Another handgun thread.... What should I buy?

So I'm working on that list you make as a kid..... You know, the list of all the things you're gonna have when you grow up?

Well anyway, I'm at "handgun" now so I've been looking around.

Why do I want it? Well, I just want a handgun I guess.... Also for home protection, although I seriously doubt I'd ever need it for that. Plus I'd love to go to the range.

I read just about every gun thread on this forum and I've done a decent amount of research. I know there are lots of gun forums, but they seem to be a bit biased (for example, what answer do you think I'll get at "Sigforum.com?"), so I'm here for hopefully a less biased opinion.

So I went to the gun shop on Monday (and back again today) and held a few. I really wan't comfortable with any of the Glock's, so they're pretty much out. I liked the Springfield Armory XD40, but it wasn't completely comfortable for me, I didn't really like the hand safety on the back of the handle, it just didn't feel right. Then I kinda made a little bit of a mistake and looked at the Sigs........ It's kinda like going to a car dealership and driving a Ferrari and then going back to a "regular car." Except this time the Sig is within my reach vs. a Ferrari, which is unobtainable for me (right now anyway ). After I held a Sig p229 Equinox and a P220 (I think), nothing else was nearly as nice. I still liked the XD40, but it obviously doesn't seem nearly as nice as the Sigs.... The problem was the one I picked out was $1069 (ouch).... vs. the XD40 at $550. My problem is that I never like to settle for anything and I could feasibly spend a thousand bucks on a gun even though my wife thinks I'm insane for considering it. If I bought the XD, I'd always wish I'd bought the Sig and I'm sure if I buy the Sig, I still won't be satisfied.

So I come to the GTO forum asking these questions:
1. This is obviously my first handgun, so do I need a 9mm, 40, 45? Or could I start out with a Sig Mosquito (approx $325-400) and then work my way up to a 40 or 45? I keep coming back to the "stopping power" issue in my head.... If I'm gonna get one, it might as well be able to take somebody out if I need it to, right?
2. Should I still consider the XD40 or should I just go ahead and keep my eye on the Sigs?
3. I know you can buy guns from stores and people online and you have to send it to an FFA, but how common is this? I mean will the gun dealer be willing to do things like this? How much does it cost? I searched online, but most of the info just says "it's not complicated at all" and that's about it. The prices of guns online are a few hundred dollars cheaper in the case of these Sigs.
4. From what I understand, the Sigs have no safety other than the "de-cocker." How important is this? I will likely keep it in a safe in my closet and I have no kids right now, I just don't need a hole in my foot.

I do already own a 12 gauge, so please don't suggest that .

If i were you i would find a gun shop that carries the S&W MP, it has grip inserts that you can pick the one that feels best to you personaly. I think they are in the same price ballpark with the XD.

A friend of mine has a S&W40 and I love it! Here's a vid os me taking it for a "test drive".

a s&w 9mm does the job for me, but i bought my grandpa a s&w.38 special and he loves it, mainly because it was he carried when he worked for the corrections department

that "safety" on the back of the xd40 is the same type safety used on 911's now... its a good thing to have, esp. with the firing set up of the SA XD and like weapons. A little hand could reach out, pull the trig and the gun would discharge with out it...

have you considered a premium 1911? Kimbers, Brown, Wilson Combat, are assembled by gun smiths, quality control checks with every piece... where as "assembly line" guns don't get that.. and faults in manufacturing are a hassle to get fixed...

A) you can get a base sig for in the 700-800 range. You can buy a factory refurbished sig p220 (police turn in) for the same price as an XD

B) you live in a very gun unfriendly state so make sure you follow all the laws.

C) sig mosquito is a .22lr which is no good for self defense unless you stick it in the guys eye socket before you pull the trigger.

D) 9mm ammo is the cheapest .45 is a lot more expensive.

I own both a Sig p220 and a XD45 and I love both of them equally. I had the XD first though, I don't know how I would feel about it if i had the sig first.

