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Old 02-06-2008, 10:32 AM   #1
cornbread
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Question UPDATED: '06 Throttle Position Relearn- How?

Has anyone "relearned" the throttle position of the drive by wire throttle body in the 05-06's? I ported my TB this past weekend and I threw a code after a WOT run this morning (tuner is at home so I'm not sure of which code). I was careful not to port any area where the blade sits at idle, and I did not bang the TB around, so I'm thinking it's not dead. I'm going to check to make sure its not binding and clean it one more time, but I'm thinking it's the TPS not being synchronized with the Throttle peddle.

Does disconnecting the battery accomplish the same thing as "relearning" the throttle position, or are the two tasks synonymous? In other words, I have heard of service departments relearning the throttle position of the TPS, so is there a procedure to do this or is the procedure simply to disconnect the battery for a few minutes? Do I need to pull a fuse? Any other tricks I should try?

I'll update this with the codes as soon as I get home, just wanted to get some information beforehand.

UPDATED: See post #11
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Last edited by cornbread; 02-07-2008 at 04:43 AM.
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:34 AM   #2
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hmmmm
i dont know how its done on the ls2's, but with the ls1 drive by cable, you loosen the TPS sensor, and rotate it and log the millivolts through a scan tool, until its within the right range.

BTW whats the code.
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:49 AM   #3
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Don't have my handheld tuner with me, its at home.

As soon as I get home I update with the codes.
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:05 AM   #4
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Im not sure how you would do it. Seems like I read somewhere you definately do not want to open the tb where the electronics are at. Other than that theres no sensors that I know of to fool with.
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:15 AM   #5
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Im not sure if the procedure is the same for 05-06's but here's how you do it with 04's. Actually i doubt it is since the throttle bodys are different, but here it is anyways....

Idle Learn Procedure
Automatic Transmission
The idle learn procedure is required when the following service procedures have been performed:

The battery power to the PCM has been disconnected.
The PCM has been programmed.
The PCM is replaced
Install a scan tool.
Diagnose and repair any DTCs before proceeding with this procedure. Refer to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List for the applicable DTC that set.
Ensure that all electrical loads and accessories are OFF.
Turn OFF the air conditioning (A/C).
Ensure that the vehicle is in PARK.
Set the parking brake and block the drive wheels.
Turn ON the ignition.
Clear the DTC information with the scan tool.
Wait 5 seconds and start the engine.
Run the engine at idle.
Place the vehicle in DRIVE and let the engine idle for 10 minutes.
Turn ON the A/C and continue to idle the vehicle in DRIVE for 10 minutes.
Place the vehicle in PARK and let the engine idle for 10 minutes.
Turn OFF the A/C and continue to idle the vehicle in PARK for 10 minutes.
Turn OFF the ignition for 30 seconds.
Perform the powertrain on-board diagnostic system check. Refer to Diagnostic System Check - Engine Controls .
The idle learn procedure is complete.
Manual Transmission
The idle learn procedure is required when the following service procedures have been performed:

The battery power to the PCM has been disconnected.
The PCM has been programmed.
The PCM is replaced
Install a scan tool.
Diagnose and repair any DTCs before proceeding with this procedure. Refer to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List for the applicable DTC that set.
Ensure that all electrical loads and accessories are OFF.
Turn OFF the air conditioning (A/C).
Ensure that the vehicle is in NEUTRAL.
Set the parking brake and block the drive wheels.
Turn ON the ignition.
Clear the DTC information with the scan tool.
Wait 5 seconds and start the engine.
Run the engine at idle.
Turn ON the A/C and idle the vehicle in NEUTRAL for 10 minutes.
Turn OFF the A/C and continue to idle the vehicle for 10 minutes.
Turn OFF the ignition for 30 seconds.
Perform the powertrain on-board diagnostic system check. Refer to Diagnostic System Check - Engine Controls .
The idle learn procedure is complete.
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:25 AM   #6
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All the reading I did said that there is a Throttle Peddle position sensor and a Throttle Blade position sensor. Supposedly those two have to be within a certain voltage % of each other or you'll get a CEL.

