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Old 11-26-2012, 11:26 PM   #1
dlively11
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Small Cam ... can I tune it myself ?

Was thinking about maybe installing the LS9 cam (super cheap and supposed to be super smooth with decent gains for a blower cam). What kind of changes would need to be made to the tune for it to run well ? I have HP tuner but have never tuned for a cam before. Local shops around here really rape you. The most respected local shop wants $3000 for Cam, install and tune ridicules IMO. Seen other reputable shops in TX for instance only charge $1500 total for everything including tune. Was thinking if I could tackle the tune myself it would save a lot of money and might be able to pull this off for around $1K.
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:24 AM   #2
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sup old cat?
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:09 AM   #3
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Do your research on the tuning beforehand. There are a lot of great write-ups out there that show you step-by-step how to approach it. There are also numerous tunes in the repository that may be of use where a car with similar mods has been tuned and you can use portions of their tune if you get stuck. That'd be one of the easier cams to learn with!
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:12 AM   #4
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That cam would most likely idle fine on your stock tune. I installed a 226/230 cam last year and it idled and drove on the stock tune. Just do the basics of getting the maf/ve dialed in and maybe add some base airflow and a little bit of timing in the idle cells and call it good. That is all most tuners would do with that cam anyway.

If you have hptuners, there is no reason to ever go to a tuner again. Just learn to do it yourself.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:23 AM   #5
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I don't know. Can you? Can you read and learn? Can you experiment and document what you are doing? Can you spend hours and hours reading random posts on the hptuners forums about how stuff actually works? Can you change just one thing at a time in the tune and see what the results are in reality? You need to have the patience of a laboratory researcher. You need to read everything and trust nothing. After a while, you might actually start to pick it up.

Given some of the stupid shit I've seen you post, I doubt it. But that's not an insult, that's a challenge. Prove me wrong, padowan.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:25 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel Chicken...View Post
I don't know. Can you? Can you read and learn? Can you experiment and document what you are doing? Can you spend hours and hours reading random posts on the hptuners forums about how stuff actually works? Can you change just one thing at a time in the tune and see what the results are in reality? You need to have the patience of a laboratory researcher. You need to read everything and trust nothing. After a while, you might actually start to pick it up.

Given some of the stupid shit I've seen you post, I doubt it. But that's not an insult, that's a challenge. Prove me wrong, padowan.

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Old 11-27-2012, 07:54 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel Chicken...View Post
Given some of the stupid shit I've seen you post, I doubt it. But that's not an insult, that's a challenge. Prove me wrong, padowan.

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Old 11-27-2012, 09:11 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel Chicken...View Post
I don't know. Can you? Can you read and learn? Can you experiment and document what you are doing? Can you spend hours and hours reading random posts on the hptuners forums about how stuff actually works? Can you change just one thing at a time in the tune and see what the results are in reality? You need to have the patience of a laboratory researcher. You need to read everything and trust nothing. After a while, you might actually start to pick it up.

Given some of the stupid shit I've seen you post, I doubt it. But that's not an insult, that's a challenge. Prove me wrong, padowan.

Post of the year.

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Old 11-27-2012, 09:39 AM   #9
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Do you have an AFR gauge?
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:41 AM   #10
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OP has a maggie, which could make this interesting.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:53 AM   #11
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I would nominate Steel for post of the year if he could spell padawan correctly

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Old 11-27-2012, 11:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel Chicken...View Post
I don't know. Can you? Can you read and learn? Can you experiment and document what you are doing? Can you spend hours and hours reading random posts on the hptuners forums about how stuff actually works? Can you change just one thing at a time in the tune and see what the results are in reality? You need to have the patience of a laboratory researcher. You need to read everything and trust nothing. After a while, you might actually start to pick it up.

Given some of the stupid shit I've seen you post, I doubt it. But that's not an insult, that's a challenge. Prove me wrong, padowan.

LOL, wow ....... Of course that was meant as an insult .. well mostly anyway. A little butt hurt I am guessing about a recent reply I posted in response to some "Stupid shit" you posted ? Sorry for calling you out on it. you seem to be a fairly respected member of the community try acting a little more like it .


Anyway, yes I have a brain that functions and can is capable of doing all of the above. I have some tuning experience with my old GP which I put a turbo on. I used Power Tuner. A lot of the stuff is familiar. I already tuned and understand what I tuned for my tranny and stall I have. Car runs much much better now and is as smooth as can be. Thanks to Coolaid for his helpful advice on that.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:38 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mchicia1...View Post
That cam would most likely idle fine on your stock tune. I installed a 226/230 cam last year and it idled and drove on the stock tune. Just do the basics of getting the maf/ve dialed in and maybe add some base airflow and a little bit of timing in the idle cells and call it good. That is all most tuners would do with that cam anyway.