Desert Eagle .50 /Thread

^^^ Scurvy brings up a good point here... if your primary use will be range...then 9mm will save you more moola.... but if self defense is the key...then no question, the .45. heck..9mm will glance off a slopped windshield! the stopping power of the .45 is a warm and fuzzy feeling.. even the .40 does not come that close to it... weigh your priorities.

hey Scurv..thought about you today, stopped at Gander Mountain in F-burg to pick up some gun cleaning patches and Breakfree.... they had a couple of nice Sig's in the case...some dude was shopping and I heard the sale's guy telling him how much better the Sig was than the HK.... LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by DDS... Desert Eagle .50 /Thread

overated. too heavy, hard to be accurate with, sloppy patterns.

if you cant hit what you shoot...the size of the bullet aint chit.

Quote: Originally Posted by wolfdogs... hey Scurv..thought about you today, stopped at Gander Mountain in F-burg to pick up some gun cleaning patches and Breakfree.... they had a couple of nice Sig's in the case...some dude was shopping and I heard the sale's guy telling him how much better the Sig was than the HK.... LOL

I like my USP and my Sig but If I had to choose I would take my 220 over my usp any day of the week.

I will probably sell my usp one day, I can't really see selling my 220. I bought the USP so I could say I owned one and because I've wanted to own a HK since I got into handguns. My sig on the other hand I own because it is a fine piece of craftsmanship and ergonomics. I like to think of the 220 as a Next-Gen 1911

i like a 1911.

anyone know anyone that makes a good stainless compact other than kimber?

Quote: Originally Posted by jonfor... i like a 1911. anyone know anyone that makes a good stainless compact other than kimber?

Springfield EMP

Quote: Originally Posted by jonfor... i like a 1911. anyone know anyone that makes a good stainless compact other than kimber?

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=24

Quote: Originally Posted by Scurvy... Springfield EMP

LOL..i was getting the link when you posted. gr8 minds think alike...

Quote: Originally Posted by bear... If i were you i would find a gun shop that carries the S&W MP, it has grip inserts that you can pick the one that feels best to you personaly. I think they are in the same price ballpark with the XD.

+1
S&W MP40c nice gun, sure there are nicer more expensive guns out there.

Quote: Originally Posted by bear... If i were you i would find a gun shop that carries the S&W MP, it has grip inserts that you can pick the one that feels best to you personaly. I think they are in the same price ballpark with the XD.

Thanks for the info. The shop I went to did have that gun but I don't even think I looked at it because I haven't heard much about the S&W's.

Quote: Originally Posted by GerminaTOr... A friend of mine has a S&W40 and I love it! Here's a vid os me taking it for a "test drive".

Great video, thanks. That gives me a good idea of the "kick" of a 40.

Quote: Originally Posted by The Big D... a s&w 9mm does the job for me, but i bought my grandpa a s&w.38 special and he loves it, mainly because it was he carried when he worked for the corrections department

Thanks.

Quote: Originally Posted by wolfdogs... that "safety" on the back of the xd40 is the same type safety used on 911's now... its a good thing to have, esp. with the firing set up of the SA XD and like weapons. A little hand could reach out, pull the trig and the gun would discharge with out it... have you considered a premium 1911? Kimbers, Brown, Wilson Combat, are assembled by gun smiths, quality control checks with every piece... where as "assembly line" guns don't get that.. and faults in manufacturing are a hassle to get fixed...

I know it is a good thing to have and I wasn't sure how much I liked the Sig not having it, but it just didn't feel right for some reason. Maybe it was just the feel of the grip that made me think that.

I haven't considered a 1911, I just don't really want one of those as my first handgun. It would be a great 3rd or 4th though.

The store I went to had Kimbers, but they were even more than the Sigs so I didn't even ask to see one, but man they were nice.

Quote: Originally Posted by Scurvy... A) you can get a base sig for in the 700-800 range. You can buy a factory refurbished sig p220 (police turn in) for the same price as an XD B) you live in a very gun unfriendly state so make sure you follow all the laws. C) sig mosquito is a .22lr which is no good for self defense unless you stick it in the guys eye socket before you pull the trigger. D) 9mm ammo is the cheapest .45 is a lot more expensive. I own both a Sig p220 and a XD45 and I love both of them equally. I had the XD first though, I don't know how I would feel about it if i had the sig first.

A) Have any links for that?

B) I know, smurfing stupid state.

C) Thanks, that is probably off the list. Might be a fun gun to play around with though.

