Need help -- clutch failure

Gents,

I need some help/guidance from the expertise here on the forum. Not sure what course of action I should take, so let me explain the background on the clutch upgrade.

I bought a Monster stage 2 from Steve because of the ls1gto.com forums last Christmas. He was running a special on the premium upgrade kit--clutch, pressure plate, slave, and bearing for $700. At the same time, I ordered one of the heat-wrapped stainless braided lines through East Texas Muscle cars. I didn't have the clutch installed until May 09 because of a busy schedule. The shop that installed it was Precision Motorsports in Tampa, FL. I live 7 hours away and took the car to them because of a standing reputation.

I want to be clear that the craftsmanship of the parts is not in question here.

After install, the clutch pedal was really stiff but engaged properly. However, after a couple of weeks, a strange sound started occuring on start up of the vehicle. It was a "scratching" sound right on start-up. I took the car to a shop lift on base and had my wife start it while I was safely under to confirm that the sound was coming from the transmission area. I have tried to contact Precision to ask about that sound but they are ignoring me. I don't know the circumstances there, but I am stating the facts.

Also, in July the clutch engagement, after limited use, started getting really annoying. From a stop and in first gear, I would let out on the pedal to get the vehicle moving. No matter what I tried with the pedal--slipping, letting out fast, letting out with no gas input, etc--the car shutters or bucks pretty badly. Again, I didn't have help with diagnosing because the shop has been ignoring me. Since late June, we pretty much stopped driving the car except to keep the gas fresh and parts moving. I dropped the ball and should have diagnosed the problem then and there.

I'm in the military and my wife is deep in medical school so we are busy. Yesterday, the weather was nice and we took the goat for a drive. Except for that first gear shuttering/bucking, which had decreased, and a lighter pedal engagement, the car felt great in the cold air. Almost home, I goosed it in first gear on a back road because my wife wanted me to see that the tires have not been sticking on moderate acceleration. I thought if they are loose with my wife, who does not drive the car hard, then something might honestly be wrong. The car was her daily driver before the clutch install. As I shift out of first and into second, the car suddenly bucks (like a sudden loss of power) and we hear a nasty grinding-mechanical sound from under the car. The clutch pedal sticks momentarily but gets really soft after I put the car in neutral. When I try to get the car in third gear still coasting, it's really tough and we manage to slowly limp home. We made it home and had to stop before we put it in a parking spot. After managing to forcefully put it in first gear, the car moved forward slowly with a grinding sound and an almost immediate burning-clutch smell.

I am pretty sure that it is not the clutch, but maybe a peripheral part like the slave cylinder or throw-out bearing (correct name?). If it is the clutch, then I believe it to be a poor installation. I would really appreciate some help with diagnosing so I know which parts to pre-order. I think the current issues are related to the earlier symptoms that I described ( I.e., problems with first gear engagement and weird sounds from the transmission area).

I know that I should probably go ahead and purchase a new slave and bearing but what else do you guys think I should get. I have also sent an email to Monster since they are experts with GTO clutch systems. If I could do it all over, I would either have just driven from Florida to Texas to have it installed or done it myself (I am capable but don't really have the time). As the saying goes though...if you want something done right, do it yourself.

Apologize for the long post, but I appreciate any help you guys can offer. I'm really bummed out about this because I spent good money to have it done right the first time. I have a garage and could technically pull the tranny but what if the problem is beyond a normal removal/installation. We don't abuse the car and are going to keep it for years to come. Honestly, who would beat the crap out of a car they rely on?

Regards,
Joe

To be clear, does it grind or make any noises when going into first? (with the clutch to the floor)

It is really hard to push the shifter into gear when the pedal is on the floor. If I force the shifter into gear, there are no noises but now that you ask I am going to confirm. What I do know is that once the tranny is in gear and I let the clutch pedal out, it makes a grinding noise and smells really bad. I hope that explanation helps.

I will go confirm any noises with the clutch pedal down and the shifter in gear.

Thanks for your reply!

Okay, I have more data for anyone willing to help.

When I just sit in the car not running and push the clutch pedal in, there is a popping sound coming from the tranny. Also, the pedal is really light and I can feel a notchiness in the pedal as I push it down.

