If you are concerned about the cost of fuel sell the GTO and get a more economical vehicle, like a vw m6 jetta with the diesel. Hello 50mpg all day long.
I use to maintain Schwans frozen foods fleet of vehicles. They all were propane powered. I was certified technician on their own system called Bi-Phase. I would convert all my vehicles today if not for one thing, supply. If you run out of fuel you just cant walk to a gas station and get a couple gallons of fuel. Propane fueling stations are not marked or advertised very well.
Its a dedicated system, not duel fuel. It works using the vehicles computer but reprogrammed. This system injects liquid propane in the same ports as gasoline is injected. This has several advantages. When propane turns from a liquid to a gas it cools. This lowers intake and combustion chamber temperatures. Another thing is propane has an octain level of 110 meaning your getting better than racing fuel octain.
Not necessarily. If they are built right you have no problems. We use to weld the rotators on the valve spring caps. Thats the piece that lets the valves rotate to keep the seats clean of carbon. they're not needed on a propane engine. You also need sodium filled valves. Then you will have no problems with the cylinder heads. With the bi-phase system nothing was done to the engines and we seen over 150,000 miles on those engines with no problems.
On the bi-phase system they used a propane fuel tank fitted with what they called a Liquid Propane Delivery Module or LPDM. It basically was a Corvette in tank fuel pump mounted inside the propane tank with a filter. It pumped the liquid propane fuel through the module head where pressure and return systems were controlled. The fuel lines were a large outside line with a smaller line inside of that. Fuel would return to the tank on the outside section and pressurized fuel traveled inside the inner tube. One thing they had to do was to get the system to purge before starting or it would vapor lock. They did this buy activating the pump for 20 seconds when the drivers door was opened.
Its under pressure but its not steady. The more fuel you use the less pressure in the tank. By using a conventional fuel pump they keep around 60psi pressure at the fuel injectors. This is the difference between the old systems that were vapor systems. They used a vaporizer, fuel lock and a carburetor. Before this system I was trained on the Impco system.
theoretically, wouldn't it be better to utilize propane injection in the gas form? It most likely would reduce all emissions across the board and burn way cleaner and more thoroughly right?
No not really at least that is what California thinks. We have several forklifts and they have an emission system on them to control pollution. Yes believe it or not propane powered Forklifts with an O2 sensor,Catalytic converter,Fuel control valve and a small controller computer.
Hmmm, what are we talking about price wise? And can Thisbe used in conjunction with gasoline, like both at the same time or switching between for highway mileage. I don't want to go full retard, I mean propane.
And can't you heat the bottle like nitrous to keep the proper steady pressure? I've just been reading about this today so I don't know very much.
There are some duel fuel systems out there but I have never seen one that works as good as a dedicated system. The highest cost is the tank on the by-phase system. I think the entire system cost around $5000.
I also read that a liquid system acts like a small FI by gving you 2-3 psi of boost changing from liquid to gas.
I'm pretty good at making stupid shit work, I'm wondering if I could make my own system for less than that. I was thinking maybe a secondary gas system, set up exacty like the regular gas one to switch between. What kind of injectors do you need?
The fuel injectors and lines need to be able to take 120psig at 70 degrees. Below that propane will turns to vapor. The fuel pump boosts that to 60 psi above that. I am not a Physicists but the way I was trained is to think of the system as if the earth was either -44 degrees, the temp that propane turns to a liquid or having at atmospheric pressure of 120, also propane is a liquid. Then you can think of the system like it was a gasoline system.
It sounds like you would get better gas mileage on a propane system. The fact it burns at 15.7 would net better mileage because it is running leaner. Where as ethanol and other fuels at 9.7 ratio waste 30% more fuel then standard gasoline.
The fuel injectors and lines need to be able to take 120psig at 70 degrees. Below that propane will turns to vapor. The fuel pump boosts that to 60 psi above that. I am not a Physicists but the way I was trained is to think of the system as if the earth was either -44 degrees, the temp that propane turns to a liquid or having at atmospheric pressure of 120, also propane is a liquid. Then you can think of the system like it was a gasoline system.
Propane runs 110-130 octane typically and as stated previously the phase change drops intake temperatures. Propane converted engines can run VERY high boost levels with no trouble as long as the engine components can take the stress.
Propane fueled engines get worse gas mileage than a gasoline fueled engine of equal output because propane has less energy per gallon than gasoline. There is no way around this. Bonus is that Propane costs much less per gallon. Will you ever recover the cost of doing the conversion? You will have to do your own math.
I worked with propane fueled tractors and farm trucks an a daily basis for years in my younger days and they never gave a lick of trouble.
Propane fueled engines get worse gas mileage than a gasoline fueled engine of equal output because propane has less energy per gallon than gasoline. There is no way around this. Bonus is that Propane costs much less per gallon. Will you ever recover the cost of doing the conversion? You will have to do your own math.
Diesel has less output than gas too, but they get great mileage. Putting propane on an 8:1 compression engine the gas will get better mileage but thats because it isn't optimized for propane that is 110 octane. Bump up the compression and run more spark to a point where gas would knock and propane will shine. now on a stock GTO engine I agree it will drop MPG but its like half the cost of premium.
That doesn't really look like a kit that would help car owners though, Im guessing forklifts don't come with a closed loop system and catalytic converter? For a car what you need from what I have been reading is injectors, tank, and fuel pump for the main system then some sensors and tuning.
Anyone know where to get the high pressure injectors?
I'd think two 20lb tanks would fit nicely where the existing tank is. You should be able to warm the tanks if needed, and I don't get the naysaying in this thread about blowing up your motor, that's just ignorance of internal combustion and proper tuning.
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