D) I don't know that I care about that much, I mean if I shoot a couple hundred rounds a year, will I really save that much?

Thanks, that is interesting. It seems that many people have a Sig and an XD and seem to say they like each for different reasons.

Quote: Originally Posted by DDS... Desert Eagle .50 /Thread

Thanks for the suggestion, they had one of those in the case but I didn't think I needed the "hand cannon."

Quote: Originally Posted by wolfdogs... ^^^ Scurvy brings up a good point here... if your primary use will be range...then 9mm will save you more moola.... but if self defense is the key...then no question, the .45. heck..9mm will glance off a slopped windshield! the stopping power of the .45 is a warm and fuzzy feeling.. even the .40 does not come that close to it... weigh your priorities.

Is there really that much difference in the prices? What are we talking here? $50/box versus $5?

Very interesting about the 9mm and windshield. To your point about the Desert Eagle, wouldn't the same apply here? If I can't hit it, what good is big ammo? I'd like to be accurate with it otherwise there is no point. I'd like to know I can get >1 shot off and still remain relatively accurate.

Quote: Originally Posted by wolfdogs... overated. too heavy, hard to be accurate with, sloppy patterns. if you cant hit what you shoot...the size of the bullet aint chit.

i had a desert eagle and it is exactly like what you say, the only reason i bought it was because i bought it from a guy who was a bout to pawn it and i got a deal for 300 cash. then a dew years later sold it for 650 so i can' complain

Quote: Originally Posted by asaberan... Thanks for the info. The shop I went to did have that gun but I don't even think I looked at it because I haven't heard much about the S&W's. Great video, thanks. That gives me a good idea of the "kick" of a 40. Thanks. I know it is a good thing to have and I wasn't sure how much I liked the Sig not having it, but it just didn't feel right for some reason. Maybe it was just the feel of the grip that made me think that. I haven't considered a 1911, I just don't really want one of those as my first handgun. It would be a great 3rd or 4th though. The store I went to had Kimbers, but they were even more than the Sigs so I didn't even ask to see one, but man they were nice. A) Have any links for that? B) I know, fliping stupid state. C) Thanks, that is probably off the list. Might be a fun gun to play around with though. D) I don't know that I care about that much, I mean if I shoot a couple hundred rounds a year, will I really save that much? Thanks, that is interesting. It seems that many people have a Sig and an XD and seem to say they like each for different reasons. Thanks for the suggestion, they had one of those in the case but I didn't think I needed the "hand cannon." Is there really that much difference in the prices? What are we talking here? $50/box versus $5? Very interesting about the 9mm and windshield. To your point about the Desert Eagle, wouldn't the same apply here? If I can't hit it, what good is big ammo? I'd like to be accurate with it otherwise there is no point. I'd like to know I can get >1 shot off and still remain relatively accurate.

shooting takes practice... with any caliber from .380 to .45 and practice with a particular model handgun, you can become accurate, learn double tap. one of my 1911 .45's has a 3 inch barrel... when people see it, they say "how can you get off a second shot after the recoil.."?... the recoil is minimal for its size, and manufacturing is so fine tuned that I can make as good a pattern if not better with it than my SA XD .45 with a 4" barrel. you won't have a problem being accurate with a .45. stop and think about how many .45's have been placed in the hands of folks for combat.........

one thing to remember as well is: if you hit a charging assailant in the shoulder at 10 feet....with a 9mm...you may not get off a second shot..you will with a .45..it will knock most people backwards for a second....

Lets talk about calibers...
- 45ACP is the classic people stopper. Big slow bullet that generally expends all of its energy in the bad guy. Pretty easy to shoot since most 45s are at least moderately substantial handguns.
- 9MM became a popular alternative because you could pack a lot more bullets in a handgrip-sized magazine than a 45. Stopping power has been the biggest complaint, with folks saying you need all those extra bullets. Easy to shoot, & a 9MM can be designed smaller than the larger calibers.
- 40 cal is the popular in-between caliber, with stopping power approaching a 45, yet the magazine can hold more bullets. Ammo price is reasonable since it's a common bullet. Probably won't go wrong with this caliber.
- 10MM is essentially a "40 cal magnum", but it's not as popular as the others so ammo will cost a bit more. I don't have a 10MM but am intrigued by these (but I really don't need yet another caliber handgun).

