I just heard on the news that GM has submitted their plans for restructure to congress. Their plans include keeping Chevy, Cadillac, Buick, and Saturn. But they are going to kill Pontiac. Has anyone else heard this as well? This news just came out at lunch time today.
If anything... they should kill Buick and keep Pontiac. Buicks are too close to the same thing as Cadillac. Maybe not the looks but the options and price tags.
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I just heard on the news that GM has submitted their plans for restructure to congress. Their plans include keeping Chevy, Cadillac, Buick, and Saturn. But they are going to kill Pontiac. Has anyone else heard this as well? This news just came out at lunch time today.
If anything... they should kill Buick and keep Pontiac. Buicks are too close to the same thing as Cadillac. Maybe not the looks but the options and price tags.
That would suck. I wouldnt mind owning a G8 when I have a kid.
GM will focus on its "core brands" of Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac, the plan says. GM will sell Saab, shrink Pontiac to a niche brand and consider selling or closing Saturn, GM President Fritz Henderson told reporters at a briefing today.
If they did, that could be the dumbest thing that GM could do. Other than the Vette, Pontiac has the best/coolest cars out there. No granted I'm a little partial to Pontiac (hmmm wonder why...), but I'd say dump Buick too. All they are is a bunch of cars for Miss Daisy and Tiger Woods.
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GM will focus on its "core brands" of Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac, the plan says. GM will sell Saab, shrink Pontiac to a niche brand and consider selling or closing Saturn, GM President Fritz Henderson told reporters at a briefing today.
Well that article says that they will get rid of the G5, G6 and G8, and Soltice... so what is left?... nothing? Sounds like they are going to kill it to me. That's probably why the news said that they are killing Pontiac as well... because they are killing of all of their current models.. which leaves....?
Well that article says that they will get rid of the G5, G6 and G8, and Soltice... so what is left?... nothing? Sounds like they are going to kill it to me. That's probably why the news said that they are killing Pontiac as well... because they are killing of all of their current models.. which leaves....?
TA or GTO (Coupe 60)...if they turn the division back into a true performance niche like corvette to chevy, this is exactly what we are going to see and exactly what they are talking about. Killing off their current line-up is exactly what they HAVE to do if their goal is to make Pontiac offer only specialty niche performance vehicles (G8 GT only barely makes it into this catagory). Don't be surprised if in a couple years there are only 2 cars you can buy from Pontiac...those being the ones I just mentioned.
TA or GTO (Coupe 60)...if they turn the division back into a true performance niche like corvette to chevy, this is exactly what we are going to see and exactly what they are talking about. Killing off their current line-up is exactly what they HAVE to do if their goal is to make Pontiac offer only specialty niche performance vehicles (G8 GT only barely makes it into this catagory). Don't be surprised if in a couple years there are only 2 cars you can buy from Pontiac...those being the ones I just mentioned.
TA or GTO (Coupe 60)...if they turn the division back into a true performance niche like corvette to chevy, this is exactly what we are going to see and exactly what they are talking about. Killing off their current line-up is exactly what they HAVE to do if their goal is to make Pontiac offer only specialty niche performance vehicles (G8 GT only barely makes it into this catagory). Don't be surprised if in a couple years there are only 2 cars you can buy from Pontiac...those being the ones I just mentioned.
Pontiac will not survive with only 1 car to sell. And that 1 car isn't even in the works to be made. T/A? No plans on making one. GTO? No plans on making that one either. It took Chevy 50 years to make the decision to make a camaro again ( exaggeration )... and it still hasn't really hit the streets yet... how long will it take them to make a new T/A or GTO? Another 4 years or so?
Pontiac will not survive with only 1 car to sell. And that 1 car isn't even in the works to be made. T/A? No plans on making one. GTO? No plans on making that one either.
1 car, really? I clearly stated 2, but it could easily be, and more than likely will be 3.