From CHarris @ LS2Portworks.com:
Quote:
Did you disconnect your battery during the swap? You should have. Just disconnect your battery for a little while and reconnect and see if it clears. It should. As I understand it your pcm remembers the old idle throttle % and the new one won't match... so it trips the error.

Thank MyGoatBites for that pearl!

From the GTO Service DVD (posted in a different thread):

Quote:
The throttle position (TP) sensors 1 and 2 are located within the throttle body assembly. The TP sensors share a common 5-volt reference circuit and a common low reference circuit. The 5-volt reference circuit is also shared with the accelerator pedal position (APP) sensor 2. The 5-volt reference voltage is supplied on 2 separate engine control module (ECM) terminals, but the terminals are connected internally to the same voltage supply. Each TP sensor has an individual signal circuit, which provides the ECM with a signal voltage proportional to throttle the plate movement. When the throttle plate is in the closed position, the TP sensor 1 signal voltage is near the low reference and increases as the throttle plate is opened. The TP sensor 2 signal voltage at closed throttle is near the 5-volt reference and decreases as the throttle plate is opened. If the ECM detects that the TP sensors are not within a predicted value from each other, DTC P2135 sets.

Like I said, I have read where people have taken their Goats into the service department and had the TPS "relearned". I'm curious as to how this is accomplished, or if simply disconnecting the - battery terminal for a few minutes will suffice.
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:28 AM   #7
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if someone can verify the procedure i copied from my service manual will work on the 05-06's do that. Im pretty sure just the battery disconnected doesnt reset the TPS.
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Old 02-06-2008, 06:36 PM   #8
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First, check if there's a TPS on LS2s. I always thought the drive-by-wire assembly acts like the TPS.
Hopefully an expert will chime in soon. Good luck.
JC
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Old 02-06-2008, 06:49 PM   #9
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There's no external TPS as with a cable throttle, it's part of the TB assembly.
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Old 02-06-2008, 08:25 PM   #10
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Just do the easy thing first.

Disconnect your negative battery cable for a few minutes and reconnect. Then start the car and see what happens. You would probably need to drive it for a little while to set the code.

In early porting experiments I found it would sometimes take several idle periods to trip. Lots of stop signs and/or traffic lights make it easy.
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:42 AM   #11
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OK, update:

Got home and pulled the codes. P0121 and P2119, both of which have to do with the Throttle position. I pulled my - battery cable then removed my TB for a close inspection.

Upon removal I saw where the blade (which I removed while porting) was binding on the rearward swing. There's about 10 of reward swing on these TB and I did not check initially. I did check the 90 forward swing and it was clear with no binding. You could physically see a scuff mark where the blade had been rubbing.

The Fix:

I loosened the two screws securing the blade to the shaft and repositioned the blade within the TB opening. This was no short task due to the amount of slop the holes in the blade allow. I finally ended up doubling up a sheet of paper and inserting it at the top (where it was binding), then tightening the screws down. This worked perfectly and now my blade moves freely. After all of that, I removed the screws one at a time to put more Loctite on them.

Drove it to work this morning with no issues.
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:12 AM   #12
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Glad to hear it appears to be okay now.

Something funny... not so much funny as odd... is that probably 75% of the factory TB's that come through my shop show signs of blade rub in the bore. Apparently a certain amount of "self clearancing" takes place from the factory... Yikes!


To everyone else- if you must modify your DBW Throttle Body... DON'T remove the blade!
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Old 02-07-2008, 10:48 AM   #13
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Is it a clearance issue (like what I experienced) or a calibration issue that makes blade removal a no-no? Just wondering.

I will say, turning the shaft to inset the blade after is was knife-edged was a pain (literally). I have a cut on my finger from the sharp edge on the shaft (where the blade slides in).
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Old 02-07-2008, 11:50 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cornbread...View Post
Is it a clearance issue (like what I experienced) or a calibration issue that makes blade removal a no-no? Just wondering.

I will say, turning the shaft to inset the blade after is was knife-edged was a pain (literally). I have a cut on my finger from the sharp edge on the shaft (where the blade slides in).

There is no way to alter the calibration. Best to not remove the blade at all, because most people will not be able to get the blade recentered properly.
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