Now let's talk about gun sizes.
- The mid size & large frame Glocks, Sigs, XDs, S&Ws, Rugers, etc are fine guns, marvelous tools, droolworthy, etc. BUT, they're substantial pieces & not what I consider easy to carry. They're fine for LEO or military who have to & are expected to carry, but they can be pretty cumbersome for casual civilian carry. No big deal if you don't intend to carry, they're fine in the house or car (provided that's legal), & great at the range.
- Small frames & subcompacts are much more carryable (sp?), but big calibers in little guns can be unpleasant to shoot. My current carryable piece is a Keltec P3AT 380 cal. It's sort of cheesy looking, mean to shoot, "girly" caliber, & not long range accurate, BUT, it disappears in a jean pocket with a pocket holster. Therefore I'm more inclined to casually carry it. Remember, the best gun in the world is no good if you don't have it when you need it.

If you're going to carry, stay legal.
OK that's my spin. Lets hear some other opinions.

Quote: Originally Posted by oodn-oodn... Lets talk about calibers... - 45ACP is the classic people stopper. Big slow bullet that generally expends all of its energy in the bad guy. Pretty easy to shoot since most 45s are at least moderately substantial handguns. - 9MM became a popular alternative because you could pack a lot more bullets in a handgrip-sized magazine than a 45. Stopping power has been the biggest complaint, with folks saying you need all those extra bullets. Easy to shoot, & a 9MM can be designed smaller than the larger calibers. - 40 cal is the popular in-between caliber, with stopping power approaching a 45, yet the magazine can hold more bullets. Ammo price is reasonable since it's a common bullet. Probably won't go wrong with this caliber. - 10MM is essentially a "40 cal magnum", but it's not as popular as the others so ammo will cost a bit more. I don't have a 10MM but am intrigued by these (but I really don't need yet another caliber handgun). Now let's talk about gun sizes. - The mid size & large frame Glocks, Sigs, XDs, S&Ws, Rugers, etc are fine guns, marvelous tools, droolworthy, etc. BUT, they're substantial pieces & not what I consider easy to carry. They're fine for LEO or military who have to & are expected to carry, but they can be pretty cumbersome for casual civilian carry. No big deal if you don't intend to carry, they're fine in the house or car (provided that's legal), & great at the range. - Small frames & subcompacts are much more carryable (sp?), but big calibers in little guns can be unpleasant to shoot. My current carryable piece is a Keltec P3AT 380 cal. It's sort of cheesy looking, mean to shoot, "girly" caliber, & not long range accurate, BUT, it disappears in a jean pocket with a pocket holster. Therefore I'm more inclined to casually carry it. Remember, the best gun in the world is no good if you don't have it when you need it. If you're going to carry, stay legal. OK that's my spin. Lets hear some other opinions.

my alternate carry ...and the most carried, is a sweet little Colt Mustang II.....Govt model slide. i cant take a nats butt off at 10 feet..... and i put a "knife pants clip" on it and can conceal it and go to a swimming pool

i think "carry" depends on what you need, where you are going and what you are doing....... the "environment" dictates the caliber to me.

Quote: Originally Posted by asaberan... A) Have any links for that? Is there really that much difference in the prices? What are we talking here? $50/box versus $5?

No links, I can only tell you what I paid for mine. 780 after tax. The refurbs are easy to get at the gun show for 575 + tax.

There is about a $5 a box difference between 9mm and .45

Doesn't sound like much but when you are shooting 200rds (4boxes) every time. That's 20 bucks a trip to the range. That's a nice dinner.

At minimum you're going to shoot 100rds per trip

Quote: Originally Posted by wolfdogs... shooting takes practice... with any caliber from .380 to .45 and practice with a particular model handgun, you can become accurate, learn double tap. one of my 1911 .45's has a 3 inch barrel... when people see it, they say "how can you get off a second shot after the recoil.."?... the recoil is minimal for its size, and manufacturing is so fine tuned that I can make as good a pattern if not better with it than my SA XD .45 with a 4" barrel. you won't have a problem being accurate with a .45. stop and think about how many .45's have been placed in the hands of folks for combat......... one thing to remember as well is: if you hit a charging assailant in the shoulder at 10 feet....with a 9mm...you may not get off a second shot..you will with a .45..it will knock most people backwards for a second....

