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Old 01-02-2013, 02:28 PM   #1
Shift_GRIND
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Car won't start after trying to jump start it.

I haven't started my GTO in a few weeks, so when I went to start it it just barely turned over and wouldn't start. I through a battery booster on it, let it sit a minute and it would crank and almost start, but not actually start.


So I let it sit on charge for a few hours and now it turns over fine but wont start. Most of the time I don't hear the fuel pump prime, but I do sometimes.

In addition its throwing a code p0335 and p1632 for a crankshaft position sensor and a theft detterant code.

Any idea on how to fix this or what's going on?
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:39 PM   #2
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you can start basic and unplug the battery and connect it again and give it another go, but if your crank sensor really is bad, you'll have some work on your hands. I would try and rule out spark and fuel first since they're easier to check though
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:43 PM   #3
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Would the crank sensor cause a theft detterant issue though? Or is that a code that pops up when you try to start it but can't.

The theft detterant is definitely kicking in. I only hear the fuel pump prime if I go to start it after not trying to start it for 5 minutes. I did have an old key fob laying around, it doesn't work either. Both keys can unlock the car though.
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:00 PM   #4
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Make sure the metal nub on the fob is making contact with the ring.

If your crank position sensor is shot, the motor will not start because the PCM has no idea where the crank is in its cycle for timing.

It sounds like you have two separate issues, so I would look at fixing the crank position sensor and try firing her up again. Hell, it is even possible that the computer automatically defaults to the theft deterrent shut-off if it receives no signal from the crank position sensor to save the motor from flooding out, and it just throws out that code whenever the fuel is cut-off.
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:04 PM   #5
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Tried 2 keys so I don't think it's the metal nub thing. I thought some people have driven their car with the crank sensor unplugged. I could pick one up tomorrow, they look easy enough to change.
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:09 PM   #6
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You know, since the fuel pump is not priming, it's definitely not the crank position sensor. It's a theft detterant issue of some sort.
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift_GRIND...View Post
I haven't started my GTO in a few weeks, so when I went to start it it just barely turned over and wouldn't start. I through a battery booster on it, let it sit a minute and it would crank and almost start, but not actually start.


So I let it sit on charge for a few hours and now it turns over fine but wont start. Most of the time I don't hear the fuel pump prime, but I do sometimes.

In addition its throwing a code p0335 and p1632 for a crankshaft position sensor and a theft detterant code.

Any idea on how to fix this or what's going on?

I'm attaching the flow chart for this DTC (and all it's buddies.) I've seen this half-dozen times when a battery is low and vehicle is cranked. One of the module's theft data got scrambled. Had an 06 last week that went into theft mode after the PCM was reprogrammed (not replaced).

With that being said, one of the three modules involved in the VTD dance is not happy. Best way to find out whom is with a Tech 2, since you need to communicate with all three (ECM, PIM, BCM). You may also need the 4 digit security code that was on the owners card (which no one has) or find a buddy at a GM dealer that can get it from their keycode DB.

Good luck.
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File Type: pdf P1632.pdf (96.3 KB, 263 views)
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:31 PM   #8
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fwiw.....My fbody wouldn't start and figured the battery went dead. All the lights and everything in the car worked but it wouldnt turn over. Got a friend of mine to try and jump me still nothing. I don't recall if it was turning over or not with the jumper cables. It's been over 10 years since that happened. Fiddled around with it for a bit and came up with nothing. Turned out the battery had a bad cell which was enough to turn power on but not to crank and not to allow it to be jumped. Installed the new battery and it started right up.

As with anything always start with the simplest part.......in this case the battery.
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baugustine...View Post
I'm attaching the flow chart for this DTC (and all it's buddies.) I've seen this half-dozen times when a battery is low and vehicle is cranked. One of the module's theft data got scrambled. Had an 06 last week that went into theft mode after the PCM was reprogrammed (not replaced).