If you have hptuners, there is no reason to ever go to a tuner again. Just learn to do it yourself.

Thanks for the helpful response. That is what I was thinking too. Everyone goes on and and about how smooth it is and like stock. Still supposed to be good for about 30 WHP with a blower. FYI to others who may not now the LS9 is a blower cam for the ZR1 so its a perfect fit.

I have also talked to Ed Curtis for a custom cam. Told him I needed a mild one that will pass smog and idle smooth too. Said I wanted no less then 30 WHP from it as well. Would most likely go that route honestly.

So is the consensus that yes I could install the cam and do some mild changes to tune to make it run well ? Would it be pretty easy to at least make the tune safe right away and fine tune it over time ?

I do have a decent amount of boost wit the 2.6 pulley. I get no KR and it is a conservative tune done by a very reputable tuner. If it is half as easy as a few of you have stated I would be totally down for tuning it myself. I just want to be safe and not blow shit up of course

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Old 11-27-2012, 11:54 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by dlively11...View Post
LOL, wow ....... Of course that was meant as an insult .. well mostly anyway.

No it wasn't. I say stupid shit all the time. So does Doric, KTG and other very competent members of the community I have great respect for.

Quote:
A little butt hurt I am guessing about a recent reply I posted in response to some "Stupid shit" you posted ? Sorry for calling you out on it. you seem to be a fairly respected member of the community try acting a little more like it .

I have no idea what you are talking about. Also, I don't give a shit what people think about me, unless they are personal friends.

Quote:
Anyway, yes I have a brain that functions and can is capable of doing all of the above. I have some tuning experience with my old GP which I put a turbo on. I used Power Tuner. A lot of the stuff is familiar. I already tuned and understand what I tuned for my tranny and stall I have. Car runs much much better now and is as smooth as can be. Thanks to Coolaid for his helpful advice on that.

So why the hell are you asking stupid questions like "can I tune it?"

I don't know- can you tune it?
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:57 AM   #15
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I don't think he wanted to literally know if he could tune it or not based on our responses.

Sounds like he just wanted a difficulty scale for a newb tuner. That cam is not large and wouldn't take much to get it running smoothly just like any negative overlap cam. I would be more concerned with making sure the WOT fueling is correct after the swap. If no wideband, I say bring it to a trustworthy tuner. Good luck
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:59 AM   #16
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Maybe, I don't understand why he says half shit he does. Probably my fault.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:13 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Steel Chicken...View Post
No it wasn't. I say stupid shit all the time. So does Doric, KTG and other very competent members of the community I have great respect for.


I have no idea what you are talking about. Also, I don't give a shit what people think about me, unless they are personal friends.


So why the hell are you asking stupid questions like "can I tune it?"

I don't know- can you tune it?

LOL, fair enough.

I am trying to gauge the level of tuning competence required to make this kind of cam safe to drive. I am trying to ascertain whether or not I should attempt to tune it myself without a pro tuner to save some $$.

Seemed pretty smurfing obvious what I was asking and why
Sure sounds like the pot calling the kettle black as far as "asking stupid questions" goes If you dont want to help me fine but I am sure others out there would like to know as well. Asked a legitimate question and I got nothing constructive from you at all, just noise.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:17 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by mchicia1...View Post
I don't think he wanted to literally know if he could tune it or not based on our responses.

Sounds like he just wanted a difficulty scale for a newb tuner. That cam is not large and wouldn't take much to get it running smoothly just like any negative overlap cam. I would be more concerned with making sure the WOT fueling is correct after the swap. If no wideband, I say bring it to a trustworthy tuner. Good luck

Ahh a real response is sure nice to hear

No wide band here. Wonder if I could perhaps get a deal on WOT tuning only. Maybe get the idle and low/mid end tuned myself then get the WOT tuned for less $$. Or what about using parts of other peoples tunes with similar setups as a base and fine tune from there as someone else mentioned ?
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:22 PM   #19
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It's a stupid question because you are asking other people to use a crystal ball and figure out what your tuning skill level is and somehow tell you whether or not you are competent enough to do something. Only you can know this. However, based on your posts (the only information I have about your skill level), I'd say you are not competent enough to do it. Now don't tell me this "not constructive" because I answered your question, even if it hurt your e-feelers.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:23 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by dlively11...View Post
Ahh a real response is sure nice to hear

No wide band here. Wonder if I could perhaps get a deal on WOT tuning only. Maybe get the idle and low/mid end tuned myself then get the WOT tuned for less $$. Or what about using parts of other peoples tunes with similar setups as a base and fine tune from there as someone else mentioned ?