Great info and a very interesting way to look at things.

I think the Kimbers are more than I'm willing to spend for my first gun. I believe there was one in the case that was $1399, quite a bit more than I want to spend. There was a smaller one as well that look similar to the one in your picture, and I believe it was around $900 if I am not mistaken. Which model is that picture of? I checked their site, but it said they have over 70 models and don't seem to show them. Also, do you buy them at a local store or online?

Quote: Originally Posted by oodn-oodn... Lets talk about calibers... - 45ACP is the classic people stopper. Big slow bullet that generally expends all of its energy in the bad guy. Pretty easy to shoot since most 45s are at least moderately substantial handguns. - 9MM became a popular alternative because you could pack a lot more bullets in a handgrip-sized magazine than a 45. Stopping power has been the biggest complaint, with folks saying you need all those extra bullets. Easy to shoot, & a 9MM can be designed smaller than the larger calibers. - 40 cal is the popular in-between caliber, with stopping power approaching a 45, yet the magazine can hold more bullets. Ammo price is reasonable since it's a common bullet. Probably won't go wrong with this caliber. - 10MM is essentially a "40 cal magnum", but it's not as popular as the others so ammo will cost a bit more. I don't have a 10MM but am intrigued by these (but I really don't need yet another caliber handgun). Now let's talk about gun sizes. - The mid size & large frame Glocks, Sigs, XDs, S&Ws, Rugers, etc are fine guns, marvelous tools, droolworthy, etc. BUT, they're substantial pieces & not what I consider easy to carry. They're fine for LEO or military who have to & are expected to carry, but they can be pretty cumbersome for casual civilian carry. No big deal if you don't intend to carry, they're fine in the house or car (provided that's legal), & great at the range. - Small frames & subcompacts are much more carryable (sp?), but big calibers in little guns can be unpleasant to shoot. My current carryable piece is a Keltec P3AT 380 cal. It's sort of cheesy looking, mean to shoot, "girly" caliber, & not long range accurate, BUT, it disappears in a jean pocket with a pocket holster. Therefore I'm more inclined to casually carry it. Remember, the best gun in the world is no good if you don't have it when you need it. If you're going to carry, stay legal. OK that's my spin. Lets hear some other opinions.

Great info, thanks.

Unfortunately my tree-hugger state doesn't allow me to carry, which is quite surprising given the amount of hunters and "good old boys" there are, at least in my area.

Quote: Originally Posted by wolfdogs... my alternate carry ...and the most carried, is a sweet little Colt Mustang II.....Govt model slide. i cant take a nats butt off at 10 feet..... and i put a "knife pants clip" on it and can conceal it and go to a swimming pool i think "carry" depends on what you need, where you are going and what you are doing....... the "environment" dictates the caliber to me.

A good holster I would say is MORE important than actual gun size when it comes to concealing. A good holster can conceal a medium/large frame very well and a shitty holster will print even t he smallest pistol.

Now you see it....



Now you don't...

Quote: Originally Posted by Scurvy... No links, I can only tell you what I paid for mine. 780 after tax. The refurbs are easy to get at the gun show for 575 + tax. There is about a $5 a box difference between 9mm and .45 Doesn't sound like much but when you are shooting 200rds (4boxes) every time. That's 20 bucks a trip to the range. That's a nice dinner. At minimum you're going to shoot 100rds per trip

Gotcha. You bought yours online or at a gunshow?

Should I buy a refurb? Seems to me like it would be best to buy a new one unless it was very seldomly used, but how would you know for sure?

Quote: Originally Posted by asaberan... Gotcha. You bought yours online or at a gunshow? Should I buy a refurb? Seems to me like it would be best to buy a new one unless it was very seldom used, but how would you know for sure?

I bought mine from a sig dealer here in Va.

The refurb/new thing is up to you. The refurbs don't have rails on them FYI and the refurbs are mainly sig P220s which are .45acp.

I'd rather have a factory refurb than a used.