With that being said, one of the three modules involved in the VTD dance is not happy. Best way to find out whom is with a Tech 2, since you need to communicate with all three (ECM, PIM, BCM). You may also need the 4 digit security code that was on the owners card (which no one has) or find a buddy at a GM dealer that can get it from their keycode DB.

Good luck.



That sounds more like the issue. I do recall seeing a canbus error pop up as well, if that explains anything.

Do I need a tech II to diagnose or fix this? I have a friend with a snap-on solous pro (spelling?)...He wasn't sure if it would do what I needed.

Last edited by Shift_GRIND; 01-02-2013 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:16 PM   #10
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Probably best to disreguard the theft code from the sound of it...They will flag when battery voltage drops below a certain point, along with other weird body codes alot of the time, which sounds like your case. If it was a security problem the engine shouldn't crank. You might be flooded. Try actuating the gas pedal up and down while cranking and see if the engine trys to fire. If it does try to fire, keep cranking, applying, and unapplying in such a way to get it to do it again, until it starts. If its not flooded chase after the crankshaft position code. Check your power and ground to the sensor with a dvom with ignition on. Make sure you don't have anything obvious like a mouse nest in the engine bay somewhere or something. Look for broken wires ect if thats the case. May need a crank sensor but check it out first before you spend the money. Might be a good idea to replace the battery too, depending on how new it is. they don't like to sit.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:28 PM   #11
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No, it's a seems much more like a theft code. The first time I try to start it after a while it will prime for a few seconds then shut the pump off. The fuel pump won't even prime after that for a while, no matter how many key ons and offs you do. Crank position sensor would not cause that, nore would flooding it.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift_GRIND...View Post
That sounds more like the issue. I do recall seeing a canbus error pop up as well, if that explains anything.

Do I need a tech II to diagnose or fix this? I have a friend with a snap-on solous pro (spelling?)...He wasn't sure if it would do what I needed.


Try clearing DTCs first. SOLUS may or may not get into PIM. There are Special Function Tests in the Tech2 that allow linking between modules. Doubt the SOLUS supports that either.

Definitely fully charge the battery. I ended up buying a Battery Tender for mine, just to keep it up in the weeks it sits. These ECUs don't power up/down correctly when voltage drops below 10v DC.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:44 PM   #13
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Check your PCM fuse. I had a jump once and some idiot crossed the cables. Blew the fuse and it wouldn't do anything. Hope its something simple like that in your case.

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Old 01-02-2013, 05:45 PM   #14
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10amp charger has been on it all day, It's got a pretty good charge on it now. I guess I'll leave it on 2amp all winter when I get this taken care of.

Just did a Full write with HPTuners and disabled vats 1 and vats 2 as well as relinking vats and clearing the code, made no difference. Not sure if those commands work anyways since HPTuners hasn't worked for doing a case learn in the past, sometimes it's more buggy then anything else.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift_GRIND...View Post
10amp charger has been on it all day, It's got a pretty good charge on it now. I guess I'll leave it on 2amp all winter when I get this taken care of.

Just did a Full write with HPTuners and disabled vats 1 and vats 2 as well as relinking vats and clearing the code, made no difference. Not sure if those commands work anyways since HPTuners hasn't worked for doing a case learn in the past, sometimes it's more buggy then anything else.

2 amps will cook the battery if you leave in on for extended periods. The Battery Tenders are either 750 mA or 1.25 A and have some smart circuitry to shut off and trickle when the battery is fully charged. I own both. The Junior was only $25 from Jegs, and they make an optional OBD2 cable to plug it in at the DLC and not need to open the hood (an extra $15).
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:03 PM   #16
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I am sort of hesitant to post such an obvious suggestion, but in all of these starting attempts with a half dead battery and then a booster and other such shenanigans....Have you tried putting a new battery in it? or at least disconnecting your current one and letting the computer reset? It doesnt appear from your posts that you have tried this yet.
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:36 PM   #17
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Wondered that too, seen a lot of post about computer grimlins due to batteries
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:46 PM   #18
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still love the banana with the chainsaw...
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File Type: pdf P0335.pdf (35.9 KB, 80 views)
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift_GRIND...View Post
No, it's a seems much more like a theft code. The first time I try to start it after a while it will prime for a few seconds then shut the pump off. The fuel pump won't even prime after that for a while, no matter how many key ons and offs you do. Crank position sensor would not cause that, nore would flooding it.