You think GM is actually in the position to call out exactly what cars they have planned for Pontiac??? GM is just making a general plan to give to congress. Think about it though...if you're going to offer niche performance cars, what else are you going to offer for Pontiac?
1 car, really? I clearly stated 2, but it could easily be, and more than likely will be 3.
You think GM is actually in the position to call out exactly what cars they have planned for Pontiac??? GM is just making a general plan to give to congress. Think about it though...if you're going to offer niche performance cars, what else are you going to offer for Pontiac?
Look you don't have to get all sensitive about it bud. I love Pontiac as much as the next guy. However, if you look at reality, Why would they make two 2 door coupes with around the same power levels? What would be the point? They would need to make 1 2dr and 1 4dr not two coupes. That would make sense. But even at that... 2 cars in the whole line up more than likely will not save Pontiac.
Corvette is a true performance car with Chevy, but from what I hear they make extremely little on the corvette. They rely upon the sales of the other Chevy vehicles to make up for the price of the Corvette. The corvette is the flagship car for Chevy. You can't have 1 flagship car for Pontiac and no regular cars to make up for the little profit. It doesn't work.
Look you don't have to get all sensitive about it bud. I love Pontiac as much as the next guy. However, if you look at reality, Why would they make two 2 door coupes with around the same power levels? What would be the point? They would need to make 1 2dr and 1 4dr not two coupes. That would make sense. But even at that... 2 cars in the whole line up more than likely will not save Pontiac.
Can you see a 4dr GTO or 4dr T/A? I can't.
I'm not getting sensitive, I'm just stating your inaccuracies about what I said. Why would they make (2) 2-door coupes? Simple...it's the underlying meaning behind the concept of a niche performance car. I'm not trying to tell you what they are going to make, I'm simply inferring what they will make based upon the direction they are stating they want Pontiac to go...niche performance division.
I'm still not sure if you really understand what a niche division is all about. The basis is to cater towards the enthusiasts, which if Pontiac goes towards the direction of making only a couple models in limited numbers (and that's the business plan), then I don't understand how they won't succeed knowing the enthusiast following that Pontiac has had and continues to have to this day. If done right, it has all the signs of success.
Corvette is a true performance car with Chevy, but from what I hear they make extremely little on the corvette. They rely upon the sales of the other Chevy vehicles to make up for the price of the Corvette. The corvette is the flagship car for Chevy. You can't have 1 flagship car for Pontiac and no regular cars to make up for the little profit. It doesn't work.
You clearly make zero sense in the above post if you're trying to relate this to where GM wants to take Pontiac.
I'm not getting sensitive, I'm just stating your inaccuracies about what I said. Why would they make (2) 2-door coupes? Simple...it's the underlying meaning behind the concept of a niche performance car. I'm not trying to tell you what they are going to make, I'm simply inferring what they will make based upon the direction they are stating they want Pontiac to go...niche performance division.
I'm still not sure if you really understand what a niche division is all about. The basis is to cater towards the enthusiasts, which if Pontiac goes towards the direction of making only a couple models in limited numbers (and that's the business plan), then I don't understand how they won't succeed knowing the enthusiast following that Pontiac has had and continues to have to this day. If done right, it has all the signs of success.
I understand where you are coming from and it would be great if the world worked that way. A car company to make 1 or 2 cars and it would be a best seller and all of the car enthuesists would love it and praise it. But if they make a limited supply of 10K units a year, that will not pay for much at all unless the price of the cars go through the roof.
Wow.. you are dense... i'm done. You don't understand economics or business.
No, you don't understand that comparing apples (chevy which is the backbone of GM and relies on volume of sales) to oranges (pontiac which under their new plan would make limited production, niche performance vehicles only, at an understandably higher price) makes no sense. Run along little boy.