"Unfortunately my tree-hugger state doesn't allow me to carry, which is quite surprising given the amount of hunters and "good old boys" there are, at least in my area."

Well if you can't carry then go for the showy accurate big bore. 45, 44 Mag, one of those monster 50 cals, or something like that. When I go shooting with my pals, the big bores always get the most attention, & they bust cement blocks & old motorcycles so much better than the weenie 40s & 357s.

Quote: Originally Posted by oodn-oodn... "Unfortunately my tree-hugger state doesn't allow me to carry, which is quite surprising given the amount of hunters and "good old boys" there are, at least in my area." Well if you can't carry then go for the showy accurate big bore. 45, 44 Mag, one of those monster 50 cals, or something like that. When I go shooting with my pals, the big bores always get the most attention, & they bust cement blocks & old motorcycles so much better than the weenie 40s & 357s.

in ga you can get a cwp fairly easy and you can still keep it in the car with you as long it it visable to a police officer

Quote: Originally Posted by The Big D... in ga you can get a cwp fairly easy and you can still keep it in the car with you as long it it visable to a police officer

Many years ago I got pulled over with a (legal) gun in my glove box. Mr officer asked for my licence & registration. That stuff's in the glove box of course. I told the officer there is a gun in the glove box, & he said "I didn't ask to see your gun, I want to see your licence and registration".

Kind of made me proud to be an American.

Since this is your first gun, and you seem to be a fairly novice shooter, I'd suggest a 9mm for the caliber.

Is .45ACP a great round? Sure is, but you may not enjoy the battery, or the cost associated with that caliber. At least not for your first gun. Every man should own a .45, no way around it... but you have plenty of time to work up to that.

So far you've done the right thing... put a lot of pistols in your hand and crossed some off your list. Glocks are great, but if it doesn't fit your paw, on to the next on the list. Good move.

I highly suggest putting an HK P30 in your hand. As it sits, it will most likely melt into your palm, but it does come with 3 sets of backstraps and 3 sets of side panels so you can totally custom fit it to your hand. Scary-accurate, and HK-reliable so you know you have one of the best.... as long as it fits you.

The XD's are pretty nice, I just bought an XD9 SC and like it. Is it in any way comparable to my HK's? No, but still darn nice. It hammers a bit more due to the size, which leads me to my next point...

Size does matter for a few reasons. Generally the smaller the gun, the less accurate it MIGHT be, and the more you will feel the recoil. Shoot a full size Glock 17, then a 26 and you'll see that even though they are identical except in size... the shooting is very, very different. The longer the slide, the longer the sight radius, therefore it has the potential to be more accurate.

I say "potential to be" because I have seen some ridiculously accurate subcompacts, and some grossly inaccurate full sized guns.

Conceal-ability is up to your holster and style of carry. Of course a 4" barrel may protrude from a short coat when bending over much more easily than a 2.75" barrel, but you get what I mean.

9mm is also far cheaper to shoot than the 40's and up. I like 40, but don't love it. It is a torquey round that twists the gun a bit as it shoots from a small barrel. It also hammers you a little bit while the 9mm is just a little snappy.

You'll see caliber wars raging on many forums, but the simple truth is that in the right load a 9mm can be devastating. If you want the best stopping power you'd be carrying a .357 Magnum revolver or a giant 10mm pistol, but those may not be practical and the 9mm does a fine job. Get the right round, and you're just fine.

Just fondle a few, rent some if you can, and just enjoy it. I suggest the HK P30 as the top, but the CZ75 is great for a comfy fit as well. I'm not a fan of the S&W M&P quality, but they are quite popular. I would NOT suggest a 1911 style gun to ANYONE who is a novice, or for a first gun.

Try Out A Sig Model #232, It Is A .380 , It`s My Personal Favorite For A Carry Piece. Hi Quality And Excellent Accuracy. They Make A Variety Of Ammo For It Also.
Second Favorite Is A Sig 245. Same Shooting Qualities As The 220 Model With A Shorter Grip. Very Easy To Conceal With A Lot Of Stopping Power.. Good Luck On Your Purchase, Their Are A Lot Of Deals Out There Right Now With The Ecomomy Sucking As Bad As It Does..
Dave P...