doesnt the fuel pump only prime when enough pressure has leaked out of the rails to warrant it? I dont think it will prime every time. I may be wrong though
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:23 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by HunterKiller89...View Post
doesnt the fuel pump only prime when enough pressure has leaked out of the rails to warrant it? I dont think it will prime every time. I may be wrong though

I believe you're right.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:25 PM   #21
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I thought it primed everytime, but I have never had an issue with starting the car before so I don't know, I just assumed it did. The Vats / theft codes are not coming back after I resynched or whatever with HPTuners, only the p0335 now. Looks like I'll be tearing into that tomorrow.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:46 PM   #22
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Unlock the car with the keys unlock button not the key itself.. Disconnect battery and fully charge this will reset the ecu. Then reconnect and start. The ecu will detect the car is unlocked and not trigger the anti theft when it is powered back on. Hopefully its that simple.

Check fuses in engine bay and in car.

Good luck.
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:42 AM   #23
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Pump should only prime when pressure is low ie first key turn. Also if you continue to try to start and fear that you may have flooded it in the process, fully depress and hold the fuel peddal and then crank motor for 5-10 seconds. Release ignition and release peddal. This process is a feature I read about in the owners manual (go figure) It shuts off fuel injectors and just cranks motor to expell excess fuel. Has come in handy for me a time or two. I would recommend doing it every now and then as you continue to work threw your problem. Keeps from washing everything down.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:14 AM   #24
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bad batteries do strange things to cars... I'd definitely check to make sure you didn't have a bad cell first. How old is the battery? Have you had it tested?
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:02 PM   #25
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i am experiencing the exact same starting issue.

GM MDI did not help us any, we're currently running the tech2, crank sensor is good..
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:00 PM   #26
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DTC P0335
Circuit Description
The crankshaft position (CKP) sensor signal indicates the crankshaft speed and position. The CKP sensor circuits are connected directly to the engine control module (ECM) and consists of the following circuits:

• The 12-volt reference circuit

• The low reference circuit

• The CKP sensor signal circuit

If the ECM detects that there is no signal from the CKP sensor for 3 seconds, DTC P0335 sets.

DTC Descriptor
This diagnostic procedure supports the following DTC:

DTC P0335 Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor Circuit

Conditions for Running the DTC
• DTCs P0101, P0102, P0103, P0341, P0342, or P0343 are not set.

• The camshaft position (CMP) sensor signal is incrementing.

• The mass air flow (MAF) is more than 5 g/s.

• The engine is cranking or running.

• DTC P0335 runs continuously when the above conditions are met.

Conditions for Setting the DTC
The ECM detects that there is no signal from the CKP sensor for 3 seconds.

Action Taken When the DTC Sets
The control module illuminates the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) on the second consecutive ignition cycle that the diagnostic runs and fails.
The control module records the operating conditions at the time the diagnostic fails. The first time the diagnostic fails, the control module stores this information in the Failure Records. If the diagnostic reports a failure on the second consecutive ignition cycle, the control module records the operating conditions at the time of the failure. The control module writes the operating conditions to the Freeze Frame and updates the Failure Records.
Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC
• The control module turns OFF the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) after 3 consecutive ignition cycles that the diagnostic runs and does not fail.

• A current DTC, Last Test Failed, clears when the diagnostic runs and passes.

• A history DTC clears after 40 consecutive warm-up cycles, if no failures are reported by this or any other emission related diagnostic.

• Clear the MIL and the DTC with a scan tool.

