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Old 11-23-2012, 09:01 PM   #1
Slow Ride
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Finally got this thing on..

After installing the wrong rotation blower a few weeks ago, I found the blower I needed and got it installed. Jeremy Formato sent me a preliminary tune just to get me running. I don't want to drive too aggressively with the car without being able to scan it. But at half throttle in 2nd gear (a4), it feels a lot stronger than before the blower. My only issue right now is with initial tip-in at idle and accel from a stop. If I stab the throttle in park, it will stumble a bit before revving normally. If I accelerate slowly and increase the revs, it is smooth like it should be. It's possible that the car needs to be properly tuned (which won't be until Dec. when Formato heads back down here) or an issue with the routing of my vacuum lines. Can I get some help with how I routed the lines?
Also important to note, the BOV isn't opening and I can hear the pressure coming out through the impeller blades. I bought this Tial BOV used, so I'll attribute that to incorrect spring pressure.

BOV



T from booster



From oil cap


To blower inlet


Driver side TB


To evap solenoid


From passenger side TB to a check valve then to crankcase


From evap solenoid


To a metal line along the firewall


Engine bay


Does this look correct?


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Last edited by Slow Ride; 11-23-2012 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 11-25-2012, 02:23 AM   #2
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The car MUST be tuned properly for any modifications. And lets face it, fitting a supercharger is a huge change.

IMO you shouldnt even be trying to put the foot down at all until it is tuned.

BOV should be open at idle. All it needs is a suitable vac/boost source from the intake manifold.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:33 AM   #3
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The foot is not going down-at all. I bought this latest rebuilt blower from eBay and need to be sure that it is indeed doing what it should. I drive the car very cautiously. I had it scanned yesterday w hptuners. The tune is decent but rich. I think the bov line may be in the wrong area. Can someone confirm?


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Old 11-25-2012, 07:58 AM   #4
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What do you mean by wrong area ? All it needs is a suitable vac/boost source from the intake manifold
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Old 11-25-2012, 01:49 PM   #5
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Stevie- I mean is it ok where I connected it? I put a T connector coming off of the brake booster. Should I instead run it to a T coming off the check valve from the manifold and passenger side of the TB?


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Old 11-25-2012, 01:56 PM   #6
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Provided the BOV is connected to a clear free port on the intake manifold then yes it is ok.

Ive no idea what you have, as I cannot see it. The pictures are a little vague and I have no idea of you have any other valves or blockages in any pipework.

There should absolutely NOT be any check valves or any form of restriction in the line to the BOV.
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Old 11-25-2012, 02:52 PM   #7
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Right now, the line going from the passenger side of the manifold to the motor has a check valve between them as per vortech's instructions. Is there somewhere else I can tap into from the manifold?
Thanks for the help.

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Old 11-26-2012, 07:05 AM   #8
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why not call Vortech and ask them for an installation guide??

I would not be running that thing at idle let alone trying to figure out the BOV situation untill you confirmed correct installation.
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Old 11-26-2012, 07:27 AM   #9
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Vortech '04 GTO install manual.
http://www.superchargersonline.com/i...h/4GJ218im.pdf
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:43 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b727pic...View Post
why not call Vortech and ask them for an installation guide??

I would not be running that thing at idle let alone trying to figure out the BOV situation untill you confirmed correct installation.

Vortech believes the spring in the BOV is too stiff. And no, cruising is fine with it as long as I stay out of boost. According to vortech.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow Ride...View Post
Vortech believes the spring in the BOV is too stiff. And no, cruising is fine with it as long as I stay out of boost. According to vortech.

Most centri installs utilize a surge / bypass valve. So I am not familiar with your reasoning behind a BOV? I have seen a few video's of those installs, the chirping would drive me nuts!! but then again I am an old dude, and it doesn't take much to drive me nuts.

Is Vortech going to standby their "cruising is ok" statement when its determined that all is not ok with the tune? All I am suggesting is that you are very judicious in how you run the car. If you don't have an AFR gauge, I wouldn't run it at all. If you do have an AFR gauge pay close attention, too rich and you can wash down the cyl walls causing much grief in the very near future. Too lean and worse things can happen............

