are the main sources that create fretting motion. Since vehicles vibrate and can experience large temperature swings, they are a good source for fretting motion. Tin, copper, nickel, and iron surfaces are all susceptible to fretting corrosion. Fretting corrosion can be difficult to see but it looks like small, dark smudges on the terminals contact surface.
To correct a fretting condition disconnect the suspect connector and add Nyogel lubricant 760G (dielectric grease) to both sides of the connector terminals. Then reconnect the connector and wipe away any excess lubricant. This will correct the additional terminal contact resistance due to the terminal fretting corrosion.

Testing for Proper Terminal Contact

It is important to test terminal contact at the component and any inline connectors before replacing a suspect component. Mating terminals must be inspected to ensure good terminal contact. A poor connection between the male and female terminal at a connector may be the result of contamination or deformation.
Contamination may be caused by the connector halves being improperly connected. A missing or damaged connector seal, damage to the connector itself, or exposing the terminals to moisture and dirt can also cause contamination. Contamination, usually in the underhood or underbody connectors, leads to terminal corrosion, causing an open circuit or intermittently open circuit.
Deformation is caused by probing the mating side of a connector terminal without the proper adapter. Always use the EL-35616 kit when probing connectors. Other causes of terminal deformation are improperly joining the connector halves, or repeatedly separating and joining the connector halves. Deformation, usually to the female terminal contact tab, can result in poor terminal contact causing an open or intermittently open circuit.

Testing for Proper Terminal Contact in Bussed Electrical Centres

It is very important to use the correct test adapter when testing for proper terminal contact of fuses and relays in a bussed electrical centre. Use the EL-35616 kit to test for proper terminal contact. Failure to use the EL-35616 kit can result in improper diagnosis of the bussed electrical centre.
Follow the procedure below in order to test terminal contact:
Separate the connector halves.
Visually inspect the connector halves for contamination. Contamination may result in a white or green build-up within the connector body or between terminals. This causes high terminal resistance, intermittent contact, or an open circuit. An underbonnet or underbody connector that shows signs of contamination should be replaced in its entirety: terminals, seals, and connector body.
Using an equivalent male terminal/terminated lead, verify that the retention force is significantly different between a known good terminal and the suspect terminal. Replace the female terminal in question.

Flat Wire Connectors

There are no serviceable parts for flat wire connectors on the harness side or the component side.
Follow the procedure below in order to test terminal contact:
Remove the component in question.
Visually inspect each side of the connector for signs of contamination. Avoid touching either side of the connector as oil from your skin may be a source of contamination as well.
Visually inspect the terminal bearing surfaces of the flat wire circuits for splits, cracks, or other imperfections that could cause poor terminal contact. Visually inspect the component side connector to ensure that all of the terminals are uniform and free of damage or deformation.
Insert the appropriate adaptor into the flat wire harness connector in order to test the circuit in question.

Control Module/Component Voltage and Grounds

Poor voltage or ground connections can cause widely varying symptoms.
• Test all control module voltage supply circuits. Many vehicles have multiple circuits supplying voltage to a control module. Other components in the system may have separate voltage supply circuits that may also need to be tested. Inspect connections at the module/component connectors, fuses, and any intermediate connections between the voltage source and the module/component. A test lamp or a DMM may indicate that voltage is present, but neither tests the ability of the circuit to carry sufficient current. Operate the component to test the ability of the circuit to carry sufficient current. Refer to Circuit Testing and Power Distribution Schematics .
• Test all control module ground and system ground circuits. The control module may have multiple ground circuits. Other components in the system may have separate grounds that may also need to be tested. Inspect grounds for clean and tight connections at the grounding point. Inspect the connections at the component and in splice packs, where applicable. Operate the component to test the ability of the circuit to carry sufficient current. Refer to Circuit Testing and Ground Distribution Schematics .

Temperature Sensitivity

• An intermittent condition may occur when a component/connection reaches normal operating temperature. The condition may occur only when the component/connection is cold, or only when the component/connection is hot.
• Freeze Frame, Failure Records, Snapshot, or Vehicle Data Recorder data may help with this type of intermittent condition, where applicable.
• If the intermittent is related to heat, review the data for a relationship with the following:
- High ambient temperatures
- Underbonnet/engine generated heat
- Circuit generated heat due to a poor connection, or high electrical load
- Higher than normal load conditions, towing, etc.
• If the intermittent is related to cold, review the data for the following:
- Low ambient temperatures - In extremely low temperatures, ice may form in a connection or component. Inspect for water intrusion.
- The condition only occurs on a cold start.
- The condition goes away when the vehicle warms up.
• Information from the customer may help to determine if the trouble follows a pattern that is temperature related.
• If temperature is suspected of causing an intermittent fault condition, attempt to duplicate the condition. Refer to Inducing Intermittent Fault Conditions in order to duplicate the conditions required.

Electromagnetic Interference and Electrical Noise

Some electrical components/circuits are sensitive to electromagnetic interference or other types of electrical noise. Inspect for the following conditions:
• A mis-routed harness that is too close to high voltage/high current devices such as secondary ignition components, motors, alternator etc. -- These components may induce electrical noise on a circuit that could interfere with normal circuit operation.
• Electrical system interference caused by a malfunctioning relay, or a control module driven solenoid or switch - These conditions can cause a sharp electrical surge. Normally, the condition will occur when the malfunctioning component is operating.
• Improper installation of non-factory or aftermarket add on accessories such as lights, 2-way radios, amplifiers, electric motors, remote starters, alarm systems, mobile phones, etc. - These accessories may create interference in other circuits while operating and the interference would disappear when the accessory is not operating. Refer to Checking Aftermarket Accessories .
• Test for an open diode across the A/C compressor clutch and for other open diodes. Some relays may contain a clamping diode.
• The generator may be allowing AC noise into the electrical system.

Incorrect Control Module

• There are only a few situations where reprogramming a control module is appropriate:
- A new service control module is installed.
- A control module from another vehicle is installed.
- Revised software/calibration files have been released for this vehicle.
Note: DO NOT re-program the control module with the SAME software/calibration files that are already present in the control module. This is not an effective repair for any type of concern.
• Verify that the control module contains the correct software/calibration. If incorrect programming is found, reprogramme the control module with the most current software/calibration. Refer to Control Module References for replacement, setup, and programming.


Last edited by Nothubertjfarnsworth; 06-16-2017 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 06-16-2017, 02:58 PM   #19
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That gives me a lot more to work with. Hopefully I'll have a productive Saturday and if not get it fixed then get it to the point where I can fix it
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Old 06-16-2017, 05:40 PM   #20
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Looking back, i really wished i had spent the money on a service manual right when i bought the car back in 2006. Indispensable.
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Old 06-17-2017, 04:49 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothubertjfarnsworth...View Post
Looking back, i really wished i had spent the money on a service manual right when i bought the car back in 2006. Indispensable.

They pop up here and on ebay fairly regularly. They can be very helpful even though they contain a few errors here and there (like how to fill the manual transmission with fluid).
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Old 06-17-2017, 07:17 AM   #22
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I should get a hard copy. The old SI CD from 2005 is pretty close, i think. As i am discovering, the PDF version isn't all that great.
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Old 06-17-2017, 08:19 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothubertjfarnsworth...View Post
I should get a hard copy. The old SI CD from 2005 is pretty close, i think. As i am discovering, the PDF version isn't all that great.

I have the SI CD too, it is harder to use than the trusty paper copy. At least for me.
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