Diagnostic Aids
Will set with the ignition switch in the Start position if the starter monitor is inoperative, or the starter motor control circuit is inoperative. When the ECM enables starter motor operation, the ECM also initiates the diagnostic test routines for DTCs P0335 and P0340. If a condition exists which prevents the engine from cranking, the ECM will not receive a signal input from the CKP and the camshaft position (CMP) sensors.

Test Description
The numbers below refer to the step numbers on the diagnostic table.

This step determines if the fault is present.

This step simulates a CKP sensor signal to the ECM. If the ECM receives the signal, the fuel pump will operate for about 2 seconds.

Step
Action
Values
Yes
No

Schematic Reference: Engine Controls Schematics

Connector End View Reference: Engine Control Module (ECM) Connector End Views or Engine Controls Connector End Views

1
Did you perform the Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle?
--
Go to Step 2
Go to Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle

2
Attempt to start the engine.

Does the engine start and continue to run?
--
Go to Step 3
Go to Step 4

3
Observe the Freeze Frame/Failure Records for this DTC.
Turn OFF the ignition for 30 seconds.
Start the engine.
Operate the vehicle within the conditions for Running the DTC. You may also operate the vehicle within the conditions that you observed from the Freeze Frame/Failure Records.
Did the DTC fail this ignition?
--
Go to Step 4
Go to Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections

4
Raise the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle .
Disconnect the crankshaft position (CKP) sensor connector.
Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.
Measure the voltage from the 12-volt reference circuit of the CKP sensor to a good ground with a DMM. Refer to Troubleshooting with a Digital Multimeter .
Does the voltage measure above the specified value?
11.5 V
Go to Step 5
Go to Step 7

5
Measure the voltage between the 12-volt reference circuit of the CKP sensor and the low reference circuit of the CKP sensor with a DMM.

Does the voltage measure above the specified value?
11.5 V
Go to Step 6
Go to Step 8

6
Momentarily connect a test lamp between the CKP sensor signal circuit and the 12-volt reference of the CKP sensor.

Does the fuel pump operate when the test lamp is applied to the CKP sensor signal circuit?
--
Go to Step 10
Go to Step 9

7
Test the 12-volt reference circuit for the following conditions:

• An open

• A short to ground

• High resistance

Refer to Circuit Testing and Wiring Repairs .

Did you find and correct condition?
--
Go to Step 16
Go to Step 12

8
Test the low reference circuit for the following conditions:

• An open

• A short to voltage

• High Resistance

Refer to Circuit Testing and Wiring Repairs .

Did you find and correct the condition?
--
Go to Step 16
Go to Step 12

9
Test the CKP sensor signal circuit for the following conditions:

• An open

• A short to ground

• A short to voltage

• High resistance

Refer to Circuit Testing and Wiring Repairs

Did you find and correct the condition?
--
Go to Step 16
Go to Step 12

10
Remove the CKP sensor. Refer to Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor Replacement .
Visually inspect the CKP sensor for the following conditions:
- Physical damage

- Loose or improper installation

- Wiring routed too closely to the secondary ignition components

The following conditions may cause this DTC to set:
- Excessive air gap between the CKP sensor and the reluctor wheel

- The CKP sensor coming in contact with the reluctor wheel

- Foreign material passing between the CKP sensor and the reluctor wheel

Did you find and correct the condition?
--
Go to Step 16
Go to Step 11

11
Visually inspect the CKP sensor reluctor wheel for the following conditions:

• Loose or improper installation

• Physical damage

• Excessive end play or looseness

Refer to Crankshaft and Bearings Cleaning and Inspection .

Did you find and correct the condition?
--
Go to Step 16
Go to Step 14

12
Test for poor connections at the CKP sensor. Refer to Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections and Wiring Repairs .

Did you find and correct the condition?
--
Go to Step 16
Go to Step 13

13
Test for poor connections at the engine control module (ECM). Refer to Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections and Wiring Repairs .