The good thing folks is that right now, this is all speculation on the part of GM. Since our goverment can give all it wants to the banks without the banks giving no promise of what it will do with the money, they are demanding proof of what changes will occur should they even get a loan. The Goverment wants to see big changes in the way they operate. As of this afternoon the Top Kicks at both GM and Ford stated that they would run the companies for a salary of $1.00 a year. It is going to take more than that for them to get any loan. The goverment will almost demand a shrinkage of dealerships and brands. What does this mean for Pontiac, no one clearly knows yet as no decision has been made. If Pontiac goes away, it means that the 43 years that my dad and several years that sisters and a brother worked at the "Plant" was for nothing. (I was born and rasied in Pontiac).
But we must all agree that if GM does survive, models and brands will almost certianly have to go away (Hummer, Saab, and Saturn are the first 3 to go, Pontiac is listed as the 4th and I personally think that the cut will not go this deep) and dealerships and factories will close, which will hurt cities and towns all over the U.S. You can even expect some cities to go under as a result of the dependance on the auto industry. It is quite sad when you think of how much Gm, Ford, and Chrylser have helped this country over the past 100 years. Now, they are treated like second class citizens to a bunch of banks.
No, you don't understand that comparing apples (chevy which is the backbone of GM and relies on volume of sales) to oranges (pontiac which under their new plan would make limited production, niche performance vehicles only, at an understandably higher price) makes no sense. Run along little boy.
Let me ask you one more question then genius.... Are you going to buy a Base Corvette for $45K or an inflated priced ( because of production numbers ) T/A or GTO for $80K?
I'm not sure why Henderson would make the claim that Pontiac would remain in any form, much less as a performance brand. The two most recent "performance" cars, the GTO and G8 were sales flops for Pontiac. The AU plant that builds G8s is going idle, and there's a huge backload of unsold G8s, which is one of GM's worst-selling products.
Chevy has performance cars that are already successful (Vette) and on track to be successful (Camaro).
Pontiac dealers need a range of cars to sell to justify their franchise. Can't have a "dealership" with one or two models to sell, and you can't create a niche performance brand from a line that has no popular performance cars to begin with. It's like saying Pontiac will become a niche producer of airplanes and motorcycles. They don't have either of those now either.
Pontiac has outlived its usefulness as a stand-alone brand. Unless they plan on creating some Pontiac performance cars from dead scratch and selling them at Chevy dealers, there's no business case for keeping Pontiac alive.
Frankly, I think there's more to be consolidated. GMC can be entirely supplanted by its truck and SUV twins over at Chevy. Buick can be folded into Cadillac. Rebadge Caddys as Buicks in China if that's where the Buick market is...it sure as hell isn't here in the U.S. They don't need two "luxury" brands.
Saturn should go, but its Opel-derived small car would be a welcome ad to Chevy's line. Their mid-sized sedan is already duplicated in the Malibu. I've stated here before that GM needs to look to the Asian brands for structure: One mainstream bread-and-butter line...Toyota, Nissan, Honda... and one luxury brand...Lexus, Infinity, Acura. They save billions by not having redundant models, redundant plants and distribution structures, redundant brand marketing and multiple dealer networks selling versions of the same stuff.
Chevrolet and Cadillac. That's all they need. Bag the rest.
Some of you guys are seriously in denial. For 1, China + Buick = $$$$. Secondly, Pontiac doesnt sell right now. Third, who cares if the G8 has a Pontiac badge on it or if its a chevy like it is in the middle east? Less cost, streamlining the major franchise dealerships, lower marketing cost, etc.
I would rather be able to buy a Chevy instead of a Pontiac if the alternative was no GM at all. I would like to see Corvette and Camaro live on than a few slow brands bring the entire ship down. Not trying to be pessimistic, just realistic.
As much as I love Pontiac (My first car was a 66 Catalina) GM is smart to keep Buick alive. Buicks are selling like nobody's business in China. Owning a Buick is a big status symbol over there. They won't ignore what is potentially the world's biggest automotive market. We always complain that countries we import from don't buy our stuff. Well, China is buying lots of Buicks. Chevrolet can easily wear the performance badge for GM. Pontiacs aren't selling that well. Money talks and bullshit walks.
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