Last edited by b727pic; 11-26-2012 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b727pic...View Post
Most centri installs utilize a surge / bypass valve. So I am not familiar with your reasoning behind a BOV? I have seen a few video's of those installs, the chirping would drive me nuts!! but then again I am an old dude, and it doesn't take much to drive me nuts.

Is Vortech going to standby their "cruising is ok" statement when its determined that all is not ok with the tune? All I am suggesting is that you are very judicious in how you run the car. If you don't have an AFR gauge, I wouldn't run it at all. If you do have an AFR gauge pay close attention, too rich and you can wash down the cyl walls causing much grief in the very near future. Too lean and worse things can happen............

Thanks for the reply bud-
Let me first state the obvious- I'm by no means an expert. I have some decent knowledge of how things work and some solid shade tree experience...then again that's why I post on a forum
Having said that, I think the difference between the two is that the bpv is recirculated pre-maf whereas the BOV is vented to the atmosphere. Since I am using an SD tune, it's okay to vent out the boost to the atmosphere. Vortech told me that the BOV was okay to use and that east coast supercharging uses the Tial bovs on their kits. They suggested the spring is too stiff. As long as the bov is open at idle and when the TB snaps shut, im getting the desired effect(someone correct me if im wrong). I did this install myself using the instructions included for the air/water after cooled kit for the 04. I decided to go air/air instead with an eBay inter cooler. For the most part, the instructions pertained to my install. There is just this remaining issue to resolve.


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Old 11-26-2012, 05:18 PM   #13
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I'll go ahead and disconnect the belt until Formato can make it down.


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Old 11-27-2012, 06:41 AM   #14
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I ordered the correct spring today. Tial uses the green 3 psi spring for supercharged applications.
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:55 PM   #15
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Did you put that spring in?? Any difference?
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:55 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by posenheimer...View Post
Did you put that spring in?? Any difference?

I did put the spring in. Upon opening me BOV, I found a small tear in the diaphragm. I put everything back together, and I can hear the air leaking out. A buddy of mine has a Tial BOV and is going to loan me his until my replacement diaphragm comes. We will meet tomorrow to scan/tune and install the temporary BOV.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:24 AM   #17
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The unit will never work correctly with a torn diaphragm.

It will neither open when it needs to, nor will it seal boost properly. Although that will also depend on spring pressure inside.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevieturbo...View Post
The unit will never work correctly with a torn diaphragm.

It will neither open when it needs to, nor will it seal boost properly. Although that will also depend on spring pressure inside.

Agreed. I'm looking forward to getting all the quirks ironed out and seeing what FI really feels like..
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:32 PM   #19
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I installed my friends BOV and it works perfectly, open at idle and closed under load. We scanned and drove the car more aggressively today. Commanded AFR is 11.8 and LTFTs lock in at -6. So it is a little rich. O2's are in the mid 900's at WOT and 0 KR. The car feels very strong. We were both surprised at how good it felt and ran with this tune. What was even more encouraging was the commanded timing was 5.5* at WOT. So there is a lot of power to be had still.
Edit- max boost was 8 lbs.

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Old 12-01-2012, 10:57 PM   #20
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Congrats on your new found power, isnt it great ?

5.5 at WOT ? That is too low. Wont that cause your engine gas temps to be too high ? I think mine is around 15-18 degrees at WOT.
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:11 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlively11...View Post
Congrats on your new found power, isnt it great ?

5.5 at WOT ? That is too low. Wont that cause your engine gas temps to be too high ? I think mine is around 15-18 degrees at WOT.

It is great Dave- thanks. Having it turn out well gives a nice sense of accomplishment because most of this kit was a custom install...to have it all come together is rewarding. The 5* timing is very low. I sent the logs to Jeremy this morning. If he foresees a problem, he'll make some changes accordingly until he can dyno tune it. Meanwhile, I will continue to drive it cautiously.
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