There is still fluid in the resevoir under the hood and there isn't a puddle of fluid under the car.

Once I start the car with the tranny in neutral, there is a constant growling/scratching sound coming from the tranny. If I push the clutch pedal in, there is a mechanical clunking sound.

Any guesses? I spoke with a couple of my Dad's drag-racing buddies and they are saying that the pressure plate might have failed.

Thanks for the help.

Quote: Originally Posted by SHS... Once I start the car with the tranny in neutral, there is a constant growling/scratching sound coming from the tranny.

when you push the clutch pedal in, does this sound go away?

This is something you need to pull the tranny down and look at to be sure. It sounds like a pressure plate problem, but it is not certain when trying to diagnose over the internet. In any case, the symptoms you describe are not normal for a new clutch and it should be looked into before you drive it more. It is hard on internal transmission parts when you forcefully put it into gear.

Quote: Originally Posted by quadman... when you push the clutch pedal in, does this sound go away?

No, the sound gets louder and I can feel a notchiness in the pedal (normally the pedal should feel smooth all the way through operation).

Quote: Originally Posted by EricBlueGTO... This is something you need to pull the tranny down and look at to be sure. It sounds like a pressure plate problem, but it is not certain when trying to diagnose over the internet. In any case, the symptoms you describe are not normal for a new clutch and it should be looked into before you drive it more. It is hard on internal transmission parts when you forcefully put it into gear.

Understood, I am minimizing the number of times I have to force the shifter in gear. Right now, I have only pushed the shifter completely in to move the car into the parking spot.

I hope to hear back from Steve at Monster. Before I can repair anything I need to have 1) time off, 2) some sort of diagnosis, and 3) parts to replace broken stuff. At least, ideally that is what I would like have. I still haven't decided whether I'm taking it to a shop or whether I should repair it myself.

Thanks again for your replies.

just do it yourself simply because you know whats going into it, you said you took it to a lift on base what base? where?

I have used Eglin's shop and a coast guard shop in Mobile, AL. The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards doing it myself. However, Uhaul is being stupid and saying that I can't rent a trailor from them. I have a 2003 4WD 4Runner with a 7500 lb rated hitch that according to them can't pull a GTO, so go figure. Also, according to them a 1500 series Silverado and F150 can't either. I need a 2500 series and F250 or bigger.

Anyway, looking forward to talking with the Monster clutch guys in the AM.

Yea i'm on seymour johnson, was going to ofer some help, but thats a little far for me to drive. We just had to new crew chiefs come in from Eglin if you know anyone in maintenance.

I would gladly take your help too. I'm a test engineer so I don't really know any maintenance troops.

Got the car to a local shop that I heard about. The guys there seem to know what they are doing and most importantly, they are a professional shop. Steve at Monster was helpful and has suggested a way-ahead to get this resolved.

So the technician pulled the tranny and took a look at the clutch assembly. He is saying that the friction disc disintegrated--the material came apart in chunks. Steve at Monster has been helpful and suggested that most likely there was a foreign contamination from three possible sources: assembly lube on the pressure plate to keep it from rusting (suggesting poor installation), rear main seal leak, or slave cylinder leak. The technician said the slave is leaking, which is good and bad news. I mention this to provide a lessons learned to anyone thinking of doing their own install.

Pictures are being taken so I hope to have those in my possession soon. I just hope to have my car back soon!

the slave was provided with the clutch correct?

Well thats good new to know what it is and it sucks that it will cost more money to fix, but at least you know the problem now.

Yup slave came with the Premium package I purchased. Still not 100% sure that the leaking slave spit on the friction disc--of course this whole process will be cheaper for me if it turns out that way.

It will be nice to have the car back. This fix is eating away at my plans to upgrade the rear half-shafts and stubs...boo!

Sorry to hear about the car troubles. If I still lived in Destin I could help you pull the transmission. It's really not that bad but it sounds like time is the issue. You could pull that transmission in about 2 or 3 hrs if you never did it before. I can pull mine and put it back in in 3hrs.

Nevermind I didn't read the last couple of posts. The slave must have been leaking a lot! Hope it works out for you!

So, confirmed that the slave was the culprit. Should be getting new parts and the car back on the road! Still need to get the pictures from the mechanic.