If you don't have a wide band, don't mess with the tune. And I don't know that there is a shop out there that will do WOT and not plan on re-doing the entire tune. Would leave to many variables unanswered, and if something went wrong, would leave them exposed to complaints/ridicule for a tune that wasn't fully their responsibility.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:29 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by dlively11...View Post
Ahh a real response is sure nice to hear

No wide band here. Wonder if I could perhaps get a deal on WOT tuning only. Maybe get the idle and low/mid end tuned myself then get the WOT tuned for less $$. Or what about using parts of other peoples tunes with similar setups as a base and fine tune from there as someone else mentioned ?

If you find a local shop, NewTech, Synergy that will do a WOT tune only after a cam swap let me know so I can go smack Nick or Rick.

I've even had to have a re-tune going with a bigger TB so a Cam swap with a blower is playing with fire.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:30 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by camarochevy1970...View Post
If you don't have a wide band, don't mess with the tune. And I don't know that there is a shop out there that will do WOT and not plan on re-doing the entire tune. Would leave to many variables unanswered, and if something went wrong, would leave them exposed to complaints/ridicule for a tune that wasn't fully their responsibility.

+1.

Instead of shelling out the money for this cam and a shop to tune it, do yourself a favor and pick up a wideband for $100-200 and practice data logging with it with your scanner for a while. Hell, you may find that your current tune is way off and even dangerously lean.

Most of the widebands are easy to interface into hptuners. Pickup an actual digitial gauge as well so you can verify what you see in hptuners is what you see on the gauge itself.

Hptuners forum is a great resource and can get you up to speed.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:08 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Steel Chicken...View Post
It's a stupid question because you are asking other people to use a crystal ball and figure out what your tuning skill level is and somehow tell you whether or not you are competent enough to do something. Only you can know this. However, based on your posts (the only information I have about your skill level), I'd say you are not competent enough to do it. Now don't tell me this "not constructive" because I answered your question, even if it hurt your e-feelers.


My point was and still is that you contributed NOTHING constructive to this thread. I was trying to gauge what was required to properly tune a cam like this. Was a very valid question and you just barge in with insults and BS My feelings arent hurt in the least I just see you very clearly for what you are now. Someone who knows a a lot about something and acts like an arrogant, rude child half the time because you didnt get enough attention as a kid Didnt anyone teach you if you dont have anything nice to say ...... guess you got the meaning of that lesson backwards
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:11 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ddawson...View Post
If you find a local shop, NewTech, Synergy that will do a WOT tune only after a cam swap let me know so I can go smack Nick or Rick.

I've even had to have a re-tune going with a bigger TB so a Cam swap with a blower is playing with fire.


Thank you , that is what I needed to know. Rick wants almost $600 even prior to cam just for a retune. So even with a small cam like this its not worth messing with unless you have a lot more experience with tuning and access to wide band. Thank you sir for the direct answer to my question.

I dont even mess with HPT anymore since I got my tranny issues tuned out and a few other things tweaked. Maybe I should just sell it to cover the tune Can always buy one again if I feel the need. Presently my tune seems very good. No KR with the 2.6 pulley, gets good MPG, tranny is tuned great. I might hang on to it to fine tune their tune with lots of logging I doubt they will do then sell it.

Now how hard was that Steel ?

Thanks to all the grownups who bothered to help myself and others out there.

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Old 11-27-2012, 01:15 PM   #25
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$600 for a retune. Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:17 PM   #26
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My point was and still is that you contributed NOTHING constructive to this thread. I was trying to gauge what was required to properly tune a cam like this. Was a very valid question and you just barge in with insults and BS My feelings arent hurt in the least I just see you very clearly for what you are now. Someone who knows a a lot about something and acts like an arrogant, rude child half the time because you didnt get enough attention as a kid Didnt anyone teach you if you dont have anything nice to say ...... guess you got the meaning of that lesson backwards

Well, he kind of called it on your ability. Anyone who is even partially competent at tuning would know that you really need a wideband.

And you're the one who is acting butthurt.

Just sayin.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:21 PM   #27
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But that's not an insult, that's a challenge. Prove me wrong, padowan.

doesnt seem mean spirited.

Sheesh man.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:46 PM   #28
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You definitely should get a wideband on a boosted car, even if you don't tune it yourself. With a supercharger, you want to know ASAP if something goes wrong. If someone else tunes it for you, you still want to know what AFRs it's running, and if the weather affects it or whatever.

So get a wideband and then you can try to tune myself. If it turns out you can't figure it out, you can always go back to the shop. The car will run and be driveable at low throttle with that cam before the retune.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:49 PM   #29
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Agree x million.

You need a wideband on a boosted car.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:53 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mchicia1...View Post
$600 for a retune. Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

No shop is going to touch another shops tune. Too many variables there.

Once tuned though any changes or touch ups are by the hour. Corrections/issues of course are free.
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