Did you find and correct the condition?
--
Go to Step 16
Go to Step 15

14
Replace the CKP sensor. Refer to Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor Replacement .

Did you complete the replacement?
--
Go to Step 16
--

15
Replace the ECM. Refer to Control Module References for replacement, setup, and programming.

Did you complete the replacement?
--
Go to Step 16
--

16
Clear the DTCs with a scan tool.
Turn OFF the ignition for 30 seconds.
Start the engine.
Operate the vehicle within the Conditions for Running the DTC. You may also operate the vehicle within the conditions that you observed from the Freeze Frame/Failure Records.
Did the DTC fail this ignition?
--
Go to Step 2
Go to Step 17

17
Observe the Capture Info with a scan tool.

Are there any DTCs that have not been diagnosed?
--
Go to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List - Vehicle
System OK



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Document ID# 1665056
2006 Pontiac GTO
Attached Images
File Type: gif 05ckp.gif (30.8 KB, 37 views)
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:17 PM   #27
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For what its worth, the car will start with a bad camshaft sensor, but it may take some time. The reason being is that the car is trying to figure out when to fire the spark. It has two choices as the crank rotates twice for per rotation of the camshaft. So one of the choices is wrong. Once it realizes it, it will switch to the opposite. So if you can't get it started after trying for lets say 15 seconds... its likely something to do with the actual timing.

The other culprit could be that the timing chain has jumped a tooth or so. I would doubt its worse, like being broken chain, because if that happened you'd probably know from the absolute carnage going on in your engine from valves being smashed around. I'd surmise that if the timing was off far enough, you could have trouble starting it.

To get to the camshaft position sensor (get a new one from GM by, the auto store guys sell the absolute wrong fitment - I know because I tried) you need to remove the water pump (LS2 GTO only). Its a fairly easy job to do.

With HP Tuners you can also log the cam counts. If you see that number steadily increasing - you know its not the sensor itself that it must be some issue with the actual timing. If it stays the same, or near the same while the car is running... thats when you know the sensor is dead.

Last edited by andrewzpsu; 01-04-2013 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:00 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Shift_GRIND...View Post
10amp charger has been on it all day, It's got a pretty good charge on it now. I guess I'll leave it on 2amp all winter when I get this taken care of.

Get a Battery Tender.
Other regular chargers will cook the battery if not used correctly, have the battery tested to see if it is even any good to begin with.

The codes are something different, the first thing I thought of was a mouse ate some of your wiring harness. If the car sat for a while they might try to make a home in there.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:08 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by andrewzpsu...View Post
For what its worth, the car will start with a bad camshaft sensor, but it may take some time. The reason being is that the car is trying to figure out when to fire the spark. It has two choices as the crank rotates twice for per rotation of the camshaft. So one of the choices is wrong. Once it realizes it, it will switch to the opposite. So if you can't get it started after trying for lets say 15 seconds... its likely something to do with the actual timing.

The other culprit could be that the timing chain has jumped a tooth or so. I would doubt its worse, like being broken chain, because if that happened you'd probably know from the absolute carnage going on in your engine from valves being smashed around. I'd surmise that if the timing was off far enough, you could have trouble starting it.

To get to the crank shaft position sensor (get a new one from GM by, the auto store guys sell the absolute wrong fitment - I know because I tried) you need to remove the water pump (LS2 GTO only). Its a fairly easy job to do.

With HP Tuners you can also log the cam counts. If you see that number steadily increasing - you know its not the sensor itself that it must be some issue with the actual timing. If it stays the same, or near the same while the car is running... thats when you know the sensor is dead.

You are confusing the crankshaft and camshaft position sensors. The crankshaft position sensor is on the rear side of the block above the starter. The camshaft position sensor is located on the timing cover behind the water pump on Gen IV+. On the Gen III, it is located on the back of the block.
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:55 PM   #30
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Ahhh I always goof up when typing crank/cam. I thought I had my post straight LOL.
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